Wisner
Paul M. Lavelle
advice from those who own or who have owned one. My main area of interest
is landscape, so I find the ability to switch to bag bellows valuable.
--
Paul Lavelle
Ted Harris
First and most importantly. Much of what I or anyone says on a particular
camera is personal preference. having said that I am a FORMER Wisner owner who
will likely never own one again for the following reasons:
1)They weigh too bloody much.
2)I find them less than intuitive to operate in the field
3)Getting response from Ron on replacement parts and/or new items is sometimes
very rapid and equally as often a very long drawnout process that can get
downright frustrating.
I now use a Phillips 4x5 in the field and, with the "thin bellows" don't need a
bag bellows. I have plenty of movement with a 65mm lens and Dick Phillips has
told me I will get some movement with a 58mm although I don't own one. I also
have no problems with a 360mm at the other ned of the spectrum and believe I
can go even longer. All this in a lightweigh super stable camera that is easy
to operate even in subzero weather. Camera weighs udner 3 lbs and sets up in
less than 2 minutes.
One man's opinion only and you really need to try 'em out and see what feels
best to you. BTW the Phillips 4x5 is a bit less than the Wisner Technical in
price.
Ted Harris
Resource Strategy
Henniker, New Hampshire
Rob Adams
I have a 4x5 Pocket Expedition that I enjoy using. Some will say it has "too
many knobs", but it is the lightest 4x5 I could find. Ron Wisner has always
responded to my e-mails and phone calls.
I'm sure you'll hear many comments. Good luck with your purchase.
Rob Adams
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Sorry for the "anti spam" removeme, but the spam has gotten overwhelming
Guy Washburn/Laura Reiner
I have a Wisner TF 4x5. Fine camera. It is a wonderful camera with very smooth
action on all movements and focus. I tend to use long lenses and it is great
for this purpose, quite solid at full extension for the 450 Fuji even at real
close focusing distances.
The knock you hear on this camera is wide angle lens support. My shortest lens
is 120 and this is handled just fine with the normal belows with plenty of
movement. I got the bag bellows when I bought the camera but have never needed
it. Perhaps if I get that 90 some day...
If real short lenses are your interest with the rear axis tilt cranked forward
and the rear supports adjusted back to vertical you should be able to handle a
lens in the 75-85-90 range without having to play base tilt games. Much
shorter though and the Pocket Expedition or a Canham would probably be a
better choice.
But for long lenses it is quite wonderful.
I got mine used and brought it in to the factory for the check they do to
issue a new warranty (a good deal for $100). With pretty short notice they got
the camera in and out in one day including a bit of cosmetic repair. I think
they went through a period when their service left something to be desired but
that seems to be fixed now.
All in all I think the Wisner cameras are a great value and if you pick the
model which fits the kind of work you want to do, is a fine tool that is quite
beautiful and makes great images. I liked my 4x5 TF so much I just bought a
Wisner Expedition 8x10.
Guy
Joy Olivia Yourcenar
I've owned a Winser Traditional for two years, and have had nothing
but pleasure from the experience of using the camera. I have lenses
from 65mm to 360mm and have the camera with a bag bellows. The 65mm
lens is usable with the bag bellows, but if you are not careful, you
do get the front rails of the camera in the image. With my 75mm lens,
you have to work to get the rails in - I use my 75mm for about 50% of
my work, and I have never managed to get the rails in.
For a field camera, the Wisner is beautifully built, with excellent
flexibility and control. It is heavy (I replaces a 3lb Wista with it)
but I would choose it again, if I had to, because it is such a
wonderful machine.
e.
Eric Boutilier-Brown
Halifax, NS, Canada
Evolving Beauty
http://ebb.ns.ca
After awhile he fell asleep, and some unsteady fairies
had to climb over him on their way home from an orgy.
Any of the other boys obstructing their path at night
they would have mischiefed, but they just tweaked Peter's
nose and passed on.
~J.M.Barrie, Peter Pan
Todd Caudle
bit of a pain (so much bellows!). You might look at an Ebony. I've seen a
few people post their love of this camera, even former Wisner users (hi
Danny B!). They are beautiful, but I have yet to put my hands on one. If
it's everything they say it is, I might jettison the Wisner for an Ebony.
"Paul M. Lavelle" <lav...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:CNb56.55198$f36.2...@news20.bellglobal.com...
Kerry L. Thalmann
> I now use a Phillips 4x5 in the field and, with the "thin bellows" don't need a
> bag bellows. I have plenty of movement with a 65mm lens and Dick Phillips has
> told me I will get some movement with a 58mm although I don't own one. I also
> have no problems with a 360mm at the other ned of the spectrum and believe I
> can go even longer. All this in a lightweigh super stable camera that is easy
> to operate even in subzero weather. Camera weighs udner 3 lbs and sets up in
> less than 2 minutes.
Hi Ted,
The specs I've seen on the Phillips put the weight in the 4 1/2 lb range
(give or take a few ounces depending on which bellows, etc.). If it
really is under 3 lbs., that would make it lighter than an unmodifed
Toho FC-45X (my slightly modified Toho comes in at 2 lb. 12 1/2 oz.).
Which would make it the lightest 4x5 currently on the market (I thought
that distinction belonged to the Toho). Perhaps yours is a model I am
not familiar with. Would you mind weighing it on a reasonably accurate
scale (postal scale, etc.) and letting me know the actual weight? If it
really is under 3 lbs., it suddenly becomes MUCH more interesting to me.
Thanks,
Kerry
--
Kerry's Large Format Homepage
http://largeformat.homepage.com
Your online source for totally biased and opinionated
large format equipment reviews and recommendations
Kerry L. Thalmann
> I have a 4x5 Pocket Expedition that I enjoy using. Some will say it has "too
> many knobs", but it is the lightest 4x5 I could find. Ron Wisner has always
> responded to my e-mails and phone calls.
Hi Rob,
I'm curious about the actual weight of your Pocket Expedition. It has
been my experience that many products that use the term "lightweight" in
their promotional materials often weigh considerably more than their
advertised "nominal" weight. This is especially true in backpacking
gear where people are willing to spend a LOT more money to save a few
ounces. I've had my hands on a Pocket Expedition a couple times, but
never had an opportunity to weight one. My former Wisner Tech Field
weighed right at the advertised weight (6 lb. 8 oz.), but I weighed two
different Expeditions (the non-pocketable variety) and they both weighed
4 lb. 14 oz. (exactly the same as my Canham DLC - advertised at 4 lb. 11
oz.). At the time, the Expedition was advertised at 3.9 lbs. (when it
first came out, the ads claimed 3.2 lbs.). I see from the Wisner web
site, the spec has been changed to 4.4 lbs. Perhaps the two I weighed
were just heavier than average (so, who got the ones that were lighter
than average?). Also, according to the Wisner web site, the Pocket
Expedition weighs 3.6 lbs. If that is the actual weight, it crams an
amazing amount of features into such a light weight camera.
This whole weight thing is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. I backpack a
fair amount with my 4x5 gear, so weight does become an issue (especially
when you add luxuries like food, clothing and shelter to the weight of
the essential camera gear). Without the ability to handle and weigh
every camera on the market first hand, it would be nice if we could
start a database of actual camera weights for models both current and
discontinued (I include both measured and advertised weights for the
cameras I review on my web site - not very many at current count). If
people would be willing to post or email me the weights of their actual
cameras, I'd be happy to assemble it in a table and post it on my web
site. In addition to getting accurate weight on actual samples (I use a
postage scale that is accurate to within 1/4 oz.) for current models, it
would also help to get such data on older, discontinued models. It can
be hard to impossible to find data on such cameras, even though they are
still available on the used market.
jo...@exparte.com
will handle lenses down to 58mm just fine.
Bob Salomon
Master Technika 2000 uses the 35mm Apo grandagon with movements, with
the standard bellows and without a recessed lens board.
jo...@exparte.com wrote:
--
HP Marketing Corp. 800 735-4373 US distributor for: Ansmann, Braun,
CombiPlan, DF Albums, Ergorest, Gepe, Gepe-Pro, Giottos, Heliopan,
Kaiser, Kopho, Linhof, Novoflex, Pro-Release, Rimowa, Sirostar, Tetenal
Cloths and Ink Jet Papers, VR, Wista, ZTS
Rob Adams
So does the Wisner Pocket expedition.
I've never used the bag bellows I got as part of the "spring promotion" I
purchased the camera under.
T Pole 1
Warning this is biased since I have a Wisner Tech Field and love it.
Over time in this newsgroups I have read people blasting Wisners, seems most
are upset that they don't come with instructions on how to use the camera.
Let's just say this is an advanced camera and once you learn to use it (which
will take a little time) it all becomes second nature (as with any camera
sysytem). I find this amazing, what the human body can do, you learn where
everything is then you don't have to look your hands just know where everything
is, one becomes one with tthe camera. But that is a different story.
Back to Wally ( my Wisner, it helps to name them). I have had Wally about ten
years now and have had almost zero trouble with it, I've lost two screws but
they can be replaced at any good hardware store. I think that it is a rigid
well made camera and it works butter smooth in all conditions, rain or shine.
The back tilting on its axis is a great help in getting those near far things
into focus.
I read somewhere that Ron designed and built the tech field for the type
shooting he does. Well he hit a grandslam homerun in my book.
I have also seen people complain about the price, yes it is expensive but no
more than anything else in its class.
I also do landscape and am very pleased with the results.
Gads, I am crowing about this camera. How about a check Ron ????????
One last thing. The day I bought mine I dropped in unannounced to the plant and
was given a grand tour by Ron himself. I found the tour to be the salespitch.
At the time he also had a 20X24 model sitting on the floor, I think he made it
for the late Gary Adams. It was a monster, but beautiful. I read an article
about 8 months later where Gary talked about using it. He had to drive the
camera to whatever location he was shooting at, at the time I think it was the
Nevada desert, then have an assistant help him unload and set it up. It weighed
a portly 80-90 lbs. The amazing thing it was identical to the 4X5 tech field,
just a tad bigger.
Well time to quit gushing, whatever you buy use it well, I think it should be a
Wisner.
Take care
Peace
Happy exposures
Gwynn
Daniel Bereskin
way they look, and I admire Ron's achievement in keeping wood/leather/brass
cameras up to modern standards. No one camera answers all needs, hence this
discussion, but one factor that I think has been left out from this thread so far
is that Wisner cameras unquestionably are the most aesthetically pleasing large
format cameras made today. Professionals who use their cameras every day may not
value this factor as much as amateurs like me, but to me this is something to
consider. Sure, the Wisner's combination of features will not satisfy everyone,
but for a practical, down to earth portable field camera that is a joy to behold
and to use, you can hardly go wrong. Plus, Ron will fix it if it crashes!
TimePixDC
From: tpo...@aol.com (T Pole 1)
Date: Sat, Jan 13, 2001 5:24 PM
Over time in this newsgroups I have read people blasting Wisners, seems most
are upset that they don't come with instructions on how to use the camera. >>
I think that any camera at any price should come with a basic instruction set.
All it takes is a photocopied sheet of paper and it resolves any RTFM (Read The
F****** Manual) problems. How about a PDF file on his web site?
fredd_...@my-deja.com
time...@aol.com (TimePixDC) wrote:
> I think that any camera at any price should come with a basic
instruction set.
> All it takes is a photocopied sheet of paper and it resolves any RTFM
(Read The
> F****** Manual) problems. How about a PDF file on his web site?
You're kidding right? A manual for a view camera? What has the world
come to? Do we need manuals for pocket knives these days too? If you
can't figure it out, buy a copy of Stroeble.
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Ted Harris
NOW, I believe if you go back to some of the historical theads you will find
that a manual or the lack thereof is NOT the main rason that people hvae been
critical of Ron's cameras. Rather, it is more a questionof his eagerness to
please and thus often promising totally unrealistic delivery dates for repairs
and parts. Dates that he cannot meet.
Paul and Paula Butzi
A good example of something that might go in the instructions would be
a description of how to move the rear standard forward (to focus short
focal length lenses) using the geared rear axis tilt and the base tilt
together, something that didn't occur to me during the three years
I used a Wisner TF as my main camera. The odds that the geared
rear axis tilt mechanism is discussed in Stroebel's book are
exactly zero - I own a copy and it isn't mentioned. Likewise,
Stroebel doesn't discuss how to unfold a Wisner TF without
abrading the bellows on the front standard, something new
view camera users might not pay attention to until it's too late.
Everyone has seen and used a pocket knife. I'll bet that until
someone lays hands on a Wisner, they've never used that
rear axis tilt mechanism. I've never looked closely at the
new Expedition cameras, but I understand that they have
geared front axis tilt, too. Heck, the damn thing must be
covered with knobs. Maybe it offends your sensibilities
but I think that a short sheet of instructions would
be appropriate.
-Paul
--
Newly updated and moved web site at:
http://www.butzi.net
fredd_...@my-deja.com
Paul and Paula Butzi <bu...@nwlink.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 03:29:43 GMT, fredd_...@my-deja.com wrote:
> A good example of something that might go in the instructions would be
> a description of how to move the rear standard forward (to focus short
> focal length lenses) using the geared rear axis tilt and the base tilt
> together, something that didn't occur to me during the three years
> I used a Wisner TF as my main camera.
Oh come on? You didn't notice that using the rack and gear moved the
rear closer to the front? If it pivots at the center, how could it
not? Certainly you noticed it moved the top backwards?
> Everyone has seen and used a pocket knife.
Not everyone has used one UNTIL they've used one. It's a simple
mechanical device - like Wisner's camera. But you have to LOOK at it
and USE it. Take some time with your toys to learn how they work, what
they can do and how to use them best.
Maybe it offends your sensibilities
> but I think that a short sheet of instructions would
> be appropriate.
It doesn't offend my sensiblities - it just leaves me flabbergasted.
You have a website - you're using technology beyond what photographers
as late as the 30's dreamed of, yet they managed to figure out how
their cameras worked.
Tom Micklin
I bought a new Wisner 5x7 about 2 1/2 years ago and it did come with an
instruction sheet on how to correctly open the camera.
I thought that was pretty interesting and, as it turned out, very useful.
Tom
"Paul and Paula Butzi" <bu...@nwlink.com> wrote in message
news:kn726tk2rieuq3g3o...@4ax.com...
.
Paul and Paula Butzi
>In article <kn726tk2rieuq3g3o...@4ax.com>,
> Paul and Paula Butzi <bu...@nwlink.com> wrote:
>> On Sun, 14 Jan 2001 03:29:43 GMT, fredd_...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
>> A good example of something that might go in the instructions would be
>> a description of how to move the rear standard forward (to focus short
>> focal length lenses) using the geared rear axis tilt and the base tilt
>> together, something that didn't occur to me during the three years
>> I used a Wisner TF as my main camera.
>
>Oh come on? You didn't notice that using the rack and gear moved the
>rear closer to the front? If it pivots at the center, how could it
>not? Certainly you noticed it moved the top backwards?
Sure, I noticed both those things. But it never occurred to me to
use them along with the base tilt just to move the rear standard
forward.
And if I didn't think of it, I expect other reasonably intelligent
people didn't think of it, either. Ron made a post here and
pointed it out, and I wasn't the only one who hadn't thought of it.
I notice that a while back, you offered to scan a set of instructions
for a Beseler enlarger for someone. Why didn't you just point out
that an enlarger is even more simple than a view camera?
>
>> Everyone has seen and used a pocket knife.
>
>Not everyone has used one UNTIL they've used one. It's a simple
>mechanical device - like Wisner's camera. But you have to LOOK at it
>and USE it. Take some time with your toys to learn how they work, what
>they can do and how to use them best.
Oh, I do that just fine, thanks. One of the ways l learn such things
is by reading instructions, and I'm not too proud to admit it.
>
> Maybe it offends your sensibilities
>> but I think that a short sheet of instructions would
>> be appropriate.
>
>It doesn't offend my sensiblities - it just leaves me flabbergasted.
>You have a website - you're using technology beyond what photographers
>as late as the 30's dreamed of, yet they managed to figure out how
>their cameras worked.
And your point would be what? That because I can master a technology
that didn't exist in 1930, I automatically know everything there is to
know about view cameras?
Intelligent people learn. That's what makes them intelligent. One of
the places intelligent people learn is from things like instruction
manuals. This might come as a surprise, but in constructing that
web site you refer to, I often solved problems by referring to the
documentation that came with the software I use.
I don't see a lot of difference between referring to a book like
Stroebel's to learn about view cameras, and referring to a
simple set of instructions. Instructions are useful to people who
are intelligent and have little experience. They're typically
ignored by people who have lots of experience and by
those to ignorant to be bothered.
I'm arrogant, but not so arrogant as to think that no one could
know more about clever ways to use a device than I might come
up with in my relatively limited available time. And I often believe
that the people who know nearly all the clever ways to use things
are the people who designed and/or constructed them.
Brian Ellis
All came with instruction manuals though to call the Tachihara's a "manual"
is a stretch. It was a single sheet of paper but it provided plenty of
information. And the notion that no one should need any instructions with a
large format camera is, excuse me, ridiculous. To someone who has never used
one before, a large format camera can be a pretty daunting thing.
Stroebel's book is excellent but it doesn't deal with the details of
operating particular brands of cameras.
"Ted Harris" <slber...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010113224836...@ng-md1.aol.com...
fredd_...@my-deja.com
Paul and Paula Butzi <bu...@nwlink.com> wrote:
> I notice that a while back, you offered to scan a set of instructions
> for a Beseler enlarger for someone. Why didn't you just point out
> that an enlarger is even more simple than a view camera?
That was not an enlarger, but a print drum which someone wanted to use
to process film.
> And your point would be what? That because I can master a technology
> that didn't exist in 1930, I automatically know everything there is to
> know about view cameras?
My point is that people have been making and buying and using view
cameras WITHOUT instructin manuals and that photographers with less
formal education than you used them just fine. If you can manage a
computer I should think a simple mechanical device like a view camera
would be pretty straightforward.
What would you do if you weren't on the internet and purchased a used
camera that came without instructions?
ri...@gethen.com
I agree completely. I recently purchased a Canham 8x10. It came with
one page of instructions that explained how to open and close the
camera. I could have figured it out, but the instructions saved me
hours of time and quite possibly kept me from damaging the bellows or
scratching the finish. I can't imagine why a manufacturer would not
want to provide this information to someone who makes a major purchase
from them.
Paul and Paula Butzi
>In article <d9h26tkauoefgj064...@4ax.com>,
> Paul and Paula Butzi <bu...@nwlink.com> wrote:
>
>> I notice that a while back, you offered to scan a set of instructions
>> for a Beseler enlarger for someone. Why didn't you just point out
>> that an enlarger is even more simple than a view camera?
>
>That was not an enlarger, but a print drum which someone wanted to use
>to process film.
Sorry for the confusion, but I'd point out that if an view camera is
a simple device, a roller tube is arguably simpler. Why not just
tell him to look at it, and figure it out?
It's not even taking your argument to
extremes to say that if you think that a view camera like a Wisner TF
needs no instructions and you'd belittle someone they way you
did Manny Bhuta for asking for them, then you ought to lambast
anyone who needs instructions for a print drum.
>
>> And your point would be what? That because I can master a technology
>> that didn't exist in 1930, I automatically know everything there is to
>> know about view cameras?
>
>My point is that people have been making and buying and using view
>cameras WITHOUT instructin manuals and that photographers with less
>formal education than you used them just fine.
Well, actually, quite a few view cameras are sold with a small
instruction manual. My linhof was. Other posters have indicated that
they've purchased other cameras and received them.
>What would you do if you weren't on the internet and purchased a used
>camera that came without instructions?
I'd ask someone with more experience to show me how to use it. If the
manufacturer was still in business, I'd probably give them a call and
ask for a copy of the manual. In my mind, using the instructions or
seeking out a more experienced person to show me how to use a
relatively simple device does not consitute intellectual or moral
weakness.
I see from Dejanews that this is apparently your second tirade on the
subject of instructions for a Wisner. I'm sorry now that I waded in.
PHOTO-TECH
>You're kidding right? A manual for a view camera? What has the world
>come to? Do we need manuals for pocket knives these days too? If you
>can't figure it out, buy a copy of Stroeble.
I would think that most of us owned a copy prior to investing
in a good vc. Personally I started with a graphic and then moved to a
Zone VI 4X5 and it took me about 3 months of part time work to find
the advantages and limits of the movements.
Regards,
John S. Douglas, Photographer
Website: http://www.photographers-darkroom.com
=======================================
PHOTO-TECH
>What would you do if you weren't on the internet and purchased a used
>camera that came without instructions?
Reminds me of Tom Hanks in "Castaway". What would you do ?
Figger it out !
Regards,
John S. Douglas
Photographer Web Master Darkroom Wizard
http://www.photographers-darkroom.com
=======================================
Charles P Farmer
I am in no way affiliated with Wisner Manufacturing Company nor do I endorse any
one manufacture with this post. I will say that Ron Wisner has been a friend of
mine for a long time.
I have personally used Wisner cameras for years. I have also sold Wisner cameras
and the cameras for many other manufactures for years.
Several years ago I designed an instruction manual for the Wisner "Technical" &
"Traditional" cameras which covers most of the basic elements on how to deal with
the functions of the cameras. It is simply a five page "how to" covering the
basics. Scheimpflug? Well...that takes time, study, a lot of practice and perhaps
some help from those who know.
The manual could be related to a few other makes of cameras too. I gave Ron a copy
of the manual to do as he wished with it.
Designing a camera manual is a lot of hard and time consuming work. I can
understand why many companies don't do it. It would be very helpful however to
those who need it. It could save the consumer much time and costly mistakes.
I believe that for those who are just beginning in large format may have some well
warranted questions concerning the basic functions of their chosen tools. Folks who
jump to large format may have questions which seem dumb to many. I for one, had no
one to help me when I got started. The few people I knew who were large format
photographers seemed to believe that everything was a big secret. Perhaps our small
group needs to join together and help each outer out a bit.
I will be happy to arrange a copy of the manual for anyone who wnats contacts me.
May we all expose the perfect negative this year.
Best, Charles Farmer
PHOTO-TECH
<bu...@nwlink.com> wrote:
>>That was not an enlarger, but a print drum which someone wanted to use
>>to process film.
>
>Sorry for the confusion, but I'd point out that if an view camera is
>a simple device, a roller tube is arguably simpler. Why not just
>tell him to look at it, and figure it out?
Ummmm I think the point was that the PRINT drum was not
designed specifically for the processing of FILMs.
Regards,
John S. Douglas
Photographer Web Master
http://www.photographers-darkroom.com
===============================
P1034
Over time in this newsgroups I have read people blasting Wisners, seems most
are upset that they don't come with instructions on how to use the camera. >>
I think that any camera at any price should come with a basic instruction set.
All it takes is a photocopied sheet of paper and it resolves any RTFM (Read The
F****** Manual) problems. How about a PDF file on his web site?>>
I feel that if you are serious about photography and get into large format, a
book by Simmons on the process would be in order. There is too much to be
addressed to have a simple how to do it come with the camera body.
Paul Moshay
TimePixDC
Date: Sat, Jan 13, 2001 10:29 PM
You're kidding right? A manual for a view camera? What has the world
come to? Do we need manuals for pocket knives these days too? If you
can't figure it out, buy a copy of Stroeble. >>
Not kidding at all. Just because you can figure it out and I can figure it out
doesn't mean that everybody can figure it out. Don't be such an elitist.
TimePixDC
From: fredd_...@my-deja.com
Date: Sun, Jan 14, 2001 12:06 AM
........you're using technology beyond what photographers
as late as the 30's dreamed of, yet they managed to figure out how
their cameras worked.>>
30 years ago they came with instruction books. I know, I used to sell them way
back then.....
TimePixDC
If you can manage a
computer I should think a simple mechanical device like a view camera
would be pretty straightforward. >>
But the learning curve is shorter with some instructions. I first used large
format cameras in the 70's. I recently bought a Tachihara and it came with a
single sheet of very basic instructions. I read it before I tried to open the
sucker just to make sure there wasn't some sneaky thing I had to do to avoid
tearing the bellows.
Luc Novovitch
> I will be happy to arrange a copy of the manual for anyone who wnats
contacts me.
> May we all expose the perfect negative this year.
This is a very generous offer. But if you're giving it away, why not just
post it on your web site.
It would be easy to read and print for the ones interested, and would save
you time and money.
Best regards.
/ln
---
mailto:l...@overland.net
http://www.sotolgallery.com
PHOTO-TECH
>Not kidding at all. Just because you can figure it out and I can figure it out
>doesn't mean that everybody can figure it out. Don't be such an elitist.
If you can't figure it out with hands/eyes on, then a book
probably isn't going to help much. Most of the time what I read in
books is just clarification of something that I already intuitively
know.
Regards,
John S. Douglas Photographer
http://www.photographers-darkroom.com
===============================
John Emmons
What's wrong with wishing that a manufacturer would include some basic
instructions with their complex camera?
I help teach large format photography, I can't remember a workshop
where at least one person didn't have trouble with what most would
consider basic operation of at least one piece of their equipment, in
fact one of the hardest things to learn as an instructor is that not
everyone knows what you know.
Are you somehow harmed by the idea of large format cameras having an
instruction manual?
I don't get this at all.
John Emmons
<fredd_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:93sjj5$ia2$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
PHOTO-TECH
<JOH...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>What's wrong with wishing that a manufacturer would include some basic
>instructions with their complex camera?
Complex ? Compared to what ? An F-5 fighter camera ? But it
would be nice to see manufacturers put something like a copy of a
decent book with the camera. but not an owners manual per se.
Peter Wright
the camera. I now own a Canham 45 wood field and made the change over only after
serious deliberation. The Wisner is a joy to work with except under two conditions:
with long (i.e. 450 mm) lenses and short (<90 mm) lenses. When using my Nikkor 450
mm I found that the Wisner was not a stable as it could be (I believe the technical
term is boingy). It was especially noticeable when shooting portraits at close
distances. Really a minor complaint.
The real issue arose when I got my 65 mm lens. It was virtually impossible to lock
down the front tilt tight enough to prevent it from shifting. An additional problem
was that I had difficulty setting up the camera for the 65 in a zeroed position.
These two problems combined to produce far too many vignetted negatives :-( The
death knell for the Wisner sounded when I ordered a Super Angulon 47XL. It just
drove me nuts.
I managed to find a very good deal on the Canham. It is a very different camera,
not as pretty but much more pragmatic. So at the cost of a little weight and a bit
of backpack space my problems are solved. I even sprang for the 5x7 back so I can
now shoot two formats.
My opinion: If you stay away from the focal length extremes the Wisner is superb!
If your a lens fiend like me, look at the Canham or a TechniKardan.
Cheers,
Peter
T Pole 1 wrote:
--
In the end;
We will only conserve what we love;
We will love only what we understand;
We will understand only what we are taught.
-Senegal Proverb
Peter Lawrence Wright pwr...@cyberus.ca
Post Office Box 3, Voice: (613)720-2921
Carleton Place, Ontario Facsimile: (613)253-4911
K7C 3P3 http://www.cyberus.ca/~pwright
Chris Hutcheson
manual in the box with my Wista, I probably wouldn't have read it, until
I came up gaainst a problem. Others, though, would probably read the
manual first. Others would phone the manufacturer. Different strokes,
none of which make *anyone* intellectually or intuitively lesser than
anyone else.
A good manual adds value by giving the owner a resource that may be
useful to them, and by potentially reducing the demand on the
manufacturer's time (and staffing expense), which in turn can keep the
cost of the product down. A good technical writer can produce a good
concise manual for a reasonable price, all these things considered. I
would think a field camera would be a relatively easy thing to write
for, gien the relatively small number of parts to deal with.
Cheers ris Hutcheson
John Emmons
missed it.
What is wrong with wanting the manufacturer to include some basic
instructions with their cameras? I would be willing to wager that a
goodly number of folks here would have some degree of difficulty
folding and unfolding either a Wisner or a Canham without someone or
something, ie, a manual, telling them how. At least the first few
times.
And again, is there some compelling reason why voicing the opinion
that manufacturers should include such instructions is so irritating
to some of you? Sounds like some severe egotism is showing to me.
Since no one who has posted in this thread boasting about not needing
a manual, claims to even own a Wisner, why in the world is this such a
big deal to any of you?
John Emmons
"PHOTO-TECH" <photo...@home.com> wrote in message
news:tto46tg09b6vptkmv...@4ax.com...
fredd_...@my-deja.com
"John Emmons" <JOH...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> I'm sorry that my point was apparently so complex, that you completely
> missed it.
And I am sorry that expressing an opinion seems to have irritated so
many. What is wrong with expressing a point of view? I don't find the
opposite view irritating, rather as I said, it flabbergasts me, leaves
me dumbfounded and startled.
Every view camera I have owned has come without a manual, and yes, that
includes TWO Wisners. But what difference does it make if I own one or
two or 7? It has nothing to do with ego. I could see wanting a manual
for a Sekonic L-508 or a Nikon auto everything or an I-Mac or .....
But we are talking about 19th Century (earlier actually I believe Mr.
Wisner asserts) technology here. a strictly mechanical device. All it
takes is looking at and playing with.
Why is it such a big deal to anyone that I express an opinion contrary
to thiers?
fredd_...@my-deja.com
time...@aol.com (TimePixDC) wrote:
> << Subject: Re: Wisner
> 30 years ago they came with instruction books. I know, I used to sell
them way
> back then.....
Perhaps, but the 1930's was 70 years ago, not 30.
Michael J. Kravit
operation. Especially the assymetrical tilts.
Regards,
Mike
TimePixDC
From: "John Emmons" JOH...@worldnet.att.net
Date: Sun, Jan 14, 2001 7:57 PM
Message-id: <QVr86.1661$4y6.1...@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
Why in the world is this such a big deal to you Fred?
What's wrong with wishing that a manufacturer would include some basic
instructions with their complex camera?
Are you somehow harmed by the idea of large format cameras having an
instruction manual?
I don't get this at all.>>
Could be that he wants to keep the "good stuff" secret....:-)
John Emmons
problem here? And secondly, the message you quoted was actually in
response to Mr. Phototech, who shares your dislike of instuction
manuals.
Why is it when someone disagrees with someone who disagrees with
someone else they get all testy....?
Again, I ask, why is the idea that a manufacturer include a manual so
irritating to you? I like the idea of that which does the least harm
being a good rule to follow, using this rule, including a manual does
less harm than not including one, so to me, and I'm sure to some
others, those manufacturers who don't are dropping the ball.
Now having said that, I own a Linhof and a Wisner, neither of which
came with a manual, and I seem to be able to use them both, but it
would have been nice to have something to refer to regarding the
Wisner. Since I bought it used from Chuck Farmer, he graciously showed
me some of the tricks involved in folding it and such, he even aligned
it for me, something a manual might have explained, if it had one.
John Emmons
P.S. Does Humphrey Bogart's ghost know you're impersonating him?
<fredd_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:93vsuf$7pr$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
PHOTO-TECH
<JOH...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>I'm sorry that my point was apparently so complex, that you completely
>missed it.
Hardly. But I'm sure you think so. "Sounds like some severe
egotism is showing to me."
>What is wrong with wanting the manufacturer to include some basic
>instructions with their cameras?
Nothing. But personally I'd prefer that they spend their time
making cameras and not manuals for people that probably won't read
them.
As an example did you read the manual and packing list that
came with your computer ? If so you would be among the less than 0.1%
who do.
Now is a Wisner any more complex than a computer ? Certainly
not.
It's one thing for a companies such as Ford, HP or Red Hat to
write a manual . They have an awesome amount of resources as they
produce high volumes of products. Just how many cameras does R.Wisner
produce a year ? 100 ? Maybe. And boy if he does he sure is busy !
(SNIP)
>Since no one who has posted in this thread boasting about not needing
>a manual, claims to even own a Wisner, why in the world is this such a
>big deal to any of you?
Didn't I mention that I have a Zone VI ? Ah, yes indeedy I
did.
"Personally I started with a graphic and then moved to a Zone VI 4X5"
Perhaps you did not know that Ron Wisner designed and produced
the original Zone VI cameras ? They are still very, very similar. Mr.
Wisner has made many changes and unfortunately not all for the better.
But then so has Calumet since they took over Zone VI. Except for the
rear rise, red leather bellows and the use of smaller knobs the camera
at
http://www.wisner.com/image1.jpg
is essentially identical to the Zone VI that I purchased 4 years ago.
PHOTO-TECH
>
>Could be that he wants to keep the "good stuff" secret....:-)
Yeah ! That's the ticket !
Brian Ellis
Tachihara came with an instruction sheet. My Agfa Ansco came with a manual.
<fredd_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
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fredd_...@my-deja.com
"John Emmons" <JOH...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > Again, I ask, why is the idea that a manufacturer include a manual
so
> irritating to you?
Again, I state, the idea is NOT irritating to me. I have written that
more than once. I wrote it in the message immediatley prior to the one
I am responding to now.
> P.S. Does Humphrey Bogart's ghost know you're impersonating him?
The coincidence has been pointed out before, yes.