Hasselblad vs Rollei 6008
Chris Bitmead uid(x22068)
Can anybody give me any comments about Hasselblad vs Rollei 6008.
Things I'm interested in...
- What annoys you about 'Blad/6008?
- How reliable is your 'Blad/Rollei?
- Repair costs 'Blad vs Rollei 6008
- What do especially like about 'Blad compared to Rollei or vice-versa?
- Any other comment on Hassy vs Rollei
Wolfgang Kommerell
IMO, you should visit http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/photo/rollei-6008.html
Great site, as it`s part of P.Greenspun`s photo.net.
Wolfgang.
--
- Wolfgang Kommerell, D-10783 Berlin -
Danny Gonzalez
Chris,
I've owned both the Rollei 6008 and H'blad (500cm and 2000fcw) systems and
can answer most questions about comparing these systems. I've also written
a series of articles about both (ad most other choices) called the
'Overview" series. Email me back if you're interested in getting copies of
these (the whole set is around 500K).
> Can anybody give me any comments about Hasselblad vs Rollei 6008.
Unless you're considering the 203FE or 205tcc, the capabilities of the
cameras are wildly divergent. The Rollei is the most capably advanced MF
design in existence and, compared to on-board metered H'blad, is actually
very inexpensive.
> - What annoys you about 'Blad/6008?
H'blad has complex procedure for resetting MLU and multi exposure. Backs
are a pain to load quickly and F series cameras are loud and vibration
prone. The FCM/FCW curtain protection spring doesn't snap the blind back
down after you mount a back, causing a fogged frame.
The 6008 Professional (not latest Integral, which is much improved in this
regard) has a very loud mirror/motor action. You've got to revolve your
prism in order to change inserts (though no H'blad offers any
interchangeable insert).
> - How reliable is your 'Blad/Rollei?
My 500cm wasn't very reliable but my 2000fcw has been perfect for a number
of years. The Rollei needed an initial adjustment of both the meter and
the frame spacing of the back but never needed any other repair in three
years of use (only moderate).
> - Repair costs 'Blad vs Rollei 6008
Both of them are very expensive to repair. I don't think you'll find an
edge for one vs. the other in this regard as any electronic problems would
probably cost a ton with either (as long as were cmparing the feature
competitive models).
> - What do especially like about 'Blad compared to Rollei or vice-versa?
Te H'blad has a very familiar shape and feel though it's not as easy to
deal with when working fast. The Rollei is easier to use for long periods
without eye fatigue and speeds through film as fast as you can shoot it.
Think of it as the difference between a non motorized Nikon FM vs. a Nikon
F4s (which actually doesn't have as many features as the 6008).
> - Any other comment on Hassy vs Rollei
The Rollei was the finest camera I ever used and I loved it dearly. The
H'blad is fun and makes a great image but the Rollei had a feel in use
that was conducive to making more considered photographs, much more
easily.
Danny Gonzalez
Charles Nguyen
I have Rollei 6008 and it's mucho better than Hassy 9used to own one) . For
the value and quality , I'll go with Rollei.
Chris Bitmead uid(x22068) <Chris....@Alcatel.com.au> wrote in article
<BITMEADC.9...@Alcatel.com.au>...
>
> Can anybody give me any comments about Hasselblad vs Rollei 6008.
>
> Things I'm interested in...
>
> - What annoys you about 'Blad/6008?
>
> - How reliable is your 'Blad/Rollei?
>
> - Repair costs 'Blad vs Rollei 6008
>
> - What do especially like about 'Blad compared to Rollei or vice-versa?
>
Joe McCary
Charles Nguyen wrote:
>
> I have Rollei 6008 and it's mucho better than Hassy 9used to own one) . For
> the value and quality , I'll go with Rollei.
>
That is why there are 2 companies! But one of the two has made cameras
that one can find in stores and can have repaired and can use 25 year
old lenses on. Want to guess which one?
Joe
Bob Salomon
Since the 6008 takes all of the lenses that were made for the SLX from
1972. As well as its Prisms, finders, etc. your question is rather moot.
--
HP Marketing Corp. Gepe, G-O Lighting, Giottos, Heliopan, HP Combi-Plan-T, Kaiser, Linhof, Rimowa, Rodenstock, Rollei, Sirostar 2000
Roger Urban
Charles Nguyen wrote:
>
> I have Rollei 6008 and it's mucho better than Hassy 9used to own one) . For
> the value and quality , I'll go with Rollei.
>
> <BITMEADC.9...@Alcatel.com.au>...
> >
> > Can anybody give me any comments about Hasselblad vs Rollei 6008.
> >
> > Things I'm interested in...
> >
> > - What annoys you about 'Blad/6008?
> >
> > - How reliable is your 'Blad/Rollei?
> >
> > - Repair costs 'Blad vs Rollei 6008
> >
> > - What do especially like about 'Blad compared to Rollei or vice-versa?
> >
> > - Any other comment on Hassy vs Rollei
> >
> >
Yes. Check out this in-depth comparison of Hassy vs Rollei.
http://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/philg/photo/rollei-6008.html
--
Thanks,
Roger Urban
Arild Noven
Bob Salomon wrote:
>
>
> Since the 6008 takes all of the lenses that were made for the SLX from
> 1972. As well as its Prisms, finders, etc. your question is rather moot.
>
Does this apply to the other Rolleis too? And does the old Rolleis
(f.ex. models from 1960-1970) take the brand new lenses and backs
(including pola-backs) as well? And how many used Rollei bodies, lenses,
backs, finders, etc. etc. can you find in the stores around?
Just wondering :-)
--
Arild Noven
Dept. of Linguistics and Comparative Literature
University of Bergen
Remove NOSPAM from e-mail address before replying.
Stan Naylor
I thought the slx would only exchange lenses with the 6006. Am I
wrong. I'm looking for a remote cable for the slx. Will any 6000
series cable fit on the SLX.
thanks in advance
Stan Naylor
csna...@bga.net
>Since the 6008 takes all of the lenses that were made for the SLX from
>1972. As well as its Prisms, finders, etc. your question is rather moot.
>
Stan Naylor
Bob Salomon
In article <339BB2DA...@lili.uib.no>, Arild Noven
<NOSPAM...@lili.uib.no> wrote:
> Bob Salomon wrote:
> >
> >
> > Since the 6008 takes all of the lenses that were made for the SLX from
> > 1972. As well as its Prisms, finders, etc. your question is rather moot.
> >
>
>
> Does this apply to the other Rolleis too? And does the old Rolleis
> (f.ex. models from 1960-1970) take the brand new lenses and backs
> (including pola-backs) as well? And how many used Rollei bodies, lenses,
> backs, finders, etc. etc. can you find in the stores around?
> Just wondering :-)
>
> --
> Arild Noven
> Dept. of Linguistics and Comparative Literature
> University of Bergen
>
> Remove NOSPAM from e-mail address before replying.
The SLX, 6002, 6003, 6006, 6003, 6008 all take the same Polaroid backs.
And the same 120/220 drop in film inserts.
6006/6330/6008 cameras all take the same 120 and 220 backs in 6x6 and 645.
SLX and 6002 cameras have a different film plane and can not use the
6006/6003/6008 backs.
But the 6002 and SLX can use the same 6x6 120 back. They can NOT use the
same 645 back.
Bob Salomon
In article <339C70...@no.spam.at.all>, Dave <Da...@no.spam.at.all> wrote:
> Bob Salomon wrote:
>
> > Joe McCary wrote:
>
> >> That is why there are 2 companies! But one of the two has made
> >> cameras that one can find in stores and can have repaired and
> >> can use 25 year old lenses on.
>
> > Since the 6008 takes all of the lenses that were made for the SLX
> > from 1972. As well as its Prisms, finders, etc. your question is
> > rather moot.
>
>
> The question is moot, but for a different reason.
>
> OK, he should've said 40 years instead of 25. I can use a
> new lens made today on a 1957 Hasselblad or a I can use a
> new Hasselblad made today with a 1957 lens. In this town
> alone (Portland) I can think of a half dozen shops that'll
> rent, sell, or repair Hasselblad equipment, today, just by
> walking in. There's certainly merit in those factors.
>
> The question is moot because someone is going to like "A"
> instead of "B" for very personal reasons. I didn't buy a
> 6008 for the same reason I didn't buy a 205FCC - I don't
> need or want the automation.
>
> -Dave
If you had actually tried the camera the decision to buy or not to buy has
nothing to do with the automation.
It is the difference in handling, ergonomics, versatility, exposure
control, and results on fil.
Aytomation is a by product in this case that is threr if you want the
added convenience and not required if you don't.
But the handling is in a class by itself.
Bob
Piwihiwi
Hi,
it depends on what you are prefering. If you do a lot of action work, I
would prefer the 6008, because it is a lot cheaper than a Hassy 203FE. If
you are working more or less outdoor, the Hassy is the better choice. More
reliable, no problems with NiCd batteries. I had my Hassy 500 C/M in a
tent on 3500m in the swiss Alps. After a cold, icy night the camera was
working as usually. The camera of another guy stopped working because of
battery problems. Furthermore, a Hassy ( with the exception 553EL/X) is
not as heavy as the 6008. ZEISS delivers special lenses only for
Hasselblad, for example the superb 4.0/180mm. Rollei has some lenses by
Schneider, but tests in a german photo magazine show, that, for example,
the 2.8/180mm is a lot more worse than the ZEISS.
A known problem of the 6008 is the exchange of film backs. There are
problems with overlapping frames if you change the back.
And the most important (?) argument: ask what NASA is using in space:
Hasselblad.
They tested other brands...but they are using Hasselblad.
Peter Ochmann
Bob Salomon
In article <19970613180...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
piwi...@aol.com (Piwihiwi) wrote:
> Hi,
> it depends on what you are prefering. If you do a lot of action work, I
> would prefer the 6008, because it is a lot cheaper than a Hassy 203FE. If
> you are working more or less outdoor, the Hassy is the better choice. More
> reliable, no problems with NiCd batteries. I had my Hassy 500 C/M in a
> tent on 3500m in the swiss Alps. After a cold, icy night the camera was
> working as usually. The camera of another guy stopped working because of
> battery problems.>
Then perhaps this explains why Neelon Crawford, on an expedition to the
South pole at -50°C used a 6008 with no problems or why Chris Brown hangs
Rolleis under Jaguar fighters at the same temperature with no problems.
At extreme low temp. any system has to be used with some caution. At these
temperatures lubricants that are used at normal temperature ranges thicken
and create problems. Batteries have lower capacity, etc.
So you carry an extra battery. No big deal for the features you gain.
< Furthermore, a Hassy ( with the exception 553EL/X) is
> not as heavy as the 6008.>
All 6x6 cameras with built-in or added motordrives are appx. the same
weight as the 6008 with the exception of the 6003 which is lighter than
the 6008 by appx. 6 ozs.
< ZEISS delivers special lenses only for
> Hasselblad, for example the superb 4.0/180mm. Rollei has some lenses by
> Schneider, but tests in a german photo magazine show, that, for example,
> the 2.8/180mm is a lot more worse than the ZEISS.>
And they also deliver some only for Rollei. Witness the 1000mm Tele-Tessar.
Have you tried the 180mm 2.8 and actually compared the performance of the
Zeiss 4.0 against it. Perhaps you might also try the 40mm 3.5 Schneider vs
the 4.0 Zeiss. Rollei has both or the 90mm 4.0 Apo Macro vs any other lens
from anybody.
Both cameras have good optics and both have lenses unique to itself. But
Hasselblad currently offers 14 lenses and Rollei offers 23 lenses.
Hasselblad has 6 fully meter coupled lenses and Rollei has 23. Somewhere
in all these extra Rollei lenses there has to be unique optic to Rollei.
Perhaps the 80mm 2.0?
> A known problem of the 6008 is the exchange of film backs. There are
> problems with overlapping frames if you change the back.>
Want to prove it?
Go to any Rollei dealer and try different backs on the same or different bodies.
This is pure BS and rumor mongering for no useful purpose.
Any interchangeable back or fixed back on any MF camera can go out of
tolerance and cause problems.
But this is not a problem for Rollei any more so than for any other camera.
Could someone have experienced this? Sure.
Is it common? No way. It is only common to those who use something other
than Rollei.
> And the most important (?) argument: ask what NASA is using in space:
> Hasselblad.
> They tested other brands...but they are using Hasselblad.>
And Linhof and Rollei 6008. I know. I sold them to NASA. If you would like
an 8x10 from the Linhof Aero Technika or from the 6008 from the Shuttle I
would be happy to send you a print. But you might just ask yourself why
Rollei and linhof would print Space Shuttle photos in their brochures and
on their posters if they were taken by a different system.
BTW, I also sold NASA at Edwards AFB multiple Rollei 6000 photogrammetric
cameras to record Shuttle landings and to NASA a Cape Kennedy 6008 cameras
with the 150mm 4.6 APO Macro Symmar to duplicate mission originals as well
as Rollei 6000 cameras to other NASA installations.
Of course NASA uses Hasselblad, but they use lots of others as well
including our cameras and don't forget all those Nikons up there.
Yes I am biased towards Rollei and Linhof and all of our other products
but my bias is in my signiture line and I don't post heresay or rumor.
What is your bias?
If you chose to use a system other than Rollei that was your choice and
you probably made it after careful testing and comparing. But not from
rumor and heresay.
Others are entitled to the same.
Piwihiwi
Bob wrote:
>> Hi,
> > it depends on what you are prefering. If you do a lot of action work, I
>> would prefer the 6008, because it is a lot cheaper than a Hassy 203FE. If
>> you are working more or less outdoor, the Hassy is the better choice. More
> > reliable, no problems with NiCd batteries. I had my Hassy 500 C/M in a
> > tent on 3500m in the swiss Alps. After a cold, icy night the camera was
>> working as usually. The camera of another guy stopped working because of
> > battery problems.>
> Then perhaps this explains why Neelon Crawford, on an expedition to the
> South pole at -50°C used a 6008 with no problems or why Chris Brown hangs
> Rolleis under Jaguar fighters at the same temperature with no problems.
Seems to be an advertisement action. Only a crazy guy will carry a medium format camera to the south pole. Maybe Rollei was paying for it or it was transported by others ?
> At extreme low temp. any system has to be used with some caution. At these
> temperatures lubricants that are used at normal temperature ranges thicken
> and create problems. Batteries have lower capacity, etc.
That's correct.
> So you carry an extra battery. No big deal for the features you gain.
If you do a lot of work outdoors, you would have to carry a lot of batteries...
Where are the BE outlets at the south pole ?
>< Furthermore, a Hassy ( with the exception 553EL/X) is
>> not as heavy as the 6008.>
> All 6x6 cameras with built-in or added motordrives are appx. the same
> weight as the 6008 with the exception of the 6003 which is lighter than
> the 6008 by appx. 6 ozs.
But I love the possibility to attach a motor drive only when I need it.
>< ZEISS delivers special lenses only for
>> Hasselblad, for example the superb 4.0/180mm. Rollei has some lenses by
>> Schneider, but tests in a german photo magazine show, that, for example,
>> the 2.8/180mm is a lot more worse than the ZEISS.>
> And they also deliver some only for Rollei. Witness the 1000mm Tele-Tessar.
> Have you tried the 180mm 2.8 and actually compared the performance of the
> Zeiss 4.0 against it. Perhaps you might also try the 40mm 3.5 Schneider vs
> the 4.0 Zeiss. Rollei has both or the 90mm 4.0 Apo Macro vs any other lens
> from anybody.
> Both cameras have good optics and both have lenses unique to itself. But
> Hasselblad currently offers 14 lenses and Rollei offers 23 lenses.
> Hasselblad has 6 fully meter coupled lenses and Rollei has 23. Somewhere
> in all these extra Rollei lenses there has to be unique optic to Rollei.
> Perhaps the 80mm 2.0?
You don't have the ZEISS wide angle lenses with floating elements which
have much better performance in the short distance range. As far as I know,
Rollei Zeiss lenses are produced by Rollei under license. Hassy lenses are
produced by Zeiss.
It is an old truth that lenses with high lens stops show worse performance than
those with lower stops. This is shown with the 2.8/180mm. It seems to be the
worst medium format lens they ever tested ( we have to wait for Kiev lenses).
>> A known problem of the 6008 is the exchange of film backs. There are
>> problems with overlapping frames if you change the back.>
> Want to prove it?
You proved it by yourself. There are postings to this group where guys were
complaining about this problem. You advised them to bring the camera to the
service.
The 600x series produces variing frame spacings because the film is not pressed
from one part of the magazine to the other but directly to the body. If the magazine
is out of exact adjusting, the spacing variation increases and frames are overlapping.
> Go to any Rollei dealer and try different backs on the same or different bodies.
> This is pure BS and rumor mongering for no useful purpose.
You only have to change the back before finishing a 120 roll. Attach it to the body
again and you will get variing frame spaces.
> Any interchangeable back or fixed back on any MF camera can go out of
> tolerance and cause problems.
> But this is not a problem for Rollei any more so than for any other camera.
> Could someone have experienced this? Sure.
> Is it common? No way. It is only common to those who use something other
> than Rollei.
It is common to those who use a Rollei and want to change the back before finishing the roll. It is a Rollei problem on principle.
> And the most important (?) argument: ask what NASA is using in space:
> Hasselblad.
> They tested other brands...but they are using Hasselblad.>
> And Linhof and Rollei 6008. I know. I sold them to NASA. If you would like
> an 8x10 from the Linhof Aero Technika or from the 6008 from the Shuttle I
> would be happy to send you a print. But you might just ask yourself why
> Rollei and linhof would print Space Shuttle photos in their brochures and
> on their posters if they were taken by a different system.
Are there more missions with Rollei than one ? We are not talking about
Linhof. Linhof would be my choice in large format or aerial photography.
And we are not talking about photogrammetry.
> BTW, I also sold NASA at Edwards AFB multiple Rollei 6000 photogrammetric
> cameras to record Shuttle landings and to NASA a Cape Kennedy 6008 cameras
> with the 150mm 4.6 APO Macro Symmar to duplicate mission originals as well
> as Rollei 6000 cameras to other NASA installations.
> Of course NASA uses Hasselblad, but they use lots of others as well
> including our cameras and don't forget all those Nikons up there.
They are using only Hasselblad and Nikon outside the shuttle.
> Yes I am biased towards Rollei and Linhof and all of our other products
> but my bias is in my signiture line and I don't post heresay or rumor.
I do not post rumor. I only read the postings in this newsgroup. And, BTW,
I am not a sales representative.
> What is your bias?
My bias is quality, reliability and excellent customer service. For example, here in
Germany Hasselblad offers a 24 hour service, not only to professionals,
but to ALL customers.
> If you chose to use a system other than Rollei that was your choice and
> you probably made it after careful testing and comparing. But not from
> rumor and heresay.
> Others are entitled to the same.
I agree...
I am using a Hasselblad. When I was a student, I carefully tested both, at that
time the Rollei 6006 and the Hasselblad 500. I got a 6006 test set with the Schneider 2.8/80mm. There were black remnants inside the lens, probably by machining. So I decided that this could not be the quality to pay my money for what I had worked so hard....
I will not trade in my Hassy unless Rollei offers autofocus. Perhaps
you have some background information wether Rollei will offer it in the future ?
> Bob
> --
> HP Marketing Corp. Gepe, G-O Lighting, Giottos, Heliopan, HP Combi-Plan-T, Kaiser, Linhof, Rimowa, > Rodenstock,
Peter
Bob Salomon
In article <19970614110...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
piwi...@aol.com (Piwihiwi) wrote:
> Bob wrote:
>
> >> Hi,
> > > it depends on what you are prefering. If you do a lot of action work, I
> >> would prefer the 6008, because it is a lot cheaper than a Hassy 203FE. If
> >> you are working more or less outdoor, the Hassy is the better choice. More
> > > reliable, no problems with NiCd batteries. I had my Hassy 500 C/M in a
> > > tent on 3500m in the swiss Alps. After a cold, icy night the camera was
> >> working as usually. The camera of another guy stopped working because of
> > > battery problems.>
>
> > Then perhaps this explains why Neelon Crawford, on an expedition to the
> > South pole at -50°C used a 6008 with no problems or why Chris Brown hangs
> > Rolleis under Jaguar fighters at the same temperature with no problems.
>
> Seems to be an advertisement action. Only a crazy guy will carry a
medium format camera to the south pole. Maybe Rollei was paying for it or
it was transported by others ?
No it was done by the photographer for a grant by the National Science
Foundation. Unlike other companys we feel that a photographer chooses the
major tool of his trade so we do not endorse or pay for photographers to
use our ptoducts. The reason he carried Rollei was that he needed the
features and quality of the Rollei 6008. He also carried the 2.8GX>
> > At extreme low temp. any system has to be used with some caution. At these
> > temperatures lubricants that are used at normal temperature ranges thicken
> > and create problems. Batteries have lower capacity, etc.
>
> That's correct.
>
> > So you carry an extra battery. No big deal for the features you gain.
>
> If you do a lot of work outdoors, you would have to carry a lot of
batteries...
> Where are the BE outlets at the south pole ?>
There are buildings in all of the settlements in Antartica, the charger
auto sets to any voltage up to 240V AC and also can be cgharged from a car
battery. It also can output 10V to run other items like a video camera.
>
> >< Furthermore, a Hassy ( with the exception 553EL/X) is
> >> not as heavy as the 6008.>
>
> > All 6x6 cameras with built-in or added motordrives are appx. the same
> > weight as the 6008 with the exception of the 6003 which is lighter than
> > the 6008 by appx. 6 ozs.
>
> But I love the possibility to attach a motor drive only when I need it.>
You have a 2.5 FPS motor in a 6008i and a 2FPS motor in the 6003.
Hasselblad can attach a winder but they are so slow that they are not
motors like Rollei's are. The new add-on winder has a max. speed of only
0,8 FPS. This is hardly a motor.
>
> >< ZEISS delivers special lenses only for
> >> Hasselblad, for example the superb 4.0/180mm. Rollei has some lenses by
> >> Schneider, but tests in a german photo magazine show, that, for example,
> >> the 2.8/180mm is a lot more worse than the ZEISS.>
>
> > And they also deliver some only for Rollei. Witness the 1000mm Tele-Tessar.
>
> > Have you tried the 180mm 2.8 and actually compared the performance of the
> > Zeiss 4.0 against it. Perhaps you might also try the 40mm 3.5 Schneider vs
> > the 4.0 Zeiss. Rollei has both or the 90mm 4.0 Apo Macro vs any other lens
> > from anybody.
> > Both cameras have good optics and both have lenses unique to itself. But
> > Hasselblad currently offers 14 lenses and Rollei offers 23 lenses.
> > Hasselblad has 6 fully meter coupled lenses and Rollei has 23. Somewhere
> > in all these extra Rollei lenses there has to be unique optic to Rollei.
> > Perhaps the 80mm 2.0?
>
> You don't have the ZEISS wide angle lenses with floating elements which
> have much better performance in the short distance range. As far as I know,
> Rollei Zeiss lenses are produced by Rollei under license. Hassy lenses are
> produced by Zeiss. >
Why don't you check a brochure before making incorrect statements?
Rollei offers the following wide angle lenses from Carl Zeiss:
30mm 3.5 F-Distagon full frame fisheye - exactly the same one as Hasselblad.
40mm 4.0 Distagon with manual floating element - exactly the same one as
Hasselblad.
50mm 4.0 Distagon without floating element
60mm 3.5 Distagon - exactly the same one as Hasselblad.
Of the 4 lenses above all are made at the Zeiss factory except for the 50
which is made in the Rollei factory.
We have the following lenses made by Schneider in the wa range:
40mm 3.5 with auto floating element
50mm 2.8 with auto floating element
55mm 4.5 PCS with rise/fall/tilt/swing
Of the 23 lenses offered by Rollei for the 6000 cameras the following are
made in the Rollei factory under Zeiss license and are even called Zeiss
lenses in Zeiss factory brochures (I will be happy to send you a copy).
50mm 4.0
80mm 2.8
150mm 4.0
250mm 5.6
The following lenses are made in the Zeiss factory in Obercochen for the 6000:
30mm 3.5
40mm 4.0
60mm 4.0
120mm 4.0
350mm 5.6
500mm 8.0
1000mm 8.0
Of the 11 current Zeiss lenses used by Rollei 2/3 are made in the Zeiss factory.
> It is an old truth that lenses with high lens stops show worse
performance than
> those with lower stops. This is shown with the 2.8/180mm. It seems to be the
> worst medium format lens they ever tested ( we have to wait for Kiev
lenses).
A little knowledge is dangerous.
The statement is that if 2 lenses are made from the same optical performer
the slower one will generally be a better performer than the faster one.
The faster Schneider lenses are not the same formulas as the slower Zeiss
ones. They are very different so you can not "assume" again.
Shoot the lenses, look at the MTF curves. Stop guessing.
> >> A known problem of the 6008 is the exchange of film backs. There are
> >> problems with overlapping frames if you change the back.>
>
> > Want to prove it?
> You proved it by yourself. There are postings to this group where guys were
> complaining about this problem. You advised them to bring the camera to the
> service.
> The 600x series produces variing frame spacings because the film is not
pressed
> from one part of the magazine to the other but directly to the body. If
the magazine
> is out of exact adjusting, the spacing variation increases and frames
are overlapping.
You are again talking nonsense.
Your statement was that the backs overlap.
No, they don't. Not anymore than anyone elses.
Now you are talking about uneven spacing. That is a different matter and
is the result of the benefit of the 6000 back-built-in darkslide and a
pressure plate that is made to P U S H the film flat against the film
rails.
Since the factory has no way of knowing if you will remove the back or
when you will remove the back or how frequently you will remove the back
they had to design the back so the frame spacing varys. This is because
the diameter of the feed and take-up spools change depending on what frame
you are shooting and, when the auto film holding clips grap the film to
prevent film creep from the pressure plate movement the amount of film
pulled off the supply and takeup spools differs depending on where you are
in the roll. To prevent overlapping the backs must allow more space
between frames at one end of the roll then the other end.
The benefit of living with this is that you can't lose, bend, forget or
sit on a darkslide it is built-in, you have a pressure plate applying far
more pressure to the film for flatter results and have drop-in insert
loading with inexpensive inserts. You also gain a 2 to 2.5FPS motor drive
and syraight line film path that can not introduce film set or curl to the
film.
The negative part of the design - the spacing between one end is greater
than the other end.
To many people the benefits of the design far overcome the uneven spacing
and the benefits of the Rollei include the results on the film itself -
much less all of the fussing to reload Hasselblad backs.
There have been several.
Since the 6006 was discontinued in favor of the 6008 in 1988 don't you
think that as a professional you owe it to your client's and yourself to
be aware of what you can do with the current cameras and lenses. Things
change and we are talking a decade or older information on your part.
As to Service Rollei has opened up service in several cities in Germany.
There is no reason why one cameras company should be much different than
the orthers. At least over here we have free loaner service for
professionals whose camera can't be fixed within 48 hours. Perhaps you
should ask Rollei's service managerwhat the policy is in germany.
Bob
--
HP Marketing Corp. Gepe, G-O Lighting, Giottos, Heliopan, HP Combi-Plan-T, Kaiser, Linhof, Rimowa, Rodenstock, Rollei, Sirostar 2000
HMorHM
Here's something that puzzles me regarding wide angle lenses.
If you had a near-far composition that framed perfectly with a 50mm lens,
what would be the best optics to choose? Your subject is a two foot tall
statue framed to one side with a wide sweep of lawn leading to the
"mansion" that fills the frame in the distance. There's lots of detail to
both statue and house which you want equally rendered. The statue is
about 3 1/2 feet from the camera. Here's the main choices:
A) 50mm 4.0 Zeiss Distagon without floating element (Rollie)
B) 50mm 2.8 Schneider with automatic floating element (Rollie)
C) 50mm 4.0 DistagonCF with manual floating element (Hasselblad)
D) 50mm 4.0 Mamiya rangefinder (Mamiya 6)
I've tried to choose the lenses from the basic designs: retrofocus (A),
retrofocus with near focus correction (B C), and "true" wide angle (D).
Are there other designs to consider?
Is the best operating procedure to check the distance of both points of
critical focus (infinity and 3.5ft) and place them on opposite ends of the
depth of field scale? Then add an fstop (or two) for safety? Or
different depending on the lens you chose. Is there any advantage to
manually adjusting the floating element?
Thanks for your consideration, -Heath
..........................................................................
....
In article <ir004021-140...@ip224.morristown.nj.pub-ip.psi.net>,
ir00...@mindspring.com (Bob Salomon) writes:
>Rollei offers the following wide angle lenses from Carl Zeiss:
<<snip>>
>50mm 4.0 Distagon without floating element
<<snip>>
>We have the following lenses made by Schneider in the wa range:
<<snip>>
Piwihiwi
Hi Bob,
some statements regarding your response:
1. I do not allege that Rolleis have poor quality. I wanted to
figure out why I chose the Hassy 10 years ago. It was at least
an example of bad advertisement to put such a lens in a test
package. Maybe that Rollei now has reached a quality standard
which will satisfy their customers.
2. Regarding the 2.8/180mm Schneider lens: you may read the test
result in the german photo magazine "Color Foto". These tests were
made in their own optical laboratory. Whereas the Zeiss and
Schneider lenses ( 50, 80, 150 mm ) gave only slightly different
results, the 2.8/180 was assessed 1,5 classes worse than the other
lenses. If I assume that one is using medium format cameras for
better results, this is not acceptable. If I would own a 6008, I
would avoid to buy this lens.
3. I know that the Rollei has better detail solutions, especially
that they avoided all the problems of the Hasselblad. I for myself
considered to switch to the 6008, but in the moment I do not think
that those detail solutions are worth the money I have to spent if
I would trade in my Hassy.
4. For outdoor work, especially if you have to carry your equipment, I
would
recommend a mechanical 500 Hasselblad, or if you can afford it, a
203FE. IMO, the 6008 and 553ELX mark the upper weight limit for hand-held
photography and are not suited for trekking tours etc.
Peter Ochmann
Bob Salomon
In article <19970615081...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
piwi...@aol.com (Piwihiwi) wrote:
> Hi Bob,
> some statements regarding your response:
>
> 1. I do not allege that Rolleis have poor quality. I wanted to
> figure out why I chose the Hassy 10 years ago. It was at least
> an example of bad advertisement to put such a lens in a test
> package. Maybe that Rollei now has reached a quality standard
> which will satisfy their customers.
I don't understand what lens you are talking about.
Here no Rollei camera is ever sold with a lens that can;t be changed by
the user. Our packages with lens state "any new Rollei lens"
>
> 2. Regarding the 2.8/180mm Schneider lens: you may read the test
> result in the german photo magazine "Color Foto". These tests were
> made in their own optical laboratory. Whereas the Zeiss and
> Schneider lenses ( 50, 80, 150 mm ) gave only slightly different
> results, the 2.8/180 was assessed 1,5 classes worse than the other
> lenses. If I assume that one is using medium format cameras for
> better results, this is not acceptable. If I would own a 6008, I
> would avoid to buy this lens.
That's nice if you only photograph charts.
Try the 2.8 180mm on people, buildings, things, etc and then see what it
can do. We sell an awful lot of them to some very critical users, Sports
Illustrated magazine, NASA, NY. Times newspaper, etc. and while they don't
read Color Foto they do look at the results on film.
>
> 3. I know that the Rollei has better detail solutions, especially
> that they avoided all the problems of the Hasselblad. I for myself
> considered to switch to the 6008, but in the moment I do not think
> that those detail solutions are worth the money I have to spent if
> I would trade in my Hassy.
The test is what is the difference on film?
° If Rollei is giving you more useable shots per roll/assignment than you
are loosing money by not switching.
° Does Rollei's speed allow you to capture more quality images than you
are loosing money by not switching to Rollei.
° Can you sell more photos by using some/all of Rollei's special features
(uo to 10 shots in 1/10 second on one frame to photograph motion.
° Rear curtain synch
° Faster leaf shutter speeds
° Wider lens range
If any of the above are true than you can make more by switching. But
simply reading about in magazines or on a monitor is not the proof.
Shooting and comparing is.
> 4. For outdoor work, especially if you have to carry your equipment, I
> would
> recommend a mechanical 500 Hasselblad, or if you can afford it, a
> 203FE. IMO, the 6008 and 553ELX mark the upper weight limit for hand-held
> photography and are not suited for trekking tours etc.
>
The 6003, with all of its features, is just as comfortable as any of the
pthers. And, if you need the features of the Rollei you would have to
carry extra accessories anyway. You also are limited to a far more
expensive camera with the 203 than a 6003 or 6008 with far fewer and more
expensive lenses and far fewer and more expensive backs than on the
Rollei. You also pay far more to get less metering and features.
Danny Gonzalez
Peter,
You bring up some valid complaints that should make for a fun debate. I'll
leave that to you and Bob <s>.
I would like to know who the 'they', you were referring to in the quote below:
> It is an old truth that lenses with high lens stops show worse
performance than
> those with lower stops. This is shown with the 2.8/180mm. It seems to be the
> worst medium format lens they ever tested ( we have to wait for Kiev
lenses).
On the film spacing problem, you wrote:
> The 600x series produces variing frame spacings because the film is not
pressed
> from one part of the magazine to the other but directly to the body. If
the magazine
> is out of exact adjusting, the spacing variation increases and frames
are overlapping.
> You only have to change the back before finishing a 120 roll. Attach it
to the body
> again and you will get variing frame spaces.
> It is common to those who use a Rollei and want to change the back
before finishing the roll. It is a Rollei >problem on principle.
My 6008 did have a problem with frame spacing, for a time. It was constant
and not predicated by mid-roll back/d'slide activation (which moves the
film plane back and forward). After I had it adjusted at Marflex, mid-roll
fim changes didn't produce uneven frame spacing at all(I admit that I
didn't do mid-roll changes often). I know that the film inserts were
updated when the 6008 replaced the 6006mk2. Maybe they were the cause of
the problem? (Bob?)
Danny Gonzalez
Bob Salomon
In article <dannyg1-1506...@ppp-27.ts-11.nyc.idt.net>,
dan...@mail.idt.net (Danny Gonzalez) wrote:
> In article <19970614110...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
> piwi...@aol.com (Piwihiwi) wrote:
>
> Peter,
>
> You bring up some valid complaints that should make for a fun debate. I'll
> leave that to you and Bob <s>.
> I would like to know who the 'they', you were referring to in the quote below:
>
> > It is an old truth that lenses with high lens stops show worse
> performance than
> > those with lower stops. This is shown with the 2.8/180mm. It seems to be the
> > worst medium format lens they ever tested ( we have to wait for Kiev
> lenses).
>
> On the film spacing problem, you wrote:
>
> > The 600x series produces variing frame spacings because the film is not
> pressed
> > from one part of the magazine to the other but directly to the body. If
> the magazine
> > is out of exact adjusting, the spacing variation increases and frames
> are overlapping.
>
> > You only have to change the back before finishing a 120 roll. Attach it
> to the body
> > again and you will get variing frame spaces.
>
> > It is common to those who use a Rollei and want to change the back
> before finishing the roll. It is a Rollei >problem on principle.
>
>
> My 6008 did have a problem with frame spacing, for a time. It was constant
> and not predicated by mid-roll back/d'slide activation (which moves the
> film plane back and forward). After I had it adjusted at Marflex, mid-roll
> fim changes didn't produce uneven frame spacing at all(I admit that I
> didn't do mid-roll changes often). I know that the film inserts were
> updated when the 6008 replaced the 6006mk2. Maybe they were the cause of
> the problem? (Bob?)
No. The problem is exactly the same as on any other interchangeable camera
back from any other manufacturer. A small tolerance adjustment.
The modified inserts prevent the insert from twisting, especially when the
film is not loaded squarely on the insert.
Bob
--
HP Marketing Corp. Gepe, G-O Lighting, Giottos, Heliopan, HP Combi-Plan-T, Kaiser, Linhof, Rimowa, Rodenstock, Rollei, Sirostar 2000
Piwihiwi
Hi Danny,
they means the people of the german photo magazine "Color Foto". They are
not
suspicous of Rollei bashing. "Color Foto" states the 6008 to be the best
medium
format camera. But not the 2.8/180mm...
Peter Ochmann
Bob Salomon
In article <19970615153...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
piwi...@aol.com (Piwihiwi) wrote:
But how do you know what it does and does not do?
I have the same March issue of Color Foto with the Scharf Schutzen article
but that does not show you what is on the film. And that is what matters.
Shoot with the lens yourself and see what it can do.
As for being number 1 the 6008 set the record for the most continuous
Camera of the Year awards from Color Foto.
Piwihiwi
Hi,
the Camera of the Year award is made by 10000 people reading Color Foto.
Less
than 1% will have had a MF camera in their hands. They only assess by
their knowledge of Color Foto articles.
To test the 2.8/180mm: where should I get it ? Photo shops here in Germany
w'ont give you such a lens sold not every day. Most shops would have to
order it from Rollei if you want to buy it...
Peter Ochmann
BobS31
Peter,
I can't tell you who in Germany rents what. I can tell you dealers in the
U.S. who do.
In Germany you can contact the factory in Braunschweig directly and they
should be able to direct you to the 180.
Bob
James Chow
In article <19970617161...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
piwi...@aol.com (Piwihiwi) wrote:
> Hi,
> To test the 2.8/180mm: where should I get it ? Photo shops here in Germany
> w'ont give you such a lens sold not every day. Most shops would have to
> order it from Rollei if you want to buy it...
>
> Peter Ochmann
Usually, a shop that has it in stock will let you test it out outside the
store. The trick is to find the shop that has it. I'd recommend to go to the
largest Rollei shop you can find (Wall St. Camera in NYC let me test out a
new 180/2.8 just outside the store; I just walked down the street and shot
a 120 roll of Manhattan). I did buy two lenses (the 90mm APO symmar and
40mm super angulon) from a local shop in Tokyo. The 90mm is stocked by the
distributor, but even the 40mm had to be ordered from Germany, which took
a month. I was able to play around w/ the lenses at a pro trade show, but
it's still not the same as running a roll of film through it and looking at
the results under a loupe.
--Jim Chow
Danny Gonzalez
Jim,
I'm interested to hear your impressions of the lenses, most especially the
90 Symmar.
Danny Gonzalez
In article <jchow-24069...@scgmac01.isl.melco.co.jp>,
jc...@atom.isl.melco.co.jp (James Chow) wrote:
-snip-