Are Pentax Spotmatics worth repair
Frank Pittel
they work but need repair as well as cleaning, adjustment, etc. I
brought them to a local camera repair shop and was told that the
spotmatics aren't worth fixing anymore. Is this true??
--
Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
-------------------
f...@deepthought.com
Jim Hand
news:tttiq2d...@corp.supernews.com...
> I have come across a number of Pentax Spotmatics. For the most part
> they work but need repair as well as cleaning, adjustment, etc. I
> brought them to a local camera repair shop and was told that the
> spotmatics aren't worth fixing anymore. Is this true??
In my opinion, NO, this is not true. There are many high quality screwmount
lenses out there, and many of those are single-focal length ones that just
don't seem to exist for modern lens mounts. And, they are generally
inexpensive, except for a few desirable ones. Plus, the fully mechanical
and metallic nature of these cameras means that they can continue to be
repaired long after plastic, electronic ones have bitten the dust.
However, Spotmatics use a mercury battery to control the internal meter, and
many people include the cost of converting the meter to a K-1000 silver
battery system into the cost of repair. This would make a complete CLA and
meter overhaul more than the cost of a new, fully manual body. However, you
would easily make that up on the much cheaper lenses.
In short, if you like manual, metal cameras and single focal length lenses,
a Spotmatic (or any screwmount camera) is a good choice. If you like any
automation or good, modern zoom lenses, your screwmount choices are limited
and you are better off with modern camera bodies.
Just my 2 cents.
Jim
Art Begun
conversion to a new battery was necessary for the
Spotmatic.
"Jim Hand" <JimH...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:3bdece88$1...@oit.umass.edu...
Jim Hand
news:9rmjjl$ve3$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
> Since it uses a bridge circuit I didn't think any
> conversion to a new battery was necessary for the
> Spotmatic.
I don't know the specifics of the internal meter of a Spotmatic, but I do
know that many repair shops will replace the Spotmatic metering system with
the K-1000 metering system (a drop-in fit and still available as a spare
part from Pentax) for a bit over US$100. Whether there is a simpler,
cheaper way to do the same thing I will leave up to people who actually know
about electronics :-)
Jim
Jtown2354
my first pentax was an H-3 - which I still have. Now, I am using MXs. But
the spotmatic was basically upgraded in the K-1000 - improved meter and bayonet
mount lens. The K-1000 has been around for quite some time and are still being
used - a fine, manual camera. I suspect that the spotmatic may not hold value
as a "historical" camera - though, it was the first SLR with TTL metering.
So, in direct answer to your questions, I would be hesitant to put a lot of
money in the spotmatics. ------ Jerry / Idaho
Ron Todd
Art Begun wrote:
>
> Since it uses a bridge circuit I didn't think any
> conversion to a new battery was necessary for the
> Spotmatic.
...
--
*-------------------------------------------------------------*
* Ronald Lee Todd M.B.A., C.P.A. *
* Unemployed for five years, mistake of being an accountant. *
* From the Socialist People's Republic of Kalifornia, *
* the Seventh worst state for business, *
* Ayn Rand was right *
*-------------------------------------------------------------*
Ron Todd
--
Ron Todd
with them, they work the way I like a camera to work. My last CLAs ( I
am sure I over paid @ $125. ) were about the market price for a very
good used one. I believe once you learn to use a tool, it is best not
to change tools. Many, maybe most, prefer to have the newest latest
technology camera in their kit. Some hold on to the same kit forever,
some buy on each model change. Know yourself.
BTW, I also have a ZX-M. For all practical purposes, it is almost the
same as using a Spotmatic. OTOH, it is under warranty and new
replacement parts are available.
Frank Pittel wrote:
>
> I have come across a number of Pentax Spotmatics. For the most part
> they work but need repair as well as cleaning, adjustment, etc. I
> brought them to a local camera repair shop and was told that the
> spotmatics aren't worth fixing anymore. Is this true??
...
chris
it's zinc-air (like a hearing aide battery). Costs about $5 at most camera
shops and I've had no problems with it; I've used two in the last 5 years.
This would eliminate the need to replace the metering system simply to work
around the battery issue.
Art Begun <beg...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:9rmjjl$ve3$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
Frank Pittel
: I have come across a number of Pentax Spotmatics. For the most part
: they work but need repair as well as cleaning, adjustment, etc. I
: brought them to a local camera repair shop and was told that the
: spotmatics aren't worth fixing anymore. Is this true??
I'd like to start by thanking everyone for their response. It appears
from the responses I've gotten so far there is no technical reason that
the cameras can't be restored to useable condition.
I think I also need to add that I got a used spotmatic 2 as my first
SLR about 15 years ago. All I had was a 50mm lens and thought it was a
great camera. I learned a lot about photography and still have and use
it. To an extreme the cost of repairing, cleaning, adjusting, etc isn't
a concern. I just don't want to throw a lot of money at these cameras
and end up with expensive paper weights.
The clerk at the repair center told me that the cameras couldn't be
made servicable due to age and a lack of parts. I can understand some
of the parts problems but that's about it.
Once again thanks to everyone that responded. I will be taking the
cameras to a reputable repair center. (not the one that told me they
were junk )
Frank Pittel
: Depends on how much you like the camera. I have two and I am content
: with them, they work the way I like a camera to work. My last CLAs ( I
: am sure I over paid @ $125. ) were about the market price for a very
: good used one. I believe once you learn to use a tool, it is best not
: to change tools. Many, maybe most, prefer to have the newest latest
: technology camera in their kit. Some hold on to the same kit forever,
: some buy on each model change. Know yourself.
I like the first spotmatic I got so much I jumped at the chance to by
four more. Although I also own a canon A2E I find that I prefer my
spotmatic.
: BTW, I also have a ZX-M. For all practical purposes, it is almost the
: same as using a Spotmatic. OTOH, it is under warranty and new
: replacement parts are available.
: Frank Pittel wrote:
:>
:> I have come across a number of Pentax Spotmatics. For the most part
:> they work but need repair as well as cleaning, adjustment, etc. I
:> brought them to a local camera repair shop and was told that the
:> spotmatics aren't worth fixing anymore. Is this true??
: ...
--
Grant Dixon
consisting of a pair of 55 mm , a 24 mm, 35 mm 85 mm, 135 mm, 200 mm and a
100 mm bellows lenses all Super Takumar. I sold the lot and bought a new do
everything heavily reliable on electronics camera with a standard lens and
two zooms that more than cover the range I had. Do I regret the change?
Not in a New York heart beat! Do I take any better photographs? NO, Ashi
company always made good equipment, but it is a lot easier to take
photographs now! My suggestion is unless you are a collector save you money
and move into the 21st century. My only real regret is the loss of the 85
mm lens it was great and as soon as I get a spare $600 I will be buying a
similar lens.
--
Grant
http://members.home.net/grant.dixon/index.htm
*********************************************************
Creativity is so delicate a flower that praise tends to make it bloom, while
discouragement often nips it in the bud. Any of us will put out more and
better ideas if our efforts are appreciated.
Alexander F. Osborn (1888 - 1966)
*********************************************************
"Frank Pittel" <f...@warlock.deepthought.com> wrote in message
news:tttiq2d...@corp.supernews.com...
ChrisQ
>
> Since it uses a bridge circuit I didn't think any
> conversion to a new battery was necessary for the
> Spotmatic.
>
Even a bridge circuit will show different readings with a higher voltage
because the increased current through each leg of the bridge increases the
out of balance sensitivity. It's not like the old nulling bridge technique
where an increase in supply increases the null sensitivity. Phot
lightmeters depend on an out of balance bridge to get a reading at all.
How much error this adds up to would need to be verified by checking
against
ChrisQ
>
> Since it uses a bridge circuit I didn't think any
> conversion to a new battery was necessary for the
> Spotmatic.
>
Even a bridge circuit will show different readings with a higher voltage
because the increased current through each leg of the bridge increases the
out of balance sensitivity. It's not like the old nulling bridge technique
where an increase in supply only increases the null sensitivity. Bridge
circuit photo lightmeters depend on an out of balance bridge, otherwise
there would be no current flow through the meter at all.
How much error this adds up to would need to be verified by fitting a
silver cell, then comparing with a known good meter against a grey card
somewhere in the middle of the meter range. Bear in mind though that some
old cds meters may be nonlinear and have bad scale factor anyway,
especially at the dark end.
Chris
Ron Todd
difference in the readings. I believe that the Asahi engineers designed
it specifically to be voltage independent. If they didn't, they could
have saved some money by using a simpler circuit.
--
Ron Todd
Frank Pittel wrote:
...
> I like the first spotmatic I got so much I jumped at the chance to by
> four more. Although I also own a canon A2E I find that I prefer my
> spotmatic.
...
Anthony Polson
>
> However, Spotmatics use a mercury battery to control the internal meter, and
> many people include the cost of converting the meter to a K-1000 silver
> battery system into the cost of repair. This would make a complete CLA and
> meter overhaul more than the cost of a new, fully manual body. However, you
> would easily make that up on the much cheaper lenses.
Hi Jim,
I mostly agree with your overall conclusions about Spotmatics, but on
ther metering question you are really off the mark. The Spotmatics have
a bridge circuit that works perfectly with modern alkaline "equivalents"
of the PX625 mercury battery. Even the mercury battery had a voltage
variation that lay outside the parameters set by Asahi; Canon followed
the same route and my Canonet G-III QL17 also has an accurate meter when
used with the PX625A (A = alkaline) thanks to the bridge circuit.
The accuracy of the meters on my two Spotmatic bodies is superb; they
are both within 0.2-0.3 stops of the readings given by my Gossen meter
and normally within + or - 0.1 (1/10) stop. The 30-35 year old
centre-weighted Spotmatic meters are actually *more* accurate than my 10
year old Nikon F4 and one year old F100 meters set to centre-weighted,
which is some achievement.
Coupled with the truly sublime optical performance of the SMC Takumar
lenses, the Spotmatics are easily capable of outperforming many of the
latest and "greatest" Nikon bodies and Nikkor lenses, provided you can
live with the clunky screw mount and the features that seem very basic
when compared to 21st Century entry-level AF SLRs.
--
Best regards,
Anthony Polson
Anthony Polson
> Wein makes a battery that that replaces the old mercury battery; I believe
> it's zinc-air (like a hearing aide battery). Costs about $5 at most camera
> shops and I've had no problems with it; I've used two in the last 5 years.
> This would eliminate the need to replace the metering system simply to work
> around the battery issue.
Chris,
There is no need to do this, none whatsoever. You are trying to solve a
nonexistent problem.
The Spotmatic meter works perfectly with modern PX625A alkaline cells
thanks to its bridge circuit. Wein cells are problematic; they last
only a short time and are much more expensive than the cheap and humble
but completely problem-free PX625A.
Anthony Polson
> I find the meter is a little bit more sensitive, but I do not find a
> difference in the readings. I believe that the Asahi engineers designed
> it specifically to be voltage independent. If they didn't, they could
> have saved some money by using a simpler circuit.
Hi Ron,
I don't know why it works so well with alkalines, but I really don't
care. I have meticulously tested both my Spotmatics' meters against a
Gossen meter after a recent CLA - and they are both more accurate than
any other cameras I have owned.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Anthony Polson
> About 3 years ago I had two Spotmatic. Also had a collection Super Takumar
> consisting of a pair of 55 mm , a 24 mm, 35 mm 85 mm, 135 mm, 200 mm and a
> 100 mm bellows lenses all Super Takumar. I sold the lot and bought a new do
> everything heavily reliable on electronics camera with a standard lens and
> two zooms that more than cover the range I had. Do I regret the change?
> Not in a New York heart beat! Do I take any better photographs? NO, Ashi
> company always made good equipment, but it is a lot easier to take
> photographs now! My suggestion is unless you are a collector save you money
> and move into the 21st century. My only real regret is the loss of the 85
> mm lens it was great and as soon as I get a spare $600 I will be buying a
> similar lens.
Hi Grant,
Many people (like you) prefer automated cameras because they make
photography easier. But to the person who knows technique the automated
features are often of little value, because they tend towards the *easy*
choices (exposure, focusing distance) rather than the *right* ones.
By the *right* ones, I mean the choices that a proficient photographer
will make rather than those that would be made by an automated camera.
ChrisPlatt
Premier Camera Service
393 East North Avenue
Glendale Heights IL 60139
Premier services all major brands but they
specialize in the repair of Pentax cameras.
Rates are surprisingly reasonable.
I have been using them for years and
have been very satisfied with their work.
Christopher Platt
Standard disclaimer: I am in no way connected with Premier blah blah...
CharlesW99
camera I really feel comfortable tinkering with. It has a really nice modular
construction and it is fairly easy to remove the mirror box as a unit and to
work on the curtains.
The Spotmatic (and later, the K1000) were the cameras that were offered in
camera repair courses as practice materials.
The Spotmatic, though, does not use a PX 625 battery, but rather an odd ball PX
400 (going on my rather faulty memory).
Also, the K1000 I think, went on to use the silver oxide button cell.... It
would be really neat if some camera repair geek could list the various cameras
and CDS meters made in the 60's and 70's which can use alkaline batteries with
no inaccuracies.
I was surprised to see the G III Canonette listed as being able to use alkaline
cells with no calibration, as I have a distinct memory that it would read an f
stop "high" with alkalines compared to mercuries.
Charlie
>Subject: Re: Are Pentax Spotmatics worth repair
>From: Anthony Polson acpo...@hotmail.com
>Date: 10/30/2001 4:08 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <33guttgpes2ft04h5...@4ax.com>
Frank Pittel
ChrisPlatt <chris...@aol.com> wrote:
: Contact Eric Hendrickson at:
: Rates are surprisingly reasonable.
: Christopher Platt
--
Grant Dixon
I am well aware of your opinion about automatic cameras and it is held but
some very good and bad photographers. But I never said an automatic camera
I said a camera that could do everything.
While I almost exclusively override the automatic features of my camera let
me play devils advocate for a moment. My "automatic" camera offers three
metering spot, central, and averaging as well as no meter. Five focusing
methods continuous (broad and spot), single (broad and spot), and manual.
Three forms of film advance single, sequential and fast sequential.
Thirteen exposure choices, programmed, "meter matching", seven themes,
aperture priority, shutter priority, and fully manual. Most of the
sophisticated "automatic" cameras on the market today offer proficient
photographer all these and often more choice.
While I don't agree that automatic cameras make the "*easy* choices" they do
make the *safe* choices and statistically speaking (Kodak's not mine) this
is the correct choice 95% of the times. I think it is fair to say that
instead of inhibiting the proficient photographer from making the "*right*
ones" they aid the less that elite from making the *wrong* choice. The
proficient photographer still has tons of options with an "automatic"
camera.
I would like to conclude by saying the person who only knows technique know
only part of photography. While there are countless schools world wide
pumping out wonderful technicians they are producing pitifully few
photographers in my opinion.
Best regards,
Grant
http://members.home.net/grant.dixon/index.htm
*********************************************************
Creativity is so delicate a flower that praise tends to make it bloom, while
discouragement often nips it in the bud. Any of us will put out more and
better ideas if our efforts are appreciated.
Alexander F. Osborn (1888 - 1966)
*********************************************************
"Anthony Polson" <acpo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:dhgutt0ob5no48d37...@4ax.com...
Mark Roberts
> they work but need repair as well as cleaning, adjustment, etc. I
> brought them to a local camera repair shop and was told that the
> spotmatics aren't worth fixing anymore. Is this true??
Depends on what repair is needed, doesn't it? Pretty reliable and
durable cameras from what I hear so most repairs would probably be
worth doing as long as they're not big, major jobs. If the price is
low enough you can buy two broken ones with different problems and
build one good one.
BTW: If you're tempted to have a go yourself you can download a
Spotmatic service manual (PDF file) at
http://www.robertstech.com/pentax.htm
It's free: Unlike the eBay service manual pirates, I don't charge for
material I don't own the copyright to.
Jim Hand
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> I mostly agree with your overall conclusions about Spotmatics, but on
> ther metering question you are really off the mark. The Spotmatics have
> a bridge circuit that works perfectly with modern alkaline "equivalents"
> of the PX625 mercury battery. Even the mercury battery had a voltage
> variation that lay outside the parameters set by Asahi; Canon followed
> the same route and my Canonet G-III QL17 also has an accurate meter when
> used with the PX625A (A = alkaline) thanks to the bridge circuit.
That's very interesting information. I have always avoided mercury-battery
cameras because I didn't want to deal with the hassles. (My current user
screwmount SLRs are a Fujica ST605n and a Praktica LLC, both of which use
alkaline batteries.) But now I hear two cameras that I would like to own
but have avoided (Spotmatic and QL-17) actually work well with modern
batteries. Is there any way to know which mercury battery cameras perform
well with silver or alkaline batteries?
Jim
Ron Todd
the meter as they made two series in the first model): the PX400 is
smaller, a PX 625A, which would probably work, but wont fit.
CharlesW99 wrote:
...
> The Spotmatic, though, does not use a PX 625 battery, but rather an odd ball PX
> 400 (going on my rather faulty memory).
...
Ron Todd
production Spotmatic 1964-73. The original had a version upgrade in
1965, I THINK it can be identified by the meter top meter setting being
3200 instead of 1600. I don't know what they did with the battery
accommodation for the later SP motor drive, SL, Spotmatic II, ES,
SP1000, and on and on.....
CharlesW99 wrote:
>
> I was reading this thread with some interest as the Spotmatic
...
Frank Pittel
: Hi Jim,
That's what I found with my spotmatic. (my first SLR) After bringing it in
for CLA I find that it easily outperforms my canon A2E. It appears to me that
the metering is more accurate and the old screw on Takumar lens have the newer
Canon beat hands down.
Of course it could also mean that I need to bring my canon in for service. :-)
Ahriman
> >
> > However, Spotmatics use a mercury battery to control the internal meter,
and
> > many people include the cost of converting the meter to a K-1000 silver
> > battery system into the cost of repair. This would make a complete CLA
and
> > meter overhaul more than the cost of a new, fully manual body. However,
you
> > would easily make that up on the much cheaper lenses.
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> I mostly agree with your overall conclusions about Spotmatics, but on
> ther metering question you are really off the mark. The Spotmatics have
> a bridge circuit that works perfectly with modern alkaline "equivalents"
> of the PX625 mercury battery. Even the mercury battery had a voltage
> variation that lay outside the parameters set by Asahi; Canon followed
> the same route and my Canonet G-III QL17 also has an accurate meter when
> used with the PX625A (A = alkaline) thanks to the bridge circuit.
Funny, but I just put a battery in my old Praktica MTL-5 for the first time
ever (I've used it with an old Sekonic handheld for ages) and thought I'd
have to tweak my exposures a little because of the alkaline PX625's, but the
first film I tried came out perfectly taking the meter readings as is. I
would have thought an old Praktica would have thrown all sorts of wobblers
at having alkaline cells put in it, but evidently not this one!
Ahriman
ChrisPlatt
Premier Camera Service website:
http://premier-camera.com/
Chris
Frank Pittel
: Frank Pittel <f...@warlock.deepthought.com> wrote in message news:<tttiq2d...@corp.supernews.com>...
:> I have come across a number of Pentax Spotmatics. For the most part
:> they work but need repair as well as cleaning, adjustment, etc. I
:> brought them to a local camera repair shop and was told that the
:> spotmatics aren't worth fixing anymore. Is this true??
: Depends on what repair is needed, doesn't it? Pretty reliable and
: durable cameras from what I hear so most repairs would probably be
: worth doing as long as they're not big, major jobs. If the price is
: low enough you can buy two broken ones with different problems and
: build one good one.
It of course always depends on the actual repair a specific camera requires that
determines whether or not a camera or anything for that matter is worth fixing. What
I was told was that spotmatics as a group aren't worth fixing because they're to old
and as a result the shutter timing and light meter are erratic and nothing could be
done in a cost effective manner to make them usable cameras. The bottom line at that
shop was they wouldn't even look at them.
: BTW: If you're tempted to have a go yourself you can download a
: Spotmatic service manual (PDF file) at
: http://www.robertstech.com/pentax.htm
: It's free: Unlike the eBay service manual pirates, I don't charge for
: material I don't own the copyright to.
Any attempt by me to fix a camera would ensure that the camera would never
work again.
Anthony Polson
Mine certainly do, and it seems many others have the same experience.
But there always dissenting voices, which should also be listened to.
When I bought my first Spotmatic body and the Canonet G-III QL17, I
expected to have to use a hand held meter for slides or the sunny f/11
rule for negatives (this is Northern England after all; "sunny f/16"
works in California or Spain but not here!). But I tried the alkaline
cells and they worked well for slide film.
> Is there any way to know which mercury battery cameras perform
> well with silver or alkaline batteries?
It's always worth asking on here, absorbing all the various conflicting
opinions and then doing your own research. <g>
dor...@attglobal.net
in my Spotmatic F (#675 with a rubber "O" ring). You can also use
alkaline or silver oxide. The only difference I noted with the higher
voltage batteries is that the meter is quicker to react.
Dennis
Art Begun wrote:
>
> Since it uses a bridge circuit I didn't think any
> conversion to a new battery was necessary for the
> Spotmatic.
>
> "Jim Hand" <JimH...@msn.com> wrote in message
> news:3bdece88$1...@oit.umass.edu...
> > "Frank Pittel" <f...@warlock.deepthought.com>
> wrote in message
> > news:tttiq2d...@corp.supernews.com...
> > > I have come across a number of Pentax
> Spotmatics. For the most part
> > > they work but need repair as well as cleaning,
> adjustment, etc. I
> > > brought them to a local camera repair shop and
> was told that the
> > > spotmatics aren't worth fixing anymore. Is
> this true??
> >
> > In my opinion, NO, this is not true. There are
> many high quality screwmount
> > lenses out there, and many of those are
> single-focal length ones that just
> > don't seem to exist for modern lens mounts.
> And, they are generally
> > inexpensive, except for a few desirable ones.
> Plus, the fully mechanical
> > and metallic nature of these cameras means that
> they can continue to be
> > repaired long after plastic, electronic ones
> have bitten the dust.
> >
> > However, Spotmatics use a mercury battery to
> control the internal meter, and
> > many people include the cost of converting the
> meter to a K-1000 silver
> > battery system into the cost of repair. This
> would make a complete CLA and
> > meter overhaul more than the cost of a new,
> fully manual body. However, you
> > would easily make that up on the much cheaper
> lenses.
> >
ChrisQ
>
> I find the meter is a little bit more sensitive, but I do not find a
> difference in the readings. I believe that the Asahi engineers designed
> it specifically to be voltage independent. If they didn't, they could
> have saved some money by using a simpler circuit.
>
What do you mean by more sensitive ?. Sounds like a contradiction in terms.
If it's more sensitive then it must affect the reading other wise how can
you tell it's more sensitive ?.
If it's a bridge circuit (many meter circuits are, not just Spotmatic),
would expect the scale factor to be out with a higher battery voltage.
Little or no error at the low end, increasing towards the high end. In the
past, have found between 1/2 to 1.5 stops error at the high end, depending
on the camera, age and even between the same model. Did some checks on this
some time ago and even with the correct battery, camera meters vary quite a
bit anyway. Most were consistent and tracked fairly well in the mid to high
range, but varied at the low end. All the Nikons seem to track well, but an
Olympus OM2N body was miles out at the low end, yet it takes good shots
where most of the metering is in the midrange of light values. There was
also quite a variation in tracking between cameras with cds meters and
those with photodiodes. You also get an error term from temperature
variations as well, especially with cds meters.
Do electronics for a living and repair / restore old mechanical cameras for
interest. Am always learning, but camera metering seems to be an inexact
science, especially on older models where stuff like cds cells have aged in
terms of their characteristics. Get much more consistent exposure across
the range of light values with later cameras like the FE2 and F2-F3, which
have a little bit more electronics than earlier models and use later, more
stable light sensing. The more consistent results (like, all shots in a
roll ok) would suggest that the metering is more accurate. Of all, the FE2
seems almost uncanny in it's ability to meter accurately every time and
that's never using it in auto mode at all ;-). I guess both the
electronically timed shutter and metering design both contribute to this...
Chris
Ron Walton
Ron Walton
"Ron Todd" <rlt...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:3BE02728...@ix.netcom.com...
McEowen
photography easier. But to the person who knows technique the automated
features are often of little value, because they tend towards the *easy*
choices (exposure, focusing distance) rather than the *right* ones.
By the *right* ones, I mean the choices that a proficient photographer
will make rather than those that would be made by an automated camera. >>
Tony, you're right. It's true what you say. And I wouldn't argue with any of
it. BUT . . . Do I use automatic? You bet, probably 80-90 percent of the time.
I've even using an AF slr now. For the vast majority of situations the camera
is going to pick a good exposure. What the manual/do-it-yourself process gives
you is the experience to know when you shouldn't trust the meter. In those
cases you switch to M . . .
(FWIW, I cut my teeth on a Ricoh Singlex (a lower cost alternative to a
Spotmatic) with a broken meter. I taped the data sheet from the film to the top
of my bag and had the Kodak Data guide for the available light stuff. I still
carry the existing light wheel from the Data Guide in my bag. Many times it
provides a more reliable starting point than a meter.
Anthony Polson
> Anthony Polson wrote:> << Many people (like you) prefer automated cameras
> the automated features are often of little value, because they tend towards
> the *easy* choices (exposure, focusing distance) rather than the *right*
> ones.
> By the *right* ones, I mean the choices that a proficient photographer
> will make rather than those that would be made by an automated camera. >>
>
>
> Tony, you're right. It's true what you say. And I wouldn't argue with any of
> it. BUT . . . Do I use automatic? You bet, probably 80-90 percent of the time.
> I've even using an AF slr now. For the vast majority of situations the camera
> is going to pick a good exposure.
Hi Bob,
I agree 100%. Most of the time, I used aperture priority AE on my
Olympus OM-2 bodies. I took the same approach with my Nikon FE2 and all
the Nikon bodies I have owned since except the FM2N for obvious reasons.
> What the manual/do-it-yourself process gives
> you is the experience to know when you shouldn't trust the meter. In those
> cases you switch to M . . .
Exactly.
But what I find us that, when I've switched to M, I often stay there.
Of course our work differs greatly. In landscape and architectural
photography with 100% slide film, I mostly have the time to optimise the
exposure while I'm waiting for the sun to reach the angle of I am
waiting for. In portraiture (and my rare weddings) with 100% print film
I always meter manually using a hand held incident meter. But if I end
up doing the sports contract I recently won (rather than Plan A,
employing someone to do it for me) it will be AF and AE *all the way*.
> (FWIW, I cut my teeth on a Ricoh Singlex (a lower cost alternative to a
> Spotmatic) with a broken meter. I taped the data sheet from the film to the top
> of my bag and had the Kodak Data guide for the available light stuff. I still
> carry the existing light wheel from the Data Guide in my bag. Many times it
> provides a more reliable starting point than a meter.
True. My starting point was a Russian Zenit B SLR with no built-in
meter, plus the sunny f/11 rule. Sunny f/1.6 doesn't work in damp, dank
and dark England ... But my best efforts *by far* were with my second
SLR, the Olympus OM-1, when used with a Weston Master V meter.
My overall point is that those who start with AF and AE cameras rarely
ever learn technique. If they get a few bad shots they'll ask on here
what went wrong, but they can't even understand the answers they get,
because they just don't understand technique.
However, someone who *has* learnt technique will understand *precisely*
what went wrong and how to avoid it.
I realise that manufacturers want to sell expensive, over-sophisticated
and highly profitable camera bodies to novices. They actively promote
the idea that the top range bodies are good buys for these people.
Of course there *is* some truth to this. These cameras *can* take a
higher proportion of acceptably well focused and exposed shots than most
other SLR cameras.
Skilled marketing means that bodies like the Nikon F5/F100, Canon EOS
1V/EOS 3 and their nearest Minolta and Pentax equivalents can appear to
be the most sophisticated and expensive P&S cameras ever made. However,
when their auto-judgements go wrong, they can go wrong in a *big* way.
Sadly, the novices looking through the lens will have not the faintest
idea why. And they will *never* know, because they mostly know squat
about technique and don't even understand the value of learning it.
They might own a camera, but they are not photographers.
***
As an aside, I've just returned from two weeks in Spain where I shot
landscapes, architectural shots (mainly real estate) and interiors. I
was also asked to work as a substitute fashion photographer when a
German photographer decided not to travel because of security concerns
and gladly accepted.
I was travelling very light and my outfit (F100, 20-35mm and 35-70mm
f/2.8 AF-D Nikkors, an 85mm f/1.8 AF non-D Nikkor plus an SB-24
Speedlight, Manfrotto monopod, Leica table tripod and another full-size
tripod) was stretched to the limit and sometimes beyond.
On my days off I decided to shoot some landscapes and buldings for my
own pleasure. However, I had very little time. So I shot hand held or
with the monopod, using Fuji Sensia II ISO 100 and bracketing with the
built-in meter set to matrix metering and Program.
On getting the slides back (an excellent two-hour service that I would
die for at home) I was astonished at how poorly the F100's meter had
done. Thank goodness I had bracketed widely, because the camera's
choice of exposure was typically 1-2 stops off the mark.
In the end, I got some great shots; I even sold a couple to a local
calendar and postcard publisher and sent some others on my return home
to my main customer here in the UK who says he'll buy a few for travel
brochures and magazines. But I was surprised at how often the F100 got
it wrong, and even more surprised by how far off its choices were.
I suppose that most novices (of all ages, even those with 10+ years of
experience of using auto-everything cameras) using cheap negative film
and having it developed and printed cheaply at a cut-price minilab,
wouldn't even have noticed anything was wrong.
Of course, these are the same guys who, on changing to digital, praise
digital's performance compared with film!
***
A further aside! Bob, both the tripods I took on this trip were
purchased on your recommendation. The Leica table tripod got very
little use, but on the few occasions I used it, nothing else would have
done the job.
The other tripod was a Tiltall. I bought it used on eBay UK at an
attractive price. It arrived just before I travelled, and after a short
trial I took it with me in preference to my Manfrotto 190 (Bogen 3001).
You've mentioned Tiltall several times on here: Good call!
The Tiltall is light and compact, but it extends higher than the
Manfrotto 190 and is *rock steady* at full extension. It came with an
integral 3-way head that works very well. It is much more rigid than my
dreadful Manfrotto 460 magnesium head which even vibrates in the wind!
I sold the Manfrotto yesterday. <g>
Once more Bob, a great recommendation. Thanks again! Now, all I need
is a couple of large Halliburtons and a Leica M outfit ...
McEowen
>
>The Tiltall is light and compact, but it extends higher than the
>Manfrotto 190 and is *rock steady* at full extension. It came with an
>integral 3-way head that works very well. It is much more rigid than my
Yes, the Tiltall is a great tripod and certainly underappreciated in today's
market where everyone is just comparing "features" on a check list. I guess
"sturdy" and "simple" don't carry enough weight these days. I used mine quite a
bit the last couple of days (along with a Monfrotto & ballhead).
Maycop
had the correct exposure w/the needle ctr'd when in reality it was off. Later K
series have the off - no power - position ctr'd.
Don
ChrisQ
>
> Even a bridge circuit in exposure meters IS sensitive towards the
> voltage variation. The reason for this is that it is not a genuine
> (Wenston?) bridge, because the balanced level is lifted up. Otherwise
> you would see the needle in the middle of the scale when the power is
> turned off.
> Peter
Quite correct (Wheatstone bridge ;-) and was the case I was trying to make.
Unless you have voltage regulation for the power, there's really not much
you can do to eliminate the error completely. In practice though, most
metering circuits do a good enough job with few components - the essence of
good industrial design.
What was that old saying about an engineer being able to design product
with $1 of parts, where it takes a fool $100 to do the same job ?...
Chris
Anthony Polson
Hi Bob,
Dare I ask which ballhead?
I now have four and I'm dissatisfied with every one of them. <g>
McEowen
>
>I now have four and I'm dissatisfied with every one of them.
It's the model 3055. I can't say I'm entirely satisfied with it either but it's
not mine, either. It's one of the pool tripods at work. The head isn't
particularly slick but it works . . .
Anthony Polson
Ron Walton
"McEowen" <mce...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20011102100434...@mb-cg.aol.com...
Check out the Bogon 3026. Similar to the 3055 but uses a smaller release
plate. Small enough to leave on each camera and lens with tripod collar at
all times.
Ron Walton
McEowen
>plate. Small enough to leave on each camera and lens with tripod collar
>at
>all times.
I don't object to the large QR plate. We use that head primarily on a 6x6
camera so it's appropriately sized. Besides we have another head that takes the
same plate. My problem is with the head itself. If works and feels like it's
not finished -- like the final machining and polishing wasn't done. Of course,
that's probably why it's as cheap as it is. Well machined ballheads generally
run a couple hundred bucks or more . . . . But like I said, it's adequate. It
works. It's just not very refined.
As for QR plates in general I really don't feel a lot of need for them
generally. If you have a well designed head with a smart attachment screw it
takes almost no time to attach a lens or camera. My personal tripods include
both Leitz Tiltall tripods and Leitz ballheads. Both mount up so easily I've
never saw a real need for a QR. Actually, I think the Bogen quick release plate
is probably more fiddly and maybe even slower . . .
Ron Walton
> That's what I found with my spotmatic. (my first SLR) After bringing it in
> for CLA I find that it easily outperforms my canon A2E. It appears to me
that
> the metering is more accurate and the old screw on Takumar lens have the
newer
> Canon beat hands down.
I used Spotmatic IIa and F cameras in the early to mid 70's and have many
well exposed slides made with them but if my memoery serves the meters were
easily fooled so I had bags of badly exposed slides also.
I now use Canon EOS cameras that include two A2 bodys and I know from
using both type cameras that the Spotmatics can't come close in metering
accuracy of the EOS system cameras. The AE-1s I bought after the Spotmatics
even had the Spotmatics exposure accuracy beat hands down.
I also have reacently bought some Super-Takumar lenses for a project I was
doing. When comparing the 28mm 3.5 Super-Takumar to my 28mm 2.8 EF the S-T
looked good but it did not beat the EF hands down. The S-T was close but no
cigar.
>
> Of course it could also mean that I need to bring my canon in for service.
:-)
This may be the case. There were several sold with an underexposure
problem.
Ron Walton
Ron Todd
aperture. With the mercury or wein, it moves like it is damped, more
fluid like. Since the accuracy of reading is the identical, I find it
an irrelevant difference. It is the only difference I have noted.
ChrisQ wrote:
>
> Ron Todd wrote:
> >
> > I find the meter is a little bit more sensitive, but I do not find a
> > difference in the readings. I believe that the Asahi engineers designed
> > it specifically to be voltage independent. If they didn't, they could
> > have saved some money by using a simpler circuit.
> >
>
> What do you mean by more sensitive ?. Sounds like a contradiction in terms.
> If it's more sensitive then it must affect the reading other wise how can
> you tell it's more sensitive ?.
...