Rubbermaid glue report: Forget Gorilla Glue
Gareee©
great simple waterproof seal though for adding a cap to t a toilet flange..
it fits on, but not waterproof, and I didn't want to glue it, in case I want
to cannibalize parts down the road. A simple wrap of duct tape around worked
great to seal the minute space there.
Thinking of trying hot melt glue, or pvc glue next on the rubbermaid.
Can't really assemble the rubbermaid filter without some gluing/sealing
solution.
--
Gareee
(Gary Tabar Jr.)
Kurt
"Gareee©" <gareee-...@charter.net> wrote:
How about a good silicone glue? (Like aquarium sealer)
--
To reply by email, remove the word "space"
Phyllis and Jim
Tar like substance might do better as it would give a flexible bond.
>
> --
> To reply by email, remove the word "space"
The compression of a rubbery substance is a wothwhile direction. We
have one berm pond with a toilet flange as the exit. It is rather
like a burger: The flange is the outer layer (bread/bun). Then two
layers of EDPM, coated with roofing sealer on either side and between
(lettuce and tomatoes?). Then the plastic (burger in the center). It
repeats on the other side with two layers of EDPM and a flat toilet
ring. The flange and the ring are held together by stainless steel
bolts and washers. The bolts compress the edpm and tar, resulting in
a rather good seal. We have used that technique on the berm pond
drains as well. They are holding well with edpm liners as well.
Jim
RichToyBox
"Gareee©" <gareee-...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:vNedne8rTOP5N8Xb...@giganews.com...
Fast Cure 5200. It is a moisture curing system that goes tack free in about
1 hour and completely cured in 24 hours. It is flexible and has better bond
than silicone. Apply it a little thick, loosely tighten to force some of
the sealant out all the way around the joint. After it has cured, tighten
the screws to force pressure on the material as a conforming gasket.
Gareee©
flanges... idea is to make the hole large enough to just accomodate the end
opening, and have the large part of the flage inside the rubbermaid... and
have one of the wax toiulet gaskets between the flange and the rubbermaid
wall.. with compression, the wax should seal the opening, it's VERY sticky,
so should grip the rubbermaid, and since there will always be water on them,
the temperatures should keep them cool. they are somewhat temperature
tolerant, I believe, and since they are wax, there shouldn;t be any
chemicals to leech out into the pond water.
Seems like a cheap and simple solution, after trying quite a number of
glue/gasket solutions.
If it works, I'll have discovered a neat cheap trick.. if not, I'm no worst
off.
Phyllis and Jim
hardening up and being moved somehow in the depth of winter.
Jim
Ralph & His Clowder
Gabrielle
Gareee©
Just when you think you remember that toilet wax not being "too bad" to mess
with, you use it again and hate the stuff.. LOL Sticky, and nasty.
Good news, it worked flawlessly, from what I can tell. No leaks at all, and
connects are solid.
Might need to add a 4" elbow and line down from the outlet on top.. the
accordion 4" drainage hose/pipe puts more weight on that top flange then I'd
like. idf I do, I'll put a 90 degree elbow on it, and then run the 4" pvc
down th efront, and then put another elbow on it to make it reach the pond
better.
Bad news, is the gorilla glue that looked liek it sealed the 3/4 inch pvc
water inlet didn't.when the rubbermaid filled, it buldged, the gorilla glue
let go, and had a big nasty leak there. that will have to attached
differently. Might look into that aquarium glue that's been mentioned. I
already have shoe goo and silicon sealer.. wonder if it's different from
those?
So I had partial success today. I think when building something liek this,
it's be much better to find something with thicker plastic then a rubbermaid
trash can,.. even the 50 gallon ones have thin walls for attaching fittings.
Kurt
Kurt
Aquarium silicone sealer will handle all temps, always be watertight and
is safe for fish. It's also inexpensive.
~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us
Phyllis and Jim
hardened. It won't bond to the plastic. That is why we went for EDPM
and a tar-like sealer. It can stretch if there is any flex in the
can. Steady pressure on the silicone would work as well, as long as
it did not get moved.
Jim
Gareee©
news:1180310396....@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
So aquarium glue will not bond to the rubbermaid then?
The fitting won't be moved much, but the Rubbermaid does stretch with the
water weight, and since it is a fitting to an external line, I'm sure there
will be some simple occasional stress from cleaning the pond, hooking things
up, and detaching them, and storing the uv filter for winter.
I could use shoo goo (by the Goop people, and put a very generous amount on
both the interior and exterior. another thought, was to put it first on the
pvc pipe itself, so there's already a rubber "gasket" around it, and then
use it ac I described above.. I'd think the goop then would bond well to
itself.
Still considering options before pulling the filler out, and redoing that.
Kurt
"Gareee©" <gareee-...@charter.net> wrote:
> "Phyllis and Jim" <jimandp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1180310396....@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> > The compression would have to be steadily compressed once it is
> > hardened. It won't bond to the plastic. That is why we went for EDPM
> > and a tar-like sealer. It can stretch if there is any flex in the
> > can. Steady pressure on the silicone would work as well, as long as
> > it did not get moved.
>
> So aquarium glue will not bond to the rubbermaid then?
Besides making sure the surface is clean and free of any grease, You
could also roughen the rubbermaid maid surface with sandpaper around
where you want the seal, just to give it a little "tooth".
>
> The fitting won't be moved much, but the Rubbermaid does stretch with the
> water weight, and since it is a fitting to an external line, I'm sure there
> will be some simple occasional stress from cleaning the pond, hooking things
> up, and detaching them, and storing the uv filter for winter.
>
> I could use shoo goo (by the Goop people, and put a very generous amount on
> both the interior and exterior. another thought, was to put it first on the
> pvc pipe itself, so there's already a rubber "gasket" around it, and then
> use it ac I described above.. I'd think the goop then would bond well to
> itself.
Shoe Goo might work also. I've only used it on shoes, though.
>
> Still considering options before pulling the filler out, and redoing that.
--
Phyllis and Jim
With plastic flex, it is likely to come loose from its bond.
Jim
Kurt
But the silicone is designed to be adhesive. I know that cheaper
silicone window seal is easy to peel, but the quality stuff sticks
pretty well. Aquarium sealer is designed for pressure on the glass (from
the inside, too).
Phyllis and Jim
> But the silicone is designed to be adhesive.
Good point. Our aquaria have the silicone holding well on glass.
Indeed, we have had to shave it off to clear the glass!
We have not had as good a result with plastics. They have to be
really clean and the bond really good. I wouldn't want to run with it
without compression to hold things steady.
Maybe someone can get with a manufacturer to talk about bonding and
flex.
Jim
Derek Broughton
>
>> But the silicone is designed to be adhesive.
>
> Good point. Our aquaria have the silicone holding well on glass.
> Indeed, we have had to shave it off to clear the glass!
Silicone is a really odd adhesive. If you ever read the package or tube,
you'll see "not to be used below the waterline". It isn't a very strong
adhesive, and it functions _really_ poorly when wet. The interior of the
glass join in an aquarium _isn't_ wet - but if you somehow allow water in
there, the joint failure can be catastrophic.
> We have not had as good a result with plastics. They have to be
> really clean and the bond really good. I wouldn't want to run with it
> without compression to hold things steady.
Nope. If you flex silicone it's _never_ going to hold.
--
derek
- Unless otherwise noted, I speak for myself, not rec.ponds.moderated
moderators.
Gareee©
news:6o0ui4-...@pointerstop.ca...
> Phyllis and Jim wrote:
>
>>
>>> But the silicone is designed to be adhesive.
>>
>> Good point. Our aquaria have the silicone holding well on glass.
>> Indeed, we have had to shave it off to clear the glass!
>
> Silicone is a really odd adhesive. If you ever read the package or tube,
> you'll see "not to be used below the waterline". It isn't a very strong
> adhesive, and it functions _really_ poorly when wet. The interior of the
> glass join in an aquarium _isn't_ wet - but if you somehow allow water in
> there, the joint failure can be catastrophic.
>
>> We have not had as good a result with plastics. They have to be
>> really clean and the bond really good. I wouldn't want to run with it
>> without compression to hold things steady.
>
> Nope. If you flex silicone it's _never_ going to hold.
Hmm.. so then I'm still left with a glue dilemma.. only thing I can still
think of is a goop/shoe goo "sleeve" on the inlet 1" pvc pipe, and then shoe
goo applied both inside and out as well.
UV seems to be doing OK so far, but without being able to remove the
suspended particles, visibility still sucks.
Gareee
(Gary Tabar Jr.)
Hal
<gareee-...@charter.net> wrote:
>> Nope. If you flex silicone it's _never_ going to hold.
>
>Hmm.. so then I'm still left with a glue dilemma.. only thing I can still
>think of is a goop/shoe goo "sleeve" on the inlet 1" pvc pipe, and then shoe
>goo applied both inside and out as well.
Bulkhead fitting with flange on both sides of the
bulkhead/liner/container wall. Insert silicon seal allow to cure,
then tighten, or compress the silicon seal.
May be more expensive, but it will save time and energy.
Regards,
Hal
Gareee©
"Hal" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:9buq5392fp1hsb3sv...@4ax.com...
Not sure where I'd get the parts for this..they don;t really have a lot for
this type of setup in the local Lowe's, keeping in mind this is for either
3/4 inch or 1" pvc pipe.
G Pearce
>> Bulkhead fitting with flange on both sides of the
>> bulkhead/liner/container wall. Insert silicon seal allow to cure,
>> then tighten, or compress the silicon seal.
>>
>> May be more expensive, but it will save time and energy.
>
> Not sure where I'd get the parts for this..they don;t really have a lot
> for this type of setup in the local Lowe's, keeping in mind this is for
> either 3/4 inch or 1" pvc pipe.
Hi Gary - Hal is right - Bulkhead fittings are the answer, for any thickness
of plastic or rubber, just make sure you tighten it - I use it on 45 gal
plastic barrels for bio-filters - no leaks - they come from 3/8" up to 2"
and maybe larger - go to a farm supply store that has supplies for sprayers
for fields - up here in Canada a 2" fitting is about $15 Can - smaller ones
are less - I would never use pvc fittings and any kind of glue - Bulkheads
around here are used on up to 5000 gal (and maybe larger) tanks with no
problem - my filter has been running for 12 yrs - no leaks
Gale :~)
Gareee©
news:f3l66...@enews2.newsguy.com...
> Hi Gary - Hal is right - Bulkhead fittings are the answer, for any
> thickness of plastic or rubber, just make sure you tighten it - I use it
> on 45 gal plastic barrels for bio-filters - no leaks - they come from 3/8"
> up to 2" and maybe larger - go to a farm supply store that has supplies
> for sprayers for fields - up here in Canada a 2" fitting is about $15
> Can - smaller ones are less - I would never use pvc fittings and any kind
> of glue - Bulkheads around here are used on up to 5000 gal (and maybe
> larger) tanks with no problem - my filter has been running for 12 yrs - no
> leaks
Ok, so bulkhead fittings are metal? I have a farm supply store here,
(fortunately).. are they also available at Lowe's? I did something similar
with the toilet flanges.. I attached them from the inside, and used the
regualr wax seals for them. I added long bolts, and used LARGE washers on
each side, tighten down,. with silicon between them and the rubbermaid to
add just a little more seal to them. Those look to be working great.
I'll see if I can find the bulkhead fittings tomorrow if possible. If they
are heavy, might that be an issue for the plastic to support?
Doug Brown
I entered bulkhead fitting and got 454,000 hits. This one might even be
what you're looking for; http://www.truetex.com/bulkhead.htm.
Bulkhead fittings are usually made of various plastics and can be found
on-line or at swimming pool suppliers and some specialty plumbing supply
shops.
"Gareee©" <gareee-...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:NbudnfyhdaLL08Pb...@giganews.com...
Derek Broughton
"Bulkhead" fittings are exactly what they sound like - fittings for
providing a seal through marine bulkheads. So you get them from places
that sell parts for boats.
G Pearce
> (fortunately).. are they also available at Lowe's? I did something similar
> with the toilet flanges.. I attached them from the inside, and used the
> regualr wax seals for them. I added long bolts, and used LARGE washers on
> each side, tighten down,. with silicon between them and the rubbermaid to
> add just a little more seal to them. Those look to be working great.
>
> I'll see if I can find the bulkhead fittings tomorrow if possible. If they
> are heavy, might that be an issue for the plastic to support?
The ones I use are plastic - I don't think Lowes would carry them as they
are used mainly for industrial applications, not home repair
No they aren't heavy, no extra support required. I used them on a square
Rubbermaid container for a bio-filter for a small pond for a customer (3/4"
inlet and 2" return fitting). The container was a square ~ 28"X20" and 24"
deep - the ones they have in Walmart (blue)
Gale :~)
cat daddy
An Improvised PVC Bulkhead Fitting for Liquid Storage Tanks
http://www.truetex.com/bulkhead.htm
"...plastic electrical conduit fittings are the secret ingredient to
improvising a bulkhead fitting."
Rubbermaid Commercial Products
5050-12 Stock Tank Drain Plug Kit , $20.40
http://tinyurl.com/2l542w
http://www.rcpworksmarter.com/rcp/products/detail.jsp?categoryID=507&subcategoryID=555&rcpNum=5050-12&subcategoryID_rcpNum=555_5050-12&categoryID_rcpNum
=507_5050-12&categoryID_subcategoryID_rcpNum=507_555_5050-12
Gareee©
>news:135sn1f...@corp.supernews.com...
> This really isn't that tough, and google should be your friend.
True, but as you just said, you got TONS of hits.. and after trying about 8
different ways to attach fitting to the rubbermaid, I don;t want to screw it
up, and I don't want to deal with leaks and tearing the whole thing apart a
week from now.
It's not like there's a "build your own pond filter" website, with specs,
part numbers and order info.
I went through similar issues last year building the smaller filter, and not
once was adding a bulkhead even mentioned.
After seeing th epics the last poster posted of what they look like, it all
makes good sense now, and looks doable. With any luck, the local farm supply
store will have them. otherwise, I'll have to order parts over the web.
~ jan
wrote:
>I could use shoo goo (by the Goop people, and put a very generous amount on
>both the interior and exterior. another thought, was to put it first on the
>pvc pipe itself, so there's already a rubber "gasket" around it, and then
>use it ac I described above.. I'd think the goop then would bond well to
>itself.
>
DS said he roughed up the surface of the Rubbermaid before applying. ~ jan
Derek Broughton
>>Doug Brown" <doug....@sasktel.net> wrote in message
>>news:135sn1f...@corp.supernews.com...
>> This really isn't that tough, and google should be your friend.
>
> True, but as you just said, you got TONS of hits.. and after trying about
> 8 different ways to attach fitting to the rubbermaid, I don;t want to
> screw it up, and I don't want to deal with leaks and tearing the whole
> thing apart a week from now.
>
> It's not like there's a "build your own pond filter" website, with specs,
> part numbers and order info.
There isn't? Too bad, I know there used to be some (OK, perhaps not so far
as "order info" but with specific part availability).
cat daddy
> GareeeŠ wrote:
>
> >>Doug Brown" <doug....@sasktel.net> wrote in message
> >>news:135sn1f...@corp.supernews.com...
> >> This really isn't that tough, and google should be your friend.
> >
> > True, but as you just said, you got TONS of hits.. and after trying
about
> > 8 different ways to attach fitting to the rubbermaid, I don;t want to
> > screw it up, and I don't want to deal with leaks and tearing the whole
> > thing apart a week from now.
> >
> > It's not like there's a "build your own pond filter" website, with
specs,
> > part numbers and order info.
>
> There isn't? Too bad, I know there used to be some (OK, perhaps not so
far
> as "order info" but with specific part availability).
Building A Bio-Logical Filter for your Pond
http://www.skippysstuff.com/biofiltr.htm
~ jan
San Diego Joe
> GareeeŠ wrote:
>
>>> Doug Brown" <doug....@sasktel.net> wrote in message
>>> news:135sn1f...@corp.supernews.com...
>>> This really isn't that tough, and google should be your friend.
>>
>> True, but as you just said, you got TONS of hits.. and after trying about
>> 8 different ways to attach fitting to the rubbermaid, I don;t want to
>> screw it up, and I don't want to deal with leaks and tearing the whole
>> thing apart a week from now.
>>
>> It's not like there's a "build your own pond filter" website, with specs,
>> part numbers and order info.
>
> There isn't? Too bad, I know there used to be some (OK, perhaps not so far
> as "order info" but with specific part availability).
Funny. Try googling "build your own pond filter"
San Diego Joe
4,000 - 5,000 Gallons.
Koi, Goldfish, and RES named Colombo.
Derek Broughton
I'm not sure what your point is. I don't see anything there that actually
gives the sort of detail Gareee wants. I really do recall having seen some
that did.
Gareee©
It's funny you mention that,. Derek.. the whole point of getting the group
back was to have a resource for us to share information, but when someone
has an honest problem, and asks for issues, were were a number of "google it
yourself" replies.
When I build my smaller filter last year, not once was a bulkhead mentioned
in any reply, and I think I made 15 trips to either a lowe's walmart or home
depot getting parts to assemble. I've already spent probably 4 hours in
store this year on the new one, and a full day on assembly, trying to get it
right with a larger filter this go around.
I'm still not 100% sure the toilet flages using the wax gaskets will work
over time, but no one offered a solution to adding them to a rubbermaid at
all, so I just kind of made it up as I went along. I stil might have to
actually make gaskets of some kind, and add a home made rigid gasket for the
inner connectors on the rubbermaid.
And while many people live "in the big city" where a lot of options for
parts are available, many of us do NOT, and have few shopping options. I
personally have a Lowe's and walmart nearby, a Home Depot 30 minutes highway
away, and a few scattered farm supply stores, that look like they are still
mired in the 70's. My only other resource is shopping on the web, but if you
get the wrong parts, it's weeks before that can be turned around and
rectified, plus then you have to add shipping costs.
I was a bit dismayed by the negative replies to me assembly issues, but held
my tounge.
Derek Broughton
> I was a bit dismayed by the negative replies to me assembly issues, but
> held my tounge.
Seriously, I think much of it wasn't intended to be negative (I admit to
having missed at least half the thread, though) but was more in the sense
of not realizing that what was obvious to many responders wasn't obvious to
you. I know when I initially responded about glues, I was completely
unaware you were trying to put a fitting through the Rubbermaid and thought
you were trying to fix a hole.
It would be a wonderful thing if anybody _does_ know of any build-your-own
filter sites with real part numbers if they'd post links. Even when the
original builder is in a different country, if you have actual part numbers
you can find out exactly what they are on the web, then you can find local
suppliers that sell similar items. It eliminates a lot of guess work.
cat daddy
> GareeeŠ wrote:
>
> > I was a bit dismayed by the negative replies to me assembly issues, but
> > held my tounge.
>
> Seriously, I think much of it wasn't intended to be negative (I admit to
> having missed at least half the thread, though)
There were many great replies, both for experiences with adhesives as well
as sources of info for bulkhead fittings.
> but was more in the sense
> of not realizing that what was obvious to many responders wasn't obvious
to
> you. I know when I initially responded about glues, I was completely
> unaware you were trying to put a fitting through the Rubbermaid and
thought
> you were trying to fix a hole.
>
> It would be a wonderful thing if anybody _does_ know of any build-your-own
> filter sites with real part numbers if they'd post links.
Again, there were several great sites posted, both with DIY info, and
commercial parts ordering sites, but both you and Garee apparently missed
all of them.
Gareee©
news:4LudnaqAMf-7t_7b...@giganews.com...
> There were many great replies, both for experiences with adhesives as well
> as sources of info for bulkhead fittings.
Yes, and from the replies, I never got any confirmation abotu any adhesive
really working on rubbermaid containers
> Again, there were several great sites posted, both with DIY info, and
> commercial parts ordering sites, but both you and Garee apparently missed
> all of them.
No, I did see them, and visited them,.. and they were posted about 2 weeks
after the original thread was started.
~ jan
>It's not like there's a "build your own pond filter" website, with specs,
>part numbers and order info.
>
>I went through similar issues last year building the smaller filter, and not
>once was adding a bulkhead even mentioned.
Actually, if you'd looked at mine, which is always at the bottom of my sig.
I show the filter, the parts, where purchased, cost (at the time), and part
numbers. Granted some of the info is old, but it will still get you there.
Bulkheads are part of the list.
Unfortunately it is somewhat different than what you are building. I'm
sorry, I assumed (oops) that you'd seen my website at one time or another.
I should know better. Especially after yesterday when a lady stopped by the
booth I was manning asking about pond builder/fixers who actually showed up
to work. Turned out after talking with her for a bit, she had a leak and
hadn't even tried the method of turning off the water fall to see if it was
there. She was already to rip it out, order a new liner, and hire someone
to do. She'd already had someone out who didn't measurements and didn't get
back to her.... and he didn't even make sure that's where the problem was.
Click on Demon Pond Filter to see picture and the parts list. Click on "My
Filter" to see it in ground. ~ jan
Kurt
"Gareee©" <gareee-...@charter.net> wrote:
Only that when people were inquiring about very general things, a good
place to start is with Google.
I found myself going to Google for a few of the topics brought up here,
and was able to learn even more.
Gareee©
news:labolide-FCF19D...@news.giganews.com...
> Only that when people were inquiring about very general things, a good
> place to start is with Google.
> I found myself going to Google for a few of the topics brought up here,
> and was able to learn even more.
I use google here all the time,. but the best pond tips I've gotten are ALL
from the old newsgroup. Plus it makes no sense to try various web tips, when
people here have already tried them, and found issues with them.
Otherwise why even bother to have the newsgroup? The whole point it to share
tips, tricks, successes and failures so we all have better healthier ponds.
Kurt
"Gareee©" <gareee-...@charter.net> wrote:
Of course, but in the instance where someone might be looking where to
find a particular product, a Google search would have solved the query
pretty quick.
The Gorilla Glue thread, for example is a perfect example of what you
are talking about - Personal experience on its effectiveness.
For example: The topic of using a shop vac to clean my pond was worth
it's weight in gold to me.
Would have taken a while to find that solution in Google.
The group rocks. (or flows)
cat daddy
> "cat daddy" <furball@.myhouse.com> wrote in message
> news:4LudnaqAMf-7t_7b...@giganews.com...
>
> > There were many great replies, both for experiences with adhesives as
well
> > as sources of info for bulkhead fittings.
>
> Yes, and from the replies, I never got any confirmation abotu any adhesive
> really working on rubbermaid containers
And, valuable information to pass along in the future. Nothing easily
available will bond most Rubbermaid plastics. Specifically to the wheels on
their lawn carts, Only 3M™ Scotch-Weld™ Structural Plastic Adhesive DP-8005
will do, and it's not available to the consumer.
http://www.plasticsmag.com/ta.asp?aid=3080
So, you're back to bulkhead fittings and you should have enough info to
build your own from parts at Lowes, order any of the choices online, from
say the store in jan's link, or discover that the wax ring experiment works
or doesn't work.
> > Again, there were several great sites posted, both with DIY info, and
> > commercial parts ordering sites, but both you and Garee apparently
missed
> > all of them.
>
> No, I did see them, and visited them,.. and they were posted about 2 weeks
> after the original thread was started.
There was no indication of that from your posts, and Derek kept saying
that no links were being posted, when they were. The failed adhesives
discussion delayed getting to the heart of your problem. Good luck,
anyway....
Derek Broughton
> Again, there were several great sites posted, both with DIY info, and
> commercial parts ordering sites, but both you and Garee apparently missed
> all of them.
Acgtually, no. I just went back through the whole thread. There were lots
of good references, once it was stated that he needed a bulkhead fitting,
for where to find bulkhead fittings, but I still don't see anything like a
web site detailing parts required for a home built filter. It would still
be nice to have.
Derek Broughton
> There was no indication of that from your posts, and Derek kept saying
> that no links were being posted, when they were.
No, I didn't say anything like that. Garee pointed out that he hasn't seen
any websites that list part numbers for building a filter. I said I've
seen some, but I have no current links, and would really like to find such
links. Nothing in this thread has changed that.
Gareee©
area.. because of a drought, there are no bulkheads (or very few) available
locally. Figures.. LOL!
So I went back through the thread, and looked for the web page that showed
how to make one from electrical conduit.
Yet another trip to Lowe's again.. >sigh< they like seeign me far too much!
Anyway I managed to cobble up what looks like workable bulkheads. I used 1
1/2 inch, so it would match the pvc connected to the clear line I have
coming from the uv filter. The tub gaskets he mentioned were far too large,
but we managed to find #18 O rings that look like they'll do the trick, and
you get 10 for a buck n change. I'll use one on the outside of the sterlite,
and one on the inside as well.
Hopefully they are large enough.
Originally I grabbed the larger ones mentioned in the article, but then was
trying to find connectors for the clear line I have for output, and was
grabbing far too much stuff to make a cap.
Only thing I'm lacking, is some "grate" thing for the bottom of the filter,
to keep the filter material away from the bottom, so I'll use a small milk
crate in the meantime, just to get it running.
I'll probably buy some 3/4" pcv and corners, to make a box shape with legs,
and then use strapping of some kind running around that for the filter
material to rest on.
With luck, I'll have this together in a few hours for a test.
Gareee©
Good: makeshift bulkheads seem to work great, with no leaks! Yay!
Bad: Sterilie got a crack from the water weight in the lip on the top.. once
the lid is secured on, I think it'll reinforce it fine.
Ugly: the water flow in exceeds the waterflow out, so I'm getting overflow..
only options I can think of is trying a larger output fitting, adding a
second fitting the size I currently have. I'm using the largest hose my
Lowe's carries, so I'll need to also rig up a outflow pipe or hose to the
pond.
I could use the toilet flanges I got, but I'm still not happy with the wax
seals on them. I'm going to see if there are some 2: fittings that might
work out in the electrical conduit section, or the plumbing section at
Lowe's. I'll need to see if I can use something that will still accept that
makeshift gasket from the web page article.
G Pearce
Hi Garee - IME, a 2" return fitting will handle up to a ~ 2000 gph pump - if
you are pumping more than that through the filter, you need more than 1 - 2"
return line, but more than ~1000 gph going through your filter of 45 gal
will be a problem as it will not work as well (too fast) - I use a 2500gph
pump that is "teed" so that I am actually running ~ 800 - 900gph through my
45 gal barrel filter and the rest directly to my waterfall
Gale :~)
Gareee©
> Hi Garee - IME, a 2" return fitting will handle up to a ~ 2000 gph pump -
> if you are pumping more than that through the filter, you need more than
> 1 - 2" return line, but more than ~1000 gph going through your filter of
> 45 gal will be a problem as it will not work as well (too fast) - I use a
> 2500gph pump that is "teed" so that I am actually running ~ 800 - 900gph
> through my 45 gal barrel filter and the rest directly to my waterfall
> Gale :~)
Good to know.. I ended up getting a 3" setup just in case. after I made a
gasket, and test fit it, the parts became so stuck, I couldn't unscrew
them.. hopefully a quick trip to Lowe's, and they'll have some way to
unscrew them.
After getting it on, I'll drain about 2/3 of the pond to get rid of all the
crap floating around in it, and hopefully that'll help the new filter get is
clear sooner.
Gareee
(Gary Tabar Jr.)
~ jan
wrote:
>I still don't see anything like a web site detailing parts required for a home built filter.
So what could I add to mine to cover that?
Click on Demon Pond Filter, ~ jan
Gareee©
bending, so that's good. There's a place on the front for a lock, and I
might add some bends wire and tie it, just for aditional support.
I still have a minor leak on the to outlet bulkhead.. I have 1 gasket
inside, and 2 outside.. I'll add a third tomorrow, and see if that will give
me enough compression to seal it. We've been in pretty bad drought for the
last few months now, as a cup or two of water on the ground won't hurt
anything.
All the lower home made bulkheads with the O rings seems to work just fine.
Wish I could fine some larger O rings around here, to use instead of the
gaskets cut from rubber gasket material.
Ah well.. it finally works, and other then the fish unrooting a few small
transplants, all seems fine for now. With any luck, the uv will take care of
the green, and the filter will filter out the suspended crap floating
around.
Oh! and had my first lilly bloom today as well, so after both the wife and
myself weed whacking for 5 hours, it's turned out to be a good yard day.
wdcro...@pcisys.net
> around.
>
> Oh! and had my first lilly bloom today as well, so after both the wife and
> myself weed whacking for 5 hours, it's turned out to be a good yard day.
>
> --
> Gareee
> (Gary Tabar Jr.)
HoooRAH!!!! for your first lily bloom! :-) I have a few buds coming
up but no flowers yet. Maybe by Sunday. One can hope!
Glad to hear the bulkheads are working for you. I used ABS fittings
and couplings. Screwed them in to the Rubbermaid and they have worked
fine. VERY inexpensive! I will try to take some pics (I purchased my
very first point and shoot digital camera this year!) and post them on
http://home.pcisys.net/~muaddib/
Success to you!
Gareee©
news:1181268972.2...@n4g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> HoooRAH!!!! for your first lily bloom! :-) I have a few buds coming
> up but no flowers yet. Maybe by Sunday.
I was expecting some sooner, but I'm wondering if the lack of sunlight down
into the water has slowed thier growth some?
>One can hope!
> Glad to hear the bulkheads are working for you. I used ABS fittings
> and couplings. Screwed them in to the Rubbermaid and they have worked
> fine. VERY inexpensive! I will try to take some pics (I purchased my
> very first point and shoot digital camera this year!) and post them on
> http://home.pcisys.net/~muaddib/
> Success to you!
Thanks. I'm using abs as well, since it's cast in black, and looks a bit
nicer then the gray electrical conduit. What did you use for
gaskets/sealant? I've got one gasket inside the tub, and two outside, and
I'm still getting a slight leak. I'll try adding a third outside today, and
see if that helps.
wdcro...@pcisys.net
> <wdcrock...@pcisys.net> wrote in message
Hi Gary!
I used gaskets cut from pond liner. :-P Screwed (tightened) the ABS
fittings until the water stopped dripping/leaking. Has held up very
well for the past three season. Ever once in a while, I will notice
some dripping but it is only a drop or two every now and then and it
usually stops on its own. I don't really mind the occasional drip
drip drip as I am going to be water changes anyway (trying to reduce
hormones and improve mineral and water quality anyway).
Hope that helps. Oh, yes and if you really must have now drips, put
silicone on both sides of the gasket before you tighten them down.
That will stop any dripping.
Dale
Gareee©
news:1181424835.6...@n4g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
> I used gaskets cut from pond liner. :-P Screwed (tightened) the ABS
> fittings until the water stopped dripping/leaking. Has held up very
> well for the past three season. Ever once in a while, I will notice
> some dripping but it is only a drop or two every now and then and it
> usually stops on its own. I don't really mind the occasional drip
> drip drip as I am going to be water changes anyway (trying to reduce
> hormones and improve mineral and water quality anyway).
The leaks stopped before I could even go out and add another gasket, so I'll
live with that. I'm thinking of cuting the end off the utflow pipe, so it
spills onto a rock, making a mini waterfall. Least it'll look better then a
big black pipe with water coming out.
Not sure how long it'll take to do the job though... I'll give it a week,
and see if it looks like it's having any effect.
> Hope that helps. Oh, yes and if you really must have now drips, put
> silicone on both sides of the gasket before you tighten them down.
> That will stop any dripping.
Actually, I'd thought about that, but since the leak stopped on it's own,
I'll let it be for now. Looks like the sterilite lid has been an excellent
reinforcement for the water pressure bowing out the container. Might pick up
another.. I can use it for stotrage in the meantime, and if down the road, I
need to replace it, I'll already have the backup. for $15 I can't really go
wrong.
wdcro...@pcisys.net
> <wdcrock...@pcisys.net> wrote in message
Outstanding, Gary!
Glad that is working out for you. I remember the first time I looked
at the cost of "real bulkheads" I bout had a heart attack! LOL That
is what caused me to look for options.
Success to you this ponding season! Remember to post pictures for us
to look at. :-)
Dale
Gareee©
news:1181503455.8...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> Outstanding, Gary!
> Glad that is working out for you. I remember the first time I looked
> at the cost of "real bulkheads" I bout had a heart attack! LOL That
> is what caused me to look for options.
> Success to you this ponding season! Remember to post pictures for us
> to look at. :-)
I'm hoping I'll see things clear up.. as of yet, both the uv filter and the
particle filter seems to be having little effect, but then we have also had
full blazing sun every day the last week, so it's an uphill battle.
In a new filter situation clearing a pond in bad shape, how often should I
drain the filter out? I'm tempted to drain the pond down 30%, and add fresh
clear water, just so it at least looks like something's happening.. and
yeah, I know that adds more nutrients for the algea, but I have a feeling
it's already got plenty to chow down on.
I've got about 6 lilies, but only one is getting really large pads, and
various other plants in the pond to add some shade, but coverage is only
about 10-20%, far less then it needs to be in summertime.
Gareee©
news:1181503455.8...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> Success to you this ponding season! Remember to post pictures for us
> to look at. :-)
Here's a quick one, so you can see what things are like.. green.. LOL!
Last year's waterfall attempt on the right, new sterlite filter behind the
arbor, and nightshade on the left. Some pond plant blooms.. even our hostas
(as you can tell) are small from the lack of rain this season.
http://webpages.charter.net/gareee/Pond.jpg
~ jan
wrote:
>http://webpages.charter.net/gareee/Pond.jpg
That is really looking nice, even green, the surroundings, the arbor swing,
I really like that.
Btw, instead of a 30% water change all at once, it isn't the nutrients, it
is the imbalance that can produce more green water. Better would be to
trickle water in slowly and let it over flow, or do a 10% water change
once/day. ~ jan
Gareee©
news:bbnp63linjp2ohmao...@4ax.com...
>>http://webpages.charter.net/gareee/Pond.jpg
>
> That is really looking nice, even green, the surroundings, the arbor
> swing,
> I really like that.
Thanks. As you can see, the ground itself is pretty sloped, so we had to
build up the lower part to make a pond, or we would have had to dig the pond
4 feet deeper at the right hand side.. and we were hitting pretty big almost
unmovable rocks in some cases.
> Btw, instead of a 30% water change all at once, it isn't the nutrients, it
> is the imbalance that can produce more green water. Better would be to
> trickle water in slowly and let it over flow, or do a 10% water change
> once/day.
Heck, I have to do that anyway with the high heat, lack of rain, and
evaporation.
I'd say we are loosing about 10-20% every 2 weeks easily, with the full sun
we are getting.
~ jan
wrote:
>Heck, I have to do that anyway with the high heat, lack of rain, and
>evaporation.
>
>I'd say we are loosing about 10-20% every 2 weeks easily, with the full sun
>we are getting.
But that's not really a water change. ;-) I'm talking 10%/day removal
reentry. ~ jan
Gareee©
> But that's not really a water change. ;-) I'm talking 10%/day removal
> reentry. ~ jan
True.. I'll start doing that today
Derek Broughton
> On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:52:22 CST, "Gareee©" <gareee-...@charter.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Heck, I have to do that anyway with the high heat, lack of rain, and
>>evaporation.
>>
>>I'd say we are loosing about 10-20% every 2 weeks easily, with the full
>>sun we are getting.
>
> But that's not really a water change. ;-) I'm talking 10%/day removal
> reentry. ~ jan
Remember, Garee, evaporation only removes the H2O, leaving behind
_everything else. The idea of water changes is to actually remove
minerals, toxins, etc.
Gareee©
> Remember, Garee, evaporation only removes the H2O, leaving behind
> _everything else. The idea of water changes is to actually remove
> minerals, toxins, etc.
Yep.. I hear ya.. I did a water change yesterday, and we both see a
noticable difference today. I'll repeat that for the next week I think, to
help the new filter along.
I'm thinking of adding a few more of the air conditioner filters as well.. I
think I can easily fit 4 more in, and that should increase it's filtering
ability.
Gareee©
combined I['m guessing with rain "lubrication" popped off the lid off the
filter. it needs to be drained in order to be put back on.
Quick fixes, were to add some plastic compression clamps on the back two lid
hinges, and drill a hole through the lid and lip, and make some quickie
"hinges" out of 50 lb fishing line.
The front has a lock location, so I just grabbed a heavy rose twist tie, and
tied that up for now.
Unless someone here has a better idea, I'll add 3-5 more holes through the
lid n lip, and add some additional fishing line hinges.. or I might pick up
some larger tie wraps, and use those instead since they'll probably last
longer.
Oh, btw after a week running, I can confirm the filter is working.. the
inside filter material is solid muck, and needs to be hosed off already.
Least I know it's working.
~ jan
wrote:
>Oh, btw after a week running, I can confirm the filter is working.. the
>inside filter material is solid muck, and needs to be hosed off already.
>
>Least I know it's working.
Yea!!!
Not sure if this will help with lid problem, but I always keep a big
assortment of bungee cords handy. ;-) ~ jan
Gareee©
>>Least I know it's working.
>
> Yea!!!
>
> Not sure if this will help with lid problem, but I always keep a big
> assortment of bungee cords handy. ;-) ~ jan
Actually that is an excellent idea! And gods knows I have a bunch of those!
I need to pick up another hose, because my current ones just aren't long
enough to get over to the filter, to clean out those filter screens.. I had
also added some 2" cut up foam cubes to grab smaller particles, but IMHO
they are more trouble then they are worth.
Since the filter screens are working great, I think I'll add 3 more.. I'm
pretty sure I have the capacity for them, and at 43 a pop. they are cheap.
Phyllis and Jim
Did you post a pic of the setup?
Jim
Gareee©
news:1181937381....@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> Gary,
>
> Did you post a pic of the setup?
No, just the long shot of the pond. My website hasn't been updated in about
8 years, and I use my personal charter webspace for hosting cgi content.
I picked up some rubber tiedowns from walmart today, and 3 more filter
screens, and after I clean out the filters today, I'll take a few pics.
I also snagged some more milk crates from a local store, so they can be used
for additional support inside.
I'm just SO happy after all this time (3 years now) to has finally solved
the algea/filter issues. Hopefully the tiedowns will work on the lid, and
I'll have a filtering solution that will last us a few years. I might put
some concrete blocks in the pond, and cap them with a spill rock, for the
outflow from the filter.. least it'll look better then just a big black pipe
dumping back in the pond.
OOO!! now that the pond's clear, I can put the underwater lights back in we
got from harbor freight last year. It was so murky, we removed them, because
they did nothing at all at night.
I still have that waterproof rope light I can use in th edeeper end of the
pond as well.. it's the kind without vent holes, and with leds instead of
"christmas" styled lights inside.
If you sink that about 3 feet down in semi clear water, you get a VERY cool
blueish glow from it, and becuase it's using LEDs, electrical use is
minimal.
One thing we used to do, was to just loop it up in a milk crate, turn that
upside down, and add a cap rock on top of it. You get a cool glow effect
coming from under the rock, and the rock hides seeing the ropelight
directly. That works for less then 3 feet down.
Now I'm wondering about that guy who was going to experiment with an
underwater gas jet, and flames on the top of his pond.
(Just saw a restraunt the other day that has a lot of those around for
ambiance.)
Phyllis and Jim
that. He put them in around the deck. The pond will be a great
additon.
Phyllis
Gareee©
> Thanks for the remark about the lights. I will get Jim to look into
> that. He put them in around the deck. The pond will be a great
> additon.
Just make SURE you get the ones without the holes in them.. you can usually
see them in the package.. I think the last ones I bought were from Target.
The different colored lights will give you some interesting effects... I'm
partial to blue and green though.
I picked up the rubber bungie cords at walmart...and ended up having to
return them and get smaller ones.. 15" ers did the trick, and the black
rubber looks good on the black filter.
I managed to clean the muck out of the filter... oh how many times I've read
"I just cleaned out the filter" and never REALLY realized what a mess it
actually is! I've say 30% of the 50 gallon container was that dark green
muck! And half of those damned cut up foam cubes slipped down, and kept
blocking the drain!
I yanked all those damned things out, and now only have the large air
conditioner sheets. Out of curiosity, what procedure does everyone use to
clean out their filters?
This is what I ended up doing:
Pulling out the filter sheets, laying them on a "stonehenge" rock setup, and
using the hardest setting from my hose to hose them clean... 10 sheets took
an hour or so to get mostly clean!
Left the drain open on the filter, and left the pump on, so it could help
wash that gunk out the other side. Used the hose to assist, and also to kick
up the gunk so it's flow out the drain.
I can only HOPE that since this was the first main use of the new filter,
that future cleanings will be less often, and less crap will be caught up in
the filter. I can't imagine that much work ever 6 days or so!
I'm also VERY fortunate that my home is on a mountain, so all this still
drains downhill... if I was a flatlander, I'd have a new mini sewage pond
right now!
Phyllis and Jim
Congratulations on the working filter! Just think what is NOT in your
pond any more!
I suspect most folks have a similar experience cleaning out the
filters. Our berm ponds collect the muck and can be drained through
2" bottom drains by opening a valve. Easy work. We then flush with
pond water. Our upflow barrels are similar. Valves to drain and
flush the strapping tape with pond water.
Folks with screening as the filter medium have to pull it out and wash
it. Easier than blue mats.
Does your barrel drain at the bottom? You might end up with screen to
filter and drain to empty.
Keep us posted on the cleaning rate.
Jim
Gareee©
> Gary,
>
> Congratulations on the working filter! Just think what is NOT in your
> pond any more!
Yep.. today it was even clearer then yesterday.
> Folks with screening as the filter medium have to pull it out and wash
> it. Easier than blue mats.
Screening? uing actual screens for filtering instead of the blue mats?
>
> Does your barrel drain at the bottom? You might end up with screen to
> filter and drain to empty.
Not on the very bottom.. on the side near the bottom. There's about 1 inch
left after it drains,. but I can just turn the pump on, and fresh pond water
will circulate inside to help flush that last little bit out.
BTW I DID manage to snag two new milk crates for supporting the filters...
they won't fit if placed upside down normally, but if you rotate them
slightly, they fi perfectly, without putting pressure on the improvised
bulkheads.. I'm sure when the water pressure inscreases, the sides bow out
some,and the clearance on them is fine.
>
> Keep us posted on the cleaning rate.
Will do.. the rubber bungies look great on the filter, and seem to be
holding the lid down nice n snug, without putting too much stress on the
lips.
This will be the first Saturday in ages where I could just feed the fish,
and enjoy the pond.. course now that I can see down, I want to brush of the
rocks n such that got covered in dark green muck.. I know the filters can
suck that out now.
~ jan
wrote:
>I yanked all those damned things out, and now only have the large air
>conditioner sheets. Out of curiosity, what procedure does everyone use to
>clean out their filters?
In my filter I have the 1" thick, approx. 2X3 feet open cell foam. Only
cleaned 1/year. DS made a rack with pvc and wire fencing. An A frame when
open that collapses flat to store. Since we have a nice power washer, we
use that to clean the foam. 16 sheets takes about 15 minutes.The pre-filter
full of vinyl screen door stuff is just spread out on the lawn and sprayed
with a spray nozzle. The spraying part only takes 5-10 minutes, but doing
the whole cleaning process, especially by my slow old self takes 45 minutes
to an hour, from getting stuff out thru putting it all back. Luckily I only
have to do that 4 times/year. Now the D.pond it has to be done
once/month.... and I've let it go about 2 weeks longer than normal. DS
helps and we'll be cleaning the pre-filter tomorrow on it.
>I can only HOPE that since this was the first main use of the new filter,
>that future cleanings will be less often, and less crap will be caught up in
>the filter. I can't imagine that much work ever 6 days or so!
Yes it will get better... and 6 days isn't bad for the first few times
around. ~ jan
Gareee©
> On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 21:35:13 CST, "Gareee©" <gareee-...@charter.net>
> wrote:
>
>>I yanked all those damned things out, and now only have the large air
>>conditioner sheets. Out of curiosity, what procedure does everyone use to
>>clean out their filters?
>
> In my filter I have the 1" thick, approx. 2X3 feet open cell foam. Only
> cleaned 1/year. DS made a rack with pvc and wire fencing. An A frame when
> open that collapses flat to store. Since we have a nice power washer, we
> use that to clean the foam. 16 sheets takes about 15 minutes.The
> pre-filter
> full of vinyl screen door stuff is just spread out on the lawn and sprayed
> with a spray nozzle. The spraying part only takes 5-10 minutes, but doing
> the whole cleaning process, especially by my slow old self takes 45
> minutes
> to an hour, from getting stuff out thru putting it all back. Luckily I
> only
> have to do that 4 times/year. Now the D.pond it has to be done
> once/month.... and I've let it go about 2 weeks longer than normal. DS
> helps and we'll be cleaning the pre-filter tomorrow on it.
Cool.. that explanation lets me kno wit' snot just me, but the filters were
so thick with muck, that it just took longer here. Might pick up some of
that vinyl door screening. it's pretty cheap if I recall.. do you have it
stretched on a frame of some kind?
>
>>I can only HOPE that since this was the first main use of the new filter,
>>that future cleanings will be less often, and less crap will be caught up
>>in
>>the filter. I can't imagine that much work ever 6 days or so!
>
> Yes it will get better... and 6 days isn't bad for the first few times
> around. ~ jan
Yeah I figure 2-3 nasty clean outs, and all should hopefully be well for a
longer period.
Today I just enjoyed what visibility I had, and fed the fish,, they are
eating like monsters now!
~ jan
wrote:
>Cool.. that explanation lets me kno wit' snot just me, but the filters were
>so thick with muck, that it just took longer here. Might pick up some of
>that vinyl door screening. it's pretty cheap if I recall.. do you have it
>stretched on a frame of some kind?
>
Just wadded up in crinkled folds. I have to use some hardware cloth to hold
it down so it doesn't float into the bulkheads.
>Today I just enjoyed what visibility I had, and fed the fish,, they are
>eating like monsters now!
That is WONDERFUL, well... the visibility, I'm a little worried about your
monster-like fish appetites. ;-) ~ jan
Gareee©
>>Cool.. that explanation lets me kno wit' snot just me, but the filters
>>were
>>so thick with muck, that it just took longer here. Might pick up some of
>>that vinyl door screening. it's pretty cheap if I recall.. do you have it
>>stretched on a frame of some kind?
>>
> Just wadded up in crinkled folds. I have to use some hardware cloth to
> hold
> it down so it doesn't float into the bulkheads.
I'm suspecting it's finer, so catches smaller particles?
>>Today I just enjoyed what visibility I had, and fed the fish,, they are
>>eating like monsters now!
>
> That is WONDERFUL, well... the visibility, I'm a little worried about your
> monster-like fish appetites. ;-) ~ jan
They are eating like a full 16 oz cup of food daily.. course there are about
40-50 of them now, and if I don't feed them, they just hack away at the
plants.
We still need to cull the 5 or 10 biggest out, and take them down to the
local aquarium for credit. We've kind of lost interest in the inside
aquarium, so not sure what we'll do with the credit there. Might look into
converting our indoor tank into salt water, so we can have seahorses....
dr-...@wi.rr.com
plants out, then use a wet dry vac to suck the muck out.
with the bucket filter I pull the bunched green mosquito screening,
the stiff filter material, the polyester blanket out.
I empty the contents of the bucket on plantings.
fill the bucket, plunge various filters in the bucket, empty onto
plantings. drape filters over one of those expanded metal mesh
outdoor chairs and turn the hose on them. I am not too fussy about
getting em that clean.
Ingrid
On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 21:35:13 CST, "Gareee©"
<gareee-...@charter.net> wrote:
~ jan
wrote:
>I'm suspecting it's finer, so catches smaller particles?
Just like bug screening, mainly used in my case to catch the big solids,
the fines get caught by the bio-filter and break down.
>They are eating like a full 16 oz cup of food daily.. course there are about
>40-50 of them now, and if I don't feed them, they just hack away at the
>plants.
Wow, plant hacking good indication. Don't forget peas.
>converting our indoor tank into salt water, so we can have seahorses....
Now that would be cool. ~ jan