Sinar F2 vs F1?
Jan-Peter Meyn
a...@cs.toronto.edu (Alvin Chia-Hua Shih) wrote:
> Just wondering what the differences are. I'm thinking of getting a LF
> monorail for field work. Lots of F1's around. I'm curious what the
> more expensive F2 does better.
The f2 has an additional micrometer focus on the front and an image plane
exposure meter attechment on the back. Both features are useful for studio,
but useless in the field.
Jan-Peter
Praveen Murthy
As I recall, the only thing it has is a micro-focus for the front standard;
the F-1 only has it for the back.
I used an F-1 for 2-3 months recently and it is a great camera. The
only thing is it seems too heavy for field use. Also, I don't know
how one lugs around these things; the hard Sinar case it comes with is
clearly not the way.
Praveen K. Murthy (mur...@eecs.berkeley.edu) Phone: 510-642-0395
Graduate Student Researcher, Dept. of EECS Fax: 510-642-2739
Univ. of California, Berkeley. WWW: http://ptolemy.eecs.berkeley.edu/~murthy/
DSP Seminar home page: http://ptolemy.eecs.berkeley.edu/dsp-seminar/
In article <1995Nov20.0...@jarvis.cs.toronto.edu>, a...@cs.toronto.edu (Alvin Chia-Hua Shih) writes:
|> Just wondering what the differences are. I'm thinking of getting a LF
|> monorail for field work. Lots of F1's around. I'm curious what the
|> more expensive F2 does better.
|>
|> ACS
|> --
|> Alvin C. Shih <a...@cs.utoronto.ca>| To live in a society that does not treat
|> Canon EOS FAQ HTML scribe... | its elders with dignity is to live in a
|> http://www.cs.utoronto.ca/~acs/ | society of constant fear; for no one is
|> ftp://ftp.cs.utoronto.ca/pub/acs/ | immune to the effects of time...
--
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Praveen K. Murthy (mur...@eecs.berkeley.edu) Phone: 510-642-0395
Graduate Student Researcher, Dept. of EECS Fax: 510-642-2739
Univ. of California, Berkeley. WWW: http://ptolemy.eecs.berkeley.edu/~murthy/
Jan-Peter Meyn
[...]
> I used an F-1 for 2-3 months recently and it is a great camera. The
> only thing is it seems too heavy for field use. Also, I don't know
> how one lugs around these things; the hard Sinar case it comes with is
> clearly not the way.
>
you are. You can carry the sinar hardcase with camera and a 4.5/90 moster
over
2 miles without loosing an arm ;-) Any hobby large format photographer
fulfils the requirement "crazy" per se.
Seriosly, the weight of the f1, f2 and a1 is
not significantly more than a light wooden field camera.
My dream is an upgrade to the f1, which I then would mount on a 6" extension
rail to have a folded camera about 6"x5"x8" which should easily fit in any
backpack. The 12" basis rail is then my extension. I hope I understood the
sinar idea "every piece is useful in a different way", has anyone doubts that
it does not work?
Jan-Peter
Roger
>monorail for field work. Lots of F1's around. I'm curious what the
>more expensive F2 does better.
You mentioned 'field work'. This is besides the point, but are you going
to do any hiking with it, or travel some distance from your car? In which
case, you ought to take a look at some of the fold-up cameras which are a
easier to carry around.
If you want the equivalent of Sinar quality in a wooden field camera,
check out a Wisner.
Roger
Praveen Murthy
In article <Bruce_Barrett-2...@n2-18-8.dynamac.genmagic.com>, Bruce_...@genmagic.com (Bruce Barrett) writes:
|> Hi All,
|>
|> mur...@rice.eecs.berkeley.edu (Praveen Murthy) wrote:
|> ---------------------- start -------------
|> ...I used an F-1 for 2-3 months recently and it is a great camera.
|> how one lugs around these things; the hard Sinar case it comes with is
|> clearly not the way.
|>
|> Clearly! Though I've done it a bit. I move both standards onto the
|> smallest rail I have & stuff it in a backpack. Bulky, but doable.
|>
Hi,
How do you protect the ground glass and the bellows? Is there some sort
of protector you can get for the camera? I was hesitant to stuff it in a
backpack for these reasons. I suppose a good photo-backpack should give it
enough shielding and protection?
Bruce Barrett
mur...@rice.eecs.berkeley.edu (Praveen Murthy) wrote:
---------------------- start -------------
...I used an F-1 for 2-3 months recently and it is a great camera.
The only thing is it seems too heavy for field use. Also, I don't know
how one lugs around these things; the hard Sinar case it comes with is
clearly not the way.
---------------------- end -------------
Clearly! Though I've done it a bit. I move both standards onto the
smallest rail I have & stuff it in a backpack. Bulky, but doable.
Roger <u2...@popmail.mcs.net> wrote:
---------------------- start -------------
If you want the equivalent of Sinar quality in a wooden field camera,
check out a Wisner.
---------------------- end -------------
The quality may be the same but it's still mot as ridgid (structurally)
or flexabile (operationally) as the F1. I'm sure it's more compact
and a bit lighter.
In article <1995Nov21.0...@jarvis.cs.toronto.edu>,
a...@cs.toronto.edu (Alvin Chia-Hua Shih) wrote:
> [snip]
> Thus, I will need movements beyond most field cameras. The Arca Swiss
> sounded like an good compromise, but it's effictively more than twice
> as expensive as a Sinar since there's a lot of used Sinar stuff, but
> not much Arca Swiss.
This was exactly my thinking. I went with the F1. There just isn't
much Arca Swiss in the used market.
I think the features of F2 over F2 are:
Front micro focus
seperate control locks for shift & swing (F1 uses the same lever
to lock both)
F2's a bit heavier
There may be others.
In short, get the F1 -- consider lugging it your new excercise program ;-)
Really it's only about 3 pounds more than a Wisner and with all the other
stuff you need I don't feel that the difference it that great. Your
milage may vary.
--Bruce Barrett _ bruce_...@genmagic.com
--General Magic [_]< View cameras: f22 and be
/ \ there... 20 minutes early.
Alvin Chia-Hua Shih
>a...@cs.toronto.edu (Alvin Chia-Hua Shih) wrote:
>You mentioned 'field work'. This is besides the point, but are you going
>to do any hiking with it, or travel some distance from your car? In which
>case, you ought to take a look at some of the fold-up cameras which are a
>easier to carry around.
>
>check out a Wisner.
>
My landscape photography will take place mostly on hikes on mountain
trails in BC. But that won't happen more than twice a year.
So the rest of the time, I'll be in Toronto dabbling in architecture.
Thus, I will need movements beyond most field cameras. The Arca Swiss
sounded like an good compromise, but it's effictively more than twice
as expensive as a Sinar since there's a lot of used Sinar stuff, but
not much Arca Swiss.
Sigh.
Roger
>In article <48r5r6$a...@news1.mcs.net>, Roger <u2...@popmail.mcs.net> wrote:
>>a...@cs.toronto.edu (Alvin Chia-Hua Shih) wrote:
> [...]
>>You mentioned 'field work'. This is besides the point, but are you going
>>to do any hiking with it, or travel some distance from your car? In which
>>case, you ought to take a look at some of the fold-up cameras which are a
>>easier to carry around.
>>
>>If you want the equivalent of Sinar quality in a wooden field camera,
>>check out a Wisner.
>>
>My problem is that I'm interested in both architecture and landscape.
>My landscape photography will take place mostly on hikes on mountain
>trails in BC. But that won't happen more than twice a year.
That's not so bad a problem. My problem is that I am interested in
everything, which translated means: way too much for my
pocketbook..$$$$$$. (Well, there's always some room on the credit cards,
he he he).
>So the rest of the time, I'll be in Toronto dabbling in architecture.
>Thus, I will need movements beyond most field cameras. The Arca Swiss
>sounded like an good compromise, but it's effictively more than twice
>as expensive as a Sinar since there's a lot of used Sinar stuff, but
>not much Arca Swiss.
Those Arca's sure do look nice. Ever check out a discovery? They're
around a thousand $$$. Accessories are somewhat more limited than Sinar,
but can be had for 20% less.
I have read several postings where people traded in their Sinars after
years of use after trying an Arca. The main comment was that the controls
are all intuitive on the Arca. There's a large format home page on the
net somewhere where you can read all about the Arca Swiss.
Good luck...and may you not be struck with my
being-interested-in-everything affliction until you can at least afford
it!
Roger
Bruce Barrett
> Hi,
>
> How do you protect the ground glass and the bellows? Is there some sort
> of protector you can get for the camera? I was hesitant to stuff it in a
> backpack for these reasons. I suppose a good photo-backpack should give it
> enough shielding and protection?
When the camera is collapsed the bellows are so compressed it
never occured to me to wory about it.
For the ground glass I have a $14 Calumet ground glass protector,
but I'd use this for a wooden camera as well - most leave the
back exposed, don't they?
--Bruce
Steve Dakin
> Roger <u2...@popmail.mcs.net> wrote:
> [...]
>>Those Arca's sure do look nice. Ever check out a discovery? They're
>>around a thousand $$$. Accessories are somewhat more limited than Sinar,
>>but can be had for 20% less.
>
>I haven't seen a "Discovery". I suppose it's Arca's answer to the A1?
There's been some chatter in the past here (and the old rec.photo.advanced
group) about Arcas. Included in that chatter was a discussion about the
discovery. Don Nelson posted the best Discovery review:
Discovery --
12" rail, no fresnel, only levels on one side (2) and rear(1),
No front focus (just slide and lock), knobs on function blocks
are cream-colored. Comes with case (optional backpack straps)
Has tiny (1.5") tripod block.
You can add all Arca Accessories to the Discovery to upgrade
including fresnel, additional rail/bellows, etc.
Rod Klukas at Photomark made a good point about upgrading the Discovery:
When you consider the price of upgrading, you come out ahead if you buy
one of the better models to start. So if you're planning to go the
upgrade route, you might be better off saving your pennies a little
longer and getting one of the better models.
>One of the local dealers is going to send me the Arca and Sinar
>catalogues. Hopefully I'll be able to get a look at the Discovery
>in there.
I decided for my own needs that the Discovery was too limited but that's
just my opinion.
=Steve
Bruce Clarke
Bruce_...@genmagic.com (Bruce Barrett) wrote:
>snip
>
> This was exactly my thinking. I went with the F1. There just isn't
> much Arca Swiss in the used market.
>
> I think the features of F2 over F2 are:
> Front micro focus
> seperate control locks for shift & swing (F1 uses the same lever
> to lock both)
> F2's a bit heavier
>
> There may be others.
One other important difference between the F1 and the F2 is the monorail
block on the front standard. The F2 has a front standard block that
encircles the monorail like the rear standard block. The F1 has the
old-style hinged clamp that can be opened and slid over the middle of the
rail. The problem with this style is what I consider to be a design flaw.
If you are not EXTREMELY CAREFUL when tightening the clamp, you will break
the plastic around the clamp hinge and it will not tighten well. I have
been through two rail blocks for the front standard of my F+ because of
this problem. If the price of a front F2 standard was not so high (over
$500) I would upgrade my existing camera. If I were contemplating the
purchase of the F1 or F2, I would fork out the extra $$$ for the F2 based
on the block design alone.
Roger
> [...]
>>Those Arca's sure do look nice. Ever check out a discovery? They're
>>around a thousand $$$. Accessories are somewhat more limited than Sinar,
>>but can be had for 20% less.
>>
>I haven't seen a "Discovery". I suppose it's Arca's answer to the A1?
That's probably exactly what it is.
>Accessories for less? Around here, the Arca wide angle bellows is
>something like twice as expensive as the Sinar's.
B&H price for Sinar bellows:
4x5 Standard Bellows..........235
4x5 Wide Angle Bellows........235
4x5 Extra Wide Angle Bellows..390
LIST price for Arca Swiss bellows:
4x5 standard..................258
4x5 wide-angle (leather)......371
4x5 wide-angle (synthetic)....268
I'm sure you could order the Arca from B&H and get a better price than
the LIST mentioned above, or in your neck of the woods, based on your
comment.
>
>>I have read several postings where people traded in their Sinars after
>>years of use after trying an Arca. The main comment was that the controls
>>are all intuitive on the Arca. There's a large format home page on the
>>net somewhere where you can read all about the Arca Swiss.
>>
>I read about Barry's F-line. But again, there aren't many used ones.
True. Wish there were many more used ones.
>New, B&H sells the F-line for $1999. Sinar advertised that one can
>buy a reconditioned F1 with 210mm lens for about the same money.
>I've seen private sales of used F1's for less money still...
>
>One of the local dealers is going to send me the Arca and Sinar
>catalogues. Hopefully I'll be able to get a look at the Discovery
>in there.
>
>Thanks.
>
>ACS
ROger