Herons eating fish
Lynne
believe that herons are protected, there are deterrents that can be bought
and a dog in the yard would probably help.
I love the wildlife that I have here in my yard but the heron is not one of
them. I live in a really rural area and I can shoot here and nobody would
notice and the coyotes would love a heron dinner. My bothersome heron is
gone, I think it must have been shot (not by me). It made the rounds of the
area ponds and ate every last fish.
If I had an intruder in my house I would shoot?, my pond is an extension of
my family and I feel I have a right to protect it.
Larry Fortson <CBF...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:829lho$ane$1...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net...
> Help! I have a heron eating my fish. I live in Georgia and this is the
first
> time I have seen this bird in our area. It is about 4 or 5 feet tall and I
> want it out of here. Any suggestion on getting rid of it. I understand it
is
> on the protected animal list and is illegal to kill.
>
>
daytripper
[snip]
> I love the wildlife that I have here in my yard but the heron is not one of
>them. I live in a really rural area and I can shoot here and nobody would
>notice and the coyotes would love a heron dinner. My bothersome heron is
>gone, I think it must have been shot (not by me). It made the rounds of the
>area ponds and ate every last fish.
>
>If I had an intruder in my house I would shoot?, my pond is an extension of
>my family and I feel I have a right to protect it.
I can't believe that a sentient being posted this.
"I love the wildlife"? Yeah, right...
/daytripper
jrj...@my-deja.com
> I can't believe that a sentient being posted this.
>
> "I love the wildlife"? Yeah, right...
>
> /daytripper
>
Daytripper,
Loving wildlife does not necessarily mean allowing it complete freedom
to spoil or destroy. I "love" wildlife; my backyard is certified a
wildlife refuge by the National Wildlife Federation, BUT, I do not allow
voles, shrews, field mice, rats, squirrels, bats, etc. ad nauseum, ad
infinitum to have the run of my house. I am sure that there are
"wildlife enthusiasts" who do, but I strongly suspect their sentience.
Most ponders "love" wildlife, or they would not participate in the
activity, which by it's nature involves much to do with nature. As a
general rule, I also suspect that anyone who has a $1,000 koi would be
perfectly willing to protect it from being killed or maimed by predatory
animals. The operative concept is that of intelligent choice. Should
you own such a fish and had you watched as a heron punched a hole in
it's head you just <I>might</I> begin to understand what I am saying.
Johns
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
daytripper
[snip]
>Most ponders "love" wildlife, or they would not participate in the
>activity, which by it's nature involves much to do with nature.
No, not really. What most ponders "love" is entirely "artificial" - there's
nothing "natural" about your activity.
You deliver the reason why, right here:
>As a general rule, I also suspect that anyone who has a $1,000 koi would be
>perfectly willing to protect it from being killed or maimed by predatory
>animals.
Plastic, store bought fish are now "wildlife"?
"I don't think so, Tim."
You build a pond (artificial) where none existed, and fill it with plastic
fish that (a) are clearly not native to your area, and (b) are hardly
"natural".
Yet ponders grouse (<= pun) when a real, *natural* animal - one that wasn't
bred in captivity; one of a species that predates your existence, never mind
the existence of your pond; one of a species that BELONGS where you find it;
and your first thought is you wish you could kill it.
Nice.
I'm not trying to beat ponders over the head with this, but it's not "nature"
that you love. It's $1000 plastic fish.
At least be honest with yourself and deal with it.
/daytripper
~ Windsong ~
daytripper <day_t...@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote in message >
I'm not trying to beat ponders over the head with this, but it's not
"nature"
> that you love. It's $1000 plastic fish.
It's not quite as painful when the koi are the $1.99 ones from Petsmart or
the $15.00 ones from the local fish store. Financially painful that is.
The emotional pain and loss is another matter... :o(
--
Carol....the Frugal Ponder in zone 6 TN....
}<(((((o> ~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~ }<{{{{o>
THEBESI
white, it may keep the Heron away. Someone also mentioned one of those big
ugly baloons that look like an eye. If these don't work, shoot the SOB.
K30a
Rec.ponders don't recommend shooting, rearranging the feathers of or verbally
abusing herons.
The resulting jail sentence and fine leaves the pond unmanaged, the plants
unfertilized and yellowing and the fish resorting to eating string algae, lily
buds and aquatic insects.
k30 and the water gardening labradors
REC.PONDS INFORMAL FAQ PAGE
http://hometown.aol.com/k30a/myhomepage/writing.html
http://hometown.aol.com/k30a/myhomepage/index.html
Derek Broughton
>
> Yet ponders grouse (<= pun) when a real, *natural* animal - one
that wasn't
> bred in captivity; one of a species that predates your
existence, never mind
> the existence of your pond; one of a species that BELONGS where
you find it;
> and your first thought is you wish you could kill it.
> I'm not trying to beat ponders over the head with this, but
it's not "nature"
> that you love. It's $1000 plastic fish.
Wherever did you get that idea? Very few of us have $1000 fish -
and what's with this ridiculous 'plastic' business?
I like wildlife. I also like my pond. Which is filled (or at
least was, until the heron) with $1 worth of fish. I know I
still have a few comets in there. I expect I have a few koi. I
also know that I have at least two huge Green Frog tads. I used
to get all sorts of wonderful things coming to the pond, but the
heron is just too large an imbalance. The non-native fish are
not, it's true, natural but they have far less impact on the
balance of the pond than a heron.
I could fill the pond with native fish - but I don't know about
where you are, but it's illegal here, unless I buy fingerling
game fish - which would never survive in a 5000 g pond and would
again be way out of balance.
--
Derek (www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond)
rec.ponds FAQ http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/faq.html
Thou whoreson Z! Thou unnecessary letter! - Shakespeare
jrj...@my-deja.com
Daytripper,
I know that you, like the heron, are what I would describe as a "born
fisherman", and as such, I would surmise that you feel a kinship towards
the heron, as many do towards their competitors. In fact, I'll bet that
when you see a pond full of koi, you feel a secret urge to "drop a hook"
in the pond. Now even though (unlike the heron) I'm guessing you to be
a C & R fisherman, I am sure some watergardeners I know would be even
more likely to shoot at a C & R human messing with their fish than at a
heron.
By the way, there are plastic "heron lure" fish available that are
supposed to discourage herons from fishing in watergardens, but I assure
you that my fish are not "plastic".
Johns
In article <aafj4s8ausq9nff43...@4ax.com>,
day_t...@REMOVEyahoo.com wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Dec 1999 22:42:01 GMT, jrj...@my-deja.com wrote:
> [snip]
> >Most ponders "love" wildlife, or they would not participate in the
> >activity, which by it's nature involves much to do with nature.
>
> No, not really. What most ponders "love" is entirely "artificial" -
there's
> nothing "natural" about your activity.
>
> You deliver the reason why, right here:
>
> >As a general rule, I also suspect that anyone who has a $1,000 koi
would be
> >perfectly willing to protect it from being killed or maimed by
predatory
> >animals.
>
> Plastic, store bought fish are now "wildlife"?
>
> "I don't think so, Tim."
>
> You build a pond (artificial) where none existed, and fill it with
plastic
> fish that (a) are clearly not native to your area, and (b) are hardly
> "natural".
>
> Yet ponders grouse (<= pun) when a real, *natural* animal - one that
wasn't
> bred in captivity; one of a species that predates your existence,
never mind
> the existence of your pond; one of a species that BELONGS where you
find it;
> and your first thought is you wish you could kill it.
>
> Nice.
>
> I'm not trying to beat ponders over the head with this, but it's not
"nature"
> that you love. It's $1000 plastic fish.
>
> At least be honest with yourself and deal with it.
>
> /daytripper
>
jan jordan
> By the way, there are plastic "heron lure" fish available that are
>supposed to discourage herons from fishing in watergardens, but I assure
>you that my fish are not "plastic". >Johns
I have one of those, works too. Haven't had a heron visit since I put it
in.... course didn't have one before that either. ;o)
I am a bit nervous though.... as I driven by the delta, that is not but a
mere 3 minute heron flight from my house, I've seen a rouge heron who looks
like he may be staying for the winter. Quite often I've seen him in flight,
he's easy to remember as he has a wing feather missing on his left wing.
Wonder if some ponder already tried to rearrange his feathers? :o) I'm
hoping all my windsoxs and windchimes keep him away. I have one windsox
that extends 12 feet over the top of the ponds, about 10-15 feet up. ~ jan
K30a
Now that you brought up that heron that lives on the delta I'm thinking we have
a year round colony of herons.
(Do you remember what time of year it was when the heron visited my pond?)
I know there is a rookery up the river somewhere between Sunnyside and Prosser.
Daytripper
>Daytripper,
>
>I know that you, like the heron, are what I would describe as a "born
>fisherman", and as such, I would surmise that you feel a kinship towards
>the heron, as many do towards their competitors. In fact, I'll bet that
>when you see a pond full of koi, you feel a secret urge to "drop a hook"
>in the pond. Now even though (unlike the heron) I'm guessing you to be
>a C & R fisherman, I am sure some watergardeners I know would be even
>more likely to shoot at a C & R human messing with their fish than at a
>heron.
LOL! Well, John, you've nearly got me pegged, though it would be
overstatement to term an occasional fleeting thought as being a
"secret urge" to cast a fly at your Koi ;^)
I might have gone just a wee bit over the top before, but I still
maintain that building an artificial pond and stocking it with
non-native store-bought animals (the "plastic fish" as I termed them)
does not instantly convey "nature lover" status. Especially when that
same person expresses the desire to take the life of the one native
species that visits his/her pond.
Seems pretty cut and dried from where I'm typing this.
fwiw, I have a quarter acre pond on my property, courtesy of the last
Ice Age presumably, with a population of catfish, a variety of
sunnies, and a couple of bass, as well as turtles and a whole host of
frogs, and surrounded by various plant life, all indigenous to the
immediate area, none stocked, planted, or fed by us.
The pond receives more than its fair share of visits from herons, both
GB and green. The only thing we did to mitigate the heron's feeding
sprees was to provide some cover for the fish, consisting of a few
sunken packing crates with the end removed. Otherwise they're on their
own.
And they do become heron food on occasion, much to the consternation
of our black lab, whose "world" does not extend to the pond itself.
We let it all be, because that's nature in action, John. We are lucky
enough to simply observe...
See the difference?
Cheers.
/daytripper
Bonnie Espenshade
here and mine visited May.
--
Bonnie
NJ
http://www.users.fast.net/~maebe/index.htm
jan jordan
>JJ,
>Now that you brought up that heron that lives on the delta I'm thinking we have
>a year round colony of herons.
>(Do you remember what time of year it was when the heron visited my pond?)
>I know there is a rookery up the river somewhere between Sunnyside and Prosser.
Jan/Feb maybe? ~ jan
jan jordan
wrote:
>I believe that your heron arrived at early spring. I know it was before mine got
>here and mine visited May.
Yes, maybe more like March, I think the weather was cool and drippy and we
were all getting ponders' itchy. ;o) ~ jan
jrj...@my-deja.com
Your own private Eden sounds wonderful. Most watergardeners I know
would love to have such a natural habitat in their back yards, but alas,
that not only is beyond the means of most of us, there are simply not
enough such Edens to go around, hence, we must satisfy ourselves with
our miniature pseudo-nature-preserve koi and goldfish ponds and flower
gardens. Our problem with herons and other predators (given the tiny
habitats we can manage in our backyards) stems in part from the fact
that our pools are more like aquariums than your natural pond,and
require much more tinkering to keep their eco-systems operating, and
allow basically no room for truly natural eco-system balances such as
you observe in your natural pond.
Also, being artificial eco-systems, our watergardens are not the natural
purview of herons and the like. Our "plastic" fish are brightly colored,
slow moving, and trapped in shallow containers, completely unlike any
fish heron are likely to find in natural watercourses or ponds.
Allowing heron to feast indiscriminately on these tame fish could upset
the heron population and allow it to "bloom" which could lend credence
to the position that the occasional heron lost to irate koikeepers may
not be such a bad thing after all. An example of unintentional results
accruing from giving blanket "protection" to certain species is the
incredible population explosion of non-migratory Canadian geese, which
are fast becoming an ecological and health issue problem all over the
country.
Lastly, simply because someone has not the resources to own property
that contains natural ponds, streams or forest areas is no reason to
presume they do not "love" nature. Neither is the fact that they might
be willing to sacrifice a predatory bird to prevent the destruction of
their pet fish negate their "nature lover" status. Presume for the
moment that your Eden were in Alaska, and that you awoke one morning
realizing that your beloved black lab ( a domesticated species for
hundreds of years, albeit a "plastic" version of the wolf) were being
attacked be a grizzly. Would you stand idly by while your lab were
shredded into bear food, or would you not at least be tempted to grab a
gun and blow the grizzly to kingdom come?????????
Less blessed, but still a lover of nature, even herons( unless they are
at my pond),
Johns
article <tpun4ssr6lm3b36lg...@4ax.com>,
K30a
There is a fellow around here that posts pictures of herons and wildlife on the
Yakima river. I talked to him and he said, gulp Jan, we do have year round
herons here.
I would love to give up half a dozen goldfish to one, they are such neat
looking birds (do you think he would leave the *pet* fish alone?).
But JJ, after all these years, I just don't think your pond looks safe enough.
Must be all those wonderful windsoxes.
The local heron hangs out in the ponds at the base of the subdivision JJ and I
live in. When I come back from dropping off eldest son at basketball practice
(6:30am) I often see him fly over my van to the pond across the road. Very
spooky in the early morning hours.
Bonnie Espenshade
beautiful birds when they are in the air - just so they don't visit my pond!
--
Bonnie
NJ
http://www.users.fast.net/~maebe/index.htm
Derek Broughton
news:19991206234003...@ng-fc1.aol.com...
> Yup, Bonnie, I think you are right about early spring for the
heron visit.
>
> There is a fellow around here that posts pictures of herons and
wildlife on the
> Yakima river. I talked to him and he said, gulp Jan, we do have
year round
> herons here.
>
> I would love to give up half a dozen goldfish to one, they are
such neat
> looking birds (do you think he would leave the *pet* fish
alone?).
The first few times he arrived, my heron seems to have stuck to
the offspring of the cheap feeder goldfish, and left the pets
alone. But since any 'pets' I still have are right at the bottom
of the pond, all the time, he might as well have eaten those too.
:-(
--
Derek (www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond)
rec.ponds FAQ http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/faq.html
Your right to punch me ends just short of my nose! - Heinlein
Vernon Olson
Locally they call them cranes, but think they are the same thing. There will often
be a dozen in one of big trees. Makes my flesh crawl just to see them. I run home
and check my babies to see if they are ok. Ha. I have seen them scout out my
place, but haven't visisted yet.
vern
K30a wrote:
> Yup, Bonnie, I think you are right about early spring for the heron visit.
>
> There is a fellow around here that posts pictures of herons and wildlife on the
> Yakima river. I talked to him and he said, gulp Jan, we do have year round
> herons here.
>
> I would love to give up half a dozen goldfish to one, they are such neat
> looking birds (do you think he would leave the *pet* fish alone?).
>
> But JJ, after all these years, I just don't think your pond looks safe enough.
> Must be all those wonderful windsoxes.
>
> The local heron hangs out in the ponds at the base of the subdivision JJ and I
> live in. When I come back from dropping off eldest son at basketball practice
> (6:30am) I often see him fly over my van to the pond across the road. Very
> spooky in the early morning hours.
>
> k30 and the water gardening labradors
> REC.PONDS INFORMAL FAQ PAGE
> http://hometown.aol.com/k30a/myhomepage/writing.html
> http://hometown.aol.com/k30a/myhomepage/index.html
--
Visit my Ponds at: HTTP://www.webpak.net/~vrolson
Vernon Olson
Daytripper wrote:
I can certainly agree with your idea that what we do is not a natural thing
unless you stop to think that we as humans are just another of natures
creations. As such we are just another thing in nature that protects or
destroys what pleases us. Each of us have our prejudices of what is
important to us and worthy of protection. I agree with the statement made, I
think by K30, about how nature is not all nice, but as cruel as we can
emagine. As in when a cat catches a mouse.. Gross :-)
vern
brett rowley
Bonnie Espenshade <ma...@fast.net> wrote:
>That is around the time I remember seeing them when I'm out walking. They are
>beautiful birds when they are in the air - just so they don't visit my pond!
>--
>Bonnie
>NJ
I hate herons, and waterturkeys, egrets, kingfishers, pelicans, wood storks, loons, ospreys, and the entire fish eating
bunch of birds.
Mostly, my ponds (even three acres in size) are covered over.
At my "real job" we've been having trouble with herons and egrets hanging around the boat docks and leaving droppings in the
boats and everywhere. I dragged out a device I'd purchased years ago, a speaker and a box that made sounds like a heron
being alternatively strangled and bitten by an eagle or something. Anyway, it works great, for about two or three weeks.
Then the herons realize it isn't real and they come right back. Then I rmembered why it was left in the back of the barn,
another "snake oil" device I spent good money on. I got tons. Of snake oil that is.
Brett
P.S. I love snake oil, if its good snake oil.
>
>http://www.users.fast.net/~maebe/index.htm
Derek Broughton
news:384D382D...@micron.net...
> K30: We have lots of heron here and they nest in the trees
along the river.
> Locally they call them cranes, but think they are the same
thing.
Cranes fly with their necks stretched out straight, Herons with
their heads tucked back against the body. I expect you're right
though, because I think Cranes nest on the ground.
--
Derek (www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond)
rec.ponds FAQ http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/faq.html
A great many people believe they are thinking when they are
merely rearranging their prejudices.
Derek Broughton
>
>As in when a cat catches a mouse.. Gross :-)
Mouses aren't as bad as when Jessica gets a mole. Mice she will
eventually eat completely. Moles require several sittings.
Starting with decapitation....
K30a
eventually eat completely. Moles require several sittings.
Starting with decapitation.... >>
There are times when I am very glad to be allergic to cats....
The only thing the labradors decapitate around here are socks.
They have a steady supply as the teenagers think the only place to store dirty
socks is in the living room.
Vernon Olson
vern
Derek Broughton wrote:
> Vernon Olson <vro...@micron.net> wrote in message
> news:384D382D...@micron.net...
> > K30: We have lots of heron here and they nest in the trees
> along the river.
> > Locally they call them cranes, but think they are the same
> thing.
>
> Cranes fly with their necks stretched out straight, Herons with
> their heads tucked back against the body. I expect you're right
> though, because I think Cranes nest on the ground.
> --
> Derek (www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond)
> rec.ponds FAQ http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/faq.html
> A great many people believe they are thinking when they are
> merely rearranging their prejudices.
--
~ Windsong ~
> and check my babies to see if they are ok. Ha. I have seen them scout
out my
> place, but haven't visisted yet.
I said the same thing.... then they visited! Shooting a shotgun over their
heads or below their tree perch by your pond will sometimes get rid of them
for good. Drastic, but they seem to realize that you mean business. Now
the @#$%&*# snakes are another matter.
--
Carol... feeding snakes, snappers and herons since 1997...
Before buying any health care products on the net see:
http://www.quackwatch.com
****************************************************************
brett rowley
"Derek Broughton" <dbrou...@usa.net> wrote:
>Vernon Olson <vro...@micron.net> wrote in message
>news:384D3A57...@micron.net...
>>
>>As in when a cat catches a mouse.. Gross :-)
>
>Mouses aren't as bad as when Jessica gets a mole. Mice she will
>eventually eat completely. Moles require several sittings.
>Starting with decapitation....
>--
>Derek (www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond)
>rec.ponds FAQ http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/faq.html
>A great many people believe they are thinking when they are
>merely rearranging their prejudices.
>
>
I was gonna say something. When I lived in E Texas, my cat would catch a mole from its mound, carry it to the middel of the
road where it couldn't escape, then torture it to death. I didn't like moles messing up my yard, but couldn't stand to watch
the cat play with one. I would always go and crush its head, much to the cat's dismay. She would then have to eat the thing
as it was no more fun.
Brett
~ WindSong ~
brett rowley <bre...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:82lpgc$4o4$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
> I was gonna say something. When I lived in E Texas, my cat would catch a
mole from its mound, carry it to the middel of the
> road where it couldn't escape, then torture it to death.
=================
Just another reason I don't keep cats anymore. If the local fox don't kill
them then they kill everything in sight, and horribly as you already
mentioned. I'll stick with dogs.
--
Carol... the frugal ponder...
View my webpage about my fish and ponds at:
http://www.hotcom.net/users/fishhead/welcome.html
}<(((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o. ~~~ }<(((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((o>
nedra101
girl cats and two little boy kitties here in the living room with me. CoCo is sleeping under the
Christmas tree, Trix in an arm chair, Tig in the chair beside me and Blue Eyes wrapped around the
monitor. Three are indoor cats, true. The inside/outside cat, CoCo, doesn't like rainy
weather - so she is inside for the duration .....
Such peace and contentment. I can't imagine a more tranquil scene....
Nedra
--
Nedra's Ponds:
www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836/
" ~ WindSong ~" <Fi...@thebig.net> wrote in message
news:eKZ34.17243$417.7...@typ12.nn.bcandid.com...
nedra101
ingrained. She has been known to catch voles and other underground varmits. When she goes in for
the kill... I turn away ... not wanting to impose myself on this most innate feline characteristic."nedra101" <nedr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:82q03o$5tk$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
brett rowley
"nedra101" <nedr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>CoCo, one of my female cats, is five years old and has always had the hunter instinct deeply
>ingrained. She has been known to catch voles and other underground varmits. When she goes in for
>the kill... I turn away ... not wanting to impose myself on this most innate feline characteristic.
>Nedra
The killer instinct is the entire point to cats at a fish farm. Since bringing three kittens from my house to the farm,
they have cleaned up all the rats, mice, and cockroaches (we get those really BIG industrial roaches down here, ewwww).
Of course they have also learned that fish is good to eat. We feed them culls on the days we are sorting koi. In the
presence of cats, one must be very careful with a high quality, small fish. Drop it and its gone.
Brett
Derek Broughton
news:82q03o$5tk$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Such peace and contentment. I can't imagine a more tranquil
scene....
Ack!!! Most of the time that Jessica is inside she's either
yelling for food, or yelling to be outside.
Ungrateful little...
jrj...@my-deja.com
"Unless living on a farm, possession of MORE than THREE cats is a
predictor of mental illness." I don't propose to know if the cats drive
'em crazy or if crazy people are just drawn to cats, and, I am sure as
with the case of all general rules, there are many exceptions,
but, exceptions do not decrease the validity of the general rule. How
about it, cat lovers, any of you agree with me?
Johns
In article <WK844.197239$5r2.4...@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>,
nedra101
being a "cat". I have had such good luck with cats. They are the lovingest animals you could
ever imagine. Oops... they really think they are people..... and look upon us as some sort of
inferior mutant. Mark Twain has some wonderful quotes about the cat... none of which I can
remember .... but the quotes show a great deal of insight into the soul of a cat.
"Derek Broughton" <dbrou...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:WK844.197239$5r2.4...@tor-nn1.netcom.ca...
NOn_cra...@pacbell.net
dogs; cats own people. My half-coyote bitch loves me, it's in her genes!
As a further holiday aside for those in a quandary as to what gifts would
be appropriate for their SO, remember these two observations:
Man's best friend is the dog; diamonds are a girl's best friend.
--
Nick, Retired in the San Fernando Valley www.boonchoo.com
-------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
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nedra101
Several holes in your observance... big enough to drive a Mac Truck through :O) Although you do
state that this is a "general rule" that you propose .... and that there are many exceptions.
Notwithstanding the foregoing - here is my take on your deduction nonetheless:
There is a vast difference in "farm cats" and house cats. House cats tend to be treated as though
they are human .... they get shots, get to pick out their own food. ...have their own sleeping
quarters ... & change that on a whim decided by the cat. They will hunt prey but usually will not
eat it once caught. They will bring the dead varmit ... death usually by smothering ... to the
person they own just to show what they can and will do.
Farm cats on the other hand, live mainly by their wits which are substantial. They are hunters
and eat their prey. They come and go as they please .... Many times an accident happens, the cat
dies, and there are always tons (I am exaggerating, here) to take their place. I remember a
program on PBS about cats. Apparently there is a survival streak in the tom cats genes that makes
them want their progency to live.... so they summarily kill off the kittens of another tom and
impregnate the female at the soonest.
I have never lived on a farm ... but I know of a guy who does ... and his cat is an exception to
this rule. The cat pretty much rules the dogs and all in the house. Even eats off the plate of
this guy .... who is owned by the cat. I feel this is a classic example of cat ownership of a
person. BTW, the guy absolutely adores his Cat.... and there is evidence that the cat loves him
back.
Oh and finally, I have 4 indoor cats that own me. And why.... I am just as sane as anyone else
on this NG .... ;-) Moreover, who says the exceptions do not render the general rule invalid?
Nedra from Missouri
Nedra's Ponds:
www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836/
<jrj...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:82rq0n$ge3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In my 60 years of observance, I propose the following as a general rule:
> "Unless living on a farm, possession of MORE than THREE cats is a
> predictor of mental illness." I don't propose to know if the cats drive
> 'em crazy or if crazy people are just drawn to cats, and, I am sure as
> with the case of all general rules, there are many exceptions,
> but, exceptions do not decrease the validity of the general rule. How
> about it, cat lovers, any of you agree with me?
> Johns
>
>
>
> In article <WK844.197239$5r2.4...@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>,
> "Derek Broughton" <dbrou...@usa.net> wrote:
> > nedra101 <nedr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:82q03o$5tk$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> >
> > > Such peace and contentment. I can't imagine a more tranquil
> > scene....
> >
> > Ack!!! Most of the time that Jessica is inside she's either
> > yelling for food, or yelling to be outside.
> >
> > Ungrateful little...
> >
> >
>
>
brett rowley
jrj...@my-deja.com wrote:
>In my 60 years of observance, I propose the following as a general rule:
>"Unless living on a farm, possession of MORE than THREE cats is a
>predictor of mental illness." I don't propose to know if the cats drive
>'em crazy or if crazy people are just drawn to cats, and, I am sure as
>with the case of all general rules, there are many exceptions,
>but, exceptions do not decrease the validity of the general rule. How
>about it, cat lovers, any of you agree with me?
>Johns
>
>
>
>In article <WK844.197239$5r2.4...@tor-nn1.netcom.ca>,
> "Derek Broughton" <dbrou...@usa.net> wrote:
>> nedra101 <nedr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:82q03o$5tk$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>>
>> > Such peace and contentment. I can't imagine a more tranquil
>> scene....
>>
>> Ack!!! Most of the time that Jessica is inside she's either
>> yelling for food, or yelling to be outside.
>>
>> Ungrateful little...
>>
>>
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
I don't live on a farm, but work on one. I had three cats there and had to give one away. They did clean out every rat,
mouse, and cockroach for me, and I had A LOT. But, three cats was too many.
Brett
brett rowley
"nedra101" <nedr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Johns,
>Several holes in your observance... big enough to drive a Mac Truck through :O) Although you do
>state that this is a "general rule" that you propose .... and that there are many exceptions.
>Notwithstanding the foregoing - here is my take on your deduction nonetheless:
>
>There is a vast difference in "farm cats" and house cats. House cats tend to be treated as though
>they are human .... they get shots, get to pick out their own food. ...have their own sleeping
>quarters ... & change that on a whim decided by the cat. They will hunt prey but usually will not
>eat it once caught. They will bring the dead varmit ... death usually by smothering ... to the
>person they own just to show what they can and will do.
>
> Farm cats on the other hand, live mainly by their wits which are substantial. They are hunters
>and eat their prey. They come and go as they please .... Many times an accident happens, the cat
>dies, and there are always tons (I am exaggerating, here) to take their place. I remember a
>program on PBS about cats. Apparently there is a survival streak in the tom cats genes that makes
>them want their progency to live.... so they summarily kill off the kittens of another tom and
>impregnate the female at the soonest.
>
>I have never lived on a farm ... but I know of a guy who does ... and his cat is an exception to
>this rule. The cat pretty much rules the dogs and all in the house. Even eats off the plate of
>this guy .... who is owned by the cat. I feel this is a classic example of cat ownership of a
>person. BTW, the guy absolutely adores his Cat.... and there is evidence that the cat loves him
>back.
>
>Oh and finally, I have 4 indoor cats that own me. And why.... I am just as sane as anyone else
>on this NG .... ;-) Moreover, who says the exceptions do not render the general rule invalid?
>
>Nedra from Missouri
As far as the number of cats owned, I don't think that has a lot to do with mental illness. The number of ponds and/or fish
owned is another matter entirely. Of course I am the exception. Nothing wrong with me. I do need another $20,000 kohaku
female, will probably purchase one instead of a tractor I also need, but I'm fine. Now the rest of these nuts, they are
crazy.
Brett
>
>Nedra's Ponds:
>www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836/
>
><jrj...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:82rq0n$ge3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Derek Broughton
> chuckle... Derek, I think Jessica senses that you don't
really like her; therefore, she is just
> being a "cat". I have had such good luck with cats. They
are the lovingest animals you could
> ever imagine. Oops... they really think they are people.....
and look upon us as some sort of
> inferior mutant. Mark Twain has some wonderful quotes about
the cat... none of which I can
> remember .... but the quotes show a great deal of insight into
the soul of a cat.
Now whyever would she get that idea :-)
She used to be really friendly before we got Dewy, but she never
had half the brain of a dog. She still hasn't learned that
screaming to be fed only gets her thrown out the back door if it
isn't dinner time...
nedra101
screaming serves its purpose? She knows it irritates the L out of you ... mission
accomplished...she got your attention :) And of course she is jealous of the attention Dewy is
getting.
Nedra
--
Nedra's Ponds:
www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836/
"Derek Broughton" <dbrou...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:dDS44.197628$5r2.4...@tor-nn1.netcom.ca...
K30a
to do with mental illness.~~
Dogs.
My city, making a wise move before they ever knew I was moving to town, ruled
that three dogs was enough for anyone.
They did make an exception for litters of puppies.
So we have raised 22 puppies and made sure everyone of them went to a good
home.
Heidi, being the better looking lab, is going to be bred someday and I will
have my puppy fix again.
We raise wonderful puppies. Because of all the love and attention they get from
the family and neighborhood children they make excellent family dogs. Only had
one puppy out of 22 that I would not sell to a family with young children. This
puppy needed teenage boys and wide open spaces and I sent him off with two farm
boys.
Derek Broughton
> Brett wrote ~~As far as the number of cats owned, I don't think
that has a lot
> to do with mental illness.~~
>
> Dogs.
> My city, making a wise move before they ever knew I was moving
to town, ruled
> that three dogs was enough for anyone.
> They did make an exception for litters of puppies.
Sometimes I wonder if politicians are born without brains, or
just have them removed later in life. If they really think
people shouldn't have more than three dogs (and I actually think
that's a good number - I have three, and believe I've reached the
limit of what any reasonably able person can handle!), why on
earth would they make an exception that allows more if you want
to irresponsibly breed them! Most people (surely not you,
Kathy!) shouldn't be allowed to produce puppies (much less kids,
but that's a whole 'nother issue). The mind boggles...
brett rowley
"Derek Broughton" <dbrou...@usa.net> wrote:
> why on
>earth would they make an exception that allows more if you want
>to irresponsibly breed them! Most people (surely not you,
>Kathy!) shouldn't be allowed to produce puppies (much less kids,
>but that's a whole 'nother issue). The mind boggles...
>
>
And so it goes with koi.
Brett
K30a
Kathy!) shouldn't be allowed to produce puppies (much less kids,
You are right about our puppies, they are excellent representatives of the
canine clan.
The children, however, are only half grown and the jury is still out on them.
;-)
NOn_cra...@pacbell.net
[snip]
> screaming to be fed only gets her thrown out the back door
If the door is closed when this happens, she will learn faster.
K30a
~~Is that 3 great danes or 3 Pomeranians or 3 pit bulls or 3 cats?~~
Three Irish Wolfhounds or three small elegant cats.
No limits on fish, lizards, birds, frogs, toads or hamsters as far as I know.
Three is okay with me, each child has a dog to take to bed with them and, as
Martha would say, that's a good thing.
brett rowley
dr-...@execpc.com wrote:
>Is that 3 great danes or 3 Pomeranians or 3 pit bulls or 3 cats? Ingrid
>
>
>k3...@aol.comDESPMER (K30a) wrote:
>>My city, making a wise move before they ever knew I was moving to town, ruled
>>that three dogs was enough for anyone.
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>dr-...@execpc.com in the Frozen Tundra zone 5 sorta
>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>for care of goldfish go to http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
You know how I feel, one pit bull on this earth is one too many. The breed has outlived its purpose. Extermination should
be in order. Maybe one or two left in a zoo somewhere or something.
As long as a person has the wherewithall and facilities to propelry care for thier animals, who is the "city" to tell them how
many they can have?
Brett
Derek Broughton
>
> You know how I feel, one pit bull on this earth is one too
many. The breed has outlived its purpose. Extermination should
> be in order. Maybe one or two left in a zoo somewhere or
something.
If you feel that way, you probably want to ban Golden Retrievers
then, since they bite far more people every year than pit bulls.
Of course, the consequences of a bite by a pit bull are a little
more serious, but face it - most of the reports about somebody
being attacked by a pit bull are _not_ pit bulls. Most of the
politicians that have voted to outlaw them wouldn't recognize a
pit bull. For the record, most pit bulls are very good with
people, but they should be kept leashed at all times because
they're dangerous around other dogs.
> As long as a person has the wherewithall and facilities to
propelry care for thier animals, who is the "city" to tell them
how
> many they can have?
I certainly agree with that. But now we're getting dangerously
close to "Homeowners Associations"...
On my German Shorthair Pointer list, the list manager recently
had her dogs seized and initially declared 'dangerous' (which
would have meant she would have to tie them up and muzzle them
for the rest of their lives), because they attacked a cat (I
believe _in their own yard_). Fortunately, the person who had to
rule on the case felt that dangerous referred only to dogs that
attack people, and after about a month she got them back from the
Ozzie SPCA. But they were in such a condition at that point,
that the SPCA would have been within their rights to sieze them
from the SPCA for neglect. So "properly care for" isn't a very
high standard, at least there.
--
Derek (www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond)
rec.ponds FAQ http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/faq.html
My cousin's a fool, and thou art another. - Shakespeare
K30a
As Derek said, this could end up being another *Homeowner Association* and we
would not be subject any more to the recent glowing recommendations that
rec.ponds has been receiving ;-)
And since I am the one subject to the three large animal rule, besides Jan (and
she is within the law), and only mentioned it to poke fun at myself, as I would
be forever bringing home worthy dogs and straining the dog food budget beyond
endurance, that it really isn't much of a problem....
but still does not answer the original thought posed of how many cats does it
take to turn one from a cat lover to a cat collector who is a few cat kibbles
short of a full bowl?
I would guess Nedra still has all her kibbles despite having more than _a_ cat
around the house.
nedra101
Nedra
Nedra's Ponds:
www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836/
"K30a" <k3...@aol.comDESPMER> wrote in message news:19991213160728...@ng-fm1.aol.com...
Rich M
magnificent birds. It's dimwitted rednecks like you that caused all
birds of prey to be protected. And of the other animals you hate - bats
eat 1000 mosquitoes a night, snakes eat mice and moles. Get a clue! Any
fool who cares more about the goldfish in their plastic lined pond than
our endangered and protected species is the SOB who deserves to be shot.
jan jordan
>
>brett rowley <bre...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>As long as a person has the wherewithall and facilities to propelry care
>for thier animals, who is the "city" to tell them how many they can have?
But someone is going to have to make a line in the sand of who has the
wherewithall & facilities and who hasn't, and that my friend, is were the
government is suppose to step in. After all, he who doesn't have it,
doesn't always know it, till someone tells them and boy is that kill the
messager time, or what? This takes us back to the brain issue and
government officials.... yes, their brain is removed before they run for
office, I'm quite sure. ;o) ~ jan
brett rowley
"Derek Broughton" <dbrou...@usa.net> wrote:
>brett rowley <bre...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>news:8335p4$7dk$1...@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net...
>>
>> You know how I feel, one pit bull on this earth is one too
>many. The breed has outlived its purpose. Extermination should
>> be in order. Maybe one or two left in a zoo somewhere or
>something.
>
>If you feel that way, you probably want to ban Golden Retrievers
>then, since they bite far more people every year than pit bulls.
>Of course, the consequences of a bite by a pit bull are a little
>more serious, but face it - most of the reports about somebody
>being attacked by a pit bull are _not_ pit bulls. Most of the
>politicians that have voted to outlaw them wouldn't recognize a
>pit bull. For the record, most pit bulls are very good with
>people, but they should be kept leashed at all times because
>they're dangerous around other dogs.
A pit bull killed my springer spaniel in what witnesses say was an "unprovoked attack". My dog was out of his yard, as was
the pit bull.
In fairness, the pit bull's owner offered to pay the $900 vet bill. I tried to save him, he was my dog, even if he was
given to me (didn't cost me any money).
At the time, the pit bull's owner was out of town and the dog was left out to run loose.
If that or any other pit bull ever steps into my yard while I'm home, it won't go home. I am an animal breeder. That breed
was bred to kill and does so very effectively. I used to breed game chickens. I never took them to fight, never saw a
chicken fight in the US. But those chickens will kill one another (the roosters) if allowed to be in the same place at the
same time.
>
>> As long as a person has the wherewithall and facilities to
>propelry care for thier animals, who is the "city" to tell them
>how
>> many they can have?
>
>I certainly agree with that. But now we're getting dangerously
>close to "Homeowners Associations"...
>
>On my German Shorthair Pointer list, the list manager recently
>had her dogs seized and initially declared 'dangerous' (which
>would have meant she would have to tie them up and muzzle them
>for the rest of their lives), because they attacked a cat (I
>believe _in their own yard_). Fortunately, the person who had to
>rule on the case felt that dangerous referred only to dogs that
>attack people, and after about a month she got them back from the
>Ozzie SPCA. But they were in such a condition at that point,
>that the SPCA would have been within their rights to sieze them
>from the SPCA for neglect. So "properly care for" isn't a very
>high standard, at least there.
>--
>Derek (www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond)
>rec.ponds FAQ http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/faq.html
>My cousin's a fool, and thou art another. - Shakespeare
>
>
If a dog kills another dog, cat, or something else in its own yard, that is not the same. Outside its yard, the animal and
the owner should both be held responsible.
Brett
brett rowley
torc...@webtv.net (Rich M) wrote:
Huh? I missed something here.
Some species are not protected out of endangerment. We've got way too many cormorants for their NATURAL food supply. Same
for many other protected species. Just because its protected doesn't mean its endangered.
1 Blue Heron equals how many $2500 koi????
Fortunately, ADC (Animal Damage Control) will control or provide the means to control many of these. On fish hatcheries,
permits are given to kill damaging birds that are not endangered. A blanket permit was given to all American fish producers
last year, to kill cormorants feeding in thier fish ponds.
Brett
brett rowley
JJs...@noe-mail.com (jan jordan) wrote:
>>I agree. Ingrid
>>
>>brett rowley <bre...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>As long as a person has the wherewithall and facilities to propelry care
>>for thier animals, who is the "city" to tell them how many they can have?
>>>Brett
>
>But someone is going to have to make a line in the sand of who has the
>wherewithall & facilities and who hasn't, and that my friend, is were the
>government is suppose to step in. After all, he who doesn't have it,
>doesn't always know it, till someone tells them and boy is that kill the
>messager time, or what? This takes us back to the brain issue and
>government officials.... yes, their brain is removed before they run for
>office, I'm quite sure. ;o) ~ jan
Touchy issue.
Somebody has to decide it. The folks that raise the pit bulls around here have very little in the way of "facilities". Each
dog tied to a post with a small lean to for a house. They tell me it makes 'em tough. And they have to be kept seperated or
they will kill one another. Beautiful animals indeed.
Why all the folks I voted in office gots brains. I learned to vote from an old time attorney. He taught me to read the paper
and vote for the person that will make the paper most interesting to read. Hasn't failed me yet.
Brett
daytripper
>1 Blue Heron equals how many $2500 koi????
All of them.
Dave
brett rowley wrote:
> -----EDIT----
>
> Huh? I missed something here.
>
> ---EDIT------
> A blanket permit was given to all American fish producers
> last year, to kill cormorants feeding in thier fish ponds.
>
> Brett
What do they taste like?
Peace
Dave
--
-Remove X to reply to this address
-/-
Board of Directors
E.H.A.P.Corp.
http://www.ehap.org
eh...@ehap.org
brett rowley
daytripper <day_t...@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote:
Nope, a blue heron isn't worth even one $2 koi. Especially when that $2 koi and others like it make my house and car
payments, pays my taxes, feeds my children and dog, etc.
As far as I'm concerned the blue herons can go live in a swamp where they belong and leave me, my friends, my fish and
whatever else alone.
The coolest thing is to watch a falconer work the herons. A small falcon and a big heron, no contest. And its legal.
I don't kill herons at my place, but I do discourage them very strongly. My ponds are mostly all covered up with nets and
strings. A big job on a 3 acre pond. Sometimes, not often (enough for me), the heron is very persistant and will eventually
hang itself in the protective covering. No prettier sight in the eyes of a fish breeder. Mostly, the herons will go to
somebody else's fish farm to hunt.
I've 240 acres of reservoirs where the herons can hang out and fish to thier heart's content wihtout being bothered. But,
they had better stay off the fish hathery ponds where it is very difficult fishing.
Brett
brett rowley
Dave <dhol...@Xameritech.net> wrote:
>
>
>brett rowley wrote:
>
>> -----EDIT----
>>
>> Huh? I missed something here.
>>
>> ---EDIT------
>
>> A blanket permit was given to all American fish producers
>> last year, to kill cormorants feeding in thier fish ponds.
>>
>> Brett
>
>What do they taste like?
About halfway between a whooping crane and a bald eagle.
Brett
Vernon Olson
common sense part, other wise they couldn't be so dangerous.
vern
jan jordan wrote:
> >I agree. Ingrid
> >
> >brett rowley <bre...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >>As long as a person has the wherewithall and facilities to propelry care
> >for thier animals, who is the "city" to tell them how many they can have?
> >>Brett
>
> But someone is going to have to make a line in the sand of who has the
> wherewithall & facilities and who hasn't, and that my friend, is were the
> government is suppose to step in. After all, he who doesn't have it,
> doesn't always know it, till someone tells them and boy is that kill the
> messager time, or what? This takes us back to the brain issue and
> government officials.... yes, their brain is removed before they run for
> office, I'm quite sure. ;o) ~ jan
--
Visit my Ponds at: HTTP://www.webpak.net/~vrolson
brett rowley
daytripper <day_t...@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 06:20:10 GMT, brett rowley <bre...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>1 Blue Heron equals how many $2500 koi????
>
>All of them.
I know many of you city folks do not understand that where the people work that raise your fish for your ponds, your food to
eat, your trees to build your homes, your plants to decorate your yards, etc. is a real place with real problems. Even so,
these places are almost always supportive of wildlife in the way of habitat management and by existing without being covered
over in concrete.
If as many of the "bleeding hearts" actually went out to these places to understand as made commentary about them, perhaps the
world would be a better place for us and wildlife to co-exist.
Simply by existing, each of us impacts the world around us in both negative as well as positve ways.
Brett
"If you eat, you are involved in agriculture"
Derek Broughton
>
> If a dog kills another dog, cat, or something else in its own
yard, that is not the same. Outside its yard, the animal and
> the owner should both be held responsible.
No disagreement from me there. I hadn't heard about how your
springer died - must have been while I was offline. I love dogs,
but I have no objections to people doing what they have to to
control strays - even if they know who owns them. Dogs can't be
allowed to run free. My two oldest could be outdoors, loose, all
day long and they'd stay in the yard. The little one would
probably be right at the back door waiting for me. The other one
can't be outside without someone present. When she did get loose
the last time it cost me $200 to patch her up when the neighbor's
dog attacked her- but it was on his property and I never even
bothered to tell the owner.
Derek Broughton
news:23434-38...@storefull-243.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
> I am appalled that any one would consider shooting one of these
> magnificent birds. It's dimwitted rednecks like you that caused
all
Well now, if you're going to call someone a dimwitted redneck, it
would be polite to quote some of the message so we know which
dimwitted redneck you mean. Probably someone on my killfile,
since I have no idea what you're talking about.
> birds of prey to be protected. And of the other animals you
hate - bats
> eat 1000 mosquitoes a night, snakes eat mice and moles. Get a
clue! Any
> fool who cares more about the goldfish in their plastic lined
pond than
> our endangered and protected species is the SOB who deserves to
be shot.
I don't think _any_ Heron species are endangered (certainly not
the Great Blues we usually talk about) in North America. And
they're only protected in the sense that it's basically illegal
to shoot anything but game birds.
Personally, I wouldn't shoot anything. Including dimwitted
rednecks.
--
Derek (www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond)
rec.ponds FAQ http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/faq.html
Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to
alter it every six months. - Wilde
Derek Broughton
news:385663B9...@micron.net...
> Jan: How can you say that? :-) They don't remove all the
brain, just the
> common sense part, other wise they couldn't be so dangerous.
Jan was just agreeing with something I'd said - but I guess
you're right :-)
Derek Broughton
> In article <imob5sokhqtp2ftaq...@4ax.com>,
> daytripper <day_t...@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 06:20:10 GMT, brett rowley
<bre...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> >>1 Blue Heron equals how many $2500 koi????
> >
> >All of them.
>
when that $2 koi and others like it make my
I don't think he said that Brett - I think he said 1 Blue Heron
will eventually _eat_ all of them...
Rich M
you think PROTECTED means? And how do you think a species achieves that
status? Usually through loss of habitat - as in the case of the Great
Blue Heron - or through poisoning of the food supply, or from wanton
killing by humans. Chicken farmers are no longer allowed to kill Hawks
and Eagles who predate there stock, Nor should a fish farmer feel that
they are above the law. A prudent poultry farmer will enclose his coup.
An intelligent fish farmer would do the same. Setting a tangle trap is
no more honorable than pulling a gun trigger. I live in the country and
have watched the numbers of nearly all protected species decline over
time. People as individuals can hinder rather than help the march toward
extinction. It is self centered individuals more concerned with their
own greed than the state of the natural world that have reduced our
Earth to the sorry state it is in today. While they line their pockets,
what legacy do they leave tomorrows generation? A picture in a book of a
species that no longer exists in part due to them? It is a difficult
thing to live in balance with nature, most are too lazy or simply don't
care enough to even try. Rest assured there are some of left who still
care. Anyone who considers a bird that was trying to feed it's young
hung by the neck due to his own hand a fine sight needs help.
jan jordan
wrote:
>Jan: How can you say that? :-) They don't remove all the brain, just the
>common sense part, other wise they couldn't be so dangerous.
>vern
Have to agree with you there, vern, please retract my statement to read not
all but 95% removal. ;o) ~ jan
jan jordan
wrote:
>care. Anyone who considers a bird that was trying to feed it's young
>hung by the neck due to his own hand a fine sight needs help.
Yes, winter is here and the coals are just barely glowing in rec.ponds. ;o)
To the sentence above... another take on it... we are improving the herons'
genetic code to live long an prosper as only the smart birds (who don't
fish farm and/or hobbyists' ponds) survive. I'd never kill a heron, but if
one were to enter my pond area I'd throw everything on my deck at.
Hopefully this will teach it that fishing next to a house isn't wise and
keep it away from the pond with the gun owner. Who wouldn't take the time
for this educational lesson. :o) ~ jan
Daytripper
wrote:
>In article <imob5sokhqtp2ftaq...@4ax.com>,
> daytripper <day_t...@REMOVEyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 14 Dec 1999 06:20:10 GMT, brett rowley <bre...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>1 Blue Heron equals how many $2500 koi????
>>
>>All of them.
>
> I know many of you city folks do not understand that where the people work that raise your fish for your ponds, your food to
>eat, your trees to build your homes, your plants to decorate your yards, etc. is a real place with real problems. Even so,
>these places are almost always supportive of wildlife in the way of habitat management and by existing without being covered
>over in concrete.
>
>If as many of the "bleeding hearts" actually went out to these places to understand as made commentary about them, perhaps the
>world would be a better place for us and wildlife to co-exist.
>
>Simply by existing, each of us impacts the world around us in both negative as well as positve ways.
LOL! Man, you're just too easy. You asked the question, I gave you my
answer. I do in fact think a single wild native creature is "equals"
all the high-priced pet fish you can raise...
If you can't handle answers you don't like, then don't ask questions.
btw: That's a pretty broad brush you're swinging there, bub. Some of
us not only live in the boonies, we work farms ourselves. However, we
don't invoke the "You bleeding heart city folks don't know where your
food is coming from!" line in defense of pet fish farming...
/daytripper
Derek Broughton
> Of course protected and endangered are two different levels,
but what do
> you think PROTECTED means? And how do you think a species
achieves that
> status? Usually through loss of habitat - as in the case of the
Great
> Blue Heron -
Well, once again you're responding without any indication of who
you're quoting.
Great Blue Herons are neither endangered, or in any way at
hazard. They _aren't_ losing habitat. Unlike many birds,
they're quite comfortable coexisting with people - which is
exactly why ponders have trouble with them.
When the Great Blue in question was feeding in somebody's pond in
December, it kind of makes a mockery of your 'feeding their
young' argument.
An intelligent fish farmer, with hundreds of acres of ponds,
would not be either intelligent or in business if he caged all
his ponds.
oh hell, why bother, you're just a troll
K30a
"equals"
all the high-priced pet fish you can raise...~~
Wait a minute.....
One wild animal is more worthy than a pond full of _pet_ fish, eh?
Hmm, would you think it is okay to allow a wild coyote to kill my dog because
the coyote is wild and my dog is not?
daytripper
>Day_tripper wrote ~~ I do in fact think a single wild native creature is
>"equals"
>all the high-priced pet fish you can raise...~~
>
>Wait a minute.....
>One wild animal is more worthy than a pond full of _pet_ fish, eh?
Please review what I said (it's right up there ^) and note the key words
"equals" and "high-priced pet fish". You words are yours; mine are mine.
>Hmm, would you think it is okay to allow a wild coyote to kill my dog because
>the coyote is wild and my dog is not?
LOL! Aside from the extreme rarity of such events (and my personal dislike of
miniature/toy breeds that might actually be targeted by coyotes) I won't
engage in dueling with metaphors.
What I said was quite specific.
And that's about all I have to say on that.
/daytripper
Rich M
Enviromental Quality exsits? Why is there a Wetland Protection Act?
Perhaps they were created as hobbies - oh sorry thats your line of work.
And in your little world does Protected Species mean kill it? You've
been playing fishy's so much you seem to have lost touch with reality.
nedra101
.... I remember the thread on this NG last year about this very subject. Daytripper must be a
city dude or dudess to utter such nonsense.
Nedra from Missouri ...
--
Nedra's Ponds:
www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836/
"K30a" <k3...@aol.comDESPMER> wrote in message news:19991214190657...@ng-ff1.aol.com...
> Day_tripper wrote ~~LOL! Aside from the extreme rarity of such events (and my
> personal dislike of
> miniature/toy breeds that might actually be targeted by coyotes) I won't engage
> in dueling with metaphors.
> What I said was quite specific.~~
>
> Oh, not fair....
> ~~And that's about all I have to say on that.~~
> But regardless, have computer, will natter at you anyway.
>
> Extreme rarity?
> Only toys and minature?
>
> Around here coyotes hunt in packs. Domesticated Dog, no matter what his size,
> doesn't stand a chance.
> It was the first thing our new neighbors warned us of when we moved in. Watch
> your dogs, don't leave them out unprotected until you get your fence up.
> And I won't even comment on your dastardly remark on toys and miniature breeds.
> Just beware of Chihuahuas driving around looking for Taco Bells....
daytripper
>Oh, not fair....
>~~And that's about all I have to say on that.~~
>But regardless, have computer, will natter at you anyway.
OK - I'll respond - but only because you have good taste in dogs ;^)
>Extreme rarity?
>Only toys and minature?
I'll dig up some cites if you'd like, but by any measure, the number of
documented coyote kills of domesticated canines is quite rare. Cats, lambs,
and fowl, oth, are much more numerous.
>Around here coyotes hunt in packs. Domesticated Dog, no matter what his size,
>doesn't stand a chance.
Where I live we're well within earshot of coyote family sing-a-longs each
evening, usually starting up at dusk. We occasionally spot them trotting along
while we're sitting out our deck, or see them aside the roads into town.
I've lived in this town since 1973 and the coyote population growth has
outstripped that of the human population. Yet in all that time, there has
NEVER been a documented kill of a family canine by coyotes, and there have
been fewer than a dozen documented attacks on the two sheep farms in town, and
they always have taken spring lambs - never the full grown woollies.
In contrast, virtually EVERY year there have been documented kills of lambs
and full grown sheep, farm fowl, as well as deer, by packs of "domesticated"
dogs.
Thus I'm much more concerned about roaming dog packs than worried about
coyotes - who are often blamed but not often proven guilty.
>It was the first thing our new neighbors warned us of when we moved in. Watch
>your dogs, don't leave them out unprotected until you get your fence up.
>And I won't even comment on your dastardly remark on toys and miniature breeds.
>Just beware of Chihuahuas driving around looking for Taco Bells....
LOL! Well, that sounded suspiciously close to being a comment about my remark,
but I'll let it slide ;^)
Cheers.
/daytripper
daytripper
>You are so right to natter away at this rude dude (dudess?) , Kathy! Coyotes do run in packs
>.... I remember the thread on this NG last year about this very subject. Daytripper must be a
>city dude or dudess to utter such nonsense.
>
>Nedra from Missouri ...
"I remember the thread from last year"
Is that as close as you've ever been to an actual coyote?
LOL!
(Ooops! Sorry - that was rude. Or rudess ;^)
fwiw, I'm about as far from being a "city dude or dudess" as most folks would
like to be. Not that it should matter (although it'd be nice to not have to
use Dixie Cups(tm) and string to connect to an ISP, dammit!)
/daytripper (aka "The Rude Dude or Dudess", if it serves your needs)
K30a
personal dislike of
miniature/toy breeds that might actually be targeted by coyotes) I won't engage
in dueling with metaphors.
What I said was quite specific.~~
Oh, not fair....
~~And that's about all I have to say on that.~~
But regardless, have computer, will natter at you anyway.
Extreme rarity?
Only toys and minature?
Around here coyotes hunt in packs. Domesticated Dog, no matter what his size,
doesn't stand a chance.
It was the first thing our new neighbors warned us of when we moved in. Watch
your dogs, don't leave them out unprotected until you get your fence up.
And I won't even comment on your dastardly remark on toys and miniature breeds.
Just beware of Chihuahuas driving around looking for Taco Bells....
jan jordan
>outstripped that of the human population. Yet in all that time, there has
>NEVER been a documented kill of a family canine by coyotes,
If that is so, I think you need to dig a little bit deeper into the
research of your local area. Or, maybe dog isn't quite your area coyotes'
taste. ;o) ~ jan
jan jordan
>I dont worry about the "gov'ment" in D.C., I am more worried about the one
>trying to micromanage my daily life, the one that wants to tell me what I
>can do on my property even when I am being a responsible person.
>Ingrid
Can agree with you there. Here they're talking about licensing cats...
Okay, roaming cats do bother some people, but why should those who have
expensive house cats with litter boxes need to pay a license fee to support
animal control when it's the guy without pets complaining? I think it
should be a fee everyone contributes too, not just the pet owners.
Oh dear, heading way, way, way off topic.. let's see, can I pull it back?
Why yes, it's time God started paying into the plan to license all these
fish eating critters with wings. ;o) ~ jan
Derek Broughton
I've asked you twice to quote, obviously you have no idea how to
behave in a newsgroup. I've told you I don't agree with shooting
herons. If you had spent any time here you'd know that I have a
regular heron visitor and I haven't done _anything_ to discourage
it, other than to let the dogs chase it off.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Heron habitat is not
being lost. Of course wetlands are being reduced. So what?
Herons like coyotes, foxes, raccoons, etc, are _increasing_
populations (at the expense of other creatures) because they are
comfortably coexisting with people.
Goodbye.
Plonk
Derek Broughton
>
> >I dont worry about the "gov'ment" in D.C., I am more worried
about the one
> >trying to micromanage my daily life, the one that wants to
tell me what I
> >can do on my property even when I am being a responsible
person.
Ack! Where's Ed? I think he just had a heart attack...
Sounds like something you two might be able to agree on :-)
Vernon Olson
dr-...@execpc.com wrote:
> Making laws against obnoxious behavior wont even slow down the truly
> irresponsible and obnoxious ... they just ignore the laws. However, it
> does penalize the vast majority of responsible people, taking their freedom
> (often on their own property) away if they chose to follow the "rules".
> Worse yet, as more of these laws are passed (none are ever removed), people
> become less likely to obey when they dont know about them, see them
> ignored, unenforced and when they know that people just across some
> boundary arent being limited in a similar manner.
> Rules are made by those who want to avoid having to make decisions, or
> want to avoid confronting and/or dealing with the problem people.
> There is almost never a consensus by the majority of residents for these
> laws. Most of the time, somebody in a position to make a looney law gets
> their nose out of joint by a neighbor and push thru a law. Like a neighbor
> parks an old rusty RV next door, puts up an ugly fence, has a yapping dog
> next door,etc, so they pass a law.
> I dont worry about the "gov'ment" in D.C., I am more worried about the one
> trying to micromanage my daily life, the one that wants to tell me what I
> can do on my property even when I am being a responsible person.
> Ingrid
> Good for you Ingrid. You are absolutely right, well maybe except for the
> part about not worrying about the gov. in D.C. :-)
vern
Vernon Olson
dr-...@execpc.com wrote:
> Aside from Brett and a few others that raise pet quality fish, the
> aquaculture industry is producing food fish. And aquaculture is
> undoubtedly the most environmentally friendly food production industry on
> earth. The conversion of plant material to meat is somewhere around 1.5
> lbs to 1 lb of fish. There is nothing else even close. Aquaculture does
> not remove fish from lakes and streams, it does not accidently net
> porpoises. It doesnt pollute like industries, or even like paper mills.
> It does put a lot of fish into small constructed ponds.
>
> OTOH, geese and ducks are protected species, except during hunting season.
> They have adapted so well to farmers fields and suburban backyards that
> they are now a pest and a health hazard. Herons and other fish predators
> are booming, mostly as a result of predation on the increasing aquaculture
> industry in the US. They have become a pest. Why should there be a
> hunting season for geese, but not a hunting season on fish predators or at
> least allow farmers to protect their farms?
> Ingrid
Boy! Your'e on a roll today.
Derek Broughton
news:19991214190657...@ng-ff1.aol.com...
>
what his size,
> doesn't stand a chance.
Not only that, the damned things are _smart_.
One person I knew with an Aussie sheepdog had it lured out into
the field by one coyote, then two others came in to cut of her
retreat. She only made it back home slightly ahead of the
coyotes.
And I don't know about your area, but coyotes are not native to
my neighborhood. Coyotes have only moved east of the prairies
since we eliminated wolves. So I should feel a great deal of
sympathy for them?
K30a
Dear Daytripper,
We are far afield from the lone heron being more valuable than Brett's pond of
very beautiful koi (after culling).
And you will only concede that a coyote will rarely kill a dog.
(Though I have a beagle, that at 2am this morning, when she was practicing her
death rattle, I would offer up for an experiment.)
But you will admit that many beloved cats become coyote dinners.
Is the wild coyote's life more valuable than the pet cat's?
I guess what I am getting to here is my discomfort and unease with your
original statement.
One - that one life is more precious than another's life
and how that ties in with....
Two - that agriculture is subject to these increasing opinions that all
wildlife is good and the farmer is bad.
Those are the fears that your statement provoked.
We live in an area where wild salmon are being pitted against agriculture,
industry and water rights. Very touchy issue around here.
And every year we head up to the family farm (yes, there still are family
farms!) for harvest. Herons don't bother my brother-in-law but the Wildlife
Service gave him permission to shoot several elk out of season that were
trampling one of his fields.
Rich M
what?" This sentiment speaks volumes. Herons are shallow waders
perfering wetland tpe habitat. Fish use wetlands as nursery's for there
young, on a more mundane note wetlands filter groundwater run off
keeping the aquafirs clean. It ridicoulous to even try to argue the
merits of Wetland habit when people like you say "so what"! I'm glad you
don't see fit to commit an illegal act for the sake of your easily
replaced pet fish. If YOU had read the entire thread you would know the
POACHERS my comments are aimed at. Since they suggested poaching as a
solution and a few others chimed in in agreement I posted my feelings on
this deploreable suggestion in a language that a poacher could
understand. I'm sorry you took offense but in your own sentiment - so
what?
daytripper
thoughts:
>Dear Daytripper,
>
>We are far afield from the lone heron being more valuable than Brett's pond of
>very beautiful koi (after culling).
Indeed, you've driven this bus quite a way from it's origin ;^)
btw: "Culling" is such a sanitary term - much easier to live with than:
"Some koi are more valuable than others, and the less valuable are killed."
>And you will only concede that a coyote will rarely kill a dog.
Actually, I didn't "concede" at all - I made the statement. It would be your
task to "concede" or refute it.
>(Though I have a beagle, that at 2am this morning, when she was practicing her
>death rattle, I would offer up for an experiment.)
A curious statement, given where this thread has roamed. You couldn't possibly
be saying that "my beagle is far less valuable than my lab's", eh?
>But you will admit that many beloved cats become coyote dinners.
I don't recall using the word "beloved", and as I'm a wild bird fancier, don't
get me started about cats.
>Is the wild coyote's life more valuable than the pet cat's?
Oh, geeze, here we go again...
Jan, you come up with these constructs time and time again and expect me to
validate them - or fuel your suspicions - for you? With all due respect, if
you're looking for a true debate, how about sticking to what is actually said?
>I guess what I am getting to here is my discomfort and unease with your
>original statement.
I'm beginning to wonder if you even remember where this all started...
>One - that one life is more precious than another's life
>and how that ties in with....
>Two - that agriculture is subject to these increasing opinions that all
>wildlife is good and the farmer is bad.
Again, a construct of yours that results from extending a simple statement far
beyond the context in which it was provided...
But as long as you're going to "go there" anyway, let's review:
Apparently, some koi are more precious than others, and the latter are
summarily killed; and some dogs are more precious than others, etc...
Discuss?
>Those are the fears that your statement provoked.
From all appearances, the position "I value herons more than high-priced pet
goldfish" strikes fear in your heart because you repeatedly try to extend that
statement to cover a whole host of concerns that I, conversely, never said
anything about.
I'm sorry, but I take no responsibility for your angst in this case.
>We live in an area where wild salmon are being pitted against agriculture,
>industry and water rights. Very touchy issue around here.
Indeed. And having lived in the Pacific Northwest (Lilliwaup - when the human
population there was under 60) for a number of years, I am quite familiar with
anadromous specie issues and riparian zone issues. I have thoughts about
those, too (eg: remove the four Snake River dams, ban acid pit mining, ban
grazing in riparian zones and raise the grazing leases on the rest of public
lands, ban riparian zone logging in national parks and forests, etc) that'd
probably curl your hair...
>And every year we head up to the family farm (yes, there still are family
>farms!) for harvest. Herons don't bother my brother-in-law but the Wildlife
>Service gave him permission to shoot several elk out of season that were
>trampling one of his fields.
And you offer the above without comment?
Incredible! I provide a single simple sentence weighing my comparative
valuation of a specific wild animal species verses farm-bred store-bought high
priced goldfish and invoke a prosecution, but you stick this thing in - a
comparison of value between a living species verses inanimate crops - as a
closer without offering your own take on it?
Whew!
Even as this thread grows curiouser and curiouser, I'm not interested in
ranging so far from the simple genesis of it, so I'm begging out. But have fun
on your travels, wherever you're going...
The last word is yours for the taking.
Cheers.
/daytripper ("The Rude Dude or Dudess" ;^)
Rich M
From <szp...@wi-net.com> "Barbs Mail"
You don't sound like a guy with a pond. I bet if deer were eating the
shrubs in your yard and your garden even though you had a fence you
would call the game warden to shoot some of them. szplit --
Wrong... I have a lovely pond with stocked Goldfish. I also have Deer
and your right, they do feed on the Junipers and Cedars in my yard.
Shoot them? LOL! I don't know how you could have possibly ascertained
that from MY posts! In fact I ENCOURAGE them to feed in my yard, along
with the Foxes and Owls that eat the Rabbits, the Herons and Kingfishers
that eat the Goldfish, the Snakes that eat the Frogs etc. If I ran
outside with my shotgun every time something was eating I'd have a yard
full of dead animals! Unlike some of the others on this list who are
disgusted by the creatures of the wild (i.e. no prettier sight than a
Heron that hung itself in my pond net), I have a deep respect for all
things wild. I bet the offending listers also have golfcourse type
yards, bug zappers, and chop down anything that tries to grow. I spoke
out (admittedly rather harshly) against people who suggested and
supported an illegal act - POACHING - all for the sake of there easily
replaced pet fish. I apologize for sounding offensive but when dealing
with poachers you have to speak in a language they understand.
Regards,
Rich M
K30a
The Native American tribes have many stories about Coyote and his antics, The
Trickster.
The desert behind our house is being developed and I see coyotes trotting along
around the tractors, great jack rabbit hunting since the tractors came along.
I wonder what kind of songs they will have for us on the 22nd when the full
moon is supposed to look very big and bright?
Vernon Olson
versus a landowner or animal owner protecting his property. Maybe I mis
interpret what you are saying.
vern
Rich M wrote:
--
Derek Broughton
> Not exactly sure how long coyotes have been around here, as
long as I have ;-)
>
> The Native American tribes have many stories about Coyote and
his antics, The
> Trickster.
>
> The desert behind our house is being developed and I see
coyotes trotting along
> around the tractors, great jack rabbit hunting since the
tractors came along
Just because they have legends doesn't actually mean they had
coyotes - I heard just yesterday that the Haida on the Queen
Charlottes (between Vancouver Island & the Alaska Panhandle,
though Kathy would know that) have a Wolf figure in their
mythology - though there were never wolves on their islands. I
think coyotes are probably native to your area, but not the
coastal side of the mountains.
nedra101
Where did they come up with the animal if not somewhere in their habitat? What I mean to say is...
if the animal did not exist in their environment, how did they know to use it in their legends?
Was the legend transported in their trek after crossing over the land bridge? Was it absorbed
into their own mythology as a result of the wars with other Indian tribes? I am of American
Indian descent.... and now you have this American Indian wondering about alot of things???
Nedra Crow -----> Seneca and Cherokee Indian tribes
Nedra's Ponds:
www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836/
"Derek Broughton" <dbrou...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:DUZ54.198442$5r2.4...@tor-nn1.netcom.ca...
K30a
Sending the German Sheperd sized Bullfrog with a keg of Washington White Wine
around his neck to Chicago to revive Ed!
jan jordan
>On 15 Dec 1999 14:44:45 GMT, k3...@aol.comDESPMER (K30a) offered these playful
>thoughts:
>
>>K30: We are far afield from the lone heron being more valuable than Brett's pond of
>>very beautiful koi (after culling).
>
>Daytripper: Indeed, you've driven this bus quite a way from it's origin ;^)
<Snipping> all the stuff I had nothing to do with till this came up and
Daytripper said and I quote:
>Jan, you come up with these constructs time and time again and expect me to
>validate them - or fuel your suspicions - for you? With all due respect, if
>you're looking for a true debate, how about sticking to what is actually said?
>
>> K30 said: I guess what I am getting to here is my discomfort and unease with your
>>original statement.
>
>Daytripper replied: I'm beginning to wonder if you even remember where this all started...
Daytripper, you can't even remember who you're replying to, so who are you
to ask this question?!!!!!!!!!!!! Sheesh!
If you're going to debate at least figure out who you're debating with. I
hate getting drug into these things. I, quite frankly can get into enough
trouble all on my own, thankyouverymuch!!! ~ jan
K30a
I have not seen an answer yet.
Should I be bristling, ready to jump into the fray?
Am I being credited with Jan's writing?
Just for the record.
This all started with somebody wanting to shoot a heron for eating his fish and
somebody calling the other somebody that person an insentient being.
I was wondering if the insentient label maker had been in the Battle of Seattle
but was afraid of stirring up a WTO debate amidst the bored winter ponders.
The fact is you can't shoot a heron unless you want to run the risk of paying
the consequences. Consequences just caused a local Chief of Police to exit his
job here locally and he is still tied up in court.
Call your local Fish and Wildlife Representative if you are really having a bad
time.
You can actively hate herons, rush out the door and jump up and down at them,
abuse them verbally and shake your fist at them but you can not ruffle their
feathers.
Personally I enjoyed the heron's visits to my pond, drama, excitement, thrills!
I called Jan on the phone and whispered, "There is a heron by my pond."
Jan sensibily answered, "Why are you whispering? There's a hen in your
backyard?"
The heron is invited back for all the reproduced goldfish he can handle, he
just has to leave Thing Two, Humphrey, Goldfinger, The Sushi Brothers and
friends alone.
jan jordan
>Did DayTripper answer me?
>I have not seen an answer yet.
>Should I be bristling, ready to jump into the fray?
Well when you do see it, do let him know (has to be a him, only men get the
names wrong)<beg> Jan does not start with a K! ;o)
>Am I being credited with Jan's writing?
Just the opposite. Can you see anything even faintly similar in the letters
J A N and the letter/number combo K 3 0? He left your ID line right at the
top (as I have above) so why would he mix us up?
>You can actively hate herons, rush out the door and jump up and down at them,
>abuse them verbally and shake your fist at them but you can not ruffle their
>feathers.
Surely I can swap one with my broom? More then likely it will fly away with
one of my cheapo $3.99 deck chairs over it's head. Hmmm, maybe this is why
their not visiting me. They take one look at all that plastic on the deck
and think twice about landing? ~ jan, that's jan... JAN... as in J + AN <--
the quiet one about this thread. ;o)
K30a
reads it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Daytripper wrote ~~ On 15 Dec 1999 14:44:45 GMT, >>k3...@aol.comDESPMER (K30a)
offered
these playful
thoughts:
> >Dear Daytripper,
>>We are far afield from the lone heron being more valuable than
Brett's pond of
>>very beautiful koi (after culling).
>>Indeed, you've driven this bus quite a way from it's origin ;^)
>> btw: "Culling" is such a sanitary term - much easier to live with
than:
>> "Some koi are more valuable than others, and the less valuable are
killed."
Nah, kill, toss under a tree, grind up for bass food. Doesn't bother me a bit,
just sounds so much more koi-ish and professional to say cull.
>>And you will only concede that a coyote will rarely kill a dog.
>>Actually, I didn't "concede" at all - I made the statement. It
>> would be your task to "concede" or refute it.
I disagree, shall we set English teachers at 50 paces and fire?
>>(Though I have a beagle, that at 2am this morning, when she was
practicing her
> >death rattle, I would offer up for an experiment.)
>>A curious statement, given where this thread has roamed. You
>>couldn't possibly
>>be saying that "my beagle is far less valuable than my lab's", eh?
You try living with the death rattle at 2am and see what you think about the
beagle vs. the labs. Since she has been practicing the death rattle for the
last 9 years I am not too worried. The vet calls it reverse sneezing.
> >But you will admit that many beloved cats become coyote dinners.
>> I don't recall using the word "beloved", and as I'm a wild bird
fancier, don't
get me started about cats.
>>Is the wild coyote's life more valuable than the pet cat's?
>> Oh, geeze, here we go again...
>> Jan, you come up with these constructs time and time again and
>> expect me to
>>validate them - or fuel your suspicions - for you? With all due..respect, if
>> you're looking for a true debate, how about sticking to what is
>> actually said?
First off I am not Jan. I am K30.
I wanted an answer.
You are not willing to answer.
>>I guess what I am getting to here is my discomfort and unease
with your
>>original statement.
I do, but I already answered that in another post when Jan got ticked off at
you for taking her to task for something I said.
>One - that one life is more precious than another's life
>and how that ties in with....
>Two - that agriculture is subject to these increasing opinions
that all
>wildlife is good and the farmer is bad.
>> Again, a construct of yours that results from extending a simple
>> statement far
>> beyond the context in which it was provided...
All I wanted was an interesting discussion she wailed!
>> But as long as you're going to "go there" anyway, let's review:
>> Apparently, some koi are more precious than others, and the latter
>>are summarily killed; and some dogs are more precious than others,
>>etc...Discuss?
Nope.
>>From all appearances, the position "I value herons more than
>> high-priced pet
>> goldfish" strikes fear in your heart because you repeatedly try to
>> extend that statement to cover a whole host of concerns that I,
>>conversely, never said
>> anything about.
So, I wanted a discussion to take up some time in the cold ponding season.
>>I'm sorry, but I take no responsibility for your angst in this
case.
Oh, for heaven's sake!
to be continued.... have run out of room
daytripper
>On 16 Dec 1999 04:59:23 GMT, k3...@aol.comDESPMER (K30a) wrote:
>
>>Did DayTripper answer me?
>>I have not seen an answer yet.
>>Should I be bristling, ready to jump into the fray?
>
>Well when you do see it, do let him know (has to be a him, only men get the
>names wrong)<beg> Jan does not start with a K! ;o)
>
>>Am I being credited with Jan's writing?
>
>Just the opposite. Can you see anything even faintly similar in the letters
>J A N and the letter/number combo K 3 0? He left your ID line right at the
>top (as I have above) so why would he mix us up?
LOL! Ooops! My Bad.
Can't explain it, must've been a brain-cramp. Maybe your writing styles are
similar? I dunno.
Mea culpa. Maxima mea culpa!
But who to apologize to? Both? OK. Sorry to both of you!
/daytripper
(ps: don't leap to conclusions about gender ;^)
jan jordan
>LOL! Ooops! My Bad.
>
>Can't explain it, must've been a brain-cramp. Maybe your writing styles are
>similar? I dunno.
Jan replied: I'll take that as a compliment that my writing style has
vastly improved. (Hey, even DH didn't mark up the Xmas letter as in years
pass. He was impressed and said so.)
>Mea culpa. Maxima mea culpa!
>
>But who to apologize to? Both? OK. Sorry to both of you!
>
>/daytripper
>
>(ps: don't leap to conclusions about gender ;^)
HA! Like stop me. ~ jan exclaimed.