Ilex #5 Universal shutter & 10" Paragon Anastigmat
Bogdan Karasek
Last week I acquired an Ilex Paragon Anastigmat F:4.5 E.F.10"
Series S #48322.
I intend to use this lens on an 8x10. What are the pros and cons
of this lens? What does the "Series S" refer to?
The lens comes in an ILEX #5 Universal shutter, 1sec to 50, B, T;
and f:4.5 to 45.
Any opinions on the shutter?
Also, I took out the front cell for cleaning. Does the front
part unscrew into two elements?
Also took out the back cell for cleaning. Does it also unscrew
into two separate elements?
And one last thing; the diameter of the hole in the shutter, on
both sides, is 75mm (3in). Would it be possible to screw in
different focal length front and back cells into this shutter?
Sounds like a nice idea to use the same shutter with
interchangeable lenses?
Would it be possible to use a barrel lens with this shutter; am I
correct in assuming that a barrel lens can unscrew into two
parts.
Thanks for any information that is forthcoming.
Regards,
Bogdan
__________________________________________________________________
Bogdan Karasek
Montréal, Québec e-mail: bkar...@videotron.ca
Canada
"What we cannot speak about we must pass over in silence"
Ludwig Wittgenstein
________________________________________________________________
Jess4203
I think there is something like this down at the local camera store, so when I
get by there in a few days I may be able to tell you more. I am going to guess
that, based on the vintage, the f-stop and the name, that this is a Tessar
formula lens. Most other lenses of this vintage which are not Tessars don't
have this large an aperature. Older F4.5 lenses are nearly always Tessars. If
this is correct, I am again guessing that it will just barely cover 8x10
stopped down to f16 or smaller. I am basing this conclusion on the 317 mm
image circle of the 10" Commercial Ektar, which is also a Tessar.
Tessars have an air spaced doublet in form and a cemented doublet in the rear.
Any lens text ought to give you a diagram that you can compare to the lens.]
As far as the Ilex #5, I have never heard anyone badmouth them. They are about
the only option for lenses that require something that big. I am not sure
what other lenses will screw directly into the Ilex #5, but I would also advise
you consider using it as a rear mount shutter for many smaller barrel lenses.
Mount the lens in front of the shutter with suitable adapters, and you are
likely to have little or no vignetting with many lenses, given the humongous
throat of this shutter. For example, a 12" f10 process lens with a 60 degree
field would do fine in this shutter, as would (probably) a wide field process
lens. I am currently using a 12'f10 Wray in front of an Alphax which is surely
smaller than the #5 Ilex, and it is workig fine without any vignetting.
HTH,
Roy
Thor Lancelot Simon
Jess4203 <jess...@aol.com> wrote:
>Bogdan:
>
>I think there is something like this down at the local camera store, so when I
>get by there in a few days I may be able to tell you more. I am going to guess
>that, based on the vintage, the f-stop and the name, that this is a Tessar
>formula lens. Most other lenses of this vintage which are not Tessars don't
>have this large an aperature. Older F4.5 lenses are nearly always Tessars. If
>this is correct, I am again guessing that it will just barely cover 8x10
>stopped down to f16 or smaller. I am basing this conclusion on the 317 mm
>image circle of the 10" Commercial Ektar, which is also a Tessar.
>Tessars have an air spaced doublet in form and a cemented doublet in the rear.
>Any lens text ought to give you a diagram that you can compare to the lens.]
>
>As far as the Ilex #5, I have never heard anyone badmouth them. They are about
Well, now you have. Ilex shutters are crap, all of them except the one
magical one that Lens & Repro fixed up for me after I dropped it and totally
scrambled the innards. And you can't have that one. :-)
Yeah, sometimes they're the only option (though even a large Alphax or
Betax is far superior and the Compound has its adherents too) but that
doesn't mean they're not crap.
They're *never* right at all speeds. Never. Doesn't matter what you
clean, doesn't matter what you replace, they have a single gear train and
you can have one or two speeds dead on but the rest will always be way off.
--
Thor Lancelot Simon t...@rek.tjls.com
the effort to perceive simply the cruel radiance of what is
Luc Novovitch
> Well, now you have. Ilex shutters are crap, all of them except the one
If you want precision, you don't use an Ilex in the first place.
They were designed to be accurate within one speed.
Even S.K. Grimes cannot make them more accurate than they're supposed to be.
And he sure knows what he's talking about.
/ln
---
mailto:l...@overland.net
http://www.sotolgallery.com
Bogdan Karasek
Thank you Richard for a most clarifying and lucid expose in
regards to my questions. It has been very helpful.
I might add that I always enjoy reading your comments and
suggestions and always look forward to them. You never cease to
surprise me with the scope and breath of you knowledge. THanks.
Regards,
Bogdan
Richard Knoppow wrote:
>
> Bogdan Karasek <bkar...@videotron.ca> wrote:
>
> >Hi,
> >
> >Last week I acquired an Ilex Paragon Anastigmat F:4.5 E.F.10"
> >Series S #48322.
> >
> >I intend to use this lens on an 8x10. What are the pros and cons
> >of this lens? What does the "Series S" refer to?
> >
> The Paragon Series S is a Tessar type. They are good lenses although
> not quite up to the Kodak Commercial Ektar. A 10" for 8x10 is like a
> 127mm lens for 4x5, it will cover but will be right at its limit.
> I have several Paragon lenses, they are quite sharp.
> I have no idea of what the S stands for, probably "Special". The S
> series seem to be later versions of the lens. Ilex used Paragon as a
> general purpose trade mark for its better lenses so they are of
> several types.
>
> >The lens comes in an ILEX #5 Universal shutter, 1sec to 50, B, T;
> >and f:4.5 to 45.
> >
> >Any opinions on the shutter?
> >
> Its a reasonably reliable shutter when clean. They were meant to run
> with no lubrication and get sticky when lubricated. The shutter has
> some hysteresis so it should be fired a couple of times just before
> making the exposure. Times are consistent when used this way.
> Ilex shutters, especially the Universal type rely on a balance
> between the strength of the main drive spring and the hold back spring
> on the retarder for determining speeds. If both springs are a little
> weak bending the main spring to get the higher speeds up also makes
> the low speeds too high. the retarder spring must be right also.
> Probablly its best to set the low speeds on and let the higher
> speeds run slow. The maximum speed on a #5 is marked 1/50th. It may
> indeed be that for equivalent exposure time when the entire clear
> aperture of the shutter is considered. For smaller apertures its
> actually around 1/30th or less.
> Its been posted that Ilex shutters were intended to be accurate
> within a stop. Well, that's a 2:1 speed range. They are much better
> than that, even the #5 Universal, which is about the worst of them.
> Its a good idea to have a Calumet shutter tester when using older
> shutters, most of them are off at some part of the range but may be
> quite consistent. This little tester was about $80 US the last time I
> looked. It is well worth the price.
> I think the only other shutter as big is the #5 was the largest
> Compound.
>
> >Also, I took out the front cell for cleaning. Does the front
> >part unscrew into two elements?
> >
> My 8-1/2 lens has a back cap which unscrews allowing access to the
> inside surfaces.
>
> >Also took out the back cell for cleaning. Does it also unscrew
> >into two separate elements?
> >
> No, there is only one component there, a cemented pair. Both
> surfaces are exposed when the cell is removed.
>
> >And one last thing; the diameter of the hole in the shutter, on
> >both sides, is 75mm (3in). Would it be possible to screw in =
> >
> >different focal length front and back cells into this shutter? =
> >
> Sort of. Ilex made sets of lenses at one time. You could buy several
> focal lengths of Tessar type lenses which fit the same size shutters.
> A lens must be adapted to a shutter so that the spacing of the
> elements is right. Most high quality lenses are very sensitive to
> small variations in spacing. So, even if the lens screws in you must
> make sure the spacing is correct.
> You also must have a stop calibration which is right for each lens.
> A PITA if you must change it constantly and a PITA when several scales
> are engraved on the same plate.
>
> >Sounds like a nice idea to use the same shutter with
> >interchangeable lenses?
> >
>
> Well, that was the idea of the convertible sets sold decades ago.
> However, I think its easier to deal with lenses with dedicated
> shutters.
>
> >Would it be possible to use a barrel lens with this shutter; am I
> >correct in assuming that a barrel lens can unscrew into two
> >parts. =
> >
> In principle, yes. But again the cells must fit with the right
> spacing and the aperture plate must match the lens.
> A large shutter like this one can be set up as a sort of universal
> back shutter by mounting a lens board adaptor or iris clamp on its
> front. It can then be used for any barrel lens within its size. The
> aperture is controlled by the original iris in the barrel, the lens
> iris being left wide open all the time.
> I have a #5 Ilex Universal set up this way and can use it with any
> lens from an extra wide angle B&L Protar to very long process lenses.
>
> With all the criticism of Ilex its interesting that the "modern"
> gear train speed regulator, used in all shutters after about 1930, is
> an Ilex patent. The company went along for many years on the royalties
> for this patent, which was licensed to practically all other shutter
> manufacturers
> Ilex also made an enormous number of lenses on contract. They could
> build really excellent lenses when the demand was made. All the early
> Caltar lenses were made by Ilex as were the lenses (and shutters) for
> the famous Argus "brick".
>
> >
> >Thanks for any information that is forthcoming.
> >
> >Regards,
> >Bogdan
> >__________________________________________________________________
> > Bogdan Karasek
> > Montr=E9al, Qu=E9bec e-mail: bkar...@videotron.ca
> > Canada =
> >
> >
> > "What we cannot speak about we must pass over in silence"
> > Ludwig Wittgenstein =
> >
> >________________________________________________________________
>
> ---
> Richard Knoppow
> Los Angeles, Ca.
> dick...@ix.netcom.com
--
Richard Knoppow
Patrick Bartek
> Last week I acquired an Ilex Paragon Anastigmat F:4.5 E.F.10"
> Series S #48322.
>
>
> I intend to use this lens on an 8x10. What are the pros and cons
> of this lens? What does the "Series S" refer to?
You're going to have problems. This lens won't cover an 8x10. I had
a 6.3 version of this lens about 20 years ago. It is a Tessar type
and has only a 58 degree image circle at f22. That's about a 10.75
inch circle -- 274mm. You need at least 312mm for 8x10.
Other than that, mine produced sharp, contrasty images on 4x5. Mine
was single coated. Probably made circa early '60s.
Don't know what the "S" refers to.
> The lens comes in an ILEX #5 Universal shutter, 1sec to 50, B, T;
> and f:4.5 to 45.
>
> Any opinions on the shutter?
Never had any problems with mine... After I had it rebuilt. ;-)
--
Patrick Bartek
NoLife Polymath Group
bar...@pdai.com
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