For Beginner: Yashicamat 124G or Rollei?
finn
I've been browsing the newsgroups, the MF forum and the Web for
weeks now, trying to decide which MF TLR camera to purchase.
I was all set to buy the 124G when I began reading about the superior
optics of the Rollei's. It's true I want a starter camera, but I
also want a camera that takes great pictures! I'm looking to spend
in the $200-$250 range (but I'm flexible). What should I do?
some questions:
-Rolleicord V (what's the difference between Va and Vb)?
-does the Yashicamat 124G (have the potential to) take good pictures?
-what is the comparable Rolleiflex? (which lens is the best?)
Thanks!
jon...@paston.co.uk
In article <6hibrs$9cl$1...@Jupiter.Mcs.Net>,
fi...@MCS.COM (finn) wrote:
> -does the Yashicamat 124G (have the potential to) take good pictures?
The answer is, emphatically, yes! The consensus seems to be that optically
the Yashicamat and the Rolleis are pretty comparable, but the Rollei is
better built mechanically. I'm a beginner with MF myself, and I bought a
Yashicamat 124G which I'm extremely happy with - optically it's quite
stunning, and mechanically it seems absolutely fine to me. The Rollei may be
better in this respect but I'm happy enough. The best of the photos I have
taken are far better in terms of impact than anything I've done before with
35mm.
John
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jeffrey green
> I've been browsing the newsgroups, the MF forum and the Web for
> weeks now, trying to decide which MF TLR camera to purchase.
> I was all set to buy the 124G when I began reading about the superior
> optics of the Rollei's. It's true I want a starter camera, but I
> also want a camera that takes great pictures! I'm looking to spend
> in the $200-$250 range (but I'm flexible). What should I do?
>
> some questions:
>
> -Rolleicord V (what's the difference between Va and Vb)?
> -does the Yashicamat 124G (have the potential to) take good pictures?
> -what is the comparable Rolleiflex? (which lens is the best?)
If you're getting a Rollei, there are probably several acceptable models.
But if you're doing it, do it right. Get an E model (or E2 E3) with either
a Planar OR a Xenotar lens. Xenotar will be cheaper. (although most claim
no performance difference between the two).
The 3.5 over the 2.8 will also be cheaper. Look for a shooter and not a
collectable.
(ie-decent condition, but not perfect) Look for one that has perfect
glass, and one
that doesn't need any repair ($$$). The exception could be the slow speeds
are slow,
but that's if you can clean your camera yourself which i DONOT reccomend unless
you know what the heck you're doing.
Keep looking, don't be in a hurry and you'll find one. Ebay can tend to
expensive,
but you can find deals every now and then.
jg
Wilf Lee
On 21 Apr 1998 09:52:44 -0500, fi...@MCS.COM (finn) wrote:
>I've been browsing the newsgroups, the MF forum and the Web for
>weeks now, trying to decide which MF TLR camera to purchase.
>I was all set to buy the 124G when I began reading about the superior
>optics of the Rollei's. It's true I want a starter camera, but I
>also want a camera that takes great pictures! I'm looking to spend
>in the $200-$250 range (but I'm flexible). What should I do?
Go with the Rollei if you plan on using the camera for a while. The
wide range of accessories and solid contruction means the camera will
last you for quite a while.
Get the YashicaMat if you simply want a starter camera that'll give
you a taste of MF. Don't get me wrong, the 124G takes great pictures
(watch out for abused cameras). But the accessories list is rather
limited compared to the Rollei and servicing it may be troublesome.
If you want to expand your range of focal length or film image sizes,
or do closeups, Rollei accessories are easier to find.
I started out with a 124G and currently own a Rollei.
regards,
WL
My e-mail address is #chopstix@#idirect.#com.
Reply-to field is modified to prevent spamming.
Remove the 3 # signs from my address before sending.
Keith Wiebe
I've owned a Yashica 124 and can attest to the fact it can take great
pictures but instead would suggest to look for a Mamiya 220 or 330 or even
an old Mamiyaflex body with a good 80 lens. With the Mamiya you can add
lens and accessories which you'll appreciate in the future and cost won't
be a lot more.
Keith Wiebe
Wilf Lee <no_spam@no_spam.com> wrote in article
<353d10f5...@n2.idirect.com>...
gary gaugler
On Tue, 21 Apr 1998 21:42:23 GMT, no_spam@no_spam.com (Wilf Lee)
wrote:
>On 21 Apr 1998 09:52:44 -0500, fi...@MCS.COM (finn) wrote:
>
>>I've been browsing the newsgroups, the MF forum and the Web for
>>weeks now, trying to decide which MF TLR camera to purchase.
>>I was all set to buy the 124G when I began reading about the superior
>>optics of the Rollei's. It's true I want a starter camera, but I
>>also want a camera that takes great pictures! I'm looking to spend
>>in the $200-$250 range (but I'm flexible). What should I do?
>
>Go with the Rollei if you plan on using the camera for a while. The
>wide range of accessories and solid contruction means the camera will
>last you for quite a while.
>
>Get the YashicaMat if you simply want a starter camera that'll give
>you a taste of MF. Don't get me wrong, the 124G takes great pictures
>(watch out for abused cameras). But the accessories list is rather
>limited compared to the Rollei and servicing it may be troublesome.
>If you want to expand your range of focal length or film image sizes,
>or do closeups, Rollei accessories are easier to find.
>
>I started out with a 124G and currently own a Rollei.
I'd have to emphatically second these comments. I got a 124G for my
wife to move her from her N-90 to MF. She got great images. The main
problem is that the camera is rather flimsly in construction. The
most serious problem is the body lock on the bottom which locks the
camera back to the body. There is a little pin that sticks into a
little hole and the two are drawn together by a large knob on the
bottom of the body. If the pin misses the hole, the back pops open
exposing the unused film. Or, the camera will not wind the film.
The Rolleiflex 3.5F is superior in construction to the Yashica. I
never spent any time checking image quality between the two. The
loading and locking methodology and components are vastly superior in
the Rollei. Overall, it is just a sturdier built camera. But is cost
is a primary issue, get the 124G as it still takes great pictures and
is very reliable.
Gary Gaugler
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Modern surfers use PC boards....you can too at
E-mail: gaugler @ calweb dot com
FOR7
>I've been browsing the newsgroups, the MF forum and the Web for
>weeks now, trying to decide which MF TLR camera to purchase.
>I was all set to buy the 124G when I began reading about the superior
>optics of the Rollei's. It's true I want a starter camera, but I
>also want a camera that takes great pictures! I'm looking to spend
>in the $200-$250 range (but I'm flexible). What should I do?
>
>
>
From what I gather the Rolleis lens is sharper wide open but the Yashicamat is
sharper stopped down. I have a YashicaMat that I'm playing with but haven't
finished first roll yet. Any other opinions out their?
Mark Langer
finn (fi...@MCS.COM) wrote:
> I've been browsing the newsgroups, the MF forum and the Web for
> weeks now, trying to decide which MF TLR camera to purchase.
> I was all set to buy the 124G when I began reading about the superior
> optics of the Rollei's. It's true I want a starter camera, but I
> also want a camera that takes great pictures! I'm looking to spend
> in the $200-$250 range (but I'm flexible). What should I do?
Without disparaging the performance of the Yashica 124G, it doesn't really
deliver in the "bang for the buck" range, and neither will a Rolleiflex
that costs about the same, as the cheaper Rolleis have rather dim viewing
screens by comparison. They are capable machines, but not great buys.
First of all, don't waste your money buying a camera (like the 124G) that
has a built-in meter. You should be using a hand meter if you are serious
about pursuing medium format.
Secondly, earlier Yashicas (particularly those with the 4 element lens)
will cost half or less than half the price of a 124G. Also to be
considered are the Minolta TLRs and the Ricoh Diacords. These have
excellent 4 element optics. It is hard to spend as much as a hundred
dollars on a Diacord, and they are built like tanks.
Before plunking down $250 or more on a Yashica 124G, consider that you can
buy a Zeiss Super Ikonta B with f2.8 Tessar lens and coupled rangefinder for
about the same price. And it folds up into something that you can put
into a jacket pocket. If you are getting started in medium format, you
should really start with the question of whether a TLR or a folder is
really the camera for you. For the same price as a Rolleiflex with
Planar, you can be shooting with a Voigtlander Bessa II with comparable
Heliar lens that is half the size and weight - and, you'll have jumbo 6x9
negatives to boot. A Moskva 5 can give you great 6x9 performance for less
than $100. At the low end, for $50-$100, you can be shooting with the
rangefinder Agfa Isolette III 6x6 with Synchro-Compur shutter and 4 element
f3.5 Solinar lens.
Think about the kind of photography you are planning to do. If
portability and the ability to directly view your subject without a
reversed image have any importance to you, you should be considering folders.
If a TLR is for you, don't follow the pack toward the overpriced examples.
Choose one of the cheaper fine performers available.
Mark
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Langer
Email address: mla...@ccs.carleton.ca
----------------------------------------------------------------------
cbab...@swbell.net
In article <6hibrs$9cl$1...@Jupiter.Mcs.Net>,
fi...@MCS.COM (finn) wrote:
>
> I've been browsing the newsgroups, the MF forum and the Web for
> weeks now, trying to decide which MF TLR camera to purchase.
> I was all set to buy the 124G when I began reading about the superior
> optics of the Rollei's. It's true I want a starter camera, but I
> also want a camera that takes great pictures! I'm looking to spend
> in the $200-$250 range (but I'm flexible). What should I do?
>
YashicaMat 124 (it doesn't say G on the front) for many years until I recently
picked up a Rollei 2.8F with Planar lens. I was quite satisfied with the
Yashica until I took some side by side shots with the two cameras. While the
Yashica was just about as sharp, it didn't have nearly the contrast of the
Rollei lens. Again, I wasn't unhappy until I made the comparison. The Rollei
is indeed a nicer piece of machinery, but I wouldn't have spent the extra
money for the Rollei unless the lens had been as good as it was.
I also had a Super Ikonta for a while, and was delighted to be able to take a
6x6 camera in my ovecoat pocket. But it had an uncoated lens (typical for its
day) and took very flat negatives compared to all of my other cameras so I got
rid of it. If I could find one with a coated lens in decent shape I'd snap it
up in a second.
Before that I had a Mamiya C330. That too is a wonderful machine, very
well built with most of the simplicity of a TLR and the convenience of
interchangeable lenses and a built in bellows that allows very close work.
But it's quite a bit larger and heavier than a fixed lens TLR, and is not
something I'd sling over a shoulder as a snapshot camera (which I will do with
a Rollei/Yashica size camera.)
I'd be surprised if you could get a Rolleiflex with either a Planar or Xenotar
lens in your price range (the Rolleicords had less complex lenses), and a
Mamiya would probably be awfully well used to be that low also (remember that
prices don't include a lens unless the ad says so.) As another post
suggested, if you're just looking to try MF an inexpensive Yashica (or
Minolta or Ricoh) will give you a feel for it. But for the long haul, I
suspect you'll want something like the Rollei or Mamiya.
Good luck with your hunt.
David Foy
For $250, you can get:
an excellent, mint Yashica 124 (or 124-G)
a very good Rolleicord Va or Vb
a good Rolleiflex with an f3.5 lens.
The Rolleiflex has a single-motion lever rewind/shutter-cocking mechanism
and a thickness sensor that lets you load film quickly without having to
line up the arrow on the film's paper backing with a dot on the camera.
The Rolleicord has a knob wind and no thickness sensor (the knob wind stops
at the next frame automatically -- no little red window to watch). Wedding
photographers 30 years ago needed the extra film-handling speed, but you
probably don't. The Yashica-Mats have winding levers like the Rolleiflexes,
but no film thickness sensor.
The Rolleicord Va has a fixed viewfinder hood. The Vb has a removable hood,
allowing you to change screens if you want to. Earlier Rolleicords (and very
old Rolleiflexes) have fixed hoods and, depending on vintage, poorer lenses
(Triotar) or fewer shutter speeds. Other than that, the Rolleiflex and
Rolleicord have the same optics and shutters, and are both built with the
same exceptionally high level of quality.
The Yashica-Mat 124 and 124-G differ only in cosmetics, and in a few trivial
mechanical points (gold-plated meter contacts on the G, slightly different
meter circuitry). The G sells for much more than the non-G and you don't get
anything that's worth the extra money.
Later plain-vanilla Yashica-Mats, and 124s and 124Gs, have fresnel
brighteners on the viewscreens and are easier to focus than the Rolleis. It
really is a big improvement, and a big, big difference. Their Copal shutters
are at least as good, if not better, than the Rollei Compur shutters. Their
f3.5 Yashinon lenses compare favorably with the f3,5 Tessar lenses on
Rolleis, and the Rollei Tessars and f3.5 Xenars and Yashinons perform about
the same. On expensive Rolleiflexes you can get f2.8 lenses or f3.5,
Xenotars or Planars, which are about the same as each other and noticably
better than Tessars, Xenars, or Yashinons.
The Yashica-Mat 124 and 124-G take both 120 and 220 film, for either 12 or
24 exposures per roll. In your price range, you won't find a Rollei that
does that.
Much has been made of "build quality," and "feel." The Yashicas are built
plenty well enough, and share mechanical good points (very strong focus
mechanisms) and bad points (easily dented aluminum side panels that can
cause winding problems) with the Rollei products. The Rolleis are finished
better and feel better to use. It's hard to describe, but unmistakable when
you experience it.
The Yashica lenses do just fine. Use a lens shade, don't shoot wide open if
you don't have to, shoot from a tripod, and there is not a pair of eyes on
earth that will be able to tell your shots from shots taken with a good
Xenar or Tessar. Only very seldom will a Planar or Xenotar outperform your
Yashinon, but when it does the difference will be vivid.
The Yashicas and f3.5 Rolleis have the same bayonet mount and take the same
lens accessories. There are many Rollei accessories available (rangefinder
doodads, 35mm kits, special chains), but I don't consider them important for
photography.
The on-camera meter isn't worth using for serious photography. Get a
hand-held, whichever TLR you use.
If you have a choice of a good Rollei product or a good Yashica-Mat 124 or
124-G for the same money, and don't care about 220 film, choose the Rollei.
If ease of focus and a bright viewfinder is important to you (it is to me)
choose the Yashica. Otherwise, don't spend extra money for the Rollei. Go
for a Yashica-Mat with a Yashinon lens (it doesn't have to be a 124, and
could be a plain vanilla Yashica-Mat) and use the money you save to buy a
lens shade, a tripod quick-release plate, and film to do controlled
experiments with. They'll improve your photography far more than the Rollei
nameplate will.
--
Hitting "reply-to" won't get a reply past the spam blocker, so please
reply to: davi...@shaw.wave.ca
David Foy, 1431 6th St NW, Calgary AB T2M 3E7 (403)282-0512
finn wrote in message <6hibrs$9cl$1...@Jupiter.Mcs.Net>...
>I've been browsing the newsgroups, the MF forum and the Web for
>weeks now, trying to decide which MF TLR camera to purchase.
>I was all set to buy the 124G when I began reading about the superior
>optics of the Rollei's. It's true I want a starter camera, but I
>also want a camera that takes great pictures! I'm looking to spend
>in the $200-$250 range (but I'm flexible). What should I do?
>
>some questions:
>
>-Rolleicord V (what's the difference between Va and Vb)?
>-does the Yashicamat 124G (have the potential to) take good pictures?
>-what is the comparable Rolleiflex? (which lens is the best?)
>
>Thanks!
Setyo Nugroho
Hi all,
I am wondering if somebody can give me pointer to a web pages
that contain information about folding camera (Med Format off
course)
Thanks
Setyo
On 22 Apr 1998, Mark Langer wrote:
> Without disparaging the performance of the Yashica 124G, it doesn't really
> deliver in the "bang for the buck" range, and neither will a Rolleiflex
<snip>
>
> Mark
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Mark Langer
>
> Email address: mla...@ccs.carleton.ca
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
---------------------------------------------------------
Setyo Nugroho Digital & Computer Engineering,
Electrical Engineering Department
Texas A&M University
Web Page http://people.tamu.edu/~s0n9226
---------------------------------------------------------
David F. Stein
Thanks for the lucid comments by all on this thread.
I would add one additional "paradox." While the Rolleis are more
expensive (I don't own one), it is noteworthy that there remain many
excellent repair people, including factory veterans, to work on these
cameras. And since so many Rolleis were produced, these repair people
have, I believe, ample parts cameras. On the other hand, I'm guessing
that it may be harder and less cost effective to get a Yashicamat or
even Autocord repaired. Thus, does anyone know some good Yashica and
Minolta TLR repair people.
Sincerely,
David Stein