Shall we move to social media?

[Phyllis and Jim]

We are coming to the time when rpm will have to pay the annual $100 again f
or the server to moderate messages. Looking at the low frequency of posts
on rpm, it seems worth discussing whether to move to a free social media lo
cation which will also permit moderating. What do people think?

[Brian Watson]

"Phyllis and Jim" <jimandp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:34a5e7a3-a086-4b9e...@googlegroups.com...

I would moderate it for nothing, if you like?

Newsgroups still have their place.

--
Brian Watson

[Stephen Wolstenholme]

Not a good idea as many people, like me, never use social media.

Steve

--
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. http://www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. http://www.justnn.com

[~ jan]

On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 19:23:41 EST, Phyllis and Jim
<jimandp...@gmail.com> wrote:

For me, unfortunate as it may be, I'm ready to toss in the towel. I just
don't find the time and probably won't again until retirement (hopefully in
10 years or less). School resumed in September, then Oct hit will all the
winterizing chores, then with may one weekend to breathe, the holidays hit.
And since mothers are the holiday makers, I had little time other than
answering e-mail. Here it is end of January and I finally had time to get
on here, by end of next month spring start up will suck my time away again.
Hoping others will sign in to Koiphen, as that is where I'll be come
summer.... if I have time.

Perhaps the old unmoderated rec.ponds is doable again? Seems the trolls
have forgotten many of us? ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State
Ponds: www.jjspond.us

[San Diego Joe]

As someone who is not active here, I don't feel I should get a vote. But...
every time this board moves, it loses users. When we got spammed so badly
on rec.ponds, my posts never showed up on the new moderated version, not su
re why. Can you explain how the moderation system on the board works and wh
y it costs $100/year?

[Paul W. Schleck]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

In <c43d70e0-42f3-4ef0...@googlegroups.com> San Diego Joe <j...@bizqwick.com> writes:

>On Friday, January 25, 2013 4:23:41 PM UTC-8, Phyllis and Jim wrote:
>> We are coming to the time when rpm will have to pay the annual $100 again
> f
>>
>> or the server to moderate messages. Looking at the low frequency of post
>s
>>
>> on rpm, it seems worth discussing whether to move to a free social media
>lo
>>
>> cation which will also permit moderating. What do people think?

>As someone who is not active here, I don't feel I should get a vote. But...
> every time this board moves, it loses users. When we got spammed so badly
>on rec.ponds, my posts never showed up on the new moderated version, not su
>re why.

Google Groups shows at least 140 approved articles from you on
rec.ponds.moderated, fewer recently, but many in the early lifetime of
the newsgroup (2007 and 2008):

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!profile/rec.ponds.moderated/APn2wQcQad-Lvakigj8qqE7QK9pb8leLPk8ZE3SDLKgjXoYY8jGL5XjUqAvRSOykkfJRIatTQKWa

>Can you explain how the moderation system on the board works and wh
>y it costs $100/year?

The $100/year is for reliable commercial hosting on a Unix server, with
shell login, that is directly connected to the Internet, and is
configured for most standard services (mail, news, www, etc.) and most
standard software packages (compilers, script interpreters, web server,
news and mail clients, etc.). As a commercial service, it is
well-hardened against SPAM and intrusion attacks, and is contractually
obligated to the moderation team to provide reliable service long-term.
That service is Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC ("Panix"), and is
used by another half-dozen moderation teams who subscribe to Panix for
accounts to run their moderation software.

A moderated newsgroup, even a low-volume one, has a lot of
"behind-the-scenes" processing, including filtering of incoming SPAM and
binary attachments, reviewing submissions, rejecting or approving them,
formatting rejection letters back to the submitters, formatting articles
for posting to the newsgroup, and posting to the newsgroup via a news
server. To do this reliably over the long-term without delays, errors,
or eventual burnout really requires the automation support of moderation
software, particularly software that allows for shared moderation by a
team. The software used by rec.ponds.moderated is Secure, Team-Based,
Usenet Moderation Program (STUMP). STUMP is free for those who can
provide their own hosting and technical support. The community of
moderation teams hosted at Panix are willing and able to provide mutual
technical support to each other for STUMP for free.

It may be possible to provide moderation services completely for free,
without paying a hosting service like Panix, but you may get what you
pay for (or even negative value if it requires substantial configuration
from scratch, fails to work properly, or goes away suddenly in the
future). I also don't see any free alternative being able to be
realistically stood up into operation before the annual Panix
subscription expires.

My recommendation, therefore, would be to keep the newsgroup, and seek
voluntary contributions with the annual Panix subscription. I myself
pledge $20 towards this cause.

- --
Paul W. Schleck
psch...@novia.net
http://www.novia.net/~pschleck/
Finger psch...@novia.net for PGP Public Key

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[dr-...@wi.rr.com]

you can count on me to contribute money to keep this group going.
Ingrid

On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 19:23:41 EST, Phyllis and Jim <jimandp...@gmail.com> wrote:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Somewhere between zone 5 and 6 tucked along the shore of Lake Michigan
on the council grounds of the Fox, Mascouten, Potawatomi, and Winnebago

[JB]

I miss the old days.

Such good information to be gleaned from the postings on rec.ponds
before the spammers set in. This forum just doesn't get the # of
posters. This is my first log on in about two months. I could do better.

I contributed to the pot for the sever fee last time. I'm good for one
more shot at it.

Don't go ~jan !!!!

JB

[~ jan]

Okay... as long as there is a RPM, I won't go. :) Though I'm fortunate as a
mod that I get e-mail notices when something comes in. How I know to check,
though I got real busy around the holidays. Someone will have to remind me
how to pay up when the time comes. I know we did it thru paypal and I think
I had my son pay it for me... he owes me money, so doesn't even hurt to
pay. ;)

Today I went out and harvested my first bowl of winter baby spinach, I'm so
excited. Course AJ can't wait to tell the gardeners at work that his wife
is already ready picking edibles from her garden.

Then a heron decided to do a fly by and landed on the top of the neighbor's
pine tree (I don't get how they can perch at the very top of a tree like
that). Stuck around for me to get pictures, but no way could it get fish,
we're all tucked in till I can hook up motion sprinklers and that won't be
till mid-March at the very earliest. Then there is the hot wire and the
over head lines.... I hope it noted those. ~ jan

[Paul W. Schleck]

Moderator VACANCY INVESTIGATION (MVI)
moderated group rec.ponds.moderated

This is a formal Moderator Vacancy Investigation (MVI), begun because
moderated newsgroup rec.ponds.moderated is not functioning, and may
have been abandoned by its moderator(s).

This investigation will attempt to verify the reasons for non-function,
and may result in the removal of the group or the selection and
installation of a new moderator. In practice, the Big-8 Management
Board considers the third alternative -- changing the status of the
group from moderated to unmoderated -- as likely to cause more harm than
good.

NEWSGROUPS LINE:
rec.ponds.moderated Care & enjoyment of recreational pods & water gardens. (Moderated)

RATIONALE:
Probe posts to this group result in bounces:

<rpma...@panix.com> (expanded from <rec-ponds...@panix.com>): unknown user: "rpmadmin"

The last article approved by the moderators, with Message ID
<rb06n85u03ou7ulmd...@4ax.com>, appeared in April of 2013,
over two years ago.

One of the last articles posted to the newsgroup, also in April of 2013,
was from moderator Jim Hurley, with Message ID
<34a5e7a3-a086-4b9e...@googlegroups.com>, seeking
feedback on the continuation of the newsgroup. Some followups were in
favor of continuing the newsgroup, some were in favor of moving to
social media (e.g., Facebook).

DISTRIBUTION:
news.announce.newgroups
news.groups.proposals
rec.ponds.moderated
rec.ponds

CHARTER:

C01 Description and Purpose

Rec.ponds.moderated is a moderated newsgroup that provides a friendly,
respectful forum for the discussion of all aspects of ponds and water
gardens. The rec.ponds.moderated newsgroup appeals to a wide range of
people involved in both the recreational and professional aspects of
establishing and maintaining a pond or water garden. Participants
range from novices to persons with many years of experience, from
amateur hobbyists to professional botanists and ichthyologists, from
students wishing to get help with science projects to retired persons
seeking a quiet, pleasurable pastime. All interested persons are
welcomed to share ideas, ask questions, or simply to lurk and learn.

C02 Permitted Content

Discussions appropriate to a ponding community including, but not
limited to:

* Building a pond/water garden
* Establishing an ecosystem
* Plant life
* Fish
* Amphibians and reptiles
* Aquatic environmental concerns
* Discussions of large, unlined natural ponds

C03 The Following Is Prohibited

All posts containing these items are rejected, and returned with
explanation if permitted by the automated software.

* Obscenities
* Implied or direct threats, slander, insults, bigotry, prejudice
or harassment
* Flaming, trolling, flooding, and personal verbal attacks
* Frequent petty criticism of another poster
* Posts advocating violence or containing physical threats
* Attacks on others based on gender, race, sexual orientation
or religion
* Commercial posts
* Excessive cross-posting, although limited, on-topic cross-posting
is permitted
* Chain letters
* Posts written in HTML
* EMP spam
* Binaries, other than pgp signatures, x-face headers, and other
ancillary article meta-data
* Forgery of names, valid email addresses and/or approval headers
* Excessive morphing/nym shifting ("excessive" is undefined but is
at the discretion of the moderators)
* Excessive quoting of old material, with little new content
(these will be judgment calls made by the moderators)
* Personal identification information associated with anyone other
than the poster (e.g. residential addresses, phone numbers and
government identifications)
* Content advocating acts that would be intrinsically illegal
in most places
* Copyright violations. (However, pointers to news articles,
blogs, etc. that are on-topic are welcome. They must comply with
fair use standards.)

C04 Charter Implementation

The charter of this newsgroup is implemented by a group of moderators.
Their task is to develop and carry out the methods and means necessary
to insure that the stated purposes of the group charter are accomplished.
Their methods shall be defined as Moderation Policy and Practices. (MPP)

Moderators make use of whatever tools and discussion processes they deem
necessary to carry out their responsibilities. One such tool may
include the use of automated moderation software.

C05 Moderation Policy Objectives and Practices

Moderation policy adheres to and carries out the stated goals and
purposes of the group. Moderation policy & practices (MPP) may be
changed by the moderators to meet the ongoing needs of the newsgroup
charter.

Proposed changes are announced by the moderators in the
newsgroup, and newsgroup readers are invited to share and discuss
their views of the proposed changes. Passage of the changes is by a
2/3 majority vote of the moderators. Changes are published in the
newsgroup.

C06 Moderator Standards

Moderators approve or reject posts based upon content as listed in C02
and C03 above. Moderators maintain a standard of neutrality and
non-bias. Moderators do not add, delete, or edit anything within a
post. Tags are not added.

Decisions of the moderation team are final. Moderators permit posts
that may contain technically incorrect information, provided that the
post is not deemed to be deliberately deceptive. Any approved post
that is forwarded to the newsgroup, and contains incorrect information,
may and should be followed up by posts that attempt to correct the
misinformation. Such corrective posts may be made by any interested
person/s in the newsgroup.

All personal posts made by moderators go through the same complete
process as posts made by the general readership of the group.
Moderators do not review their own posts, nor those of a relative.
Moderators who fail to abide by the charter and current moderation
policy may be warned and/or removed by the other moderators.

C07 Moderator Accessibility and Accountability

The moderators provide options for both private and public
interaction with the readership of the newsgroup. An email contact
address is provided for complaints, appeals, reviews and suggestions.
The receipt of emails to the contact address is acknowledged by a
return email, provided a valid return address is given.

In addition, the Charter provides for limited public discussion
of the general issues of moderation policy, group operation and other
matters that affect the group.

Moderators shall create and occasionally publish FAQ and other
documents that promote the functionality of the newsgroup.

C08 Readership Participation & Responsibility

All participants in the group may:

* Request changes to moderation policy and participate in the
discussion of changes.
* Privately ask for all moderators to review a specific rejected
post (within practical numerical limits determined by the
moderators.)
* Nominate new moderators.

END CHARTER.

HISTORY OF THE GROUP:

RESULT
rec.ponds.moderated will be created

The Last Call for Comments on 28 Feb 2007 initiated a five-day period for
final comments. Following this comment period, the Big-8 Management Board
has decided by a vote to create the newsgroup rec.ponds.moderated.

The vote was 8 in favor and 0 opposed. 1 active member did not vote.

This group will be created on 09 Mar 2007.

The group was created shortly afterwards, and continued activity until
April of 2013, after which no further approved articles appeared.

PROPONENT: Paul W. Schleck <psch...@novia.net>

PROCEDURE:

Those who wish to comment on this moderator vacancy investigation should
subscribe to news.groups.proposals and participate in the relevant
threads in that newsgroup. To this end, the followup header of this MVI
has been set to news.groups.proposals.

For more information on the MVI process, please see
http://www.big-8.org/articles/m/o/d/Moderator_Vacancy_Investigations.html

CHANGE HISTORY:

25 April 2015: Moderator Vacancy Investigation

[Paul W. Schleck]

REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group rec.ponds.moderated (remove)

This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) to remove the moderated
newsgroup rec.ponds.moderated.

NEWSGROUPS LINE:
rec.ponds.moderated Care & enjoyment of recreational pods & water gardens. (Moderated)

RATIONALE:
Probe posts to this group result in bounces:

<rpma...@panix.com> (expanded from <rec-ponds...@panix.com>): unknown user: "rpmadmin"

The last article approved by the moderators, with Message ID
<rb06n85u03ou7ulmd...@4ax.com>, appeared in April of 2013,
over two years ago.

One of the last articles posted to the newsgroup, in February of 2013,

was from moderator Jim Hurley, with Message ID
<34a5e7a3-a086-4b9e...@googlegroups.com>, seeking
feedback on the continuation of the newsgroup. Some followups were in
favor of continuing the newsgroup, some were in favor of moving to
social media (e.g., Facebook).

DISCUSSION SO FAR:

In response to the original Moderator Vacancy Investigation, no followup
to news.groups.proposals or rec.ponds has been posted after 15 days,
suggesting that no one is reading rec.ponds.moderated, no one wishes to
volunteer as moderator, or no one objects to its removal, or some
combination of all three.

Those who wish to comment on this request to remove this newsgroup

should subscribe to news.groups.proposals and participate in the
relevant threads in that newsgroup. To this end, the followup header of

this RFD has been set to news.groups.proposals.

For more information on the newsgroup removal process, please see
http://www.big-8.org/articles/p/r/o/Procedure_to_remove_newsgroups.html

CHANGE HISTORY:

25 April 2015: Moderator Vacancy Investigation

10 May 2015: 1st RFD (remove)

[Big 8 Management Board]

2nd REQUEST FOR DISCUSSION (RFD)
moderated group rec.ponds.moderated (remove) - LAST CALL FOR COMMENTS

This is a formal Request for Discussion (RFD) to remove the moderated
newsgroup rec.ponds.moderated.

The B8MB plans to begin voting on this proposal after five days. Please
offer any final discussion or comments before the end of this waiting
period. Voting may take up to one week (7 days); a result will be
posted following the end of the voting period.

All discussion of this proposal should be posted to news.groups.proposals.

For more information on the newsgroup removal process, please see
http://www.big-8.org/articles/p/r/o/Procedure_to_remove_newsgroups.html

NEWSGROUPS LINE:
rec.ponds.moderated Care & enjoyment of recreational pods & water gardens. (Moderated)

RATIONALE:
Probe posts to this group result in bounces:

<rpma...@panix.com> (expanded from <rec-ponds...@panix.com>): unknown user: "rpmadmin"

The last article approved by the moderators, with Message ID
<rb06n85u03ou7ulmd...@4ax.com>, appeared in April of 2013,
over two years ago.

One of the last articles posted to the newsgroup, in February of 2013,
was from moderator Jim Hurley, with Message ID
<34a5e7a3-a086-4b9e...@googlegroups.com>, seeking
feedback on the continuation of the newsgroup. Some followups were in
favor of continuing the newsgroup, some were in favor of moving to
social media (e.g., Facebook).

DISCUSSION SO FAR:

In response to the original Moderator Vacancy Investigation and the 1st
Request for Discussion, no followup to news.groups.proposals or
rec.ponds has been posted volunteering to serve as a replacement
moderator or moderators, or inquiring about volunteering.

CHANGE HISTORY:

25 April 2015: Moderator Vacancy Investigation
10 May 2015: 1st RFD (remove)

25 May 2015: LCC

[Big 8 Management Board]

RESULT
rec.ponds.moderated will be removed

The Last Call for Comments (LCC) on 25 May 2015 initiated a five-day
period for final comments. Following this comment period, the Big 8
Management Board has decided by consensus to remove the group
rec.ponds.moderated.

RATIONALE FOR REMOVAL:

Probe posts to this group result in bounces:

<rpma...@panix.com> (expanded from <rec-ponds...@panix.com>): unknown user: "rpmadmin"

The last article approved by the moderators, with Message ID
<rb06n85u03ou7ulmd...@4ax.com>, appeared in April of 2013,
over two years ago.

One of the last articles posted to the newsgroup, in February of 2013,
was from moderator Jim Hurley, with Message ID
<34a5e7a3-a086-4b9e...@googlegroups.com>, seeking
feedback on the continuation of the newsgroup. Some followups were in
favor of continuing the newsgroup, some were in favor of moving to
social media (e.g., Facebook).

DISCUSSION SO FAR:

There here has been no discussion of the merits of the group and no
posts in support of retaining it or opposed to removal.

DISTRIBUTION:
news.announce.newgroups
news.groups.proposals
rec.ponds.moderated
rec.ponds

NEWSGROUPS LINE:
rec.ponds.moderated Care & enjoyment of recreational pods & water gardens. (Moderated)

7 June 2015: RESULT - group will be removed