American vs German Vintage lenses. (Maybe starting a war)
Lyndon Fletcher
vintage and folding MF cameras as a low cost introduction to MF or for
special uses. I am especially interested in folding cameras due to
their relative cheapness and compact size. In recent month I have seen
the value of GERMAN made MF folders skyrocket. Some of the posts on
the MF pages talk about Bessa II's in the $25 range..... well not any
more (at least not on ebay).
I was wondering if anyone had done a serious comparison of the
relative lens qualities between German and American folders? I am
aware that the Ektars are amongst the finest lenses made anywhere but
what about the Anastigmat Specials the Anastons and the like? How do
these American lenses compare with each other and with their German
rivals?
How does the Ektar compare with the Anastigmat Special? How do either
of these lenses compare with the Zeiss Tessar or the color Skopar?
How do the Anastons compare with say the Nettar or the Vaskar?
With Bessas and Ikontas now costing as much as some complete 35mm
outfits perhaps it's time to start learning to reroll 120 film onto
620 spools and find out more about the American cameras?
Lyndon
Lyndon Fletcher
>x-no-archive: yes
>
>>I was wondering if anyone had done a serious comparison of the
>>relative lens qualities between German and American folders? I am
>>aware that the Ektars are amongst the finest lenses made anywhere but
>>what about the Anastigmat Specials the Anastons and the like? How do
>>these American lenses compare with each other and with their German
>>rivals?
>>
>>How does the Ektar compare with the Anastigmat Special? How do either
>>of these lenses compare with the Zeiss Tessar or the color Skopar?
>>How do the Anastons compare with say the Nettar or the Vaskar?
>>
>>With Bessas and Ikontas now costing as much as some complete 35mm
>>outfits perhaps it's time to start learning to reroll 120 film onto
>>620 spools and find out more about the American cameras?
>>
>>
>>Lyndon
>
>The Tessar, Kodak Anastigmat Special, and Skopar are 4 element lenses. The
>Vaskar, Nettar, Schneider Radionar, and Anaston are 3 element lenses.
Yup, I was aware of this, which was why I grouped the lenses as I did.
However there seems to be a difference in the quality of designs which
have the same number of elements. For example, I have seen a number of
posts recommending the Kodak Anaston and I've seen other posts
suggesting that Zeiss Nettar cameras are not worth the price of a CLA
because the lens is so poor.
I have also seen posts that say that a Cooke Triplet design is quite
sharp closed down and other posts suggesting that Tessars are soft
above f6.3. As a lens newby I would like to get some feelings on the
various merits.
Right now a Moskva 4 or 5 would seem my ideal camera (though these are
starting to get expensive too) just because the feature set matches my
needs. I am not a camera collector and so would not really want to pay
collectors prices. There are a lot of cheap American folders, mainly
because 620 film is obsolete, with a wide range of lens shutter
combo's in the same model. There are other similar models that could
perhaps donate parts to update cameras that have other usefull
features. Being able to know who these lenses stack up against their
German rivals would be very usefull.
Lyndon
>
>When it comes to re-rolling film - why? Just get your Dremel MotoTool and
>grind away the extra metal in the film spool area so a 120 roll will fit.
>
>Joseph.
Mark Langer
> I was wondering if anyone had done a serious comparison of the
> relative lens qualities between German and American folders?
Lyndon,
I have a lot of old folders and have found that there are no hard and fast
rules about one lens being better than another. A lot depends on sample
variation and whether the lens focus and rangefinder on yours have been
properly calibrated.
Based on my own experience and that of friends, there are still great
bargains in both American and European folders. The Kodak Duo 620 and the
Monitor offer great performance for budget prices, if you don't mind
respooling. I have a Bessa II w. Heliar and a passel of Super Ikontas,
etc, but one of my favourite cameras is a Ansco Titan, which has what I
believe to be a 3 element lens in a shutter going up to 1/400th. I paid
$20 for mine several years ago, and I doubt you would ever have to pay more
than $50 for one at the most expensive dealer today. By any measure, it is
very well built, with a better finish and bellows than its lookalike Agfa
cousings. The pictures it produces are every bit as sharp and contrasty as
those from cameras worth far more money. But there are lots of modestly
priced cameras that are overlooked by folder snobs. I've had very good
results with Agfa Agnars and Apotars if stopped down a bit, for example.
Don't limit youself to cameras with coated lenses. There are few air to
glass surfaces on three and four element lenses, and any tendency to
flare is easily handled by using a lens hood, which you should be using
anyway. More exotic glass can be picked up by buying Weltas, Baldas or Certos,
particularly if you can fix up a sticky shutter yourself. I just got a Balda
with 75mm f2.8 Tessar in Compur shutter for $25. Several months ago, I
got a Certo that converts from 6x6 to 4.5x6 for $60 and a Welta Perle
4.5x6 for $40. Both have 75mm f2.8 Xenars in Compur shutters and both
have build quality similar to that of Zeiss folders. There is no magic in
locating these -- the Certo and Welta were on eBay. Just be patient and
keep looking. There are plenty of great medium format cameras that can
still be picked up for a song. Well, at least for the time being. I get
the feeling that shooting my mouth off in newsgroups like this is going to
drive up the prices of these great old folders.
Mark
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Langer
Email address: mla...@ccs.carleton.ca
----------------------------------------------------------------------
wcm...@ibm.net
>
> I've been reading this group for a while, mainly looking at the
> vintage and folding MF cameras as a low cost introduction to MF or for
> special uses. I am especially interested in folding cameras due to
> their relative cheapness and compact size. In recent month I have seen
> the value of GERMAN made MF folders skyrocket. Some of the posts on
> the MF pages talk about Bessa II's in the $25 range..... well not any
> more (at least not on ebay).
>
> aware that the Ektars are amongst the finest lenses made anywhere but
> what about the Anastigmat Specials the Anastons and the like? How do
> these American lenses compare with each other and with their German
> rivals?
>
> How does the Ektar compare with the Anastigmat Special? How do either
> of these lenses compare with the Zeiss Tessar or the color Skopar?
> How do the Anastons compare with say the Nettar or the Vaskar?
>
> With Bessas and Ikontas now costing as much as some complete 35mm
> outfits perhaps it's time to start learning to reroll 120 film onto
> 620 spools and find out more about the American cameras?
>
> Lyndon
Well, I have a Zeiss f2.8 100mm Tessar and a 101mm f4.5 Kodak Ektar for
my 6x9 graphic. I'm not even sure where I put the Tessar, after I quit
using it a couple of years ago. I have a 10-inch Ilex Portronic for the
same camera, and it takes beautiful pictures.
Bill Martin
Richard Koser
>
> I've been reading this group for a while, mainly looking at the
> vintage and folding MF cameras as a low cost introduction to MF or for
> special uses. I am especially interested in folding cameras due to
> their relative cheapness and compact size. In recent month I have seen
> the value of GERMAN made MF folders skyrocket. Some of the posts on
> the MF pages talk about Bessa II's in the $25 range..... well not any
> more (at least not on ebay).
>
> I was wondering if anyone had done a serious comparison of the
> relative lens qualities between German and American folders? I am
> aware that the Ektars are amongst the finest lenses made anywhere but
> what about the Anastigmat Specials the Anastons and the like? How do
> these American lenses compare with each other and with their German
> rivals?
>
> How does the Ektar compare with the Anastigmat Special? How do either
> of these lenses compare with the Zeiss Tessar or the color Skopar?
> How do the Anastons compare with say the Nettar or the Vaskar?
>
> With Bessas and Ikontas now costing as much as some complete 35mm
> outfits perhaps it's time to start learning to reroll 120 film onto
> 620 spools and find out more about the American cameras?
>
> Lyndon
Read: Collecting & Using Classic SLRs. Matanle, Ivor, 1997, ISBN:
0500279012, Thames & Hudson, London. If is not on your local library
shelf, they can usually get it for you by interlibrary loan.
Lens quality of many of the old cameras is mentioned.
-RK-
--
Richard Koser
Croton Falls, NY
10519-0639 USA
rkoser<sniphere>@worldnet.att.net
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