Tetenal B&W reversal kit - discontinued!
Martin J.Winfield
called my usual supplier (Morco, UK) to order a few packs & have been told
that it's been discontinued by the manufacturers.
Help!!!
I think it's time for us all to swamp Tetenal with e-mail (details on their
main web site www.tetenal.de
Also, alternative thoughts would be interesting. The Kodak reversal kit
gives rather too much contrast for my liking, & it's also feinishly
expensive.
Does anyone brew their own, by any chance?
--
Martin J. Winfield
Herefordshire, UK.
Richard Knoppow
It really should not be too difficult to brew your own. There have
been a number of reversal formulas published over the years and I
believe a book about reversal (which I don't have).
The published formulas I have are for direct positive paper. I also
have some material on reversing motion picture film.
In general, the first developer is a conventional developer of
fairly high contrast which contains a halide solvent, usually sodium
or patassium thiocyanate. Evidently the inclusion of this solvent
reduces the speed loss when ordinary film is reversal processed. The
formulas seem to center around 2gm/liter of developer. The bleach can
be a dichromate-sulfuric acid type of a permanganate type. I've seen
no discussion of the relative merits of the two.
The clearing bath is either sulfite or metabisulfite, I think Kodak
Hypo Clearing agent would do at a somewhat stronger dilution than used
for a wash aid. The second developer is a conventional developer,
preferably one with not too much halide solvent in it. Probably even
Dektol would work for most uses. If a conventional developer is used
for the reversal development the emulsion must be fogged with strong
light. However, either a fogging agent can be added to the developer
(like thiocarbamide) or a non-selective agent like Sodium Sulfide can
be used. Sulfide will yeild a sepia image. It is usually suggested
that the last step be fixing. In priciple, there should be no halide
left after reversal development but in practice evidently there
sometimes is so fixing seems to be good practice.
It seems that if sulfide is used for reversal the reversal
development can be done before bleaching. Since the reversal image is
composed of silver sulfide rather than sulfur it will not be removed
by the bleach.
I wish I had more practical detail or the time to experiment with
devising some practical formulas. I think the first developer is
really the key to good results.
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, Ca.
dick...@ix.netcom.com
Thor Lancelot Simon
Richard Knoppow <dick...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>"Martin J.Winfield" <mj.wi...@dial.pipex.xx.com> wrote:
>
>>Are there any other users of Tetenal's b&w reversal kit out there? I've just
>>called my usual supplier (Morco, UK) to order a few packs & have been told
>>that it's been discontinued by the manufacturers.
>>
>>Help!!!
>>
>>I think it's time for us all to swamp Tetenal with e-mail (details on their
>>main web site www.tetenal.de
>>
>>Also, alternative thoughts would be interesting. The Kodak reversal kit
>>gives rather too much contrast for my liking, & it's also feinishly
>>expensive.
>>
>>Does anyone brew their own, by any chance?
>>
>>
>been a number of reversal formulas published over the years and I
>believe a book about reversal (which I don't have).
> The published formulas I have are for direct positive paper. I also
>have some material on reversing motion picture film.
Here is some information from Ron Speirs, who used to frequent
this newsgroup. First is information on reversal processing
black-and-white negative film, and then there's some on positive
processing black-and-white paper.
Also of interest may be Kodak SO-339 direct-positive sheet film.
Develop to completion in Dektol and you get a positive image. Very
useful stuff.
| Here is how black-and-white reversal processing works:
|
| The First Developer is an ordinary high contrast negative developer with
| a silver solvent (sodium thiocyanate or sodium thiosulfate) added to remove
| just enough silver to produce clear highlights. The film is then rinsed.
| The Bleach (potassium dichromate with sulfuric acid or sodium bisulfate)
| removes the *developed* negative image from the film, but leaves the
| *undeveloped* silver halides intact. The film is rinsed again and goes
| to a Clearing Bath (sodium sulfite) which neutralizes any remaining bleach.
| Then the film is either exposed to light or fogged chemically, which
| makes the remaining undeveloped silver halides developable. A Second
| Developer, essentially the same as the first developer without the
| halide solvent, develops the remaining "positive" image. This is followed
| by a standard fixer, wash, dry.
|
| Since the image is composed of the same kind of developed silver halides
| as in a negative-processed film, I would expect the grain and archival
| properties to be the same.
|
| There are several B&W films which can be processed to yield positives
| (slides). Unfortunately, the most common, Panatomic X, is discontinued.
| However, two other thin-film emulsion films should work as well: Ilford
| Pan F and Agfapan 25. Kodak Technical Pan and T-Max 100 will also work
| with the appropriate developer. Following are recipes for 4 developers
| and other solutions. The first two, Kodak D-67 and Z-7 were for the Pan-X
| film, and should be used for Pan F and Agfapan. The next two are for
| Tech Pan and T-Max. I tried T-Max 100 film in the Z-7 developer; it didn't
| look too good, so I would recommend that you stick with the developer
| listed.
|
| As far as the other solutions go, I cannot explain the differences in
| the formulas. Since the bleach and second developer reactions go to
| completion, I really don't think that the different formulas would make
| much difference. I would discourage the use of Sulfuric Acid in the bleach
| because it is hazardous and hard for a private person to obtain. The
| Sodium Bisulfate works just as well. Also, I wouldn't bother with the
| FD-70a redeveloper; it only lasts an hour once mixed and light reversal
| is easy enough and much cheaper.
|
| FIRST DEVELOPER
| Kodak D67 Z-7 Tech Pan T-Max
|
| Metol (Elon) 2.0 g 4.0 g 2.0 g
| Phenidone 0.25 g
| Sodium Sulfite 90 g 34 g 25 g 100 g
| Hydroquinone 8 g 5.6 g 5.0 g 5.0 g
| Sodium Carbonate Mono 52 g 36 g 30 g 60 g
| Potassium Bromide 5 g 1.6 g 2.0 g 4.0 g
| Benzotriazole 0.25 g .03 g
| Sodium Thiosulfate Penta 16 g
| Sodium Thiocyanate 51% 3.0 mL 4.0 mL 3.0 mL
| Potassium Iodide 0.1% 10 mL
| Water to make 1 L 1 L 1 L 1 L
| Time 8 min 6 min 10 min 10 min
| Temperature F 68 68 75 68
|
|
| BLEACH
|
| Potassium Dichromate 9.5 g 11 g 9.5 g 9.5 g
| Sodium Bisulfate 22.9 g 66 g
| Sulfuric Acid 12 mL 12 mL
| Water to make 1 L 1 L 1 L 1 L
|
| CLEAR BATH
|
| Sodium Sulfite 90 g 34 g 90 g 50 g
| Water to make 1 L 1 L 1 L 1 L
|
| SECOND DEVELOPER
| FD-70a Same as D-19 Dektol 1:2
| First Dev
| without
| Thiocyanate
|
| FIXER F-5 or Usual F-5 Usual film
| F-6 Film Fixer Fixer
|
| Processing Schedule
|
| First Developer See times under formulas
| Rinse 2 minutes
| Bleach 2-3 minutes
| Rinse 1 minute
| Clear Bath 1.5-2 minutes
| Rinse 1-2 minutes
| Re-exposure 30-60 seconds each side
| Second Developer 3-4 minutes
| Rinse 30-60 seconds
| Fixer Normal time for fixer used
| Wash Appropriate time for fixer used, 10-20 minutes
| Photo-flo Wash
| Dry
|
| ___________________________________________________________________
| Agitation in the solutions should be 5 seconds of every 30 seconds.
| Re-exposure to light renders the remaining silver developable. The use of
| stainless steel or clear plastic processing reels makes it possible to
| re-expose the film while on the reel. Optimum re-exposure is about 800
| foot-candle seconds, but the amount of re-exposure is not critical. Both
| sides of the reel should be exposed for 30-60 seconds to a 60 or 75 watt
| bulb at 12 to 18 inches. The reel should be rotated constantly during
| re-exposure. A 30 to 40 second exposure to a 40 watt fluorescent tube at
| 2 to 4 inches can also be used. No variation in density will be apparent
| until these exposure values are changed to about 1/10 or 10 times the
| given amounts.
|
| As can be seen from the formulas, the steps following the first developer
| are not too critical; although the clear bath should not exceed 2 minutes.
| Also, room light is OK after the bleach step. I shot Pan-X (developed
| in D-67 or Z-7) at ISO 80-100. A similar modification in speed would
| be expected for Pan F or Agfapan 25. My source for T-Max indicates
| ISO 100. The Tech Pan was rated at ISO 40. My sources also indicate that
| D-67 can be made by adding 3 mL of Sodium Thiocyanate 51% to D-19 developer.
|
| If anyone decides to try these formulas, be sure to shoot a test roll first
| and bracket to find optimum exposure. Since you will get a positive, follow
| the exposure rules as for color slide film: More exposure = lighter, less
| dense image; less exposure = darker, denser image.
|
| I have not tried the Ilford XP-1 or XP-2 in E-6; you would get a positive
| image, but I remember reading an article that said the results weren't too
| great.
|
| (P.S. I saw a T-Max reversal kit in the local photo store for $30. I
| think this price is unjustified knowing what approximately what is in the
| kit (the main ingredients are on the box). Their older reversal kit for
| Pan-X was only $15.)
+ You CAN make B&W prints directly from slides; the process is very similar
+ to making B&W slides.
+
+ First Developer 60-90 seconds
+ Rinse 30 seconds
+ Bleach R-9 30-60 seconds
+ Rinse 30 seconds
+ Clear CB-1 30 seconds
+ Rinse 30 seconds
+ Expose to light 40 W bulb for 3 seconds at 20 cm
+ Second Developer 30-60 seconds
+ Wash Normal paper washing time
+ Dry
+
+ First Developer: The original literature (Kodak G-14, "Direct Positive
+ Photography"), specified a high contrast developer, D-88. I found it to
+ be too contrasty; good ol' Dektol should be a good starting point.
+
+ Rinses should be under running water, or at least two changes in the 30
+ seconds.
+
+ Bleach R-9 (modified):
+ Water 800 mL
+ Potassium Dichromate 9.5 g
+ Sodium Bisulfate 66 g
+ Water to make 1 L
+
+ Clear CB-1:
+ Sodium Sulfite 90 g
+ Water to make 1 L
+
+ Second Developer can be Dektol again. Or if you want a sepia toned print,
+ skip the light exposure and use Sulfide Redeveloper T-19 (Sodium Sulfide
+ 20 g with water to make 1 L).
+
+ Remember that typical B&W paper is blue-sensitive and blind to red and so
+ the tonality might not be correct. To maintain correct color tonality,
+ you could use panchromatic B&W paper - Kodak Panalure or similar.
+
+ As with any positive process, the density result is opposite from
+ ordinarily processed paper: More exposure = lighter print, less exposure
+ = darker print.
+
+ Ron Speirs, Evans & Sutherland Computer Corp., Salt Lake City, Utah
--
Thor Lancelot Simon t...@rek.tjls.com
"And where do all these highways go, now that we are free?"
Michael Gudzinowicz
"Martin J.Winfield" <mj.wi...@dial.pipex.xx.com> wrote:
> Are there any other users of Tetenal's b&w reversal kit out there? I've
> just called my usual supplier (Morco, UK) to order a few packs & have
> been told that it's been discontinued by the manufacturers.
>
> Help!!!
>
> I think it's time for us all to swamp Tetenal with e-mail (details on
> their main web site www.tetenal.de
>
> Also, alternative thoughts would be interesting. The Kodak reversal kit
> gives rather too much contrast for my liking, & it's also feinishly
> expensive.
Practice".
Ilford PQ Universal Developer
Sodium sulfite (anhydrous) 50 g
Sodium carbonate (anhydrous) 60 g
Hydroquinone 12 g
Potassium bromide 2 g
Phenidone 0.5 g
Benzotriazole (1% solution: 1g/100ml) 20 ml
Water to make 1 L
First Developer
PQ Universal dil 1+5
To each liter add 8 g hypo for Pan F or 12 g for FP4.
Bleach
Water 800 ml
Potassium dichromate 10 g
When dissolved, add 10 ml concentrated sulfuric acid, and then add water
to make 1 liter.
Clearing Bath
Water 800 ml
Sodium sulfite 50 g
Water to make 1 L
PQ Universal 1+9
Fixer
Hypam 1+9
Procedure:
First developer 12' @ 20C
Wash 5'
Bleach 5'
Rinse 1'
Clear 2'
Rinse 30 sec
Second exposure - off reel 1 foot from fluorescent tube for 1 min.
Second developer 6' @ 20C
Rinse 30 sec
Fix 1' (or longer as required)
Wash 10'
P1034
>gives rather too much contrast for my liking, & it's also feinishly
>expensive.
>
Martin, I have a very good formula for reversing TMax 100 and 400 if you want
it I will email it to you.
Paul Moshay
Martin J.Winfield
When I've worked my way through the information provided & done a few
experiments of my own, I'll post my findings here. It'll be a few weeks,
though, since I'm rushed off my feet @ present. Might even have received
some reply from Tetenal, by then, too!
Martin J.Winfield
reversal processing kit, the following reply has been received from Tetenal:
<quote>
Date: 17/08/99
Dear Mr Winfield,
Thank you for your recent e-mail. Please forgive the delay in this reply but
I have been away on holiday until today.
Peter Moore from Morco is correct in telling you that our B/W Slide Kit is
now discontinued. This is because the silver bleach in this kit was based on
potassium dichromate. Because of changes in waste regulations in Germany it
was not possible to continue to use this chemical.
Alternative silver bleaches were found not to work as well and so it was
decided to discontinue the kit. I am sorry that we cannot offer you an
alternative.
Yours sincerely
Geoff Giles
Business Development Manager
Darkroom Division
<unquote>