Agfa 5x7 questions
Mark Langer
I need some guidance from the large format experts. I've stumbled across
what appears to be a prewar Agfa 5x7 camera (with Ansco tag added to the
Agfa one) with a Kodak Anastigmat 203 mm f2.7 in Compur shutter. The
Anastigmat looks like an uncoated predecessor of the Ektar lens. I'm
concerned about a number of things. The camera appears to be similar to
the postwar Ansco view camera -- same basic wood construction, but nicely
finished in a naturual wood tone vs. the battleship grey of the later
Ansco, with some curvature to the wood edges, instead of the spartan
rectangularity of the Ansco, and with brass knobs vs. the Ansco's plastic
and chrome. The camera has a 4x5 Graflok reduction back with popup
focussing hood. The back appears to be a custom job, but nicely done.
My questions are these:
1) The bellows on this camera look fairly tatty. Is there some
reasonably-priced replacement bellows in a standard size for the Ansco
camera that will fit, or am I into a custom bellows replacement that may
be more than the value of the camera?
2) How much will replaement bellows of either kind cost me?
3) What is the likelihood of me finding a proper 5x7 back for this that
isn't in battleship grey?
4) The tripod screw on this camrea is in the middle of a large strut
bridging the bottom two wooden rails. Is this indeed the tripod screw, or
a mounting screw for a bracket that holds the tripod mount and is missing?
If the latter, what am I looking at in terms of a replacement here?
5) Opinions on the performance of the Kodak Anastigmat lens?
6) I've looked this outfit up in McKeown's in terms of value, but
I've found McKeown prices to sometimes be fanciful. For example, I'd love
to find a 21mm f4.5 Biogon for whta McKewon says they are worth. In the
real world, what is this camera worth? Everything seems to be there (with
the above reservations), there isn't much wobble in it, front and rear
standards move smoothly in the tracks, finish is battered but mostly
intact. It has all front movements except swing. Rear movements are
limited to swing and tilt.
Thanks in advance for whatever wisdom people can shed on this subject.
Mark
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Mark Langer
Email address: mla...@ccs.carleton.ca
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Richard Knoppow
I'll try to get al of this. Ansco was a very old company. In about
1926 it was aquired by Agfa of Germany (actually by I.G.Farben) and
Ansco products carried the Agfa or Agfa/Ansco name until late in 1943
when the Ansco name once again took over.
The Agfa/Ansco portable view cameras first appeared about 1926. Two
models were made. The Universal View in 8x10 and 5x7 and the
Commercial View, in 8x10 only. The two are similar but the Commercial
View has longer bellows extension and an extra extension bed which
fastens onto the front of the camera, somewhat like the extension bed
for the Kodak 2D.
The 5x7 Universal View was also sold as a deluxe 4x5 camera with a
reducing back.
Both cameras came in a choice of two finishes. The standard finish
was french polished cherry wood with bronze gilt metalwork, the
"Deluxe" version in aluminum gray with bright nickel metalwork and red
bellows. The gray cameras must have looked very elegant when new but
somehow look very beat up when worn.
Pre-war and war time cameras have center tilt on the back. Post war
cameras have base tilt. The knobs on post war cameras are molded
Bakelite, earlier cameas have machined brass with knurling.
The 5x7 camera continued to have rear center tilt in its post war
version.
I believe most post war cameras are also in gray although its a
somewhat different finish than the aluminum gray of earlier cameras.
Both sizes have two tripod sockets. One under the main part of the
bed, the other on the cross bar of the folding bed extension. Either
can be used, its a matter of how the camera balances.
Most 8x10 cameras came with sliding tripod blocks but some later
8x10's did not and no 5x7 cameras had them. The side of the camera bed
is grooved for the sliding block on cameras which came with them. They
are often lost.
The front of the Agfa/Ansco went through a couple of changes. The
original front had no tilt, only side shift, rise, and a little fall.
It had a flat metal brace across the top. About 1939 the tilt was
added in both sizes and a brace with a step was added to help clear
the shutter when rise was used.
Somewhat later the brace was done away with by using a pair of
interlocking L brackets at the sides of the front. I am not sure if
this was done on 5x7 cameras or only on the 8x10.
A large number of 8x10 Universal View cameras were built for the
military during WW-2. These cameras have 6"x6" lensboards to make them
compatible with the Kodak 2D around which the procurement spec was
written. AFAIK, the military did not buy 5x7 cameras.
Non military 8x10's have 7-1/2x 7-1/2 lensboards.
The front rise-fall (there isn't much fall) is controlled by a gear
and pinion mechanism which locks by pushing the knob toward the right
(facing the front of the camera).
A replacement bellows will cost around $100 to $150 USD. No such
thing as a cheap bellows, they are all hand work. I am appending a
list of bellows makers below. I had an 8x10 bellows made by Flexible
Products but was not impressed with the workmanship. You can also try
making your own but its a long tedious job.
The bellows maker will want the old bellows as a pattern and to
re-use the frames. Agfa bellows are easy to remove and remount.
You will just have to watch eBay to find another back. You can try
refinishing the gray back. If you strip it you will find nice Cherry
wood under it. Don't sand down anything which controlls film spacing.
You may not be able to exactly match the finish of the camera but you
will get pretty close. The original finish was french polished
shellac. Takes some work. The next step is refinishing antique
furniture. You are in luck with the Graflok adaptor. My 5x7 came as
4x5 with the original Agfa back. Complete with Bausch and Lomb Tessar
lens, case, Agfa studio stand, and some accessories, being sold as
_furniture_ at a yard sale. I think I left skid marks stopping.
These are very nice and very usable cameras.
The Kodak Anastigmat, 203mm, f/7.7 is probably exactly the same lens
as the Ektar version except for the coating. It was also sold as the
No.70 Kodak Anastigmat. These are extremely good lenses. They are
four-element, air-spaced lenses of the "Dialyte" type, the same basic
type as the Artar. The lens is not quite symmetrical, some power being
shifted to the front element to optimise it for infinity focus. They
have narrower coverage than other types of lenses. This one has plenty
for 4x5 but is just adequate for 5x7. It was sold as an economy lens
for 4x5 and 5x7 cameras where a less expensive lens than the
Commercial Ektar was wanted.
My KA was quite hazy inside the cells with concequent low contrast.
This haze is very common in older lenses. The KA looks like it can't
be opened but that's an illusion. the outside end retaining rings on
both cells come off with a friction tool but the threads are painted
over making it look like there aren't any. A little Acetone on a
cotton swab takes it off. The friction tool is any tubular thing of
the right diameter with double stick tape over the edges.
I've made an adaptor lens board for my camera which takes 4x4" Speed
Graphic type lens boards. I have similar adaptors for both my 8x10
cameras and can use the same lenses on some seven cameras which take
these small lensboards.
The Agfa type lens board is easy to make, even doubled cardboard from
cardboard boxes will work in a pinch (actually crossed cardboard is
astonishingly rigid and strong).
Below is a list of bellows makers. The British company is the only
one who will undertake genuine leather. The others use synthetic
material, which is actually better, but does not always look so good.
They should all be familiar with this camera and be able to give you
accurate estimates on price over the phone or by e-mail.
If I've missed anything, or you have more questions e-mail me.
Camera Bellows
Unit 3-5
St. Pauls Road
Balsall Heath
Birmingham
B12 8NG
http://www.camerabellows.com/
Tel: +44 (0) 121 440 1695
Fax +44 (0) 121 440 0972
Flexible Products Co.
14504 60th St. N.
Clearwater, FL 33760
(727) 536-3142
(800) 551-3766
Fax: (727) 535-1295
http://www.flexproducts.com
in...@flexproducts.com
Joe Merry
Turner Bellows Inc.
526 Child Street
Rochester NY, 14606
(716) 235-4456 x202
jme...@turnerbellows.com
http://www.turnerbellows.com
Universal Bellows
25 Hanse Avenue
Freeport, NY 11520
tel. 516-378-1264
They don't seem to have a web site or e-mail, I just searched.
Western Bellows Company
9340 7th Street, Suite G,
Rancho Cucamonga, CA 91730
909-980-0606
(No web site or e-mail)
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, Ca.
dick...@ix.netcom.com
Ryan
have used it for short hikes with the camera and six holders sitting
in my backpack.
I have a custom lens board mount which accepts Wista lens boards (I
also have a 45DX),
I would imagine the a replacement bellows will cost somewhere between
$150-200 + shipping if you need to send in your camera.
I estimate the value of my ANSCO, without the lensboard adaptor
somewhere between $150-200. I woul dreally love to have the natural
wood version. I have never seen a natural wood back up for auction on
Ebay, but have seen the grey versions. One approach might be to get a
grey back, stip the paint and stain/varnish to match the natural wood
version/ The wood under the grey paint is light so staining might be a
viable approach.
My Ansco has two tripod mounts, one directly under the camera and I
guess that is used when you are not making use of the extension rails.
The other in on the extension rail, and I suspect you would use that
one when using the rail abd adjusting for the best balance.
I have seen accessory tripod mounting blocks for use with large format
cameras as well as a reference to "stringers" which I suspect is used
to strap the camera to the tripod for additional stabilization.
Have fun, 5x7 is a kick.
R.
On 3 Sep 2001 16:11:18 GMT, mla...@ccs.carleton.ca (Mark Langer)
wrote:
Mark Langer
Thanks to Ryan and Richard for their informative responses. Not to flog a
dead horse, but I wonder if anyone could share their real life experiences
in comparing the 203mm f7.7 Kodak Anastigmat to the later coated Ektar
version. Normally, I wouldn't be concerned about an uncoated 4 element
lens, but as this one has more air-to-glass surfaces than a Tessar design,
I wondered what I might expect in terms of flare with the prewar Anastigmat.
Mark
Dan Smith, Photographer
unreturned love. It seems the young George was in love with a comely young
lass and his undying wish was to ask her to share his sodas after school.
Alas, young George never mustered the courage to ask & she eventually
married another. George was heartbroken to say the least & vowed to devote
his life to something that did not involve women, so he took to photography,
business and inventing. But his heart got the better of him in the middle of
the projects and he named one of his lens lines for the girl of his
dreams... Anna Stigmat.
Bogdan Karasek
Thanks for the story; I especially appreciate the story as I'll
probably be getting an Anna Stigmat 203mm in a few days.
Bogdan
--
__________________________________________________________________
Bogdan Karasek
Montréal, Québec e-mail: bkar...@videotron.ca
Canada
"Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen"
"What we cannot speak about we must pass over in silence"
Ludwig Wittgenstein
________________________________________________________________
william mitchell
Don Wallace
"Dan Smith, Photographer" <sho...@brigham.net> wrote in message
news:jpVl7.257247$rV6.11...@e420r-atl2.usenetserver.com...
Dan, you wouldn't happen to know if there is a similar story behind the
famous "Dogmar" lens, would you?
Don Wallace
Dan Smith, Photographer
Don Wallace wrote:
> Dan, you wouldn't happen to know if there is a similar story behind the
> famous "Dogmar" lens, would you?
>
Ah yes, the old story of Georges ugly cousin who picked on him when he was a
kid...