Sinar f2 or Cambo?
Dave Cooney
I'm trying to decide which view camera to buy... the Sinar F2 or the
Cambo Legend. (or Master). It seems like the Sinar is better built
(more rugged, etc), but the Cambo has more of it's actions geared and
the Sinar has less. It's not clear at all from Sinar's web site
exactly which actions are geared, but judging from the picture, it
doesn't look like too many. The Cambo seems well built, but I really
don't know much about it - does it have a good reputation among
professionals? Am I placing too much importance on the gearing
mechanism, or should I go for the "built like a tank" Sinar? I
definately liked the L-framed Master Cambo vs. the U-frame Legend, but
is it worth the extra money?
Karl Juul
Dave Cooney <dco...@netcom.com> wrote in article
<33a4586c...@207.126.101.78>...
I'm a LF newbie, but already I have started forming some strong opinions,
if only money wasn't factored into the equation....
It's nice to have separate locks for each movement, rather than combined (
as swing/shift is on my Toyo/Omega 45F), and would also be real nice to
have geared, self-locking mechanisms for each movement...it would also be
real nice to be able to justify a P2 or an Arca-Suisse M-Series...BUT...if
the camera is not earning its keep as a working professional tool, does it
really even matter?
Unless you're quite wealthy, it makes more sense to acquire top-notch
lenses and struggle along with a less than perfect camera....the image
quality won't suffer and unless you're getting paid by the minute, who
cares???
-Karl.
++++++++++++++++++++++ ka...@wizvax.net ++++++++++++++++++++++
Karl Juul **someplace in upstate New York** KB2XG
1994 Honda VFR750F
1993 BMW K75S-Gone, but not forgotten...
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Gabellini
Buy the Cambo. I've owned both, and the Cambo is actually much better
built. Easier to work with. The F2 is sort of a toy (hoping not to offend
anyone). It's not that I'm a Sinar-heckler, I actually use a P now, and
it's my favorite camera in the world (short of a P2). It's just that I've
found the F2 very, very awkward to manipulate rises, shifts, et.al., but
just FINE if you don't plan to use the movements. The cambo's a real deal,
though not as much as it was five years ago when I bought mine, at its
intro price of 995.
RABASTE
Hello Dave!
Go for the L-frame Cambo. Each movement is separate (great) and locks (not
so great compared to a Sinar P). The Sinar F2 has focusing gears (1 in the
back and 1 in the front) that are self-locking (great) but some movements
are coupled (not so great).
If you were to compare the Sinar F2 and the Cambo, the tank is the Cambo!
I personally own 2 Sinar P's and would never trade them except for P2's. I
shoot in a friend of mine's studio when he gets too busy and cannot handle
the load and he owns a variety of 4x5's, the Cambos are my favorites. If
you become an advertising studio photographer, your lenses are your shots,
not the box that holds them! Bye!
Michel
Sinar Bron
>I'm trying to decide which view camera to buy... the Sinar F2 or the
> Cambo Legend. (or Master). It seems like the Sinar is better built
> (more rugged, etc), but the Cambo has more of it's actions geared and
> the Sinar has less. It's not clear at all from Sinar's web site
> exactly which actions are geared, but judging from the picture, it
> doesn't look like too many.
On the f2, the front and rear fine focus are geared. Depending on your
price range, if you're looking for fully geared movements you might look
at the Sinar x. It's similar to the p2, including the geared self-locking
drives on every movement. It lacks a few of the p2's more esoteric
features, but it's quite a bit less expensive.
- Jeff Isaacs
Sinar Bron Imaging
Fred Whitlock
Dave Cooney <dco...@netcom.com> wrote in article
<33a4586c...@207.126.101.78>...
> I'm trying to decide which view camera to buy... the Sinar F2 or the
> Cambo Legend. (or Master). It seems like the Sinar is better built
> (more rugged, etc), but the Cambo has more of it's actions geared and
> the Sinar has less. It's not clear at all from Sinar's web site
> exactly which actions are geared, but judging from the picture, it
> doesn't look like too many. The Cambo seems well built, but I really
> don't know much about it - does it have a good reputation among
> professionals? Am I placing too much importance on the gearing
> mechanism, or should I go for the "built like a tank" Sinar? I
> definately liked the L-framed Master Cambo vs. the U-frame Legend, but
> is it worth the extra money?
Here's some thoughts from someone who has used both. The Sinar F2 is a
base tilts only type of camera. Cambo's competing model is the SF45. The
Legend is a traditional U frame monorail camera with or without base tilts
(the PC model has base tilts). Everything except tilts is geared on the
legend. I think the cameras are pretty comparable in terms of ruggedness.
The Sinars have always had nice fit and finish and are of the highest
quality. They enjoy a prestigious name. The Cambo looks a little rougher
but, to tell the truth, is faster to use because of the geared movements
and the combination base/axis tilts. It's also just as rugged. The L
frame cameras are just a little faster that the U frame type. It would
require a few paragraphs to explain why. When we bought our last two
monorails, we bought legends because we think they are the best value for
the money.
If you want the fit and finish of a Sinar of Linhof, you'll pay a premium
but get an excellent camera. A Cambo will do exactly the same photographs,
just as efficiently and put up with an all day every day grind. Maybe I
should offer to sell you our Sinar F2.
Fred
Maplewood Photography>
Joe McCary
This last statement is the meat of the matter! Its the lens not the
box! The box just keeps the light out! (sure it lets you do your LF
thing, but mostly it is a light free area to place the lens)
Joe McCary
Photo Response
http://www.erols.com/mccary
Fred Whitlock
Joe McCary <mcc...@erols.com> wrote in article <33A587...@erols.com>...
Sort of. Assuming new lenses, one could say that they are uniformly
excellent although a little different from one another. The box, it's
movements and controls, it's stability and accuracy contribute to
productivity and productivity is money. If you do tabletop photography,
base tilts will pay for themselves in less than a week. If you do copy
work or closeup work, geared rise, fall and shift movements will pay for
themselves in no time at all. I think the camera really has more to do
with things in a commercial environment than the lens. Sorry, Joe. I'd
agree with you if we were comparing lenses, but we're comparing cameras.
Fred
Maplewood Photography
Roger Books
Joe McCary (mcc...@erols.com) wrote:
> This last statement is the meat of the matter! Its the lens not the
> box! The box just keeps the light out! (sure it lets you do your LF
> thing, but mostly it is a light free area to place the lens)
Boy you aren't in the same situation I am. I have my SSG and have no
back movements at all. However, I guess that doesn't affect the ease
with which I take pictures does it.
I envy people who have a cardboard box with a lens at one end who
handload each shot into the back. I guess with the fixed focus you
don't really need a ground glass.
A little story I posted to another group that I still can't remember
where it came from.
: >Seems this young adult walked into a photo store looking at leica cameras
: > (back before Canon, Nikon etc), he had his camera with him, an old brownie,
: > and some pictures. He showed the store owner the pictures which were
: > stunning and asked if a new leica would let him take better pictures.
: > The store owner asked how he got the pictures, he said he held a filter
: > in front of the lens and held the shutter down for ten seconds. The
: > store owner then responded, "A leica camera won't make your pictures
: > any better, but it will make it much easier for you to take your pictures."
: >
If someone is going to spend in excess of $500 for a camera, they certainly
want to get the best they can for their money. I also deplore religious
wars, but if you read them carefully you can find out about the bad and
good points of the equipment on both sides, and thus make an informed
buying decision. The only real question I have for the original poster
is why he didn't consider brand X (where X in my case is the Arca-Swiss
stuff, KEH photo has some used Basic-A's for sale).
Roger
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Joe McCary
Fred Whitlock wrote:
>
> Joe McCary <mcc...@erols.com> wrote in article <33A587...@erols.com>...
> > RABASTE wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello Dave!
> > >
> > > Go for the L-frame Cambo. Each movement is separate (great) and locks
> (not
> > > so great compared to a Sinar P). The Sinar F2 has focusing gears (1 in
> the
> > > back and 1 in the front) that are self-locking (great) but some
> movements
> > > are coupled (not so great).
> > > If you were to compare the Sinar F2 and the Cambo, the tank is the
> Cambo!
> > > I personally own 2 Sinar P's and would never trade them except for
> P2's. I
> > > shoot in a friend of mine's studio when he gets too busy and cannot
> handle
> > > the load and he owns a variety of 4x5's, the Cambos are my favorites.
> If
> > > you become an advertising studio photographer, your lenses are your
> shots,
> > > not the box that holds them!
> Bye!
> > > Michel
> >
> > box! The box just keeps the light out! (sure it lets you do your LF
> > thing, but mostly it is a light free area to place the lens)
> > Photo Response
> > http://www.erols.com/mccary
> >
>
> Sort of. Assuming new lenses, one could say that they are uniformly
> excellent although a little different from one another. The box, it's
> movements and controls, it's stability and accuracy contribute to
> productivity and productivity is money. If you do tabletop photography,
> base tilts will pay for themselves in less than a week. If you do copy
> work or closeup work, geared rise, fall and shift movements will pay for
> themselves in no time at all. I think the camera really has more to do
> with things in a commercial environment than the lens. Sorry, Joe. I'd
> agree with you if we were comparing lenses, but we're comparing cameras.
>
> Fred
> Maplewood Photography
their system all the time BUT I still hold to my statement, that what
makes the image in the lens, not the camera. I can make the same image
with almost any view camera and certainly both of the 2 we were
discussuing (Sinar/Cambo) I have used the Cambo and when it came time
to purchase my own camera I opted for the Sinar. It was a personal
decission. The lenses make or break the images. But what do I know?
Take a look at my web page and judge for yourself!
Roger Books
Joe McCary (mcc...@erols.com) wrote:
> their system all the time BUT I still hold to my statement, that what
> makes the image in the lens, not the camera. I can make the same image
> with almost any view camera and certainly both of the 2 we were
> discussuing (Sinar/Cambo) I have used the Cambo and when it came time
> to purchase my own camera I opted for the Sinar. It was a personal
> decission. The lenses make or break the images. But what do I know?
But which is "better"? Not, which one will allow me to compose better
images, but which one is easier to use? For instance, can you answer the
following, if I have just spotted a gorgous landscape, but the clouds are
going to cover the sun in short order and destroy the picture. Which one
will let me get the picture more quickly? But wait, there's more, it is
going to take some movements to set things up because of the nearby rock
wall. Which camera is better? If the use of movements is counter-intuitive
than beast X is the wrong camera. I may be taking pictures in the wind,
the camera that requires raising the center stand of the tripod to make
up for the lack of certain movements is obvously a problem.
Look, you are obviously a pro or have significant amounts of money. Many
of the people asking which is better are rank amateurs on slim budgets.
This may well be the only view-camera I will ever be able to buy, it has
to last me a lifetime. Of course I am going to ask, "which is better"?
A minor inconvenience that may cause you to trade later is something I
will be stuck with for the rest of my life. All future money is going to
be going to lenses/film/darkroom equipt/...
Joe McCary
Roger Books wrote:
> But which is "better"? Not, which one will allow me to compose better
> images, but which one is easier to use? For instance, can you answer the
> following, if I have just spotted a gorgous landscape, but the clouds are
> going to cover the sun in short order and destroy the picture. Which one
> will let me get the picture more quickly? But wait, there's more, it is
> going to take some movements to set things up because of the nearby rock
> wall. Which camera is better? If the use of movements is counter-intuitive
> than beast X is the wrong camera. I may be taking pictures in the wind,
> the camera that requires raising the center stand of the tripod to make
> up for the lack of certain movements is obvously a problem.
>
> Look, you are obviously a pro or have significant amounts of money. Many
> of the people asking which is better are rank amateurs on slim budgets.
> This may well be the only view-camera I will ever be able to buy, it has
> to last me a lifetime. Of course I am going to ask, "which is better"?
> A minor inconvenience that may cause you to trade later is something I
> will be stuck with for the rest of my life. All future money is going to
> be going to lenses/film/darkroom equipt/...
>
> Roger
Roger, I would opt for a field camera. The Sinar field camera, IMHO, is
easy to use. BUT remember that "MOST" nature/scenic type photos do not
use many view camera movements. Because of that what you are doing is
shooting mostly a large box camera. I know it is true that if you are
doing closeup shots or the side of a cliff or other special case that
you can use the movements of a view camera BUT in most cases you will be
using very dew movements. So the other factors will play more in your
decision; weight, if you are packing in will be a major factor and your
choice of tripod will be even more critical in that reguard. Again, my
choice would be Sinar but I have been using that system for years and
know it pretty well. This is an excellent time to buy used view camera
equipment. I have never seen used LF gear so cheap!
Good luck.
Joe
Karl Juul
Joe McCary <mcc...@erols.com> wrote in article <33AABE...@erols.com>...
> This is an excellent time to buy used view camera
> equipment. I have never seen used LF gear so cheap!
Hum...and I thought I was just getting richer...
Why is it cheap, Joe?
-Karl.
fr...@execpc.com
Just to put another vote in.....I use Sinars and they are most likely the
best cameras you can buy. The F2 is an excellent field camera once you
get used to it. Using the adjustments computer make the camera a lot of
fun and quite accurate. Plus in difficult situations I find it invaluable
for speeding up set up and calculating f stops, depth of field, swings and
tilts.
I use F2s for loco and some studio shooting and P2s for most of my
studio work. Heck I used to use an F 8X10 but not too many people request
8X10 anymore. Anyone want to buy it?
If you can afford it the Sinar system is superior. One studio I worked
for had all Cambos and in just a few years they were pretty well trashed.
Now mind you that's commercial use but still their locking mechanisms
broke, gear teeth snapped and lens board locks wore out.
Good luck....TD BBD Photography Inc.
Joe McCary
$700-$1K range. That to my tinking is cheap.
Lenses are also a good deal now used. Check out the NYC stores and you
will see it is so. Look and compare the prices of LF gear in general to
that of HAsselblad and 35mm AF gear both of those are going up.
Joe