Hasselblad Mirror Lock-Up?
Mark Jenkins
feature listed.
Does the 501cm have mirror lock up?
Thanks
Mark
Q.G. de Bakker
> After looking at the specs on the Hasselblad web-site I cannot find this
> feature listed.
>
> Does the 501cm have mirror lock up?
Yes.
And no.
The lever underneath the rewindknob prereleases the camera when pushed up:
the lensshutter and aperture close, the auxilliary shutter opens and the
mirror flips up!
After prereleasing the camera, you (of course) will have to complete the
release cycle using the camera's release button.
After this, you must reset the camera (recock the shutter and wind the film)
and doing this the mirror will come down again!
If you need the mirror to stay up, you'll need a 2000 series camera. These
are the only cameras in the Hasselblad range that allow you to lock the
mirror in the up position.
Mark Jenkins
q...@worldonline.nl wrote on 10/7/00 8:26 AM:
Hmmm. My telescopes do not have lens shutters. When the auxiliary shutter
opens will the exposure begin without even having to use a shutter release
cable? If this is the case then I must use the "hat trick" for starting and
ending my exposures. Something I really want to avoid and it could introduce
vibrations if not done in an extremely precise manner.
I will go look at a 2000 series.
Do you know of any other medium format cameras with mirror lock-up besides
the 2000 series Hasselbald and the Pentax 67?
Thanks
Mark
Mark Jenkins
series but again no mention of mirror lock-up feature.
Thanks
Mark
Q.G. de Bakker
> Hmmm. My telescopes do not have lens shutters. When the auxiliary shutter
> opens will the exposure begin without even having to use a shutter release
> cable? If this is the case then I must use the "hat trick" for starting
and
> ending my exposures. Something I really want to avoid and it could
introduce
> vibrations if not done in an extremely precise manner.
When using optics without shutter exposure will indeed begin when the
auxilliary shutter opens! You can start the exposure by prereleasing the
camera, and end exposure by depressing and releasing the camera's release
button.
It will indeed not be a very safe method to employ if you want to avoid all
kind of unnecessary vibrations.
> I will go look at a 2000 series.
>
> Do you know of any other medium format cameras with mirror lock-up besides
> the 2000 series Hasselbald and the Pentax 67?
Not of hand, no. But perhaps someone else does.
Q.G. de Bakker
> I could not find the 2000 series on the Hasselblad web site. I found the
200
> series but again no mention of mirror lock-up feature.
The 2000 series was discontinued when the 205 TCC was introduced in 1989, so
they wouldn't be listed on Hasselblad's site.
But they are still available used. If interested, avoid the 2000 FC and 2000
FC/M models. The 2000 FCW and 2003 FCW models are save to buy, but *do*
check the shutter curtains for even the slightest sign of damage!
The latest 200 series cameras do not feature mirror lock-up (as mentioned,
the 2000 series do). They however do have mirror prerelease!
Prerelease on the Hasselblad focal plane shutter bodies (2000 and 200
series) involves closing the aperture and flipping up the mirror. The focal
plane shutter of course stays shut until the camera's release button is
pressed.
Mark Jenkins
q...@worldonline.nl wrote on 10/7/00 9:41 AM:
OK, so the 200 series may work but the telescope has no aperture control.
Could I somehow trick the camera into thinking that the aperture was closed
before mounting it on the telescope?
Thanks for all your help on this. I really want (and have wanted since I was
16 years old) a Hasselblad.
Mark
Q.G. de Bakker
> OK, so the 200 series may work but the telescope has no aperture control.
> Could I somehow trick the camera into thinking that the aperture was
closed
> before mounting it on the telescope?
There is no need to trick the camera. The camera operates the lens-aperture
by means of a small mechanical connection (key) between camera and lens.
This key will turn anyway, even though there is nothing it will connect too.
The camera won't mind ;-) You can just put the camera on a telescope, and
start taking pictures, using the prerelease to prevent vibrations ;-)
By the way, all 200-series cameras come with a built-in self-timer. The
self-timer sequence starts with prereleasing the camera, waits for an
appropriate (programmable) time, and makes the exposure. I guess this would
be very usefull to you.
When using a 200-series body with built-in meter, but not the FE lenses
(with electronic data contacts), you must program in the correct aperture
value of the lens/optical device you're using. But perhaps, doing
astrophotography, you will not need to use the built-in meter at all.
> Thanks for all your help on this. I really want (and have wanted since I
was
> 16 years old) a Hasselblad.
They are very expensive though (specially the 200-series), perhaps too
expensive when compared to other MF-cameras, when all you want it to do is
sit on the end of your telescope and hold and expose the film.
Rick Rieger
would be suitable if you're going to shoot through a telescope or other
"foreign" lens. Perhaps someone knows. With my GS-1 (6x7), mirror lockup
is easy and can be left up for one shot or multiple shots, but I don't know
how to make the camera work with anything but a Bronica lens on the front.
It seems to me that a Pentax 67 might be your best bet.
Rick R.
-= H.=-
news:8rn8ca$nrn$1...@nereid.worldonline.nl...
[...]
: If you need the mirror to stay up, you'll need a 2000 series camera. These
: are the only cameras in the Hasselblad range that allow you to lock the
: mirror in the up position.
I thought this was possible with the ELX-models: i.e. shooting with the mirror
up and the auxillary shutters open.
--
Håkan
h dot gunnarsson at ebox dot tninet dot se
Mark Jenkins
q...@worldonline.nl wrote on 10/7/00 10:10 AM:
> They are very expensive though (specially the 200-series), perhaps too
> expensive when compared to other MF-cameras, when all you want it to do is
> sit on the end of your telescope and hold and expose the film.
Well, it's not the only job it would have. I would definitely use it for
other aspects of photography both general and specialty.
Thanks again.
Mark
Steve Gombosi
Mark Jenkins <ma...@pcsincnet.com> wrote:
>Hmmm. My telescopes do not have lens shutters. When the auxiliary shutter
>opens will the exposure begin without even having to use a shutter release
>cable? If this is the case then I must use the "hat trick" for starting and
That's correct. The 5xx Hasselblads don't really have a "lockup",
they have a "prerelease". Hitting the prerelease causes:
1) The lens shutter to close and the aperture to stop down
(if you have a Hasselblad lens on)
1) The mirror to go up
3) The auxiliary shutter (rear baffle) to open
Are you sure you need to lockup? How long are your exposures?
If they're over 1/2 second or so, I don't think the mirror vibration
will be much of a factor - it should damp down quickly enough that it
won't really affect your results. Mirror slap is usually only a
problem in the 1/4-1/60 sec. range, in my experience.
If your exposures are shorter, you might want to see if you could
obtain the Hasselblad Microscope Shutter. It's basically the shutter
mechanism and controls from a C lens without any optics. It's
designed for exactly this sort of application. I don't know if
they still make it, but I've seen them on the used market from
time to time.
Steve
Steve Gombosi
Mark Jenkins <ma...@pcsincnet.com> wrote:
>I could not find the 2000 series on the Hasselblad web site. I found the 200
>series but again no mention of mirror lock-up feature.
Bothe the 2000 and 200 series FP shutter cameras have true mirror
lockup.
The 200 series is the successor product to the 2000 series. If you get
a used 2000-series camera, do *not* get a 2000FC - get a 2000FC/M or
FC/W. The 2000FC cameras are prone to shutter damage when changing film
magazines: the FP shutter curtains are very thin titanium foil and are
easily dented or even punctured by a misplaced thumb. The later FC/M
and FC/W cameras incorporate a mechanism which causes the shutter to
open when the magazine is removed, thus protecting the shutter
curtain.
BTW:
The FP shutter in the 2000 cameras produces a helluva lot of vibration
all by itself.
Steve
Q.G. de Bakker
> : If you need the mirror to stay up, you'll need a 2000 series camera.
These
> : are the only cameras in the Hasselblad range that allow you to lock the
> : mirror in the up position.
>
> I thought this was possible with the ELX-models: i.e. shooting with the
mirror
> up and the auxillary shutters open.
Yes, all EL-models do have prerelease ("S" = speed and "SR" = spreed repeat
modes).
In S-mode, the camera enters the prereleased state just as the 500 C models.
But in SR-mode, contrary to what one might believe, what really happens is
that the camera is prereleased, the exposure is made by you pressing the
release button, and when taking off the pressure from the release button,
the camera automatically rewinds film, cocks the shutter, *returns the
mirror to the down position* (!), and quickly re-enters prerelease... The
mirror will *not* be locked up: it will definitely return between shots.
So the EL-models too have mirror pre-release, but no true mirror lock. Only
the 2000 series cameras do.
Q.G. de Bakker
> Yes, all EL-models do have prerelease ("S" = speed and "SR" = spreed
repeat
> modes).
>
> In S-mode, the camera enters the prereleased state just as the 500 C
models.
>
> But in SR-mode, contrary to what one might believe, what really happens is
> that the camera is prereleased, the exposure is made by you pressing the
> release button, and when taking off the pressure from the release button,
> the camera automatically rewinds film, cocks the shutter, *returns the
> mirror to the down position* (!), and quickly re-enters prerelease... The
> mirror will *not* be locked up: it will definitely return between shots.
>
> So the EL-models too have mirror pre-release, but no true mirror lock.
Only
> the 2000 series cameras do.
And i forgot about the AS (Automatic Speed) mode. It will do the same as in
SR mode, but will do so as long as you keep the release button depressed.
I hate to use the A and AS modes on the EL-models: there is no way the
camera can tell when the lens shutter has finished its cycle, so it starts
to rewind and recock whenever it, the camera, feels it is time to do so.
This works o.k. with fast shutterspeeds, and Hasselblad does tell us when
not to use this mode, and it won't even damage anything when using too long
shutter speeds. But somehow i still don't like this lack of coördination
between lens and body...
That's why i forgot about AS mode. ;-)
Q.G. de Bakker
> Do you know of any other medium format cameras with mirror lock-up besides
> the 2000 series Hasselbald and the Pentax 67?
I was told by email that:
"Mamiya 645 series, for example. 645 Pro TL has it, and my 645E has a mirror
LU lever as well."
Vick Ko
camera body. If you push up on the tab, the mirror flips up but
the shutter won't fire.
The older 500's have this.
Vick
Mark Jenkins wrote:
> After looking at the specs on the Hasselblad web-site I cannot find this
> feature listed.
>
> Does the 501cm have mirror lock up?
>
> Thanks
>
> Mark
Q.G. de Bakker
> There should be a small push-tab next to the winding knob of the
> camera body. If you push up on the tab, the mirror flips up but
> the shutter won't fire.
>
> The older 500's have this.
All 500's have this.
Q.G. de Bakker
> Bothe the 2000 and 200 series FP shutter cameras have true mirror
> lockup.
Both? Are you sure about this?
> The 200 series is the successor product to the 2000 series. If you get
> a used 2000-series camera, do *not* get a 2000FC - get a 2000FC/M or
> FC/W. The 2000FC cameras are prone to shutter damage when changing film
> magazines: the FP shutter curtains are very thin titanium foil and are
> easily dented or even punctured by a misplaced thumb. The later FC/M
> and FC/W cameras incorporate a mechanism which causes the shutter to
> open when the magazine is removed, thus protecting the shutter
> curtain.
Don't get a 2000 FC/M. Repairs are no longer possible, and the shutter
mechanism in the FCW models was improved.
> BTW:
> The FP shutter in the 2000 cameras produces a helluva lot of vibration
> all by itself.
But still within reasonable limits.
nathantw
"Steve Gombosi" <s...@niwot.scd.ucar.edu> wrote in message
news:8rnjlp$1da$1...@niwot.scd.ucar.edu...
> In article <B6049BFA.218FC%ma...@pcsincnet.com>,
Q.G. de Bakker
> The 553ELX also has "auto" mirror lockup after each exposure.
It has, as one of its modes, auto "mirror-down-and-up-again" after each
exposure.
Not "mirror-up-and-stay-up", i.e. mirror lock-up.
-= H.=-
says...
Is it a bug or feature...?
Q.G. de Bakker
> Is it a bug or feature...?
It's rather silly... ;-)
nathantw
to cycle through its process. The way you make it sound it appears that the
mirror up position is useless. It is far from it. It behaves just like a
500-series camera when you pop the mirror up, but is more convenient because
after the exposure it pops it back up and you're able to take pictures up to
1.3fps in continuous mode. That's not a blazing speed demon, but hey, it
beats moving the camera when its on the tripod while winding the film to the
next frame.
"Q.G. de Bakker" <q...@worldonline.nl> wrote in message
news:8s82ed$8l6$4...@nereid.worldonline.nl...
-= H.=-
<nathantw(removemthis)@(nospam)ispchannel.com> says...
: Yes it does do what you say, up/down/then back up, but that's because it has
: to cycle through its process. The way you make it sound it appears that the
: mirror up position is useless. It is far from it. It behaves just like a
: 500-series camera when you pop the mirror up, but is more convenient because
: after the exposure it pops it back up and you're able to take pictures up to
: 1.3fps in continuous mode. That's not a blazing speed demon, but hey, it
: beats moving the camera when its on the tripod while winding the film to the
: next frame.
It's beyond me why it wasn't designed so that the mirror stayed up while
shooting multiple exposures in a row; is it the mechanical design that
prevents it, or what?
: "Q.G. de Bakker" <q...@worldonline.nl> wrote in message
: news:8s82ed$8l6$4...@nereid.worldonline.nl...
: > nathantw wrote:
: >
: > > The 553ELX also has "auto" mirror lockup after each exposure.
: >
: > It has, as one of its modes, auto "mirror-down-and-up-again" after each
: > exposure.
: > Not "mirror-up-and-stay-up", i.e. mirror lock-up.
--
Håkan
h dot gunnarsson at ebox dot tninet dot se
=== West Coast is Best Coast ===
Q.G. de Bakker
> It's beyond me why it wasn't designed so that the mirror stayed up while
> shooting multiple exposures in a row; is it the mechanical design that
> prevents it, or what?
It's a matter of convenience: it was far easier to do it they way they have
chosen to do it.
Just take a normal 500 camera mechanism (after all, the ELs must function as
a normal camera, i.e. trip the release, complete the cycle, and reset the
camera, mirror and all), add a motor to take care of the physical act of
rotating the gears, and you're (almost) done.
If you want prerelease, just add an extra release mechanism that will trip
the camera as normal, but include a catch that will stop the release cycle
at the right moment. The difference between the normal release and the
prerelease is that the normal release does trip this catch as well. A simple
thing to do. And you'll need it anyway, motorized body or not. And remember,
this mechanism was included in the non-motorized cameras, so there was no
extra work involved.
Now, having a camera with motorized wind offers the opportunity to introduce
a sequence mode (as a matter of fact, the "sequence" ("Repeat") mode was the
simple thing you got after adding a motor: there was a need to add a catch
to *prevent* the camera to start the release cycle again and again while the
release was depressed, i.e. to achieve a "single" mode. This is the first
*extra* feature (obviously apart from the motor and the mechanical coupling
between motor and camera gears) that was necessitated by adding the motor.
So now you're done: you can stop your design efforts right here.
But if you stop here, you'll end up with a rather peculiar prerelease mode.
In "single" mode it operates as usual: first tripping the release and start
its cycle until it catches, and then tripping the catch, completing the
cycle. The motor will subsequently reset the camera (and mirror!).
In "sequence" mode, since there was no effort made to add a mechanism to
disengage the mirror, we end up with a rather silly sequence, returning the
mirror to its down-position and quickly flipping it up again between
exposures. The difference between the normal "sequence" mode ("A" mode) and
the prerelease "sequence" mode ("AS" mode) is only the state the camera is
in *after* the sequence of exposures has terminated. Both modes put the
mirror through a full down-up-down cycle between exposures...
But talk about silly: the "off" position ("lock") on the ELs does not
actually disconnect power to the circuit. It just blocks a clutch arm,
preventing camera operation. So if you'd keep the release depressed with the
camera in the "lock" position, eventually your battery will run down.
Q.G. de Bakker
> [...]
> Now, having a camera with motorized wind offers the opportunity to
introduce
> a sequence mode (as a matter of fact, the "sequence" ("Repeat") mode [...]
Bad enough me making a mess of the English language. So now i had to have a
go at mixing up operation modes on the EL-cameras as well?
I, of course, meant to say "the "sequence" ("Automatic") mode"
nathantw
> actually disconnect power to the circuit. It just blocks a clutch arm,
> preventing camera operation. So if you'd keep the release depressed with
the
> camera in the "lock" position, eventually your battery will run down.
Now that's something I DIDN'T know about. I basically just use the darkslide
as the camera lock.