GOLDFISH 'BEG' FOR FOOD
Ian Taylor
My goldfish, which I keep in a pond but 'overwinter' indoors in a small
aquarium, are begging for food when anyone enters the room.
I assume this is a 'kneejerk' reaction rather than hunger. I am not feeding
them every day, as when I did, there were 'trails' of excrement which I am
told occurs when fish are overfed and cannot digest all the food given to
them.
They look healthy enough but I am concerned that they are getting enough
food. I feed twice a week, but do not want them to be weak and skinny when
I return them to the pond.
June Oshiro
In article <01bd34b8$9595ef20$LocalHost@threedee>,
Ian Taylor <i...@threedee.force9.co.uk> wrote:
>I assume this is a 'kneejerk' reaction rather than hunger. I am not feeding
>them every day, as when I did, there were 'trails' of excrement which I am
>told occurs when fish are overfed and cannot digest all the food given to
>them.
trails meaning long skinny full of air poops, or thick well to do
poops? the former i read was a sign of not so healthy fish (air
in the system), whereas my fish give off the latter when they are
doing well. maybe try feeding every other day?
-j.
--
"This note is so open to double entendre replies and flames, that you
really shouldn't bother replying." - Robert Methelis
John O'Loughlin
Before we had a pond deep enough to overwinter our fish up here in
New England, we used to bring them in to spend the winter in an
aquarium.
We used to feed our fish every day (and sometimes more than once
each day) because they were always begging for food.
Your question made me rethink why we do feed them and why we stop
feeding them outdoors in the winter.
First, outdoors in the winter. I've been told that when the water
temperature drops below 50 degrees F, the goldfish's metabolism
and digestive system slows down. So much so that if the fish eats
food, it moves so slowly through the digestive system that it can
actually rot. This causes serious and often fatal complications
to the fish. Based upon this, we stop feeding them when the temps
drop below 50 F. At this point, the fish has reduced all activity
to a minimum and its requirements for nutrition and energy are
reduced significantly. During this period, the fish draws energy
from its stored reserves of fat.
Now when we brought them indoors during the winter things were
very different. The temperatures in the house were about 70
degrees F. The water was as warm as the room temperature and the
fish were quite active (notice how energetic they are as they
dance around trying to get you to feed them?). Because their
surroundings are warm, and because they are so active, their
nutritional requirements are also high, IMHO. Also, in my
experience, by feeding them and keeping them in the warmth of our
home, they seemed to keep growing all winter long. Then when we
reintroduced them to the pond in the spring, they were
exceptionally well fortified for life in that environment, and not
just barely existing on the last of their stored reserves.
The one negative thing I noticed was reflected in your post.
Goldfish eat and then discharge wastes into the water. When we
keep them in an aquarium, which is smaller in volume than the pond
they're used to living in, their wastes can easily overcome the
aquarium's ability to maintain good water quality unless we are
prepared to do water changes and keep the filters clean and
effective.
I guess the bottom line for me is that when I keep them in the
house in a 'warm' aquarium, I'd feed them and clean up after them
and watch them grow and enjoy them all winter. Those that I leave
outside in the pond during the winter can not be fed below 50F or
I'd be risking their health.
I hope others will post additional points of view.
Good luck with your lovely goldfish!
On 8 Feb 1998 17:25:39 GMT, "Ian Taylor"
<i...@threedee.force9.co.uk> wrote:
>My goldfish, which I keep in a pond but 'overwinter' indoors in a small
>aquarium, are begging for food when anyone enters the room.
>
>I assume this is a 'kneejerk' reaction rather than hunger. I am not feeding
>them every day, as when I did, there were 'trails' of excrement which I am
>told occurs when fish are overfed and cannot digest all the food given to
>them.
>
>They look healthy enough but I am concerned that they are getting enough
>food. I feed twice a week, but do not want them to be weak and skinny when
>I return them to the pond.
*************************************************************
* John O'Loughlin Bridgewater, MA USA jo...@ici.net *
* http://www.ici.net/customers/johno/ *
* http://www.ici.net/customers/johno/fish.html *
*************************************************************
GTong
In article <01bd34b8$9595ef20$LocalHost@threedee>, "Ian Taylor"
<i...@threedee.force9.co.uk> wrote:
>My goldfish, which I keep in a pond but 'overwinter' indoors in a small
>aquarium, are begging for food when anyone enters the room.
(snip)
>They look healthy enough but I am concerned that they are getting enough
>food. I feed twice a week, but do not want them to be weak and skinny when
>I return them to the pond.
They associate your presence with food and react accordingly.
You can feed your goldfish more than twice a week. Feed two mouthfuls
twice a day as a start. A mouthful is when the fish stuffs its mouth and
pauses to "chew" before stuffing more food in. The key is to keep the
portions small during each feeding. To feed more, feed more often.
In an outdoor pond, they're likely to get food all day from algae and
other things growing in or falling into the pond. They don't have that in
an indoor tank.
--
"Every infinity is composed of only two halves."
(Remove ".out" for my email address.)
Clint Sharp
In article <6bn0lb$9...@news.webspan.net>, June Oshiro
<idle...@orion.webspan.net> writes
>trails meaning long skinny full of air poops, or thick well to do
>poops? the former i read was a sign of not so healthy fish (air
>in the system), whereas my fish give off the latter when they are
>doing well. maybe try feeding every other day?
>
keep him company?) regularly leaves trails with air bubbles. I assumed
it was because he gobbled the food from the surface.
--
Clint Sharp
Kellie
> Help, my 8 inch goldfish (one only in 24 Gal tank, What can I add to
> keep him company?) regularly leaves trails with air bubbles. I assumed
> it was because he gobbled the food from the surface.
> --
> Clint Sharp
First get him a bigger tank, or better yet, a pond! (Don't you already
have one??) Then get him a goldfish buddy. GF do get lonely, believe it
or not. Good luck!
--
Kellie
Gary Pagac
Dr....@pitnet.net wrote:
> The current theory is that fish swallow air at the surface in an attempt to
> either "settle" an upset GI tract (no stomach) or to help move impacted
> food thru their system... start soaking the food and squeezing out the air
> and feed 50% veggies .. solo
In an outdoor pond situation, a simpler reason goldfish/KOI swallow air at the
surface is the lack of disolved O2 in the water. A perfect time for this is a
warm summer morning. There can be a healthy algae growth situation and during
the night, uses up O2. So while algae creates O2 during the day, it goes the
opposite at night. Good thing that goldfish/KOI and catfish can take air
directly to extract O2.
Gary Pagac
Dr....@pitnet.net wrote:
> If they could take in air at the surface directly, then there would be
> no dead koi or goldfish in the situation you describe.
Yes, that's right...they do not die due to lack of O2 assuming the surface is
not frozen, polluted, or made otherwise not attainable.
> occur with low oxygen levels and in toxic situations. But they are at the
> surface because the highest concentration of oxygen is in the surface water
> where their gills are (just below the water level). They are not "air"
> breathers, the air must be dissolved in the water.
Yes, goldfish/KOI and catfish can take O2 from air. It is not their preferred
method of getting O2. Hence, it is not very efficient. I would guess that if
these fish had to breathe air directly for a long period of time, it could lead
to some secondary immune problems. I've never allowed my fish to be in that
situation though. If on a summer morning one sees their fish breathing at the
surface, have a timer turn on a pump about 4am and the problem will be solved.
Clint Sharp
In article <6bsthr$q...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>, Kellie
<Kel...@worldnet.att.net> writes
>
> First get him a bigger tank, or better yet, a pond! (Don't you already
>have one??)
>Then get him a goldfish buddy. GF do get lonely, believe it
>or not. Good luck!
though, how many goldies of this kind of size can I keep in a 3ft tank,
or shouldn't I be keeping the one I have in it?
>
>--
>Kellie
>
>
--
Clint Sharp
Jan Jordan
> If on a summer morning one sees their fish breathing at the
>surface, have a timer turn on a pump about 4am and the problem will be solved.
Better yet, don't turn the pump off in the summer at all.
~Keep 'em Wet!~
jan/3-Cities WA Zone 6.5
Remove Z to e-mail
Windsong
Agreed. I leave my large airstones or powerheads running all year long -
day & night. I don't filter my pond as such since it stays crystal clear
all year long (due I think to the plantload).
--
Carol So many Goldfish.... No more room!
}<(((o> }<(((o> }<(((o>
***WANTED: Meaningful overnight relationship.***
~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*
Steve Johnson
I have noticed that my goldfish have poop trails in the pond. It is quite
mild this winter and the recent highs have been in the 50's with lows just
barely below freezing. I haven't feed them so any food is from foraging the
string algae which has been quite prevalent this winter. The Koi are still
mostly inactive but are moving about a bit more in the milder temperatures.
Steve Johnson
http://lornet.com/~alside/pond.htm
Littleton, CO - Zone 5
GTong wrote in message ...
Gary Pagac
Dr....@pitnet.net wrote:
> Fish that are "piping" at the surface are dead very fast if the conditions
> are not corrected. They cannot "breathe" air. We cannot breathe "air"
Okay, whatever works for you.
Gary Pagac
If goldfish/KOI are opening their mouths at the surface of the water, and it's a
summer morning, i say the solution for it is to turn on your pump around 4am for
20 minutes to aireate the pond. My 20+ years of experience with pond fish tells
me this works. With my fish, this was caused from a lack of O2 in the water, so
they had to get it directly from the surface...which they can do, though it's
not very efficient. When this has occurred, there was no other ailment causing
this.
#(*0*)#
What I am wondering is: Why shut your pumps, fountains, bubblers off at
night at all? Why not run them 24 hours a day. In the coldest part of
winter I still leave one small powerhead running on a shelf to keep an
opening in any ice formation and directed so as not to disturb the bottom
layers of water. I have seen no gasping at the surface.
--
Carol So many Goldfish.... No more room!
***How can there be a CIVIL war?***
~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*
Gary Pagac
#(*0*)# wrote:
> What I am wondering is: Why shut your pumps, fountains, bubblers off at
> night at all? Why not run them 24 hours a day. In the coldest part of
I have a 9 Amp pump, this is huge BTW. If i were to keep it running 24/7, i'd
likely have a $300 electric bill.
Jan Jordan
On Mon, 16 Feb 1998 06:17:24 -0800, Gary Pagac <gpa...@gntech.net>
wrote:
>I have a 9 Amp pump, this is huge BTW. If i were to keep it running 24/7, i'd
>likely have a $300 electric bill.
>
Hmmmm, Little Giant I presume? <BG>
Gary Pagac
Jan Jordan wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Feb 1998 06:17:24 -0800, Gary Pagac <gpa...@gntech.net>
> wrote:
>
> >I have a 9 Amp pump, this is huge BTW. If i were to keep it running 24/7, i'd
> >likely have a $300 electric bill.
> >
> Hmmmm, Little Giant I presume? <BG>
Nope -- it's a Flotec and is a submersible sewage/sump pump. It's a bit of
overkill for sure, but i like a lot of water flow since it adds to the falling
water experience. I figured i could buy a Little Giant or Becket type and pay
about $100, or pay $110 for a pump that puts out triple the amount, and can handle
chunks of debris with no problem. I used to have a Becket submersible, but it
didn't have the flow i wanted. Then had a pedestal sump pump, and while it had
the flow i wanted, it was kinda noisy since the motor was above the water. I have
my pump (and sprinklers, lights) under home automation control, so altering the
times it runs is easy.
For three seasons, i run the pump/waterwheel in the morning when i can be outside
hearing it, then in the evening, when i may also be outside. Also have it come on
at 4 am for the potential low oxygen problem. I run that pumped water through the
sand filter about once a week, depending on the algae situation. Knowing that
perfectly clear water isn't the best for fish, i keep it where i can just barely
see the bottom of my three-foot deep pond.
I don't have a pump situation like many folks do. My pump is not in the pond. I
have the water overflow into a leaf catcher, flow 35 feet underground in a 4-inch
pipe to the sump, where the pump is located. This sump is about 15 linear feet
away from the pond, and is 40 gallons. Then it flows out of the pump back to the
waterwheel, to the upper pond, then into the main pond. Getting it to the
waterwheel is a 1.5-inch pipe, just under the ground surface. Hence, it'd freeze
in our -20° F. winters. For this reason, i have a three-season pond.
Normally during winter when all water is frozen over (not this year though), i have
TONS of birds drinking from the slightly opened aireated part of the pond. It's
really cool seeing the ice, air bubbles keeping one part opened, and 20 birds
hanging around for their morning drink. But alas, with this warm non-winter we're
having here in the Northwest, this ain't happening!
Is this more information than you were asking for?
Gary Pagac, Spokane Falls WA
=^*^=
Oh I see... how about getting a small cheap water pump such as a regular
powerhead used on fishtanks? They use a few watts and last for years if
you keep the impeller well clean. Or for the same price (around $15.00) you
can get an air pump and use an airstone all winter - about 10 watts or
less. This will help the water degass and keep an opening in the ice for
very little cost.
--
Carol...... very, very frugal ponder.
}<(((o> }<(((o> }<(((o>
***How many weeks are there in a light year?***
~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*~~*
Gary Pagac
=^*^= wrote:
> Or for the same price (around $15.00) you
> can get an air pump and use an airstone all winter - about 10 watts or
> less. This will help the water degass and keep an opening in the ice for
> very little cost.
Yes, that's what i have running all winter long.
Kellie
> Fish that are "piping" at the surface are dead very fast if the conditions
> are not corrected. They cannot "breathe" air. We cannot breathe "air"
> to cross the cell membrane. These fish are not "lung" breathers. At best,
> they are stirring the surface of the water with their piping to get more
> oxygen in the water. solo
No, they are not lung breathers, but as fish with swim bladders they are able
to use oxygen from the air. A neat evolutionary feat. Of course they can't
get all of their oxygen that way-- just supplemental. It isn't unusual for gf
to suck air on overcast or before and after storms- something about the
barometric pressure, in hot weather, or early in the morning. It is the oxygen
retained in the swim bladder which allows some of them to live a while out of
water after jumping out.
> --
Kellie
My Karma ran over my Dogma. It was a catastrophe.
Now my Dogma's dead and my Karma's out of alignment.
Kellie
> If goldfish/KOI are opening their mouths at the surface of the water, and it's a
> summer morning, i say the solution for it is to turn on your pump around 4am for
> 20 minutes to aireate the pond.
Exactly- or better yet, run it 24 hours.
> My 20+ years of experience with pond fish tells
> me this works. With my fish, this was caused from a lack of O2 in the water, so
> they had to get it directly from the surface...which they can do, though it's
> not very efficient. When this has occurred, there was no other ailment causing
> this.
Yes- this happens in my pond from time to time- it is not fatal- it just means they
are needing some extra oxygen. Surely they could not live this way for a long time,
and adding splashes from your waterfall or fountain will help. Or even insert an
aeriator "stick" bubbler stone thingie... that's the technical name. Even stirring
the surface of the water helps.--
Kellie
> I have a 9 Amp pump, this is huge BTW. If i were to keep it running 24/7, i'd
> likely have a $300 electric bill.
You could spend the $300 on a pump with lower amps, get a smaller supplemental
pump for night time aeriation, OR put the big pump on a timer so it will come on
at 3 or 4 in the am for a while.
Jan Jordan
>My Karma ran over my Dogma. It was a catastrophe.
>Now my Dogma's dead and my Karma's out of alignment.
>
Did you get another-a? And Karma should have had hera license taken
awaya.
jan ;o)
Jan Jordan
>On Mon, 16 Feb 1998 21:29:01 -0800, Gary Pagac <gpa...@gntech.net> wrote:
>Nope -- it's a Flotec and is a submersible sewage/sump pump.
>Using the big snippers..snip..snip
>Is this more information than you were asking for?
>
Gary
Well, it's late, so I sent it to the printer and will read it in my
comfortable rocking chair tomorrow. :)
jan/WA
Zone 7
Remove Z to e-mail
Kellie
> >My Karma ran over my Dogma. It was a catastrophe.
> >Now my Dogma's dead and my Karma's out of alignment.
> >
> But, Kellie, your Dogma was killda last winter, if I remember righta.
> Did you get another-a?
No, it was reincarnated. Since it didn't do much the last lifetime it
had to come back as the same thing.
> And Karma should have had hera license taken awaya.
I know, but it's hard to traverse the cosmic spheres without it.
--
Kellie
Jan Jordan
>> >My Karma ran over my Dogma. It was a catastrophe.
>> >Now my Dogma's dead and my Karma's out of alignment.
>> >
>> But, Kellie, your Dogma was killda last winter, if I remember righta.
>> Did you get another-a?
>
>No, it was reincarnated. Since it didn't do much the last lifetime it
>had to come back as the same thing.
>
>> And Karma should have had hera license taken awaya.
>
>I know, but it's hard to traverse the cosmic spheres without it.
Touche' New Age!
jan/WA
chuck
In article <34E7C16F...@gntech.net>, gpa...@gntech.net says...
>
>Dr....@pitnet.net wrote:
>
>> Fish that are "piping" at the surface are dead very fast if the
conditions
>> are not corrected. They cannot "breathe" air. We cannot breathe "air"
>
>
>
>
all at the top "piping" except the plecos. I have not had a death in my tank
for 4 years. except when Oscar gets hungery.
My tank has:
1 Oscar , 1 foot long
2 Plecos, 1 foot long each
1 Convict, 2 inches
2 Bull head cat fish, 3 inches each
used to have 15 gold fish, they all got eaten!!!!
Jan Jordan
>>Dr....@pitnet.net wrote:
>>
>>> Fish that are "piping" at the surface are dead very fast if the
>>> conditions are not corrected.
>>
>On 23 Feb 1998 19:20:28 GMT, bz...@minot.ndak.net (chuck) wrote:
>I have a 35 gallon tank. At night I turn off the pumps. By morning they are
>all at the top "piping" except the plecos. I have not had a death in my tank
>for 4 years. except when Oscar gets hungery.
So, Chuck, what's the point of torturing your fish by turning off the
pumps?
jan/WA
~ Windsong ~
I find it hard to believe that all those fish even fit in such a small
tank. How can they? Well it takes all kinds I guess.
--
Carol...in zone 6. the elcheapo Ponder
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~separater~~~~~~~~~~~~~~><>
> chuck chortled...
> >I have a 35 gallon tank. At night I turn off the pumps. By morning they
are
> >all at the top "piping" except the plecos. I have not had a death in my
tank
> >for 4 years. except when Oscar gets hungery.