Koi Exploding?
Dean Mevis
to Aremonas problems. I just had a relatively new Koi
suddenly start keeping to itself, and then within a few
days "expanded" about 50% in size (diameter). When I
finally pulled it out to look at it, its eyes were
bulging too. No other external problems. I assumed
major internal malfunction and 86'd the fish.
Any idea what this was?
I just treated for Flukes a few weeks ago hoping to
prevent Aremonas problems, and now this.
Any idea why I have lost 5 fish in the last 8
months (about 1 every other month). Please don't respond
with questions about water quality, food, crowding, etc.
They are perfect.
What do you think about a good stiff pond treatment of
Pertassium Permangenate to clear things out?
D/E van Ryswyk
5 days at 2-4 ppm 1tsp. per 600 or 1000 gallons (i do 1 tsp. per 600
gal) you most definitely have a bacterial problem ie: bloating = Dropsy,
bulging eyes = Dropsy and/or Sepsis all of these things are bacteria,
you need to feed an antibacterial food for 14 days minimum, get some
"Romet" feed it's the best, do the P.P treatments then salt your water
to a minimum of .3% = 3 pounds per 100 gallons (i have done .6% to treat
bacteria) Do you know if you have or had Flukes ? Flukes is one of the
number one things responsible for Aeromonas outbreaks, as long as your
fish have parasites you'll never get this under control. You can email
me for more info if you like.
Dayleen
jan jordan
questions as everything is <<Perfect>>. <beg> ~ jan
On Sat, 20 Nov 1999 04:15:45 GMT, dr-...@execpc.com wrote:
>What did you use for flukes? How do you know you got flukes? What kind of
>flukes? Do you have alkaline water? What color are the gills?
>How long was the new fish quarantined? any problems during quarantine? how
>was the fish moved into the pond? what were the temp diff between
>quarantine and pond?
>What is the temp of your pond now?
>Ingrid
>
>de...@REMOVEmevis.org (Dean Mevis) wrote:
>>After loosing my 4th Koi (in the last 7 months) a few ago
>>to Aremonas problems. I just had a relatively new Koi
>>suddenly start keeping to itself, and then within a few
>>days "expanded" about 50% in size (diameter). When I
>>finally pulled it out to look at it, its eyes were
>>bulging too. No other external problems. I assumed
>>major internal malfunction and 86'd the fish.
>>Any idea what this was?
>>I just treated for Flukes a few weeks ago hoping to
>>prevent Aremonas problems, and now this.
>>
>>Any idea why I have lost 5 fish in the last 8
>>months (about 1 every other month). Please don't respond
>>with questions about water quality, food, crowding, etc.
>>They are perfect.
>>
>>What do you think about a good stiff pond treatment of
>>Pertassium Permangenate to clear things out?
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>dr-...@execpc.com in the Frozen Tundra zone 5 sorta
>List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
>for care of goldfish go to http://puregold.aquaria.net/
>Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
TriGhost
wrote:
>Now, Ingrid, can't you follow directions, he said don't respond with
>questions as everything is <<Perfect>>. <beg> ~ jan
Hhmm....remind me to never say everything is perfect... ;-) <weg>
John
"Ad astra per aspera"
"A rough road leads to the stars"
Dean Mevis
> How do you know you got flukes? What kind of
> flukes?
> Do you have alkaline water? What color are the gills?
> How long was the new fish quarantined? any problems during quarantine? how
> was the fish moved into the pond? what were the temp diff between
> quarantine and pond?
> What is the temp of your pond now?
> Ingrid
Derek Broughton
news:MPG.129f9f21b...@news.slctnet.com...
>
> I just treated for Flukes a few weeks ago hoping to
> prevent Aremonas problems, and now this.
Really? Why would you expect treating for Flukes (an external
parasite) to have any success in preventing Aeromonas? From
lowering general stress? (oops, sorry, three questions)
> Any idea why I have lost 5 fish in the last 8
> months (about 1 every other month). Please don't respond
> with questions about water quality, food, crowding, etc.
> They are perfect.
In that case, the fish are all still alive. You wouldn't dream
of going to a doctor and telling him to diagnose your problem
without asking any questions, why would you expect a newsgroup
(which contains some pretty expert people but not a single
veterinarian to my knowledge) to solve your fish problem without
asking.
So, tell us what perfect water parameters you have measured. And
I respectfully submit that you can't _know_ your water parameters
are perfect if you don't know the alkalinity. If you've measured
pH, when have you measured it?
--
Derek (www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond)
rec.ponds FAQ http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/faq.html
You can't jail a free man, the best you can do is kill him. -
Heinlein
Dean Mevis
> > prevent Aremonas problems, and now this.
>
> Really? Why would you expect treating for Flukes (an external
> parasite) to have any success in preventing Aeromonas? From
> lowering general stress? (oops, sorry, three questions)
No. As I have recently learned from Koivet and other
sources, Flukes are the most common reason for Aeromonas
problems. The Flukes bite into the fish causing an
"opening" in the fish. The fish is then infected by the
Aeromonas that are always present in ANY pond.
>
> > Any idea why I have lost 5 fish in the last 8
> > months (about 1 every other month). Please don't respond
> > with questions about water quality, food, crowding, etc.
> > They are perfect.
>
> In that case, the fish are all still alive. You wouldn't dream
> of going to a doctor and telling him to diagnose your problem
> without asking any questions, why would you expect a newsgroup
> (which contains some pretty expert people but not a single
> veterinarian to my knowledge) to solve your fish problem without
> asking.
Water quality (problems) may explain 90% of the problems
encountered by the typical pond owner. But they DO NOT
explain all of them. Statistically speaking, people in
this forum would be correct to ask questions about water
quality. I have made similiar posts previously and
received all of these water quality related replies.
While I DO APPRECIATE the replies, I have checked, and I
have had local pond-care professionals check, my water
quality. Water quality has consistently been PERFECT!
While I am no expert, I have a good understanding of the
Amonia-to-Nitrite-to-Nitrate cycle. In southern Ca. the
PH and alkalinity are high and constant. My pond is
lightly loaded, and my filter system is well developed
and overdesigned. I perform weekly water changes. I
vacuum the (smooth) pond bottom every week. I feed the
most expensive food money can buy. etc., etc.
My comment about not asking about water quality was to
say that I have been asked this question over and over
and over and over. And I have check the water quality
over and over and over and over. I am not an expert,
but neither am I a beginner. I would like to entertain
some other hypothesis at this point.
>
> So, tell us what perfect water parameters you have measured. And
> I respectfully submit that you can't _know_ your water parameters
> are perfect if you don't know the alkalinity. If you've measured
> pH, when have you measured it?
Ammonia = Zero
Nitrite = Zero
Nitrate = Zero
Salt = 0.01%
PH = 8.0 to 8.5
Oxygen = Not measured, but I turn over the complete pond
volume *** 3 times an hour *** over 3 water falls.
Alkalinity = O.K. you have me there. I haven't checked
it in quite a while. However, my understanding is that
with a pond with a stable/high PH, this is not that
important as I never have a PH "bounce".
Again. I am VERY appreciative of the help. I hope that
I don't sound like a know-it-all because I certainly do
not know it all. But you can only check water quality so
many times in so many ways. Any new ideas on how to
check water quality?
Any new theories? At this point, I would entertain an
Alien Abduction proposal.
Derek Broughton
>
> As I have recently learned from Koivet and other
> sources, Flukes are the most common reason for Aeromonas
> problems. The Flukes bite into the fish causing an
> "opening" in the fish. The fish is then infected by the
> Aeromonas
Thanks - I hadn't heard that before, but it makes sense.
Bacterial infections commonly start at an existing wound.
> > So, tell us what perfect water parameters you have measured.
And
> > I respectfully submit that you can't _know_ your water
parameters
> > are perfect if you don't know the alkalinity. If you've
measured
> > pH, when have you measured it?
>
> Ammonia = Zero
> Nitrite = Zero
> Nitrate = Zero
> Salt = 0.01%
> PH = 8.0 to 8.5
> Oxygen = Not measured, but I turn over the complete pond
> volume *** 3 times an hour *** over 3 water falls.
>
> Alkalinity = O.K. you have me there. I haven't checked
> it in quite a while. However, my understanding is that
> with a pond with a stable/high PH, this is not that
> important as I never have a PH "bounce".
You're right - if the pH is stable, your alkalinity should be
fine (actually vice versa - you want your alkalinity up to keep
your pH stable). That's why I wanted to know "when" you measure
pH. what does pH = 8.0 to 8.5 mean? 8.0 in the morning, 8.5 in
the evening? You can't get more exact on your test? 8.5 one
week, slowly lowering to 8.0 the next? A swing of 0.5 over the
course of the day IS a bounce. It shouldn't kill any fish, but
it is stressful. If you just can't tell the difference between
8.0 & 8.5 you need a better test kit.
> But you can only check water quality so
> many times in so many ways. Any new ideas on how to
> check water quality?
I'll leave that to Rod :-) There are _many_ ways...
Alice Hughes
Rod Farlee
(aside) yes, here's some numbers for water supplied by the
Metropolitan Water District of Southern California:
pH 8.02 to 8.09 (average 8.06)
KH 104 to 127 (average 114) mg/l CaCO3
GH 198 to 298 (average 242) mg/l CaCO3
salt 124 to 172 (average 150) mg/l NaCl
The alkalinity is quite adequate, and has little chance of being
diluted by rainfall in S CA over the course of even a La Nina
year, because of high summertime evaporation.
- Rod