Build Pond Using EPDM Liner Covered With Mortar
JEFF GIMBEL
Christi, TX. She has dug the hole and placed an underliner in the hole. She
is considering pouring mortar mix over the liner as outlined in "The
Complete Pond Builder" Has anyone used this method, any comments or
suggestions regarding this method ?
Thank you,
Jeff
KC
exactly get all the info from this NG I was seeking, but who's complaing,
its all free advice anyway. At anyrate me and my neighbor just drained and
tore down his pond, he got sick of trying to address the issue of exposed
PVC liner. Here is AZ all bets are off as to how long that stuff will last
exposed to our sun. We decided to go with mortar over PVC to give the pond
a more natural, yet finished look. Maybey you can benefit from our mistakes
and experience:
1) Really, Really watch what kind of chicken wire you buy, you'll save
mortar in the long run if you get the flexible stuff. The stiff kind has a
lot of "Memory" and its hard to get it close or flush with the liner. In
other words when you bend it you want it to stay put.
2) Put on your mortar thick on the first pass, you need to make it heavy
enough so the chicken wire does'nt "pop-up", otherwise you'll be troweling
over and over trying to cover up the wire
3) we used plastic mesh where strength was'nt a issue and the mortar could
be relativley thin (less than 1"), any continuous flat area where you will
not walk is fine (plastic does'nt bend into shape and stay). We did this so
we did'nt have to worry about covering exposed metal. This is not actually
nessasary, but we had some plastic mesh so we used it.
4) I'm told stucco mix (w/fiberglass) may be the way to go, this sounds
solid considering our houses here are stucco'd and it goes on thin, stuff
is pretty strong (you can make your own, just make the mix richer in lime
and add the fiberglass.)
5) We filled the pond halfway so the liner was stretched, then mortared the
exposed parts, this way you won't have to worry about the weight of water
pulling on your liner once mortared in place, besides once you drain it to
mortar the rest, the liner will pretty much already be flush with the
contours of the pond
6) I'm betting sealing it with paint will be easier than trying to leach
out the lime (all efforts to find out the finer points on how to do this
have been fruitless). Home Depot sells pool paint for 17$ a gallon, it can
be tinted I'm told (its blue otherwise)
Hope this helps, hopefully a real expert will post and tell you whats
up.....KC
JEFF GIMBEL <mini...@earthlink.net> wrote in article
<7836jv$13t$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
Steve Blessing
Yea i agree with Jan sounds neat...curious though...what do you plant to use
tor treat the concrete to prevent leaching that's fiish friendly and what
about is the cost? Thje products I'm aware of seem awfully high $$...:=(
thanks
steve
www.greenvista.com
JEFF GIMBEL wrote in message <7836jv$13t$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
Jan Jordan
wrote:
>One of our customers is building a 90ft. x 37ft. x 5ft. pond in Corpus
>Christi, TX. She has dug the hole and placed an underliner in the hole. She
>is considering pouring mortar mix over the liner as outlined in "The
>Complete Pond Builder" Has anyone used this method, any comments or
>suggestions regarding this method ?
> Thank you,
> Jeff
>
Hi Jeff,
My comment is, WOW! I think that's a great way to go, if the cement cracks
the liner is there to stop the leak and for the most part the cement
protects the liner. Hope we hear from someone who did do it this way.
~Keep 'em Wet!~
~jan~ Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
Remove Z to E-mail
See my ponds thru the seasons:
http://home.earthlink.net/~alanjordan1/jjspond/index.html
IAN
> 6) I'm betting sealing it with paint will be easier than trying to leach
> out the lime (all efforts to find out the finer points on how to do this
> have been fruitless). Home Depot sells pool paint for 17$ a gallon, it can
> be tinted I'm told (its blue otherwise)
Hi KC... A school in my area successfully sealed its pool with ordinary water
based acrylic house paint. The trick was to dampen the concrete with water
before applying the first coat, this sucks the initial layer of paint into the
concrete.
I'm currently making a concrete pond, but I'm using a high-tech cement based
sealer before I use the school's painting trick.
Regards Ian Gill Westland New Zealand
Glenn Rieker
huge amount of challenges down the road for yourself......The cost
associated with using concrete would be very large for both materials and
labor...and if you are using rebar with correct spacing the costs would go
through the roof and if you aren't using rebar....the cracks will appear
within a few weeks in a space that big no matter how much of a Concrete
master your mason is, since you really can't use expansion joints every 50
feet and if you did that would defeat the whole purpose of the concrete
over the epdm liner.
Let suppose the concrete works...even with your warm texas weather....(just
"minor" changes from 90 during the day to 50 at night will cause that amount
of concrete to crack somewhere). If it did work you would either have to
seal the concrete (more $) as the lime will leach out for years to come.
Of course if you don't expect to place any plants or fish in this pond...the
lime would be "irrelephant". On the other hand, if you intend to stock
plants and fish the client will be forever treating....maintaining the pond.
My suggestion is to go with the EPDM liner.......take the money you would
spend on concrete and future maintenance (read: headaches) and invest in a
ton of plant material for the pond.....and go on vacation for a few months
:)
--
Glenn Rieker
BS Landscape Architecture
Remember.....Life is a game don't live it on the bench!
http://www.gardenhaus.com
JEFF GIMBEL wrote in message <7836jv$13t$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
Dave
with cement/concrete.
When the concrete cracks it will create a situation where the entire
concrete structure is in the water ?submerged at this point, the
concrete becomes saturated with water. This may cause a lime problem. It
would also compound the cracking problem in areas subject to ground
frost and, in general, reduce the structural integrity of the concrete.
It also seems like there would be a problem with the liner material
being punctured by the concrete due to normal settling and any movement
after construction.
Peace
Dave
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KenCo
>
> One of our customers is building a 90ft. x 37ft. x 5ft. pond in Corpus
> Christi, TX. She has dug the hole and placed an underliner in the hole. She
> is considering pouring mortar mix over the liner as outlined in "The
> Complete Pond Builder" Has anyone used this method, any comments or
> suggestions regarding this method ?
> Thank you,
> Jeff
I dont think that book was meant for a 3300+ sq ft. pond.
mortar mix? nope,no strenght as a stand alone pour.
err.. try at least 8-12" of re-bar(welded) reinforced concrete.
a 90'x37'x5' pond is going to have some serious
weight pushing down/out.
an avg. depth of 3' makes it about 75,000 gals.
after the hole is dug it also should be rolled
w/ a 1 ton roller minimum unless you have very hard packed soil.
--
Ken Arnold,
KenCo Fish & Supplies Pond and Aquarium fish,
Shipping plants/fish etc. a specialty
Imported & domestic Koi,Goldfish,Orandas,
Tropicals,exotics, Piranhas etc.
http://www.kencofish.com mailto:ke...@kencofish.com
Pam Ingle
Ness called "Water Gardening Basics".
Check with Van Ness about ordering the book.
Also, be sure to use a 100% acrylic paint.
Pam
JEFF GIMBEL wrote in message <7836jv$13t$1...@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...