Schneider Sironar N 120mm ?
VILNTFLUID
is in production anymore. I can't find it in a recent Schneider catalogue. Is
anyone familiar with this lens including it's last production and
performance/coverage?
thanks
Keith
Pam Niedermayer
Rodenstock lens.
Pam
--
Pamela G. Niedermayer
Pinehill Softworks Inc.
600 W. 28th St., Suite 103
Austin, TX 78705
512-236-1677
http://www.pinehill.com
annqlee
That must be a mutation, Schneider+Rodenstock?
Let us assume its a Sironar-N then it should have 72 degrees of
coverage=174mm a Infinitum. It is a good performer!
Ann
VILNTFLUID <vilnt...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010516011853...@ng-ba1.aol.com...
VILNTFLUID
I was just waiting for an astute LF'er to see my obvious error. Of course, I
meant Rodenstock...just had Schneider on my mind at the time.
I DID consult the Rodenstock brochure which shows all the Sironar lenses in the
current lineup. The 120 N is not there. I am sure it's a very good lens but I
was wondering why they DC'd it. There doesn't seem to be a substitute. I
don't suspect Bob Salomon would know...I don't think he's a Rodenstock
distributor.
Keith
Pam Niedermayer
know something about this, too, he recommends the S version very
highly on his "classics in waiting" page.
Pam
--
Kerry L. Thalmann
From "Rodenstock Camera Lenses" dated 1/89 (also same brochure dated
11/89):
120mm f5.6 Sironar-N:
Copal/Compur/Prontor #1 Shutter - smallest aperture f45
Image Circle at f22 - 175mm
Filter thread - M52 x 0.75
Rear Mount Diameter - 51mm
Overall Length - 59mm
For some reason, this lens came in a #1 shutter when the 100mm, 135mm
and 150mm all came in #0 shutters. It was also physically larger and
heavier than these other focal lengths and has less coverage than the
135mm and 150mm. Here's the comparable stats on the 135mm Sironar-N
(same source):
135mm f5.6 Sironar-N:
Copal/Compur/Prontor #0 Shutter - smallest aperture f64 (Copal) f45
(others)
Image Circle at f22 - 200mm
Filter thread - M40.5 x 0.5
Rear Mount Diameter - 40.5mm
Overall Length - 43.5mm
So, the 120mm came in a larger, more expensive shutter, was physically
larger and had at best marginal coverage for 4x5. I think when you
combine those factors (especially the more expensive shutter and the
tight coverage), it's not hard to see why it didn't last very long. My
Rodenstock literature collection is very sparse, with a complete lack of
documentation from the entire decade of the 1970s and most of the
1980s. However, I do have quite a few Calumet catelogs from this time
period and even though the other Sironar-N focal lengths are listed in
several, the 120mm Sironar-N never appears in any of the Calumet
Catalogs or price lists I have in my possession. So, if they did carry
it, it was for only a year or two.
On the other hand, 120mm is a nice focal length for both 4x5 and
6x7/6x9/6x12, and based on my experience with other Sironar-N lenses,
the performance should be pretty good. So, if you can live with the
limited coverage (not a big deal for roll film), shoot a little with it
and let us know how it does.
Kerry
--
Kerry's Large Format Homepage
http://largeformat.terrashare.com
Your online source for totally biased and opinionated
large format equipment reviews and recommendations
annqlee
Maybe the 120 does not offer much movement in 4x5 and can be replaced by the
larger covering 115 Grandagon $$$$.
Ann
VILNTFLUID <vilnt...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010516120912...@ng-fj1.aol.com...
VILNTFLUID
Thanks for weighing in.
Your comments make some sense. You are right about the shutter..it's a #1.
The lens was "incidental" to the purchase of a used A Swiss 6x9 FC. The
coverage issue is therefore probably moot. It may make little sense to keep it
as I have a 110mm XL (which I used for 4x5 and 5x7) and the size difference
isn't all that great between the two. I can't imagine that the 10mm delta in
FL is substantial.
Keith
Bob Salomon
2: The 120 was discontinued before the Apo N, S, W series began.
3: While we tried to convince Rodenstock to keep the lens in the line it had
a very short life due to extremely poor sales.
The market spoke for it. The market wanted 135 and 150mm lenses not 120mm
lenses.
So the 115mm Grandagon became the only solution for a Rodenstock in that
range.
HP Marketing Corp. 800 735-4373 US distributor for: Ansmann, Braun,
CombiPlan, DF Albums, Ergorest, Gepe, Gepe-Pro, Giottos, Heliopan, Kaiser,
Kopho, Linhof, Novoflex, Pro-Release, Rimowa, Sirostar, Tetenal Cloths and
Ink Jet Papers, VR, Wista, ZTS www.hpmarketingcorp.com
Kerry L. Thalmann
> The market spoke for it. The market wanted 135 and 150mm lenses not 120mm
> lenses.
Yes, the market did speak, but I don't think it had anything to do with
the upopularity of the 120mm focal length in general, just the
unpopularity of this particular 120mm lens. Specifially, it was bigger
and heavier than the 135mm and 150mm lenses AND had far less coverage.
After all the 120mm Super Symmar HM and especially the 110mm Super
Symmar XL have sold extremely well. But then they have image circles of
211mm and 288mm respectively compared to the 175mm image circle of the
120mm Sironar-N. This alone makes it easy to see why they sold (and
continue to sell) well while the Rodenstock wqas forced to drop the
120mm Sironar-N due to slow sales.
Kerry
Richard Knoppow
120mm lenses were mostly WA lenses for 5x7, the angle of view being
about the same as 90mm on a 4x5. I suspect as 5x7 became less popular
the call for 120mm lenses fell off.
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, Ca.
dick...@ix.netcom.com
Kerry L. Thalmann
> 120mm lenses were mostly WA lenses for 5x7, the angle of view being
> about the same as 90mm on a 4x5. I suspect as 5x7 became less popular
> the call for 120mm lenses fell off.
Hi Richard,
I agree that most of the older generation Biogon derivative 115/120mm
lenses were originally intended to be wide angles for the 5x7 format.
See my comments on this under the 120mm Super Symmar HM in my "Future
Classics" section at:
http://largeformat.terrashare.com/future.htm
However, as I state there, the 120mm Super Symmar was the first of the
newer generation lenses to be targeted specifically at 4x5 users. This
lens was preceeded by the 120mm Sironar-N and the 120mm APO Symmar.
Although these lenses were both compact and light weight (compared to
the older 115/120 wide angles), and offered faster maximum aperatures
(f5.6), they both lacked coverage (175mm and 179mm image circles
repsectively). With 80 degrees of coverage, the 120mm Super Symmar HM
has a large enough image circle (211mm) to be used on 4x5, but was
smaller, lighter and offered better performance than the previous
generation Biogon derivatives. At f5.6, it is also 1/2 - 1 full stop
brighter than the older Biogon types in this focal length range (115mm
f6.8 Grandagon-N, 120mm f8 Nikkor SW and 120mm f8 Super Angulon).
Then the 110mm Super Symmar XL came along and further upped the ante.
Not only is it relatively compact and light weight (like the 120mm Super
Symmar HM), but it offers 105 degrees of coverage to rival the Biogon
types (288mm image circle). It also has amazing performance that blows
away the Biogon types. This lens has been a tremendous success for
Schneider. In fact, almost every 4x5 landscape shooter I know has one.
Personally, I find this focal length to be a very comfortable moderate
wide angle for 4x5 landscape work. Although this lens makes a nice
ultrawide for 5x7, I think most people buying it are 4x5 shooters.
Not disagreeing with your comments about the original popularity of the
120mm focal length with 5x7 shooters, just commenting that these newer
generation 110/120mm lenses have revitalized the popularity of this
focal length among the more ubiquitous (these days) 4x5 shooters.
Ted Harris
my kit. Every time I go to sellor trade it I looka nd say "where will I ever
find something this light and small again?" It is reasonably sharp as well.
Cheers,
Ted
Ted Harris
Resource Strategy
Henniker, New Hampshire
Kerry L. Thalmann
>
> Let's not forget the 120 Angulon. It is the only classic lens that I stays in
> my kit. Every time I go to sellor trade it I looka nd say "where will I ever
> find something this light and small again?" It is reasonably sharp as well.
Hi Ted,
I too am a big fan of small, light lenses - especially for backpacking.
Very similar in size and weight to the 120mm Angulon is the 120mm f6.3
WA Congo. This lens is also sold under the Osaka brand by Bromwell. I
use a little 90mm f6.3 WA Congo as my wide angle for backpacking. In
the 90mm focal length, the coverage is quite tight on 4x5 - a compromise
I'm willing to accept, for this application, for the ultra compact size
and light weight. The 120mm WA Congo is nearly as small and just as
light (145g), and offers reasonable coverage for 4x5.
On the plus size, Congos are multicoated and come in modern Copal
shutters.
On the minus side, Congo quality control seems to be sketchy at best. I
tested five of the WA Congos (three 90s and two 120s) and of the five, I
only considered one of the 90s worth keeping. Granted, this is a
limited sample size, but confirms comments I've read elsewhere. Most
were generally decent in the center of the field, but had considerable
fall-off (in sharpness - not illumination) as you moved off axis. This
is typical of wide angles in general, especially older designs.
Although the WA Congos are in current production, the basic design has
been around a long time (wide field Gauss - same as the old WF Ektars).
I have not tested any of the 120mm Osaka lenses from Bromwell, but he
does offer a lifetime warranty. Perhaps he performs additional quality
control - I don't know one way or the other.
For the sake of completeness, I'll also mention the 125mm Fujinon CM-W.
This is another multicoated, current production lens. It is very sharp
and has reasonable coverage (204mm) for 4x5. It is fairly light weight
(265g), but not very compact (Fuji decided to standardize their CM-W
line around the 67mm filter size, so the shorter focal lengths are
unnecessarily large).
For more comments on lightweight lenses in this focal length range, see:
http://largeformat.terrashare.com/wide.htm
Ted Harris
There is also the 120 Berthiot. I recently got one from Christian Nze who had a
spare. I don't know what the image circle is but it has to be huge ans it
covers 8x10 with movements. It is even smaller than the angulon and congo
discussed earlier.
Since Ihave not yet used it in the field I cant' make any educated comments but
it as a couple of drawbacks for starters:
1)f 14
2)single cotaed
I'll post some info once mounted in a shutter and used in the field.