sump vs pond pumps
Debbie Hall
azk...@my-deja.com
because it says "pond" on it. Sixteen years in the pet industry and I
can tell you, the minute you put something in the pet aisle the price
goes up. It's the same thing. Pet related items have a huge markup
and generate a lot of money for retailers, which is not a bad thing but
if you can get the same for less, why not?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Gale Pearce
"Debbie Hall" <ha...@gallatinriver.net> wrote in message news:n75w5.8165$2z6.1...@news-east.usenetserver.com...
Andy Hill
>okay I am totally lost now, I was using a regular small sump pump from local
> farm store to run my small filter and water bubbler in my first little 150 gal pond
> now we are lining our new 2000 gal. pond and waterfall and have been looking
> for pumps at lowes in the "pond" area those pumps pump less water per hour
> and are twice the price while three isles over sump pumps are more gph and
> less pricey. which are the way to go in your opinion's
>
faster than a true pond pump. Second, check the power draw -- it's often well
worth the $$$ to spend extra for a pump with low power draw, and sump pumps are
notorious power pigs. Third, in some cases it's a simple case of "what the
market will bear", as some "pond pumps" (notably a lot of Little Giant's line)
are pretty much indistinguishable from sump pumps.
Dan D.
"Debbie Hall" <ha...@gallatinriver.net> wrote:
> okay I am totally lost now, I was using a regular small sump pump
from > local farm store to run my small filter and water bubbler in my
> little 150 gal pond now we are lining our new 2000 gal. pond......
snip......
You need to compare power useage.
You can easily spend several times the price of the pump
in electric bills.
If you get an effecient pump, it will pay for itself several
times over in power savings.
Pond pumps usually last longer and as mentioned, most sump pumps
contain oil and when the seal wears out, it will barf oil all over
the top of your pond.
Peace!
Dan D. Louisville KY
Craig
while pond pumps are. You might have great luck with a sump pump, I
can't say from experience you won't. But sump pumps are designed for
on/off duty while pond pumps are designed for constant running.
Pond pumps are also often designed with fish in mind too, so that oil
filled pumps and oil seals are avoided. Sump pumps I believe are also
more expensive to run. Sump pump manufacturers don't worry to much
about 'cost to run' since they are usually, again, used for intermittent
service. Pond pump manufacturers will often make cost per day a selling
point since they are run 24x7.
I'm sure there are folks out there that will swear there is no
difference and maybe there isn't if you get the right brand of sump
pump.
Craig
> Debbie Hall wrote:
>
> okay I am totally lost now, I was using a regular small sump pump from
> local farm store to run my small filter and water bubbler in my first
> little 150 gal pond now we are lining our new 2000 gal. pond and
M.R. Daniels
> I would go with the pond pumps. The sump pumps are not made to go 24x7
> while pond pumps are. You might have great luck with a sump pump, I
> can't say from experience you won't. But sump pumps are designed for
> on/off duty while pond pumps are designed for constant running.
I ran a sump pump last year and was horrified to walk out one morning and
see thick oil all over the surface of the water. Took me several days and
many bags of fiberfil to mop it up.
MR
michelle browning
sump pumps are *designed* to be run on an occasional, as-needed sort of schedule. pond pumps are designed for 24-7 use. and the first time a sump cracks and you have funky oily sheen on top of the pond, you will wish you had purchased something else. my first pump was a sump, and after it had been in the pond for several weeks, there was a thin oil sheen on the water. and after it died (only 2months of use! and it was all rusted!), i got a beckett pond pump. after several water changes and all, there is no more oily sheen on the pond, and hasn't been since i got rid of that sump.
michelle
Gale Pearce wrote:
Sump pumps are generally oil filled and use a lot more hydro to run them, as well they aren't meant to be run continuously - pond pumps are meant to run 24/7 and will usually last longer Gale :~)
"Debbie Hall" <ha...@gallatinriver.net> wrote in message news:n75w5.8165$2z6.1...@news-east.usenetserver.com...okay I am totally lost now, I was using a regular small sump pump from local farm store to run my small filter and water bubbler in my first little 150 gal pond now we are lining our new 2000 gal. pond and waterfall and have been looking for pumps at lowes in the "pond" area those pumps pump less water per hour and are twice the price while three isles over sump pumps are more gph and less pricey. which are the way to go in your opinion's
Paul
Three months in the life of a pond pump is nothing! You will have a
different outlook toward both sump pumps and Little Giant pumps in general
in three YEARS. Guaranteed! You will probably change your mind on the day
that you go out to your pond and wonder where all that oil came from.
As for your electricity bill having 'only gone up $6.00 a month', that
means nothing, unless the pump is the only thing drawing power through your
meter. Most people's bill will vary more than $6.00 from one month to the
next. To get the real idea of your pump's cost to operate, multiply the
pump's wattage x 24hrs x 30 days x your electric rate. $6.00 per month is
20 cents per day or slightly less than a penny per hour. Here in Oregon
where our 'juice' is about 5 cents per kwh that will buy you about 200
watts of power in that hour. Check the label on your pump and your electric
rate and do the math. There is no sump pump anywhere that will lift 3000
gph to 5 ft 24hrs a day for $6.00 per month, even at 5 cents per kwh.
Sorry, but it just isn't true.
Debbie: Save yourself a lot of grief and money, get a true pond pump.
Paul
"Brian J. Rohan" wrote:
> I purchased a Little Giant E sump pump, and have been using it in my
> pond for almost three months now, without so much of a hint of a
> problem, and my electric bill has only gone up $6.00 a month. I am
> lifting the 3,000 gph about 5 foot. The Little Giant 6E sump pump, had
> the identical casing, and motor as the Little Giant 6E pond pump. Only
> two differences 1.) the sump pump has an auto kill switch (in case the
> water drops too low!!) and 2.) the sump is $70 less than the pond pump.
>
> Brian
Don
>
> I cant agree more with azkalel. I went to the local pnd shop and
> looked at soem water treatments, just to see for myself if pet suplies
> are more expensive. OUCH!! There was a container of Ph up about 10
> oz, for $8. The ingredients listed 1 - bicarbonate of soda!!! Good ol
> Arm and Hammer sells theres for alot less in any local grocery store!!.
> I also looked a a product for tail rot. listed ingrediantes for the 12
> fl oz bottle 95% inert ingredients, 5 % melaluca!! thats 8/10 of an
> ounce. Went to a local distributor of melaluc and for 12 dollars got
> 4oz of the same stuff!! So now that I look back at my pump purchse of
> the Little Giant sump pump model 6E for $97, versus the Little Giant
> pond pump at the pond stores here for $170 I am glad I bought the sump,
> and for only taking $6 a month to run, it would take a long time for the
> pond pump to save me enough energy to pay for itself, that is as long as
> the sump pump holds up long enough
>
> brianI agree with Paul
Derek Broughton
>
> okay I am totally lost now, I was using a regular small sump pump from
> local farm store to run my small filter and water bubbler in my first
> little 150 gal pond now we are lining our new 2000 gal. pond and
> waterfall and have been looking for pumps at lowes in the "pond" area
> those pumps pump less water per hour and are twice the price while
> three isles over sump pumps are more gph and less pricey. which are
> the way to go in your opinion's
Sump pumps are generally not rated for continuous use, leading to
earlier burnout, and use horrendous amounts of electricity. Also, for a
150 gallon pond any sump pump probably moves way more water than you
need - so where's the loss if the pond pump moves less gph? For strange
reasons, very few retail outlets appear to carry good large-capacity
energy efficient pumps, but they're out there and worth the extra
bucks.
For a 2000 gallon pond, a 1200 or 1800gph Supreme should be just fine,
not terribly expensive, cost much less to run and last much longer than
a sump pump (with no risk of leaking oil).
--
Derek (www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond)
rec.ponds FAQ http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/faq.html
Brian J. Rohan
HERRONME
was lots cheaper than the POND pumps and the electric bill is not that much
higher. My hubby says we don't have oil in ours...it's some kind of sealed unit
thingy.
We are planning on running it all winter. It makes me so mad that because
something is marked specifically for POND use it is triple the price it should
be.
O.K. you sump pumpers....who runs theirs 24/7 and has made it thru the northern
winters running it too???
Eileen Zone 5
SE Michigan
Dreading winter.....poop!!!
Brian J. Rohan
Brian J. Rohan
drawing the water 5 foot head height, not 30 or 40 so let's just say I
was to max out the pump 24 -7
10 amps *110 volt = 1100 watts /1000 = 1.1 kwh @4.8 cents per hour
kwh(Clark PUD rate Vancouver WA) = 5.28 cents and hour *24 *30 = $38.
Once again I am only running the pump 5 foot head height, which is not
running putting much of a draw on the pump.
Paul
The amount of power that a pump of this nature draws is NOT a function of
how high the water is being raised. It is a function of how much water is
being moved. The larger the VOLUME of water that is moved, not how high
it's being lifted, the more power that is consumed by the pump. You said
your pump draws 10 amps. If that is the draw to move your 3000 gallons per
hour, you're really getting hosed. Typical "pond" pumps that move the same
volume of water will usually draw 1 1/2 to 2 amps! One-fifth the draw of
your pump. I'm glad you did the math on the cost to run your pump. $38
per month is a long way from the $6 you thought it was costing you and the
$7.20 a 'pond' pump would use Just the savings in electricity alone will
quickly make up for the higher cost of the "pond"pump.
I don't really mean to get into a war here. Debbie asked for some opinions
on pond vs sump pumps and I couldn't help notice the assumptions that you
were making, so I had to comment.
Remember,
1. Your sump pump WILL fail. That's a fact. Most likely, when it does, it
will puke its oil filling into your pond. It's never happened to me, so
others will have to tell you how much fun they've had cleaning the mess
up.
2. The 'pond' pump is a LOT cheaper to run, your own math proves this. Pay
back for the higher cost of a 'pond' pump is a matter of a few months.
3. Pond pumps are designed to run 24/7. They will simply last longer.
Paul
Brian J. Rohan
move a given weight a given height. Water is weight, to move the water
higher requires more energy, hence more electric comsumption in the form
of more amperage! No pump requires as much energy to raise a given pgh
5 foot high as it does to raise it 40 foot high, there is not as much
pressure pushing back on the impeller (creating load on the motor)
through the hose at 5 foot as there is at 40.
brian
Aqtline
>them, as well they aren't meant to be run continuously - pond pumps are =
>meant to run 24/7 and will usually last longer
This may be true, but I used a 1250 gph Little Giant sump pump when I first put
in my pond three years ago. It ran 7/24/365 for almost three years and then
the seal on the motor housing leaked and that was the end of that! It gave me
really good service over all, though, I think. It had more power than the
1250gph Beckett that I recently purchased ..... but it was a pretty high energy
user. The price of the Beckett pond pump and the price of the Little Giant
sump pump was about the same ($79). I hope that the Beckett will give me three
years of service!
Judy from California
Rod Farlee
>to move a given weight a given height. Water is weight, to move the
>water higher requires more energy, hence more electric comsumption
>in the form of more amperage!
Sounds logical, but this is not how single-phase electrical motors work.
The assumption that efficiency is independent of load does not hold.
(Three-phase motors do act as you describe.)
In general for single-phase pumps, there is a "design head" at which
they operate at highest efficiency. Efficiency falls off slowly below that,
and rapidly above it. Here's an example, typical of moderately efficient
single-phase pumps.
Danner Supreme MD7 Mag-Drive 700 (Nursury Pro 650) pump
head/ft gph watts PP/w V/fpm KP/w P/w Efficiency
0 700 70 0.0 1141 12.4 12.4 18%
1 670 67 2.1 1092 10.8 12.9 19%
2 560 64 3.5 913 6.3 9.8 15%
3 510 60 4.8 831 4.8 9.6 16%
4 480 57 6.0 782 4.0 10.0 18%
5 420 54 6.6 684 2.7 9.3 17%
6 390 51 7.4 636 2.1 9.5 19%
7 360 48 7.9 587 1.7 9.6 20%
8 290 45 7.3 473 0.9 8.2 18%
9 220 41 6.2 359 0.4 6.6 16%
10 130 38 4.1 212 0.1 4.2 11%
11 60 34 2.1 98 0.0 2.1 6%
12 30 33 1.1 49 0.0 1.1 3%
13 0 33 0 0 0 0 0
The first three columns are from the manufacturer's spec sheet.
The remaining columns are calculated:
PP/w is the potential power in watts, raising the water.
V/fpm is the water velocity though the 1/2" MNPT pump housing
outlet, and
KP/w is the kinetic power in watts, accelerating the water
to this velocity. Although often neglected, it is significant
at high flow rates.
P/w is the total (potential + kinetic) hydraulic power output.
Efficiency is the overall power efficiency in percent.
Calculations:
PP: 1 watt = 318 ft-gal/hr
KP = mv^2/2g where
m=mass, v=velocity, g=gravity=32.174ft/sec^2. So:
KP/w = gph*v*v/36850700 where
v/fpm = 0.32*gph/A
A/sqin = 0.79*(ID/in)^2
These are readily derived from the following:
1 watt = 44.25 ft-lbf/minute
water: 7.5 gal/cu ft, 8.345 lb/gal.
Moral: if you want efficiency, select a pump whose design head is
near or slightly higher than your actual head, and size the pipe
large enough that its dynamic head (friction) is negligible.
p.s. Typical sump pump has "design head" of over 20 feet, and
efficiency of about 10%. Typical pond pump has a design head
of 4 to 8 feet, and will get 15 to 30% efficiency there. Result is
3 or 4 times higher efficiency for low-head operation.
- Rod
Paul
What you have said would , at first glance, seem to be accurate. But when
one really thinks about it, the theory falls apart. Imagine a pump trying to
raise water to a height of 40 ft, but the pump has a max head of 35 ft. The
water will rise to 35 ft in the pipe and stop. No water will flow, right?
Well when this happens, that is the water stops moving, even though it's
standing 35 ft high in the pipe, the power being consumed by the pump will
drop to very near zero! I know at first thought that this doesn't seem
right, you've got a column of water being held 35 feet in the pipe, it must
take energy to do it, but it doesn't. The water is static, and requires no
energy to remain that way. Power is required to MOVE the water. If you've
got some old physics book, check them out. Also look at the performance
specs on pumps, the power the pump consumes is proportional to the VOLUME of
water being moved, not the head the pump is working against.
Look at http://www.sequencepumps.com/PerfCurves.html As gph goes to
zero, watts goes to near zero, (frictional losses prevent a pump that is
actually running from consuming zero power). A pump uses virtually zero
power to create pressure, which is what creates head. If you had two
identical pumps: #1 pumping 3000 gph at 10 ft head and #2 pumping 3000 gph
at 1 ft head (#2 would have to be valved down or it would pump more that
3000 gph at 1 ft head) they would draw the SAME amount of electricity! The
fact that one is at 1 ft head and the other is at 10 ft has no effect on the
amount of power being consumed.
I hope this clears things up for you.
Paul
Gale Pearce
use whatever amperage or watts it is rated at , regardless how far you pump
it - you will just get less water the farther you "push" it - i.e at a
higher head
Rod where are you when we need you?
Gale :~)
Brian J. Rohan
is (in your best grandpa Simpson voice) EVIL What I do know is this I
have a Little Giant 6E SUMP pump, and it is identical to the Little
Giant 6E pond pump sold in local pond stores. I know that I talked with
several people in the area with similiar size ponds as mine who use the
Little Giant 6 and 8 sump pumps, all of which are oil filled. These
individual have all been running these pumps for 4-8 years. Only one of
these people had a problem with their pumps cracking and leaking. The
cause for this disaster - She used a pump without a float switch, her
pond ran low on water, and pump burned up. All the others have sump
pumps with float switches just in case of a water drop, to shut the pump
off. I also know for a fact that the box for my pump says max draw 10
amps I also know my pump draws a little under 2 amps when pushing the
3000 gph 5 foot high. I also know that the pump I bought was $97. I
also know that the same 6E pump labeled as a pond pump is $200 in this
area. As for how long my pump will last before spewing its oil all
over, I have no idea, but I will try my luck. The track record for
people in my area who use the same pump for extended periods of time is
in my favor, as long as the pump is completely submersed in water.
Brian
Derek Broughton
>
> >Sump pumps are generally oil filled and use a lot more hydro to run =
> >them, as well they aren't meant to be run continuously - pond pumps are =
> >meant to run 24/7 and will usually last longer
>
> This may be true, but I used a 1250 gph Little Giant sump pump when I first put
> in my pond three years ago. It ran 7/24/365 for almost three years and then
> the seal on the motor housing leaked and that was the end of that! It gave me
This is a bit of red herring - it's true that sump pumps are oil-filled
and can blow their seals. But then, so is my energy-efficient pond
pump. In either case, the real trick is to ensure that manufacturer's
service requirements are followed...
Derek Broughton
>
> are more expensive. OUCH!! There was a container of Ph up about 10
> oz, for $8. The ingredients listed 1 - bicarbonate of soda!!! Good ol
> Arm and Hammer sells theres for alot less in any local grocery store!!.
No disagreements there - but did you ever see a recommendation here to
buy pH-up?
> I also looked a a product for tail rot. listed ingrediantes for the 12
> fl oz bottle 95% inert ingredients, 5 % melaluca!! thats 8/10 of an
> ounce. Went to a local distributor of melaluc and for 12 dollars got
> 4oz of the same stuff!! So now that I look back at my pump purchse of
> the Little Giant sump pump model 6E for $97, versus the Little Giant
> pond pump at the pond stores here for $170 I am glad I bought the sump,
> and for only taking $6 a month to run, it would take a long time for the
> pond pump to save me enough energy to pay for itself, that is as long as
> the sump pump holds up long enough
I think you need to investigate your electrical bill more carefully.
The LG 6E sump pump _is_ rated for continuous use (as is the 10E), but
it's a 6AMP draw. You can't run that for $6 a month anywhere in North
America. At cheap Ontario rates, that's 600W (very generous!) * 24h *
30 * US$0.05/kWh = US$21.60/month.
You also need to consider not the difference between the cost & usage of
an LG sump pump versus the same LG pond pump but between the LG and an
efficient pump.
My waterfall designer tried to sell me an LG 10E. I bought a Tsurumi
pond pump for about CDN$30 more than the LG, it uses 1/5 of the power
(but admittedly only pumps a bit more volume than your 6E). Very cost
effective.
Derek Broughton
You don't appear to understand the physic involved in running a pump.
If anything, it would actually be drawing most power at ZERO head, not
30'. You also shouldn't calculate based on 10 amps, since that's
starting draw. Given where you are, my calculation should be pretty
close - so it's costing you in the neighborhood of $250 a year. That
buys a lot of "pond" pump.
Brian J. Rohan
running the "pond" pump, as well as the added cost of teh "pond" pump
Derek Broughton wrote:
Rod Farlee
>I also know my pump draws a little under 2 amps when pushing the
>3000 gph 5 foot high.
The manufacturer's spec sheet, at http://www.littlegiant.com
says it consumes 750 watts and a minimum rated head of 5 feet.
That gives it a net hydraulic efficiency of 6%.
At your low local rate of 5.5 cents/kWh, 750 watts costs $30/month,
$361/year, and if it lasts 8 years as you hope, will cost you $2890.
(At the average US electrical rate of 8.6 cents/kWh, that'd be
$47/month, $565/year, $4520 for 8 years.)
An efficient (not Little Giant) pond pump will do the same job for a
third that cost. Purchase cost is dwarfed by operating cost in
pumps of this capacity. This pump will cost you 29 times it's
purchase cost to operate over it's (hoped for 8 year) lifetime.
- Rod
Craig
Got a whole bunch more information then you ever expected eh? *LOL*
After studying all this info I expect you to be able to expound on the
differences between single and triple phase pumps, the effect of head
height on efficiency ratings, and head height vs. gpm.
You can go on tour and give special talks at pond clubs!! :-)
I do hope all this stuff was helpful and WHATEVER way you go you'll be
happy and be able to sleep at night. Cause after all... if you don't
sleep well, you made the wrong choice!!
Craig
Derek Broughton
Not at all - this was just a follow-up to the post I made that actually
compared usage. Your pump, by Rod's figures, uses more than 3 times
the power of my pump (Tsurumi, OMU2) which moves more water than yours.
750W for the LG vs. 215 for the Tsurumi. I have a catalog that puts the
power rating of yours at 620 - still almost 3 times mine. Total cost
for my pump, US$239 from Stoney Creek Equipment in Michigan. I'm not
sure how much you can get an LG6E for (CDN$229 locally - so at best I'd
guess you can get it for half the price of my Tsurumi), but it's not
enough cheaper to justify that power draw.
btw, the LG6E has a 1.5" FNPT outlet - the Tsurumi has a 2". The larger
outlet doesn't make a big deal of difference if you put a 2" adaptor on
it, but it encourages you to think big.
Dragon Koi
Look at those Sequence pump charts and you see the more work performed the more
power consumed. And once the max workload is reached the amount of energy to
sustain it remains about the same. As the pump approaches max head the energy
consumed is being used to create pressure not to move water. The pressure must
be sustained to keep the water at max head.
Dave Holland
-/-
http://www.DragonKoi.com
mailto:Da...@DragonKoi.com
Paul wrote:
Rod Farlee
>performed the more power consumed.
Actually, power drawn falls off slowly, above the design point.
Let's take the Sequence 1000 4 K4H3.111, which closely matches the
performance of the Little Giant 6E.
head/ft flow/gpm watts efficiency
5 53 160 31%
10 42 175 45%
12 37 185 45% <--- design point
15 31 189 46%
20 10 150 25%
22 0 120 0%
This pump is over 4 times more efficient than the Little Giant 6E pump,
which draws 750 watts to move the lift the same volume of water.
At average US rate of 8.6 cents/kWh, it saves $423/year.
- Rod
jan jordan
>We are planning on running it all winter. It makes me so mad that because
>something is marked specifically for POND use it is triple the price it should
>be.
>
>O.K. you sump pumpers....who runs theirs 24/7 and has made it thru the northern
>winters running it too???
>
>Eileen Zone 5
>SE Michigan
Eileen,
What is your purpose for running the pump and I assume filter all winter?
If you have koi it will be very stressful for them to fight a current when
they are half asleep and getting no feed. Regardless of fish type the less
stress in winter the more will survive it.
Like I wrote in an article on winter for the koi club:
"Running the waterfall & filter all winter keeps a hole open in the ice,
unless it dams up and then runs out of the pond. Oops! Continuing the same
summer flow through winter also makes the fish, who are in a dormant state,
fight the current. Not to mention the possibility of having to go out and
mess with the filter in sub-zero weather if something should go wrong. This
chance seems to increase as the temperature decreases, and usually happens
just as you're doing your last check of the evening in your flannel PJs."
Ain't this so rec.ponders? ;o) ~ jan
See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/
~Keep 'em Thawed~
Tri-Cities, WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website
jan jordan
>>I have a Little Giant 6E SUMP pump...
>>I also know my pump draws a little under 2 amps when pushing the
>>3000 gph 5 foot high.
>
>says it consumes 750 watts and a minimum rated head of 5 feet.
>That gives it a net hydraulic efficiency of 6%.
>
>At your low local rate of 5.5 cents/kWh, 750 watts costs $30/month,
>$361/year, and if it lasts 8 years as you hope, will cost you $2890.
>(At the average US electrical rate of 8.6 cents/kWh, that'd be
>$47/month, $565/year, $4520 for 8 years.)
>
>An efficient (not Little Giant) pond pump will do the same job for a
>third that cost. Purchase cost is dwarfed by operating cost in
>pumps of this capacity. This pump will cost you 29 times it's
>purchase cost to operate over it's (hoped for 8 year) lifetime.
>- Rod
YEeoow ZzzAA Rod, don't have to remind me not to get in an argument with
you. :o)
Brian, take heart, a few of us oldies have LGs we now use only for a water
change and emergency back up. One thing I wish to caution you about, as the
owner of an 8amp LG pond pump ($89/1995) in my case, don't plug anything
else into the same line. If you're lucky the GFI will blow, if not your
lines might melt, ours did. (Course that could be... because I kept
resetting the GFI till it wouldn't work no more... shhhhh, don't tell the
main man.)
Also there use to be a guy on here that preached that all LG pumps needed
to be throttled 2/3rds (or was it 1/3rd? rtotman where are you?) else it
was more likely to leak oil. I know mine was severly throttled with a
garden hose and still works today, but only for water changes and draining
containers. ~ jan
See my ponds thru the seasons and/or my filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/
~Keep 'em Oil-Free~
Lynn Parry
Debbie Hall wrote in message ...
Lynn Parry
michelle browning wrote in message <39C148D8...@juno.com>...so true!!!
sump pumps are *designed* to be run on an occasional, as-needed sort of schedule. pond pumps are designed for 24-7 use. and the first time a sump cracks and you have funky oily sheen on top of the pond, you will wish you had purchased something else. my first pump was a sump, and after it had been in the pond for several weeks, there was a thin oil sheen on the water. and after it died (only 2months of use! and it was all rusted!), i got a beckett pond pump. after several water changes and all, there is no more oily sheen on the pond, and hasn't been since i got rid of that sump.
michelleGale Pearce wrote:
Sump pumps are generally oil filled and use a lot more hydro to run them, as well they aren't meant to be run continuously - pond pumps are meant to run 24/7 and will usually last longer Gale :~)"Debbie Hall" <ha...@gallatinriver.net> wrote in message news:n75w5.8165$2z6.1...@news-east.usenetserver.com...okay I am totally lost now, I was using a regular small sump pump from local farm store to run my small filter and water bubbler in my first little 150 gal pond now we are lining our new 2000 gal. pond and waterfall and have been looking for pumps at lowes in the "pond" area those pumps pump less water per hour and are twice the price while three isles over sump pumps are more gph and less pricey. which are the way to go in your opinion's
Lynn Parry
Debbie Hall wrote in message ...
Lynn Parry
Craig wrote in message <39C5115B...@bellatlantic.net>...
Lynn Parry
Paul wrote in message <39C39F1A...@ccwebster.net>...
Derek Broughton
>
> Paul, no offence, but you're talking out of your hat. Think about it. Simon.
Well the details were a little fuzzy, but in essence Paul was quite
correct. As Rod has accurately pointed out, _thinking_ about it just
doesn't work with single phase pumps. Not to worry, it took me a
loooong time to get this straight.
Debbie Hall
kitchenmaid
What kind of prices and gph pumps were you looking at? Could you give some
ballpark figures for each kind, both sump and pond pump? I would be
interested. Perhaps others in the group would like to know? I was told my
pumps may only last 2 years, but they may last more. I have all Little Giant
Pond pumps. Do sump pumps give enough 'lift' for a waterfall or stream? I
know very little about ponding except what my books and this newsgroup have
taught me.
I see my pond as a big Science project/hobby. I say try it. If it fails,
you can tell everyone on the group about your experience and we can learn
from you.
Kitchenmaid aka Az ponder
jan jordan
>To Debbie:
>What kind of prices and gph pumps were you looking at? Could you give some
>ballpark figures for each kind, both sump and pond pump? I would be
>interested. Perhaps others in the group would like to know? I was told my
>pumps may only last 2 years, but they may last more. I have all Little Giant
>Pond pumps. Do sump pumps give enough 'lift' for a waterfall or stream? I
>know very little about ponding except what my books and this newsgroup have
>taught me.
The number one most important way to get the most years out of a
submersible pond pump is to have it last in line after the filter so it is
moving the cleanest water. Muck, sand, baby fish bodies, tend to wear down
the impeller quicker. ;o)
>I see my pond as a big Science project/hobby. I say try it. If it fails,
>you can tell everyone on the group about your experience and we can learn
>from you.
>
But, Kitchenmaid, so many of RPers have had the oil slick, not fun. I was
lucky, but a pond my son is taking care of wasn't so.
She wanted the pond to run 24/7. Prior to that it just ran now and then for
the last 3 years and was mostly a stagnant mosquito breeding ground (no
fish). So son got it going, but realized that time was ticking on that sump
pump. Sure enough, a week later, major oil slick, dead pump. It took a lot
of overflow time to get all the oil off the plants, etc. Now she's running
with a Beckett, gonna cost them a whole lot cheaper in power costs and Home
Depot sells those for the price of most LGs. ~ jan
PS. She also has fish & plants now & compliments too.