Tell me about these Hasselblad "V"s
Mxsmanic
its images to make its cameras distinctive, or is that just an urban
legend? In the former case, what prevents some other company from doing
it? And in the latter case, what purpose do the notches serve? Is
there a technical reason why they are there? I notice indentations at
each corner of the image, too, but I guess those are present on all MF
cameras (?).
r.emmanuelli
"Mxsmanic" <mxsm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:M2Mm8.14011$7b.11...@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
Mike
I doubt that this "notch" has been copyrighted so I guess that it
could be copied. My Bronica ETR-S also has two very distinctive
notches at the bottom of the frame, but the Mamiya C330 dies not have
any.
Mike
On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:59:40 GMT, "Mxsmanic" <mxsm...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
Mxsmanic
is there some simple technical reason for their presence?
"Mike" <mki...@nospampacbell.net> wrote in message
news:3c9b958f...@news.sf.sbcglobal.net...
Robert Monaghan
those vees are there quite simply to enable viewers of your film
(negatives or unmounted slides), esp. art directors etc., to know
that you took the photo with a hasselblad back, and therefore by
assumption, with a hasselblad lens ;-) Seriously. Many art directors want
to know you are at least using professional equipment whose price somehow
corresponds to your (and their) daily rates ;-) Without the vees, you
couldn't tell, nor could they, so the vees are put there so they can tell!
other kits like my koni omega backs have a series of backs with markings;
you can mask one or more of them off, so if you are using multiple backs,
you can instantly tell which back has a problem with spacing or light
leaks and all that. But no such setup is on the hassy backs, they are just
setup like that so folks in the know can tell at a glance you used a 'blad
that's why it was so funny to find out that the bronica ads had been shot
with the hasselblad camera due to the tell-tale Vees in them, see
QG de Bakker's example with vees at
http://people.smu.edu/rmonagha/mf/photoads.html ;-)
bobm
--
* Robert Monaghan POB752182 Southern Methodist University, Dallas Tx 75275 *
* Third Party 35mm Lenses: http://people.smu.edu/rmonagha/third/index.html *
* Medium Format Cameras: http://people.smu.edu/rmonagha/mf/index.html *
DKFletcher
to know you are at least using professional equipment whose price somehow
corresponds to your (and their) daily rates ;-) Without the vees, you
couldn't tell, nor could they, so the vees are put there so they can tell!
Your kidding right, who are you shooting for?
eMeL
news:20020322181728...@mb-fi.aol.com...
I don't believe he's kidding...With all due respect to all good art
directors out there, there are FAR to many certifiable idiots among them.
I've been asked the "H" question ("Hassy...right..?...I knew that...what a
clarity..!") many times...
As an aside, many cameras put some kind of a marker on film, say, Konica
Hexar (two notches...)
Michael
Q.G. de Bakker
> > its images to make its cameras distinctive, or is that just an urban
> > legend? In the former case, what prevents some other company from doing
> > it? And in the latter case, what purpose do the notches serve? Is
> > there a technical reason why they are there? I notice indentations at
> > each corner of the image, too, but I guess those are present on all MF
> > cameras (?).
Mxsmanic's post did not appear (yet) on my newsserver, so i'll attach my
response here.
The two notches are indeed added on purpose to identify Hasselblad
photographs. A marketing thing (which works very well).
And that is precisely why they do not need protection by patent: any other
manufacturer copying them, in doing so, would show themselves wanting to
copy Hasselblad. And if you think and want to convince the general public,
that your product is better than that of any competitor, why copy? Bronica,
always targeting their add campaigns against Hasselblad, once made the
mistake to publish a photo in one of their brochures that show those two
distinct "V"-marks. The message this is sending is that Bronicas aren't good
enough to shoot Bronica brochure photos.
You can carve extra notches to identify individual backs. Can be useful when
problems occur.
The "indentation" is the corner are caused by the (end of the) rollers. They
are indeed present in all rollfilm cameras having a similar roller
arangement.
DKFletcher
directors out there, there are FAR to many certifiable idiots among them.
I've been asked the "H" question ("Hassy...right..?...I knew that...what a
clarity..!") many times...
I still don't buy it, next time ask them why they want hasselblad, and see what
they say. Don't get me wrong I shoot with hasselblad and wouldn't switch for
the world but the only time an art director asked me about a camera he looked
and the blad and said"is that a mamiya?" He was from a very (very) large
agency.
Bob Gurfinkel
>directors out there, there are FAR to many certifiable idiots among them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------
I shudder to think what you might have called them if you hadn't offered them
all due respect!
At any rate, the real reson for those Vs is that Hasselblad used to run photo
contests
The pictures had to be taken with Hasselblad equipment and the negatives
provided to confirm that the Vs were there
The grand prize was a Keystone Instamatic camera, as I recall
( just kidding! )
Bob G.
Bob Gurfinkel
>manufacturer copying them, in doing so, would show themselves wanting to
>copy Hasselblad. And if you think and want to convince the general public,
>that your product is better than that of any competitor, why copy?
---------------------------
You're making the Russians laugh
Bob G.
Mxsmanic
news:a7gdqs$tcs$1...@post.cis.smu.edu...
> those vees are there quite simply to enable viewers
> of your film (negatives or unmounted slides), esp.
> art directors etc., to know that you took the photo
> with a hasselblad back, and therefore by assumption,
> with a hasselblad lens ;-) Seriously.
Hasselblad actually admits this?
What prevents other manufacturers from putting exactly the same vees
into their backs?
Does this mean that I should include borders of images on my scans, so
that I can prove to buyers that I scanned from a negative or slide shot
with a Hasselblad?
> Many art directors want to know you are at least
> using professional equipment whose price somehow
> corresponds to your (and their) daily rates ;-)
I'll charge extra for scans that include the vees.
> that's why it was so funny to find out that the
> bronica ads had been shot with the hasselblad
> camera due to the tell-tale Vees in them, see
> QG de Bakker's example with vees at
> http://people.smu.edu/rmonagha/mf/photoads.html ;-)
I don't understand why other vendors would not simply duplicate the
vees. It would be extremely easy. Heck, even a few minutes with
Photoshop would produce good imitations. Why, a scheming photographer
could probably even create his own on a film back with a few minutes and
a little Dremel electric tool.
Mxsmanic
news:20020322212154...@mb-cf.news.cs.com...
> You're making the Russians laugh
Are there Russian cameras that duplicate the Hasselblad vees?
Robert Monaghan
NOt AFAIK, though the new Kiev NT backs for hasselblad are able to mount
on the hasselblads, work as an auto-back, are reportedly quite flat, and
sell for only $99 new from some USA dealers (with warranty..). Sure beats
B&H $895 for the official version with the vees ;-) Ditto polaroid back...
Now I would bet that the East Wind clones of the hasselblad 500c might
have such vees in their backs, but don't know of any photos that would
prove it either way ;-)
grins bobm
John Stafford
> My Hasselblad puts two "V" shaped notches on the side of the negative.
>
> I doubt that this "notch" has been copyrighted so I guess that it
Can't be copyrighted, but it can be trademarked. I'll bet that
Hasselblad would have little trouble getting that trademark, if they
don't already have such a filing.
eMeL
> ..
> I don't understand why other vendors would not simply duplicate the
> vees. It would be extremely easy. Heck, even a few minutes with
> Photoshop would produce good imitations. Why, a scheming photographer
> could probably even create his own on a film back with a few minutes and
> a little Dremel electric tool.
Look, Assembled - regardless of the presence or absence the "vees" also
delivers consistent quality...I can imagine that many a Kiev user would be
tempted, though, to add the "vees..." <bfg>
By including the "vees" Bronica, Rollei or Mamiya would be admitting that
they are second stringers and need to "be just like Assembled..." Not good,
right?
But.... I used to have my own notches on the Hassy back, made with a small
file, to identify the back the film was exposed in - very helpful if there
were problems with the film (flatness, frame spacing, etc.) I have
"notches" on all my 4x5 inch film holders (and the matching dots on the dark
slides) to keep notes about my exposure and processing requirements...
As an aside, I - after years and years of using Assembled- have become a
Very Happy Rolleiflex 6008i user and now consider the Hassy 50x a wonderful
museum piece, far behind the technological tour de force of Rollei 6008i :-)
Not that you cannot get a comparable quality with a Hassy 50x, because you
can, but the camera is clunky comparing to any model in the Rollei 600x
family.
Michael
Milburne Drysdale
viewing the finished photo because they would normally be edited from
the image when the frame is cropped. Only the diletanttes and studly
students exhibit prints with the "verification" frame not cropped from
view.
The notches (always on the left side of the frame) are placed there
for a very good reason. Since the shooting format is square, the
photographer cannot determine by looking at a film whether the frame
was shot horizontally or vertically. The notches allow him/her/it to
identify the orientation of the camera.
By the way, the shape of those marks has nothing to do with "Victor".
It derived from a phrase which Hassie himself had learned as a young
man whilst studying in Spain. And "Buenos Notches" remained his motto
til the end.
aaaaaahhhh......
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to
listen to the rantings of those who can."
eMeL
Of course, Assembled = Hasselblad...Stupid spell checker :-)
Michael
David Meiland
Ahhh... I though you were just using a tongue in cheek phrase there
for some reason.
---
David Meiland
Oakland, California
http://davidmeiland.com/
**Check the reply address before sending mail
Mxsmanic
news:ef8b745.02032...@posting.google.com...
> Can't be copyrighted, but it can be trademarked.
I'm not at all sure of that.
Mxsmanic
news:u9pbdko...@corp.supernews.com...
> Not that you cannot get a comparable quality with
> a Hassy 50x, because you can, but the camera is clunky
> comparing to any model in the Rollei 600x family.
I rejected the Rollei because of its higher cost and especially because
it required batteries in order to do anything.
eMeL
???
Higher cost??? Not in the States... 6008i cost a fraction of a high end
Hasselblad and even the most sophisticated Hasselblad doesn't hold the
candle to 6008i in terms of features...And this clunky "no-nos" with the
Hassy (matching film inserts nonsense, don't dismount the lens when...etc.
drove me to drinking...) Mind it, before I made the switch I had been a
happy Hassy user for over 20 years, not some kind of a fly-by-night
gear-head...In fact, I've selected Rollei because in my experience it is
simpler and more elegant in terms of technology than the Hassy (internal
dark slide magazines, integrated OTF flash, electrical lens coupling, ...)
And the batteries ain't as bad as the rumor has it... I have yet to run out
of juice (granted, I have two bodies 6008i and 6001 which use identical
batteries...) and have yet to use the cigarette charger purchased "just in
case..." And I've traveled with my Rollei rig all over the world.
Michael
Mxsmanic
> Not in the States... 6008i cost a fraction of a
> high end Hasselblad ...
But a 6008 kit costs $1300 (39%) more than a 501CM kit ($4400 vs.
$3175).
> ... and even the most sophisticated Hasselblad
> doesn't hold the candle to 6008i in terms of
> features...
I've had my fill of "features." I just need a reliable box with a good
lens.
> ... In fact, I've selected Rollei because in my
> experience it is simpler and more elegant in
> terms of technology than the Hassy ...
Maybe, but if I had wanted technology, I would have bought another 35mm
SLR.
> And the batteries ain't as bad as the rumor
> has it...
The 501CM requires no batteries.
Overall Hasselblad seemed like a better deal for getting into MF.
eMeL
> "eMeL" <badb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:u9qi1eg...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> > Not in the States... 6008i cost a fraction of a
> > high end Hasselblad ...
>
> But a 6008 kit costs $1300 (39%) more than a 501CM kit ($4400 vs.
> $3175).
???
In terms of features Hasselblad 501CM is not comparable even with the
entry-level Rolleiflex 6001 and the is more expensive (6001kit - $2700, 501
CM kit - $3200.00)
A 6008i kit (body, 120 back, 2.8/80 Planar) will set you back $3000.00, plus
1100 for the master control unit for the grand total of $4100. A comparable
Hasselblad 203 FE kit costs over $6200.00 (plus 1000.00 for the winder-
total 7300.00 smackers!) and still falls short in terms of features
comparing to the 6008i.)
A 6001 (comparable to 555 ELD) kit costs $2700 vs. $3300.00 body only for
the 555 ELD (+ $1800 for the 2.8/80 lens and another $900 for a back. Total?
Close to $6000.00.) Even the 503 with winder is almost twice as expensive
as the 6001.
I'm not arguing with your choices of cameras, just with your quoted prices.
I was very happy with a Hasselblad until I used a 6008 for a couple of
weeks.
;-)
Michael
bachch...@my-deja.com
Drysdale) wrote:
>The notches (always on the left side of the frame) are placed there
>for a very good reason. Since the shooting format is square, the
>photographer cannot determine by looking at a film whether the frame
>was shot horizontally or vertically. The notches allow him/her/it to
>identify the orientation of the camera.
Yep, those notches tell people whether the square frame
was shot horizontally or vertically. Hasselblad a potential nominee
for a Nobel Prize in Mathematics (as in geometry) for showing the
difference between a vertical square and a horizontal one? (thus
demonstrating the need for rotating the square frame/camera 90 degrees
when shooting certain subjects.)
Andrew
Mxsmanic
> In terms of features Hasselblad 501CM is not
> comparable even with the entry-level Rolleiflex
> 6001 and the is more expensive (6001kit - $2700, 501
> CM kit - $3200.00)
As I've tried to make clear, the additional features of the Rollei do
not interest me. I know how to measure and set exposure myself, and I
can focus manually.
> I'm not arguing with your choices of cameras,
> just with your quoted prices.
I got them off the B&H site.
> I was very happy with a Hasselblad until I used
> a 6008 for a couple of weeks.
Thus far, I'm very happy with Hasselblad, period. I'm saving money for
more lenses now.
Q.G. de Bakker
> ???
> In terms of features Hasselblad 501CM is not comparable even with the
> entry-level Rolleiflex 6001 and the is more expensive (6001kit - $2700,
501
> CM kit - $3200.00)
You might want to consider that to many photographers not having a bundle of
features is perhaps the best feature a camera can have. The really, really
usefull 'features' are inside your head. ;-)
My first question about anything automatic is "where is the off-switch". If
there isn't one, the thing definitely is one feature short.
But then, what am i? A fool? I don't know... ;-)
Q.G. de Bakker
> Yep, those notches tell people whether the square frame
> was shot horizontally or vertically. Hasselblad a potential nominee
> for a Nobel Prize in Mathematics (as in geometry) for showing the
> difference between a vertical square and a horizontal one? (thus
> demonstrating the need for rotating the square frame/camera 90 degrees
> when shooting certain subjects.)
Indeed.
That's why Hasselblad, after trying to produce such a thing himself since
1953, finally came to ask Henshold ro produce a 90 degrees prism finder. A
definite must-have when shooting vertical squares (or was it horizontal? You
see, i never mastered the art of geometrics.) Once this prism was made
available in 1960, Hasselblad's sales figures went through the roof.
Sadly, the art of rotating squares is now almost lost entirely (that, and
the art of scanning the latent image (which was very useful since it cut out
the watery mess we all make when trying to "develop" it. Not surprising that
it isn't with us anymore though, since when this art flourished computers
and scanners had not been invented yet. So perhaps now is the time to revive
this ancient technique?)), but the 45 degree prism is a remnant, though
hardly ever recognized as such, of it. Think of it, why else such an odd
angle? You're looking in the direction of your subject, but not quite. And
you're looking in the direction of your ground glass, but (again) not quite.
But, not by coīncedence, 45 degrees is well loved in the world of
geometrics. Yes, the clues are there, if you know where to look for them...!
eMeL
news:a7lie3$fkr$1...@reader1.tiscali.nl...
> eMeL wrote:
>
> > ???
> > In terms of features Hasselblad 501CM is not comparable even with the
> > entry-level Rolleiflex 6001 and the is more expensive (6001kit - $2700,
> 501
> > CM kit - $3200.00)
>
> You might want to consider that to many photographers not having a bundle
of
> features is perhaps the best feature a camera can have. The really, really
> usefull 'features' are inside your head. ;-)
Yep... Then why not use a Holga to do catalogue shots..?
> My first question about anything automatic is "where is the off-switch".
If
> there isn't one, the thing definitely is one feature short.
> But then, what am i? A fool? I don't know... ;-)
Well...to each...
With the 6008i and its master unit the camera is very customizable...Say, I
do plenty of table-top shooting...I set my mirror to lock up before each
shot...Automation - if used correctly - adds to your so-called "photographic
experience" so you can use what's between your ears to "create" stuff
(whatever that means to ya...) instead of performing such "creative" tasks
like film transport or manual exposure bracketing... Ah, Luddites,
Luddites...
;-)
Good shooting (auto or manual)
Michael
Stephe
This from someone who claims an F5 is the 35mm of choice....
--
stephe
Mxsmanic
news:a7lie3$fkr$1...@reader1.tiscali.nl...
> My first question about anything automatic is
> "where is the off-switch". If there isn't one,
> the thing definitely is one feature short.
I'm having trouble conditioning myself to just put the Hasselblad away
when I'm done shooting with it. I'm so used to being required to turn
something _off_ before storing a camera that I keep thinking I've
forgotten something with the 'blad. But of course there is nothing to
forget, and nothing to turn off. That's nice.
Mxsmanic
> Yep... Then why not use a Holga to do
> catalogue shots..?
Because it isn't built as well.
> ... instead of performing such "creative" tasks
> like film transport or manual exposure bracketing...
I've never found advancing the film to be a tremendous intellectual
distraction. And I don't bracket; instead I just measure the scene
carefully with a spot meter if I think it may require special attention
for exposure.
Mxsmanic
news:a7md0c$m2bje$1...@ID-52908.news.dfncis.de...
> This from someone who claims an F5 is the
> 35mm of choice....
The 35mm SLR of choice, yes. But a Leica works just as well in 35mm.
Which camera you use depends on the type of shooting you are doing. I
would not shoot a fashion show with anything other than my F5, but the
M6 is great for street photography, portraits, and more relaxed shooting
in general, and I expect that the 501CM will be best for scenics and
portrait work as well, where there is plenty of time to set up a shot.
Dr. Peter Ochmann
> Well...to each...
> With the 6008i and its master unit the camera is very customizable...Say, I
> do plenty of table-top shooting...I set my mirror to lock up before each
> shot...Automation - if used correctly - adds to your so-called "photographic
> experience" so you can use what's between your ears to "create" stuff
> (whatever that means to ya...) instead of performing such "creative" tasks
> like film transport or manual exposure bracketing... Ah, Luddites,
> Luddites...
help of Samsung, will have some problems with the big "AF-Burger".
Peter
Q.G. de Bakker
> > You might want to consider that to many photographers not having a
bundle
> of
> > features is perhaps the best feature a camera can have. The really,
really
> > usefull 'features' are inside your head. ;-)
>
> Yep... Then why not use a Holga to do catalogue shots..?
Well, certainly not because it doesn't offer enough features.
It's wanting in another department.
> Well...to each...
Yes, i believe so. ;-)
> With the 6008i and its master unit the camera is very customizable...Say,
I
> do plenty of table-top shooting...I set my mirror to lock up before each
> shot...
Ah, yes, "Mirror lock" (it's really prerelease, isn't it?). That is indeed
one very useful feature that is not inside your head. I forgot about that.
:-( But does it count as "automation"? If so there is a virtual
"off-switch", so i don't mind ;-)
But, going back to your comparison, it is one of those features even found
on 1957 Hasselblads.
> Automation - if used correctly - adds to your so-called "photographic
> experience" so you can use what's between your ears to "create" stuff
> (whatever that means to ya...) instead of performing such "creative" tasks
> like film transport or manual exposure bracketing... Ah, Luddites,
> Luddites...
Automation should always be used with deliberation (e.g. where to point that
built-in spotmeter, how much to compensate the built-in meter's reading,
where to point the AF sensor and did it really put focus where it should be,
etc.) and must be monitored. Unless we're in such a hurry that we must (!)
trust whatever automation will do lest we miss the shot altogether. So it
doesn't make life really that much easier, if at all.
fotografm
on backs from a certain vintage etc. etc.
"Q.G. de Bakker" <q...@worldonline.nl> wrote in message
news:a7ljdl$g4s$1...@reader1.tiscali.nl...
David Meiland
eMeL
>
> And I don't bracket; instead I just measure the scene
> carefully with a spot meter if I think it may require special attention
> for exposure.
My hat off to your exposure metering skills!
Michael
eMeL
news:b3cd93ef.02032...@posting.google.com...
> (...)
> And hurry up to get more lenses. Maybe Rollei, without the financial
> help of Samsung, will have some problems with the big "AF-Burger".
???
From the annals of history (apparently...)
http://www.rollei.de/en/news/archive.html#dezember
"The traditional German company Rollei is independent again
Just before its 80th anniversary, a change in the ownership was effected at
the traditional manufacturer of camera equipment.
A group of employees in leading positions took over the shares of the former
shareholder Samsung after corresponding negotiations:
Jürgen Fahlbusch (Sales RolleiMetric)
Hans Hartje (Sales)
Hansjürgen Hartung (Development)
KlausDieter Koss (Sales)
KarlHeinz Krings (Production)
Roland Krüger (Development)
After this Management Buy Out (MBO), Rollei is an independent Braunschweig
based camera manufacturer again. Until the new managing directors are
officially enrolled, Mr. Paul Dume and Mr. Youngmin Lee will run the
business. "
There still *are* Samsung/Rollei connections, but in a different arena.
Cheers!
Michael
Q.G. de Bakker
> > And hurry up to get more lenses. Maybe Rollei, without the financial
> > help of Samsung, will have some problems with the big "AF-Burger".
>
> ???
Times for Rollei too are hard. And now they have taken the plunge and sunk
all their money in AF.
So if this 'experiment' doesn't meet approval in the market, without the
backing of a giant like Samsung, things may take a turn for the worse for
Rollei.
Mxsmanic
news:a7n6g1$t7g$07$1...@news.t-online.com...
> Do all Hassy backs have the V's - eg the A12 ?
My brand-new A12 back has them. I didn't realize that such an important
chichi cachet attached to them, however. I'll have to be sure to scan
my images including the borders, so I can show people those two elite
notches.
Mxsmanic
> My hat off to your exposure metering skills!
It's not particularly difficult, just time-consuming. If you have the
time to do it, the results are excellent.
Mxsmanic
> So if this 'experiment' doesn't meet approval
> in the market, without the backing of a giant
> like Samsung, things may take a turn for the
> worse for Rollei.
I think a great deal depends on how the majority of MF photographers are
using their cameras. If they are using them in a way that leaves plenty
of time to focus, AF may be completely irrelevant. If they are using
them to photograph Formula 1 racing, AF may be vital. But I tend to
think the former is more likely than the latter. I think AF is only
slightly more useful on MF than it would be on LF.
eMeL
> eMeL wrote:
>
> > > And hurry up to get more lenses. Maybe Rollei, without the financial
> > > help of Samsung, will have some problems with the big "AF-Burger".
> >
> > ???
>
> Times for Rollei too are hard. And now they have taken the plunge and sunk
> all their money in AF.
Actually I believe that in addition to the new AF body and lenses, there
will be an update of the manual line of Rollei cameras and lenses
soon...Maybe even at photokina...
And AF in the Rollei line is so new that it is not even on the market yet,
so it's too early to judge it... But we'll see... If focus confirmation and
trap focus both work with all Rollei lenses (as advertised) I'll be the
first one in line.
> So if this 'experiment' doesn't meet approval in the market, without the
> backing of a giant like Samsung, things may take a turn for the worse for
> Rollei.
Not worse than for Hasselblad...
:-)
Michael
Q.G. de Bakker
> Not worse than for Hasselblad...
> :-)
Yes, worse than Hasselblad. They do rather well, compared to Rollei. Still.
Let's just hope Rollei's 6008 AF will be a success, so they will stay with
us. For now and forever.
David J. Littleboy
"Mxsmanic" <mxsm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I think a great deal depends on how the majority of MF photographers are
> using their cameras. If they are using them in a way that leaves plenty
> of time to focus, AF may be completely irrelevant. If they are using
> them to photograph Formula 1 racing, AF may be vital. But I tend to
> think the former is more likely than the latter. I think AF is only
> slightly more useful on MF than it would be on LF.
I'd think wedding photographers would love it...
David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan
Bob Keene/Karen Shehade
destroys the mood... I use 500cx and 500cm's... mainly by setting the lens
at, say, 8 feet- then move into that distance to get a shot. Faster than
auto-focus and no 'hunting'-
Now, if only my D-30 could operate like my Leica M6!!!! :)
Bob Keene
Keene Vision Photography
"Creating Visions That Last A Lifetime"
781/449-2536
www.keenevision.com
Mxsmanic
news:DcPn8.11497$T4.8...@nnrp.gol.com...
> I'd think wedding photographers would love it...
Those who are still shooting MF, perhaps. Then again, if they can
afford to load a new roll every 12 shots, they can't be in too much of a
hurry.
Göran Thyberg
So, what are the Hasselblad's V's?
Göran
Mxsmanic
news:3CA02A6F...@era.ericsson.se...
> So, what are the Hasselblad's V's?
I don't know. I even sent a question on it to Hasselblad, but they
haven't answered.
Q.G. de Bakker
> Those who are still shooting MF, perhaps. Then again, if they can
> afford to load a new roll every 12 shots, they can't be in too much of a
> hurry.
Being in a hurry is no problem. I believe they prefer 220 film anyway (i
know i would in such a situation).
Plus changing backs is a lot quicker than reloading.
Mxsmanic
> Plus changing backs is a lot quicker
> than reloading.
The backs don't reload themselves, and even 220 has fewer exposures than
135.
Robert Monaghan
see example at http://people.smu.edu/rmonagha/mf/photoads.html for fun ex.
hth bobm
--
* Robert Monaghan POB752182 Southern Methodist University, Dallas Tx 75275 *
* Third Party 35mm Lenses: http://people.smu.edu/rmonagha/third/index.html *
* Medium Format Cameras: http://people.smu.edu/rmonagha/mf/index.html *
eMeL
You've got no choice... 220 or a very slim pickin' of 70 mm emulsions. (35
mm weddings are for the birds...Lately one can see more 4.5x6 cameras than
ever before...I still prefer 6x6... )
Besides, an average wedding photog will have 4 backs (and two bodies, one
spare...) and load them beforehand with a soft contrast film of their
choice. One seldom takes more than 24 pictures in church and more than one
or two rolls of "formals" and "garden shots" so 4 backs is plenty. And if
the size of the wedding party justifies more shots, there will be two
photographers (or 1 1/2 - one "main" photographer and one "assistant who
also takes pictures...")
I sometimes see 35 mm shooters (either semi-pro or "my sis asked me to...")
burning rubber in their motor drives in church... Always makes me chuckle
...
Michael
David Meiland
I've taken as many as 10 backs to a wedding, and three loaded 35mm
bodies. You need to change film once, maybe twice at most. No problem
at all.
---
David Meiland
Oakland, California
http://davidmeiland.com/
**Check the reply address before sending mail
Mxsmanic
> 35 mm weddings are for the birds...Lately one can
> see more 4.5x6 cameras than ever before...I still
> prefer 6x6...
I'm confused. On the one hand, I see dire predictions of the demise of
MF; and on the other, I see statements like yours. So which is it?
> One seldom takes more than 24 pictures in church
> and more than one or two rolls of "formals" and
> "garden shots" so 4 backs is plenty.
What? No motor drive? No 8 fps?
> I sometimes see 35 mm shooters (either semi-pro
> or "my sis asked me to...") burning rubber in
> their motor drives in church... Always makes me chuckle
It makes me think of all that wasted silver.
I have yet to find a use for motor drive, outside of sports photography.
Mxsmanic
purpose of the "V" marks in the frame is to identify the resulting
negatives as coming from a Hasselblad camera.
"Mxsmanic" <mxsm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:M2Mm8.14011$7b.11...@bin7.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
> Does Hasselblad really put those little V-shaped notches in the side
of
> its images to make its cameras distinctive, or is that just an urban
> legend? In the former case, what prevents some other company from
doing
> it? And in the latter case, what purpose do the notches serve? Is
> there a technical reason why they are there? I notice indentations at
> each corner of the image, too, but I guess those are present on all MF
> cameras (?).
>
>
Q.G. de Bakker
> > [...] Lately one can
> > see more 4.5x6 cameras than ever before...I still
> > prefer 6x6...
>
> I'm confused. On the one hand, I see dire predictions of the demise of
> MF; and on the other, I see statements like yours. So which is it?
The two statements mentioned above aren't exclusive, are they?
More wedding photographers using MF does not necessarily mean that MF isn't
in decline. It would perhaps if they were the only, or main, users of MF.
But that is not so, no confusion about that! ;-)
Struan Gray
>"Mxsmanic" <mxsm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> FWIW, Hasselblad answered my e-mail and confirmed that the
>> one and only purpose of the "V" marks in the frame is to
>> identify the resulting negatives as coming from a Hasselblad
>> camera.
>
> You should ask them what's to prevent a knockoff camera from
> doing the same. :)
You don't even need a camera. This was taken on the only known
roll of black-and-white Kodachrome 200 in 120 format:
http://www.sljus.lu.se/People/Struan/pics/renbint.jpg
When I took that, I was inspired by a magazine I get (Vår Bostad,
for fellow residents of Sweden) whose picture editor is in love with
fake film markings and Hasselblad notches. The magazine regularly has
black and white images with velvia edge codes and images with
Hasselblad 'V's and a full-frame black surround, but aspect ratios
like 6x7 or even 612. My favorite issue contained an article with
about twelve images where - astonishingly - the photographer had taken
his or her best shots on frame 4 of twelve different rolls :-)
I have had people tell me - based on the jpg - that the above shot
clearly demonstrated the superiority of Hasselblad equipment. I smile
and feel good, but for baser reasons than they imagine. As it happens
I do admire and lust after Hasselblad equipment, but not for the
notches. Notches I can do myself.
Struan
eMeL
> "eMeL" <badb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:ua1mlub...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> > 35 mm weddings are for the birds...Lately one can
> > see more 4.5x6 cameras than ever before...I still
> > prefer 6x6...
>
> I'm confused. On the one hand, I see dire predictions of the demise of
> MF; and on the other, I see statements like yours. So which is it?
Well...speaking of weddings...
35 mm - film and (sometimes) digital - is used mostly for "photojournalistic
snapshots"
The "workhorse" is still film MF (mostly 6x6 and 4.5x6)
The film is often scanned and pics "photoshopped" instead of relying solely
on wet printing.
Digital is used often as a stationary setup at the reception (camera,
computer+monitor, printer, cash register...) to "dazzle" the public and
generate (substantial!) revenue stream.
IMO nothing is going to "die" anytime soon - film-based professional
photography - in all formats - will be around for a loong time.
Michael
Robert Monaghan
yes, the "vees" are one reason that I had to trim the black film around
my "blind" test slide series, as I have learned to recognize my hassy
from my kowa from my bronica 6x6cm slides not by the image qualities,
but by the hassy vees, the kowa frame, and the two curved ends on the
bronica slides on one side etc.
some backs such as Koni Omega RO200 have a series of film edge markings,
which you can mask out to identify individual backs and so rapidly
identify problems related to backs. A good idea worth copying ;-)
Robert Monaghan
FWIW, Hasselblad answered my e-mail and confirmed that the one and only
purpose of the "V" marks in the frame is to identify the resulting
negatives as coming from a Hasselblad camera.
Which begs the question, identify to whom? Presumably the photographer
knows what camera they are using. Other companies have photo contests
in med fmt without "vees" on their backs (mamiya, bronica etc.). So the
only logical answer remains those art directors and photo buyers who
want to be reassured you are using a pricey hasselblad and not one of
those Soviet clones ;-)
grins bobm
Milburne Drysdale
triangular rat-tail file to notch each body's film window with a
unique combo of marks, so that I could tell which body had produced a
given negative. Helped immensely when problems occurred (slowing
shutter, damaged curtain, or most usually a hair in the frame).
I'm guessing that Victor had filed identifying notches into the
original prototype backs he was testing. The first prototype to pass
all tests happened to be the one with 2 notches. Vic handed it to the
production staff, saying "Make 'em all exactly like this".
And they did. Now it's too late to correct the mistake.
Good thing it wasn't prototype #17, eh?
Q.G. de Bakker
> Good thing it wasn't prototype #17, eh?
Amazing how Victor thought he got it right on the second go, isn't it? ;-)
Mxsmanic
news:do73aucprpjd4s17v...@4ax.com...
> You should ask them what's to prevent a
> knockoff camera from doing the same.
I was tempted to, but I didn't.
Mxsmanic
news:a7st1j$ai$1...@post.cis.smu.edu...
> Which begs the question, identify to whom?
People who want to praise Hasselblad but who realize that they can't
tell the difference between 'blad photos and photos from other cameras
without those identifying notches.
> Presumably the photographer knows what camera
> they are using.
Yes, but he has to justify his rates to his clients.
> So the only logical answer remains those art
> directors and photo buyers who want to be
> reassured you are using a pricey hasselblad
> and not one of those Soviet clones ;-)
Exactly. Then they can wax poetic about the Leic--er, the Hasselblad
"glow."
eMeL
> Milburne Drysdale wrote:
>
> > Good thing it wasn't prototype #17, eh?
>
> Amazing how Victor thought he got it right on the second go, isn't it? ;-)
He was copying an existing design..?
;-)
Michael
Q.G. de Bakker
> > Amazing how Victor thought he got it right on the second go, isn't it?
;-)
>
> He was copying an existing design..?
Ah! So we know one manufacturer that has copied those Vs!
Just not what from.
Stephe
>
> yes, the "vees" are one reason that I had to trim the black film around
> my "blind" test slide series, as I have learned to recognize my hassy
> from my kowa from my bronica 6x6cm slides not by the image qualities,
> but by the hassy vees, the kowa frame, and the two curved ends on the
> bronica slides on one side etc.
>
Lets not forget the wavy edges of a kiev frame 8-)
--
stephe
Mxsmanic
news:a7ui02$obrec$1...@ID-52908.news.dfncis.de...
> Lets not forget the wavy edges of a kiev frame 8-)
Really?
Anyone have examples of all these different frame shapes?
Pete Schermerhorn
what you all are talking about. I've browsed through my last several hundred
rolls of Plus-X, some misc. Ilfords, TechPan and Konica 120-size, plus 70mm.
Plus-X and HSIR, shot with four different backs on two Hassy 500C/Ms.......and
I don't have any Vees on any of them. There are approx. two small triangular
arrows per frame, in line with the film's name......but I had exactly the same
arrows on my Mamiya TLRs. The same for the other films (except 70mm, of
course). Why do other people have these mystery markings, while my Hassy
negative strips are marked exactly the same as when I shot pics with the Mamiya
TLRs? Is it somehow a function of the film used? Maybe only with color films?
Dunno.
Pete Schermerhorn, in the glorious Berkshire hills of western Massachusetts
Remove nojunk.
Robert Monaghan
see http://people.smu.edu/rmonagha/mf/photoads.html
table with bronica ad photo, blowup on right side, two small V cuts
in middle of left side edge are the Hasselblad vees (in a bronica ad!)
Stephe
> "Stephe" <ms_s...@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:a7ui02$obrec$1...@ID-52908.news.dfncis.de...
>
>> Lets not forget the wavy edges of a kiev frame 8-)
>
> Really?
Yes really. I suppose they didn't feel having a perfectly flat edge on the
frame was a big concern.
>
> Anyone have examples of all these different frame shapes?
Many cameras have different "shapes", especially older ones. Also my fuji
rangefinder has a D shaped bump of the edge to show what camera was used.
--
stephe
Pete Schermerhorn
Now I can see it all clearly. And, of course, my negatives have them, too.
But I'll have to admit that the Vees are considerably more insignificant than I
was expecting. I'm now wondering why I even spent so much time looking-over my
negatives. Oh, well. It's done, and thanks again.