B/W negative densitometer recommendations
Mark Anderson
a local densitometer to use, (e.g. thru clubs, schools, etc.). I'm
looking for options for test negative density measurements. Such as:
1) Buy a #2 Calibrated Step tablet (~$150) and eyeball the densities
vs. the negs.
2) Use the #2 and use my spotmeter as a comparator.
3) Buy a densitometer. Which one? How much?
Calumet current are selling:
a) Photronix Digital $596
b) Heiland TRD2 $895
I've found info on several others.
Opinions solicited and appreciated.
JW
Bob Wheeler
Darkroom Innovations. For about $50 you can
calibrate a single film and set of processing
conditions.
Mark Anderson wrote:
>
> I'm getting started in 4x5 zone system work. I haven't yet tracked down
> a local densitometer to use, (e.g. thru clubs, schools, etc.). I'm
> looking for options for test negative density measurements. Such as:
>
> 1) Buy a #2 Calibrated Step tablet (~$150) and eyeball the densities
> vs. the negs.
>
> 2) Use the #2 and use my spotmeter as a comparator.
>
> 3) Buy a densitometer. Which one? How much?
> Calumet current are selling:
> a) Photronix Digital $596
> b) Heiland TRD2 $895
> I've found info on several others.
>
> Opinions solicited and appreciated.
--
Bob Wheeler --- (Reply to: bwhe...@echip.com)
ECHIP, Inc.
Sandy King
ande...@teleport.com (Mark Anderson) wrote:
> I'm getting started in 4x5 zone system work. I haven't yet tracked down
> a local densitometer to use, (e.g. thru clubs, schools, etc.). I'm
> looking for options for test negative density measurements. Such as:
>
> 1) Buy a #2 Calibrated Step tablet (~$150) and eyeball the densities
> vs. the negs.
I can't imagine at this point your work is so critical that you would need
a a calibrated step tablet. My advice would be to buy the Kodak #2
uncalibrated (still pretty expensive), or better yet, a Stouffer 21 step
guide (Part #T2115) for less than $6. You can have someone with a
densitometer read it for you but for most work all you need to understand
is that each step represents a difference of about log .15, or one-half of
a stop. I actually prefer the Stouffer since it has the step numbers on
each step.
>
> 2) Use the #2 and use my spotmeter as a comparator.
You could easily calibrate the spotmeter to read transmission or
reflectdiv e densities. See the appendix of Phil Davis' Beyond the Zone
System.
>
> 3) Buy a densitometer. Which one? How much?
> Calumet current are selling:
> a) Photronix Digital $596
> b) Heiland TRD2 $895
> I've found info on several others.
Used transmission densitometers ones are available for a lot less. I have
seen Macbeth TD504 units available for $150 or slightly more and used
X-Rite units are often available in the $300-600 range. The two units you
mention above are quite different: the Photronix only reads transmission
densities while the Heiland can function as both a reflective and
transmission densitometer.
Sandy King
Mark Anderson
> The cheapest (and perhaps best) option is to use
> Darkroom Innovations. For about $50 you can
> calibrate a single film and set of processing
> conditions.
Please tell me more. Is this a densitometer or something else being
used as one?
--
Mark Anderson, DBA Riparia
http://www.teleport.com/~andermar/
"The trouble with good ideas,
is that they soon degenerate into a lot of hard work." Anon.
dave
normal, n+1 development time etc) i bought a cheap close up lens (a Hoya
macro close up lens for about £20 UK) - one of the type that screws onto the
front of a lens like a filter. I taped this to the front of my pentax
digital spotmeter and was then able to use the meter on tiny areas of the
negative. For a reasonably constant lightsource I actually used the white
diffusion screen of my 6*7cm enlarger head as a light box. Remove the head
from the enlarger, turn it on its side lying on a desk, stick the test negs
on the diffuser screen then measure the brightnesses with the spotmeter.
Crude, but cheap and seemed to work!
Mark Anderson <ande...@teleport.com> wrote in message
news:1e41pe6.h4c...@i48-21-30.pdx.du.teleport.com...
> I'm getting started in 4x5 zone system work. I haven't yet tracked down
> a local densitometer to use, (e.g. thru clubs, schools, etc.). I'm
> looking for options for test negative density measurements. Such as:
>
> 1) Buy a #2 Calibrated Step tablet (~$150) and eyeball the densities
> vs. the negs.
>
> 2) Use the #2 and use my spotmeter as a comparator.
>
> 3) Buy a densitometer. Which one? How much?
> Calumet current are selling:
> a) Photronix Digital $596
> b) Heiland TRD2 $895
> I've found info on several others.
>
> Opinions solicited and appreciated.
RICK KELLY
>
> I can't imagine at this point your work is so critical that you would need
> a a calibrated step tablet. My advice would be to buy the Kodak #2
> uncalibrated (still pretty expensive), or better yet, a Stouffer 21 step
> guide (Part #T2115) for less than $6. You can have someone with a
> densitometer read it for you but for most work all you need to understand
> is that each step represents a difference of about log .15, or one-half of
> a stop. I actually prefer the Stouffer since it has the step numbers on
> each step.
>
>
I have a Stouffer 21 step wedge, which I calibrated with a
densitometer, and found it to be quite close to
accurate--more than enough for what I was doing. I used it
and the densitometer to develop entire characteristic curves
for various development of T-Max 100. I will say that the
package my 21 step wedge came in is labeled $22, not $6.
Rick Kelly
Mark Anderson
> I have a Stouffer 21 step wedge, which I calibrated with a
> densitometer,
And the source to buy this Stouffer wedge is? (It wasn't mentioned on
Calumet and I haven't found even the Kodak stepwedges available locally.
In fact, they said it usually takes a few months to order from Kodak.
Presumably Calumet has them in stock.)
Ralph W. Lambrecht
of the Agfa densitometer d103 or d104 for around $200.
Ralph W. Lambrecht
Gregory Blank
always the best sources for this kind of stuff. Stouffer also has thier
own website
I have an uncalibrated Kodak wedge. You need the Kodak part number which
Kodak can provide.
In article <1e444c3.1fa...@i48-19-36.pdx.du.teleport.com>,
ande...@teleport.com (Mark Anderson) wrote:
And the source to buy this Stouffer wedge is? (It wasn't mentioned on
Calumet and I haven't found even the Kodak stepwedges available locally.
In fact, they said it usually takes a few months to order from Kodak.
Presumably Calumet has them in stock.)
--
Mark Anderson, DBA Riparia
http://www.teleport.com/~andermar/
"The trouble with good ideas,
is that they soon degenerate into a lot of hard work." Anon.
--
Gregory W.Blank Photography
P.O. Box 726
Finksburg, MD. 21048
Check out my website http://members.bellatlantic.net/~gblank
Tom Mooney
have densitometers. If you have a good relationship with one that you
regularly use for colour processing you could probably get them to let you
use theirs. I have used one for the last twenty years and the only ones that
seem to be repeatable and reliable cost $1500 and up. How often are you
going to use this and how much do you want to spend???
Tom Mooney
Sandy King
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> Sandy King wrote:
>
> >
> > I can't imagine at this point your work is so critical that you would need
> > a a calibrated step tablet. My advice would be to buy the Kodak #2
> > uncalibrated (still pretty expensive), or better yet, a Stouffer 21 step
> > guide (Part #T2115) for less than $6. You can have someone with a
> > densitometer read it for you but for most work all you need to understand
> > is that each step represents a difference of about log .15, or one-half of
> > a stop. I actually prefer the Stouffer since it has the step numbers on
> > each step.
> >
> >
> I have a Stouffer 21 step wedge, which I calibrated with a
> densitometer, and found it to be quite close to
> accurate--more than enough for what I was doing. I used it
> and the densitometer to develop entire characteristic curves
> for various development of T-Max 100. I will say that the
> package my 21 step wedge came in is labeled $22, not $6.
> Rick Kelly
Stouffer distributes various resolution guides, gray scales and scanner
but the step wedge I refer to (Part T2115) still costs less than $6
directly from Stouffer.
Stouffer Graphic Arts Equipment and Company
1801 Commerce Dr.
South Bend, Indiana 46628
219-234-5023
www.stouffer.net
The View Camera Store also sells various sizes of step wedges for film
testing.
480-767-7105
www.viewcamerastore.com
Sandy King
Sandy King
<tmo...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> I didnot get the whole thread on this but almost all labs including minilabs
> have densitometers. If you have a good relationship with one that you
> regularly use for colour processing you could probably get them to let you
> use theirs. I have used one for the last twenty years and the only ones that
> seem to be repeatable and reliable cost $1500 and up. How often are you
> going to use this and how much do you want to spend???
> Tom Mooney
>
It is important to keep things in perspective. The degree of precision
required in commercial operations, usually involving color controls, is
not required for the practical application of sensitometry to B&W
photography. In this application accuracy of +/- log 0.1 is enough to
allow one to plot film densities and draw curves of sufficient precision
to provide the practical information needed to expose and develop films
for zonal expansion and contraction. All working densitometers I have
seen, including a Weston Model 877 from the late 1940s, provide at least
this level of performance. In fact, most spotmeters can be used in
conjunction with calibrated step wedges to provide repeat accuracy much
greater than log 0.1.
As for the reliability of modern instruments, Phil Davis (Photo
Techniques, July/August 1999) found that the repeat accuracy of the
Heiland TRD 2 was on the order of +/- log 0.01.
Sandy King
Jon Judson
five pre-exposed films, you develop them with your own methods, send them
back, and they analyze and print out the results for you. I'm thinking
about trying them myself.
--
Jon
jju...@spamstuff.erols.com
You Know What To Take Out
Sheldon D. Stokes
First I've been playing with my pentax V spot meter trying to use it as a
transmission densitometer, but the flare is awful and I can't get really
good repeatable readings off it. I'm going to try my luna pro, when it
comes back from bogen with a battery mod and a calibration.
Here's what I did next and I thought this was clever. I have a kodak grey
scale that I bought at a photo store a while back. It's got 1 inch tall
by 1/2 inch wide grey squares that are each 1/3 stop darker. or 0.10 log
densities. I took my blank negative (fb+fog) and placed it on a light
grey square. I then took each negative where I had photographed a grey
card placed in zone 1 and I cut the negs in half so the grey card is right
at the edge of the film. I then placed the grey card exposed negative on
the next lighter grey patch and compared the two (the edges touch at the
grey patch border). I took three film speeds and examined each. I used
tmax 100 in hc110 dil. b. for me, the speed closest to 0.1 for zone 1 was
an ASA of 80. I'm going to do the same thing tomorrow with tri-x (I
goofed up the exposures tonight or I would have that part done too). Both
sheets of film can be shifted to different grey levels to examine the
lighting effects. It seems to work quite well. I'm going to use the same
technique to double check my zone 5 and zone 8 placements.
I'd love to hear any arguements as to why this isn't a good method. I
can't think of any.
Sheldon
Georges Giralt
>
> I'm getting started in 4x5 zone system work. I haven't yet tracked down
> a local densitometer to use, (e.g. thru clubs, schools, etc.). I'm
> looking for options for test negative density measurements. Such as:
>
> 1) Buy a #2 Calibrated Step tablet (~$150) and eyeball the densities
> vs. the negs.
>
> 2) Use the #2 and use my spotmeter as a comparator.
>
> 3) Buy a densitometer. Which one? How much?
> Calumet current are selling:
> a) Photronix Digital $596
> b) Heiland TRD2 $895
> I've found info on several others.
>
> Opinions solicited and appreciated.
This is the method I use, and thought it is quite enough accurate for
me.
First I've bought a Stouffer T4105C (calibrated) for a few bucks. (in
1/6 stop increments !)
Next I use my enlarger as a light source (a diffusion one with 6cm by
6cm neg carrier. and the lens stopped 2 to 3 stops down for a better
evenness illumination)
The measuring instrument is either an inexpensive Ilford EM10 or a 20
years old Phillips PDT021 _really_ good ! Such instruments are
comparators, so I put in the neg carrier the part of the Stouffer's step
wedge grossly near the unknown density and side by side, my neg I plan
to measure. I equilibrate the comparator on the neg, and then go to the
wedge to find the correct density. Once done, I've only to read the
correct density in the Stouffer data provided.
I've used this to find developping times for my films. So I've negs.
with full frame grey card pictures... Really artistic work ! This ease
readings and placement of the whole stuff into the neg carrier. The only
thing to note is that such comparators are really sensitive to all sort
of lights. So be sure that there is no light leak from your enlarger and
you have your safelight turned off ;)
If you want repeatable results, you must note the height of the
enlarger, and repeat your measurement when changing the light bulb, to
be able to correct your readings if needs arise (this is not necessary,
with my setting, but I do not know if it will be necessary with another
enlarger/light source ?
With the difference in the price, I've bought a lot of films... and keep
photographing ....
Hope this helps
--
Georges Giralt L.D. : +33 (0)5 62 74 85 31
Alcatel TITN Answare Fax : +33 (0)5 61 49 02 14
82 Route de Bayonne Std : +33 (0)5 62 74 84 84
31300 Toulouse
Don Connors
Stouffer's number = [1] 219-234-5023
South Bend, IN
Hope this helps
Don
Don Connors
each step is 1/3 of a stop (.10 density). So, every three steps = 1 f-stop.
This wedge closely follows how ISO numbers change (in 1/3 stop increments).
Problem: B&W densitometers do not provide accuarte readings for Pyro-stained
negs...
Hope this helps
Don
Sheldon D. Stokes
donco...@aol.com (Don Connors) wrote:
I just bought their 4105, which has 0.05 density steps (1/6 of a stop),
and it was like $21 I think (uncalibrated), I also bought a 2115 (21 steps
0.15 log) because it was only $5.40
Sheldon
Sandy King
> Problem: B&W densitometers do not provide accuarte readings for Pyro-stained
> negs...
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Don
For stained negatives you should use a color densitometer with the blue
channel. Some B&W densitometers will read the stain accurately if fitted
with a red absorbing filter, such as the Schott BG-28 for incandescent
light or a 47 or 47b for fluorescnet light. Even so the density range read
in this way *does not* correspond precisely to the actual density range
seen by VC papers. A better indicator in this case is a reading about
mid-range between the blue and green channel readings. As one will readily
appreciate, the practice of sensitometry with stained negatives presents
challenges.
Sandy King
Simo Salanne
>
> I'm getting started in 4x5 zone system work. I haven't yet tracked down
> a local densitometer to use, (e.g. thru clubs, schools, etc.). I'm
> looking for options for test negative density measurements. Such as:
>
> 1) Buy a #2 Calibrated Step tablet (~$150) and eyeball the densities
> vs. the negs.
>
> 2) Use the #2 and use my spotmeter as a comparator.
>
> 3) Buy a densitometer. Which one? How much?
> Calumet current are selling:
> a) Photronix Digital $596
> b) Heiland TRD2 $895
> I've found info on several others.
>
> Opinions solicited and appreciated.
Buy Agfa Duoscan scanner, it scans densities and your
4 x 5 films.
Simo S.
JW
Coolscan don't work that well with silver halide film.
Does the agfa dual scan have sufficient resolution to measure density
acurately? You need at least 2^10 bits to be as precise as the densitometers
that Mark mentioned. I am just wondering and don't know the answer.
sps...@my-deja.com
something in your explanation, but I've read it a few times now).
You say you "placed the grey card exposed negative on the next lighter
grey patch and compared the two (the edges touch at the grey patch
border)." What did you look for in this comparison?
You didn't have to do any printing -- how can you tell from an
unprinted negative what zone the negative will put the print in?
In article <s.d.stokes-09...@42.albuquerque-01-02rs.nm.dial-
access.att.net>,
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.