Centon K100 + other K1000 copies?
Toralf Lund
nearly bought it. I ended up not doing it, but I am still tempted. So
does anyone know anything this camera? Apparently, it's a copy of the
Pentax K1000, but does anyone have more details? For instance, is this
just a reverse engineered piece, or next-to-the real thing? What I'm
driving at is that I know it's happened that when one of the serious
camera producers discontinues a model, they have simply sold the entire
production line to some company making "low-cost copies" (or at least,
so I've been told.) So, could this camera be made with the actual
production equipment for the K1000? If not, is this the case for any of
the other K1000 clones?
Note: I'm not considering this camera as my first or only SLR; I already
own a Pentax Z-20, but thought it would be fun to have a fully manual,
really basic camera as well.
- Toralf
Stephen H. Westin
> I came across a "Centon K100" camera in a photo shop the other day,
> and nearly bought it. I ended up not doing it, but I am still
> tempted. So does anyone know anything this camera? Apparently, it's a
> copy of the Pentax K1000, but does anyone have more details? For
> instance, is this just a reverse engineered piece, or next-to-the real
> thing? What I'm driving at is that I know it's happened that when one
> of the serious camera producers discontinues a model, they have simply
> sold the entire production line to some company making "low-cost
> copies" (or at least, so I've been told.)
Hmm. I don't know of any examples except the Soviet postwar production
of various Zeiss gear, and that was certainly not voluntary on Carl
Zeiss's part. More likely is that the original manufacturer shifts
production to somewhere cheaper like China or Thailand; I think
something like this happened to the K1000, but they were still
Pentaxes.
> So, could this camera be
> made with the actual production equipment for the K1000? If not, is
> this the case for any of the other K1000 clones?
<snip>
You can see a scan of the owner's manual at
<http://www.cybcity.com/caminfo/>. It doesn't look like an exact copy
of the K1000 (viewable at
<http://kmp.bdimitrov.de/bodies/K/K1000.html>). Notice that the Pentax
has the frame number window on top of the wind lever, while the Centon
has it on the top surface of the body itself. The lens release buttons
are totally different. There are other differences, but I won't try to
push the comparison between a diagram and a photograph too
far. Perhaps most telling is the vertically-running shutter; the
K1000, based on the Spotmatic series, had a horizontal-travel cloth
shutter.
The Centon is probably like the Ricoh Singlex TLS: a camera designed
with features similar to those of the Pentax Spotmatic, and to use the
same lenses, but with no commonality.
From <http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/opinion/html/fmfe10.htm>:
"Of late, the Nikon FM10 has seen major competition from the
Chinese-made Centon K100, which is, as its name implies, has the
Pentax K-mount and is essentially a modernized polycarbonate-bodied
version of the Pentax K100."
--
-Stephen H. Westin
Any information or opinions in this message are mine: they do not
represent the position of Cornell University or any of its sponsors.
Chris B
"Stephen H. Westin" <westin*nos...@graphics.cornell.edu> wrote in message
news:s0acxwg...@diesel.graphics.cornell.edu...
>
>
> The Centon is probably like the Ricoh Singlex TLS: a camera designed
> with features similar to those of the Pentax Spotmatic, and to use the
> same lenses, but with no commonality.
>
Actually, I think the K100 is made in the same factory as the K1000 was -
it's a slightly updated and cheapened version.
Chris.
Toralf
> Toralf Lund <toralf...@nospam.procaptura.com> writes:
>
>
>>I came across a "Centon K100" camera in a photo shop the other day,
>>and nearly bought it. I ended up not doing it, but I am still
>>tempted. So does anyone know anything this camera? Apparently, it's a
>>copy of the Pentax K1000, but does anyone have more details? For
>>instance, is this just a reverse engineered piece, or next-to-the real
>>thing? What I'm driving at is that I know it's happened that when one
>>of the serious camera producers discontinues a model, they have simply
>>sold the entire production line to some company making "low-cost
>>copies" (or at least, so I've been told.)
>
>
> Hmm. I don't know of any examples except the Soviet postwar production
> of various Zeiss gear, and that was certainly not voluntary on Carl
> Zeiss's part. More likely is that the original manufacturer shifts
> production to somewhere cheaper like China or Thailand; I think
> something like this happened to the K1000, but they were still
> Pentaxes.
typical situation is not that the "serious" companies actually sell or
give away a production line in the sense that it's disassembled and
moved to a new location after the model is discontinued, but rather that
they set it up at another company's site when outsourcing the
production, and then when the model is no longer produced, this company
keeps the equipment, and (often) continues using it under their own brand.
>
>
>>So, could this camera be
>>made with the actual production equipment for the K1000? If not, is
>>this the case for any of the other K1000 clones?
>
>
> <snip>
>
> You can see a scan of the owner's manual at
> <http://www.cybcity.com/caminfo/>. It doesn't look like an exact copy
> of the K1000 (viewable at
> <http://kmp.bdimitrov.de/bodies/K/K1000.html>). Notice that the Pentax
> has the frame number window on top of the wind lever, while the Centon
> has it on the top surface of the body itself. The lens release buttons
> are totally different. There are other differences, but I won't try to
> push the comparison between a diagram and a photograph too
> far. Perhaps most telling is the vertically-running shutter; the
> K1000, based on the Spotmatic series, had a horizontal-travel cloth
> shutter.
>
> The Centon is probably like the Ricoh Singlex TLS: a camera designed
> with features similar to those of the Pentax Spotmatic, and to use the
> same lenses, but with no commonality.
>
> From <http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/opinion/html/fmfe10.htm>:
>
> "Of late, the Nikon FM10 has seen major competition from the
> Chinese-made Centon K100, which is, as its name implies, has the
> Pentax K-mount and is essentially a modernized polycarbonate-bodied
> version of the Pentax K100."
>
Stephen H. Westin
Hmm. But with a different shutter, for starters.
William Graham
"Toralf Lund" <toralf...@nospam.procaptura.com> wrote in message
news:UkMKc.4369$Mq3....@news4.e.nsc.no...
It strikes me that good used K-1000's are so cheap and plentiful, that it's
not very cost effective to buy a questionable clone when you can get the
real thing for so little.........Try KEH or eBay for the real thing.......
C.G.
coat pocket, works just fine and it's rugged enough that you don't need to worry about it.
--
Colm
"Toralf Lund" <toralf...@nospam.procaptura.com> wrote in message
news:UkMKc.4369$Mq3....@news4.e.nsc.no...
: Note: I'm not considering this camera as my first or only SLR; I already
Toralf Lund
compared to other used cameras (although the cost is still not that
high.) Also, I somehow like slightly odd equipment like the Centon K100,
perhaps especially if there is a story behind it along the lines drawn
up earlier...
>
>
Toralf Lund
> I have one for taking places I wouldn't bring an expensive camera. It's small enough to fit in a
> coat pocket, works just fine and it's rugged enough that you don't need to worry about it.
BTW, I've also seen mentioned the K200 and K400. Do you (or anyone else)
happen to know anything about it.
William Graham
collector.....I thought you were out to buy something that you could use
that took the glass you have or would like to have......I stand corrected...
...
Chris B
> "Chris B" <chr...@SPAMdentalserve.net> writes:
>
> > "Stephen H. Westin" <westin*nos...@graphics.cornell.edu> wrote in
message
> > news:s0acxwg...@diesel.graphics.cornell.edu...
> > >
> > >
> > > The Centon is probably like the Ricoh Singlex TLS: a camera designed
> > > with features similar to those of the Pentax Spotmatic, and to use the
> > > same lenses, but with no commonality.
> > >
> >
> > Actually, I think the K100 is made in the same factory as the K1000
was -
> > it's a slightly updated and cheapened version.
>
> Hmm. But with a different shutter, for starters.
Well, you may very well be right. I'm having difficulty finding any proof of
the K-100/K1000 connection, just that I've definately read somewhere and
been told that the K-100 is at least based on the K1000. I was sure it was
built in the same factory and was basically a development of the K1000 which
appeared after it ceased production.
Maybe it's just that their features are so alike, as is the name, that
people just assume that they're the same camera in a different body.
Chris.
Geoffrey S. Mendelson
> Well, you may very well be right. I'm having difficulty finding any proof of
> the K-100/K1000 connection, just that I've definately read somewhere and
> been told that the K-100 is at least based on the K1000. I was sure it was
> built in the same factory and was basically a development of the K1000 which
> appeared after it ceased production.
> Maybe it's just that their features are so alike, as is the name, that
> people just assume that they're the same camera in a different body.
Isn't it just a copy of the k1000 made in (mainland) China? Many products
are copycated these days. The Chinese cameras have become mainstream
items, for example the Seagull Twin Lens reflex cameras.
It may also be made by the Cosina plant. They've done many things with
their SLR body, having sold it in various forms as as an Olympus, two
different Nikons (FM10, FE10) at least one other "well known" brand,
the Voigtlander line of rangefinder cameras, in 42mm screw mount
under their own brand, and an Epson branded digital rangefinder
camera prototype.
I expect that the reason they have not come out with a Canon FD (pre EOS)
mount camera is that the AE1 and AE1-P sold so well that there are millions
sitting on shelves and they will fill any demand for a long time.
Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, C.T.O. GW&T Ltd., Jerusalem Israel
g...@mendelson.com g...@gwandt.com
IL Voice: 972-544-608-069 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Toralf Lund
>>
>>>"Toralf Lund" <toralf...@nospam.procaptura.com> wrote in message
>>>news:UkMKc.4369$Mq3....@news4.e.nsc.no...
>>>
>>>
>>>>I came across a "Centon K100" camera in a photo shop the other day, and
>>>>nearly bought it.
>>>
>>>
>>>It strikes me that good used K-1000's are so cheap and plentiful, that
>
> it's
>
>>>not very cost effective to buy a questionable clone when you can get the
>>>real thing for so little.........Try KEH or eBay for the real
>
> thing.......
>
>>Hmm. It actually seems to me that K-1000s are often somewhat overpriced
>>compared to other used cameras (although the cost is still not that
>>high.) Also, I somehow like slightly odd equipment like the Centon K100,
>>perhaps especially if there is a story behind it along the lines drawn
>>up earlier...
>>
>
> Oh sure.....I didn't understand that you were interested as a
> collector.....I thought you were out to buy something that you could use
> that took the glass you have or would like to have......I stand corrected...
> ...
Actually, I wanted both... But maybe getting something that's both
"interesting" and usable is to much to ask for... Except the K1000 *is*
of course in a sense just that. If I just want usability and value for
money, though, I think a different (used) Pentax model makes more sense.
- Toralf
Toralf Lund
> In article <cdjob2$98c$1...@titan.btinternet.com>, Chris B wrote:
>
>
>>Well, you may very well be right. I'm having difficulty finding any proof of
>>the K-100/K1000 connection, just that I've definately read somewhere and
>>been told that the K-100 is at least based on the K1000. I was sure it was
>>built in the same factory and was basically a development of the K1000 which
>>appeared after it ceased production.
>>Maybe it's just that their features are so alike, as is the name, that
>>people just assume that they're the same camera in a different body.
>
>
> Isn't it just a copy of the k1000 made in (mainland) China? Many products
> are copycated these days.
a lot, the chinse are also often making the real thing for "western"
companies. Actually, I'm not *that* familiar with the camera industry,
but I do know that China is starting to get pretty big on consumer
electronics, including cell-phones etc. And like I said, when the
production for whoever-it-is stops, the product may survive under a
different name.
> The Chinese cameras have become mainstream
> items, for example the Seagull Twin Lens reflex cameras.
>
> It may also be made by the Cosina plant.
Yes. I've seen mentioned a link link between Centon and Cosina - but
that may also be mere speculation.
Also, I've heard from fairly reliable sources that the Centon DF-300,
which is based on the Minolta X-300, is indeed produced with Minolta's
orignal equipment.
Actually, the K100 and DF-300 look rather similar on pictures at least,
so it could be that they are essentially the same camera...
> They've done many things with
> their SLR body, having sold it in various forms as as an Olympus, two
> different Nikons (FM10, FE10) at least one other "well known" brand,
> the Voigtlander line of rangefinder cameras, in 42mm screw mount
> under their own brand, and an Epson branded digital rangefinder
> camera prototype.
Really? Did they make that? I've read a bit about it...
Nick Zentena
> Actually, I wanted both... But maybe getting something that's both
> "interesting" and usable is to much to ask for... Except the K1000 *is*
> of course in a sense just that. If I just want usability and value for
> money, though, I think a different (used) Pentax model makes more sense.
If you wanted a non-auto focus camera to use then the value isn't in the
Pentax line it's in the non-pentax K mounts. For the price of a K1000 you
might get 3 Ricoh XR-Ms. Or if you wanted totally manual a similar number of
the KR-5/10s. The XR-M certainly comes with more features then the K1000 and
I think the KR-10 does to.
Nick
Stephen H. Westin
Well, my choice would be an MX, but that's pricey. An ME Super is a
bit less. Other models don't appeal to me so much (e.g. P3/P30, and
especially the auto-only ME/MV/MG series). Perhaps a KX or K2, with more
content than the K1000, but not as prized?
I don't have experience with the non-Pentax K-mount bodies, but kinda like
the Fujica ST701 and siblings in the screw-mount category.
Chris B
> Well, my choice would be an MX, but that's pricey. An ME Super is a
> bit less. Other models don't appeal to me so much (e.g. P3/P30, and
> especially the auto-only ME/MV/MG series). Perhaps a KX or K2, with more
> content than the K1000, but not as prized?
Odd, isn't it? I have a K2 and I can't think why I'd want to trade down to a
K1000 - plus, K2's are rarer yet the K1000 is still more sought after.
Actually, the MX would be my choice as well. The ME Super is always a solid
choice (if a little down on features) and can be picked up quite cheaply
these days. The P30 is a decent camera, really - it doesn't have the visual
appeal of an older, metal-body camera (frankly, it looks cheap and nasty) -
but it does have DOF preview and very easy-to-use operation. Not sure about
the MV and MG, but the ME isn't that bad as it does provide exposure
compensation of +/- 2 stops - which is the most your average shooter would
need using auto on an average day.
Of course, my top choice would be an LX...
Chris.
William Graham
available on the used market.....A three digit number designation, like 365
or something like that....Several people recommended it.......
William Graham
"William Graham" <we...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:UQzLc.135201$a24.24829@attbi_s03...
I found the email with the other pentax recommendation.....Here it is:
"Ralf R. Radermacher" <foto...@gmx.de> wrote in message
news:1g9aqwz.1u1f3ul13ms5leN%foto...@gmx.de...
> Brian Fairchild <spam...@spam.com> wrote:
>
> > I've got a few Pentax K mount lenses (28mm, 50mm, 35-100mm) sitting
> > around with no body to put them on. I'm looking for suggestions for a
> > decent second hand body to buy for general 'snapshot' use.
>
> One of the most underrated SLR cameras of all times is the Pentax P50.
>
> http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/bodies/P/P5.html
>
> Ralf
KEH has one for sale right now in excellent-plus condition for about
$110........
Toralf Lund
Yes. Maybe I ought to get my hands on one of those. It actually has a
certain
sentimental value to me, as this was probably the camera I wanted the most
when I considered buying an SLR about 15 years ago, but eventually found
that couldn't afford one...
- Toralf
Toralf Lund
> Nick Zentena <zen...@hophead.dyndns.org> writes:
>
>
>>Toralf Lund <toralf...@nospam.procaptura.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Actually, I wanted both... But maybe getting something that's both
>>>"interesting" and usable is to much to ask for... Except the K1000 *is*
>>>of course in a sense just that. If I just want usability and value for
>>>money, though, I think a different (used) Pentax model makes more sense.
>>
>>
>> If you wanted a non-auto focus camera to use then the value isn't in the
>>Pentax line it's in the non-pentax K mounts. For the price of a K1000 you
>>might get 3 Ricoh XR-Ms. Or if you wanted totally manual a similar number of
>>the KR-5/10s. The XR-M certainly comes with more features then the K1000 and
>>I think the KR-10 does to.
>
>
> Well, my choice would be an MX, but that's pricey. An ME Super is a
> bit less.
Just bought one at through a Norwegian net auction for NOK 450, which is
equivalent to 53 euros or 65 US$ - and that's including a Pentax 50mm
1:1.7, a Pentax 70-210 mm zoom and a camera bag. I'm quite pleased with
that. Actually, I think I'm going to sell at least one of the lenses,
and I've seen those going for more individually than what I have to pay
for the whole package, so if I'm lucky, I'll actually make money on the
transaction. Which would mean that this camera body doesn't really
count, so maybe I'll still get one of the other models discussed here ;-)
Deathwalker
sold and distributed by dixons. The centon 100 is definitely bottom 0f the
range. At least go for the 400 which has depth of field preview and
aperture priority.
"Toralf" <toralf-d...@procaptura.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:cdhd0r$rp6$1...@services.kq.no...
Deathwalker
inflated 2nd hand value.
Deathwalker
"Chris B" <chr...@SPAMdentalserve.net> wrote in message
news:cdm5q8$qqj$1...@sparta.btinternet.com...
the k1000 is more sought after as it is 100% manual. There is no automation
at all. That is how the photo tutors like to teach. That is what they
recommend. Therefore every september the demand shoots up for this model.
Other than that it is shite.
Deathwalker
The k200 is currently sold at jessops. The k400 is also sold but has
aperture priority and depth of field preview. Considering the difference in
price is £20 it is worth paying the extra.
TP
>
>cheap and plentiful? as most tutors recommend the k1000 it has a vastly
>inflated 2nd hand value.
What would you call a "vastly inflated" price?
I would consider a used Pentax K1000 in EXC+ condition to be worth at
least as much as two brand new Centon K100 bodies. If you bought
Centon, you would need to buy two to have a reasonable chance of one
working at any particular time.
Maybe you should buy three.
;-)
Deathwalker
"TP" <t...@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:rmu5g0pt9nbjlrq7k...@4ax.com...
> "Deathwalker" <ian-l...@blueyonder.co.uknospam> wrote:
> >
> >cheap and plentiful? as most tutors recommend the k1000 it has a vastly
> >inflated 2nd hand value.
>
>
> What would you call a "vastly inflated" price?
AT one point more than the price of a new one.
> I would consider a used Pentax K1000 in EXC+ condition to be worth at
> least as much as two brand new Centon K100 bodies.
Which is why i suggest the k400
TP
For goodness' sake, the K400 is just junk with more features!
That is still junk.
Matt McGrattan
I picked up a second hand Chinon CS which is an M42 mount manual SLR
for barely more than a tenner.
It has stop down TTL metering, depth of field preview, self-timer
(which locks the mirror up when triggered so can be used for mirror
lock-up), flash sync to 1/125, speeds up to 1/1000 and can meter with
films to 1600 ASA.
I don't know how that compares to the Centon K100 but, other than
having an M42 screw mount rather than bayonet mount it seems rather
higher spec.
[In my case I was specifically looking for an M42 mount camera because
there are so many cheap 2nd hand M42 lenses around...]
If you are looking for a cheap manual SLR it seems to me that going
second hand will get you a higher spec camera for less.
My camera was a little battered but in good working order (shutter
speeds accurate, self-timer and flash sync work fine, meter is
accurate, mirror and viewfinder clean etc.) and I'm sure you could
find something even better from a better brand.
Matt
Bandicoot
news:PsBMc.7249$2f2.74...@news-text.cableinet.net...
>
> the k1000 is more sought after as it is 100% manual. There is no
automation
> at all. That is how the photo tutors like to teach. That is what they
> recommend. Therefore every september the demand shoots up for this model.
> Other than that it is shite.
>
But the better spec'ed KX amd KM, not to mention the splendid MX are also
100% manual, and with the exception of the MX, often cheaper than the K1000.
Peter
Jeremy
"Matt McGrattan" <matthew....@bnc.ox.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:ok68g0t9c1id8kot9...@4ax.com...
Aren't Vivitar and Zenit still making new manual cameras with K-mount? I
would be suspect of an unknown Chinese brand. It seems clear that, for the
price they charge, they cannot set up a proper distributor network for parts
and service (not that Zenit has any service to speak of). In that sense,
the camera is little more than a toy. Perhaps something to experiment with,
but not anything that must be relied upon.
The fact that the original machine tooling may be used in the production of
this new camera really doesn't mean much unless there is a support system in
place, and I do not believe that one will ever exist for this model. At
least the current offerings from Pentax--even their low-end models--come
with meaningful warranties, parts and service.
Chris B
"Bandicoot" <"insert_handle_here"@techemail.com> wrote in message
news:109079458...@nnrp-t71-02.news.clara.net...
Exactly! I never really understood the 'buy a manual only camera'
philosophy. Now, I generally use my camera manually but I don't think I'd
consider owning one. Students entering onto a photography course do so
because they want to learn about photography and how to use a camera - so
long as you've got a camera that can be used manually, I don't see the auto
modes as any sort of disadvantage.
Chris.