B&H verification system sucks
Michael Arkhipov
their new "verification system".
B&H: Is your home phone number listed?
Me: No
B&H: OK, then you must fax us a photocopy of your driver license, issued to
the credit card billing address.
Me: OK, will do
I've faxed 2 (two) copies. In two days (btw, I've ordered air shipment)
nothing has arrived. I called them again
B&H: We did not recive your fax
Me: Oh really? My fax machine says both transmissions were successfull
B&H: Well, maybe you can fax it again?
Me: OK. How do I know that you have received them?
B&H: We'll call you back.
I've faxed 2 (two) copies. Nobody called in 3 hours. I made another call:
B&H: We did not receive your fax
Me: How could it happen?
B&H: We don't know. Probably your fax is broken.
Me: My fax is an expensive shared office fax machine. A lot of people are
sending faxes successfully all day long.
B&H: We don't know. We must verify your credit card. Can we call you at your
home number?
Me: I am not at home. I have to work to earn some money in order to buy
stuff from you.
B&H: Do you mean that nobody is at home now?
Me: Why do you think somebody must be at home all the time?
B&H: Errrh... We must verify that you are not using somebody's other creadit
card
Me: I bought from you several times - my credit card number is in your
database along with my name and address. You are shipping to the billing
address which is also in your database. You can call my back, if you wish.
Is this enough?
B&H: No. Please fax us your driver's license again.
Me: No, thank you. I am not going to waste my time anymore. The amount of
money I am saving by buying from you is less that my hourly pay. Please
cancel the order.
B&H: We are trying to protect you!
Me: I don't need any protection. Good buy.
I've wasted more than an hour total. Later today I've ordered same items
without a problem from Camera World of Oregon and from Adorama. I am not
going to use B&H anymore. I don't think I want to list my home phone number
just because couple of times a year I buy some photo gear.
You've just lost a loyal customer, B&H!
Mike
Albert Briones
concluded today and was entirely different.............
I'm new to the camera mail order scene and based on the comments from this
news group decided to place my first mail order just a few days ago.....
Via telephone I ordered a Tokina 28mm from B&H on Thursday the 15th, late in
the day. The guy was real nice and told me the item was instock and would
leave that day. (He told me they used FedEx Express Saver 3 day) He gave
me my order number which I used to submit to the B&H order tracking email
relay. I checked and within a few hours the auto response told me my order
had been shipped and even gave me the FedEx tracking number and a link to
the FedEx tracking URL! Once I had the FedEx tracking number I waited until
after the weekend passed, tracked my package and just like clockwork, my
lens arrived today on the 3rd business day. (in perfect shape) I was very
pleased with the entire process.
Albert
Michael Arkhipov <mik...@nwlink.dot.com> wrote in message
news:371d...@news.nwlink.com...
Albert Briones
ben grosser
people. The other half are very helpful.
I recently ordered a wireless lapel mic from them. It arrived promptly (as
*most* B&H shipments do) and after a couple days I got a chance to try it
out. Didnt' work at all. Called B&H and they insisted that we had to
return it to them, and that they would return it to the vendor for repair.
Why would I want to get a brand new item that was DOA repaired? They should
replace it, next-day at their expense. Plenty of fighting with the guy got
me nowhere.
Needless to say, after 3 weeks of going to B&H-Vendor-B&H-me, I got my mic
back, with one of the units replaced by the vendor. Problem solved, but
nearly a month after I received the original box.
Moral? Hang up and try a different time of day?
Oh well.
ben
Your Friend
stage because I didn't have the Corporate Phone Bill!!!! to fax to them along
with my license. How many of you have access to your corporate phone bill? And
if I had to wait 3 hours for a call back that they didn't receive the fax I
wouldn't have had the "overnight" shipment. I had two take two hours off from
work to rush home to get the call that confirmed that I had ordered the items!
B&H should REALIZE that 90% of the people who have it shipped to ANOTHER address
is because NO ONE IS HOME during the day to receive it!!!!
Please look at other ways to validate B&H!!!
Thanks Michael for your inputs!
kevin
BandHPhoto
We will certainly take this under consideration.
===============================
regards,
Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video
http://www.bhphotovideo.com
hen...@bhphotovideo.com
BandHPhoto
their new "verification system".>
I am sorry that you found the system daunting. I am sure you understand thought
thnecessity of protecting both the retailer and the customer's sensitive
credit.
You may not be aware that credit card fraud is rampant these days. Since my
wife & I were the victims of something similar I know that the <hour> you
<wasted> is a pittance compared to the more than 40 hours we spent repairing
our credit after overeager sales clerks thoughout the tri-state region either
opened "instant credit" accounts or revived existing but dormant accounts in
our name. The amount stolen in one three-day weekend (even though we notified
the credit card copmpanies less than one hour after learning our credit had
been breached) was sufficient to involve the Secret Service. It was a
nightmare.
If you wish, e-mail the particulars of who you are, or your order number, to me
at hen...@bhphotovideo.com and I will see if I can determine a way to minimize
this for you in the future.
Again, we regrety your inconvenience and dissatisfaction.
Michael Arkhipov
besides the phone number.
1. If somebody has bought from you several times, you could give him a
password. Then you could ask for phone number and a password. Credit card
info should have already been recorded in your database. You have shipped
several times to this address. Why would you want to verify this every time?
2. Why you insisted on home phone? I asked if your operator could call
Microsoft's (that's my employer) business phone and verify that I do work
there and then call me on my business phone and verify that I am there?
3. Why not to verify via e-mail? Customer enters credit card via secure
site, then you send e-mail to the address your have on record. If you don't
receive confirmation in two days, cancel the order. Here the e-mail address
works as a password.
Thanks
Michael
BandHPhoto <bandh...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990421094013...@ng-ba1.aol.com...
> <Please look at other ways to validate B&H!!!>
>
> We will certainly take this under consideration.
Tom Kimbrough
drivers license. I thought about it and decided there were other places I
could buy from. So I called back and told them thanks but no thanks, cancel
my order please. I spent the next couple of days looking through the news
group to find a reputable dealer. I decided on a dealer and called them to
place my order, but my credit card comes back denied. I think that I should
have plenty of credit available to make the purchase...no, no, no. Those
careful credit card commandos at B&H had gone ahead and CHARGED MY CREDIT
CARD even though they said I had to fax them my drivers license before they
could sell me the goods. I had to call B&H to remind them to refund the
charge to my credit card. I then had to wait for another week before the
funds were credited to my card. B&H -- NEVER, NEVER, NEVER. I may be small
fry, but you lost $2000 in sales to me and probably $3000 over the next
year.
Michael Arkhipov <mik...@nwlink.dot.com> wrote in message
news:371d...@news.nwlink.com...
> Recently I've ordered 3 lenses from B&H. After the order they switched me
to
> their new "verification system".
>
A. Server
probably rather be pissed off, there is an alternative explanation.
When B&H takes the order and the credit card number, in order to
obtain an authorization, they have to supply an amount. (not all that
strange, is it?) The bank (VISA, M/C, whoever), when authorizing the
charge, places a sort of "reservation" or "encumberance" on your
account in that amount. If B&H then sends in the paperwork for the
actual transaction, the charge will appear on your statement. If they
do not, in some period (days) it will void and your available credit
will return to limit-actuals. If you are near your limits, this can
be damned inconvenient, but not a plot on the part of B&H to harm you.
As it happens, a few years ago I was in San Fransisco and (tried) to
purchase print in a gallery. They were still manually dialing in the
authorizations and had a very bad line. As I watched, ignorant of the
consequences, the merchant tried about 5 times to complete the
authorization. I finally left, telling them to call me at my hotel
when they had it authorized and I could pick up the print. They
called that evening to tell me that the charge was disallowed. The
next day when I tried to use my credit card for something like meal,
that charge too, was disallowed. I was furious with the issuer (a
Credit Union). On returning home, I when to the nearest office and
ranted and raved. They first showed me that I had plenty of available
credit and could not tell me what was the problem. (apparently this
is not the first thing that occurs to employees of the issuer, either)
Someone (a supervisor) who came to deal with the ranting jerk
finally figured out what happened by doing some form of transaction
audit. At least at that time, there was NO WAY for the merchant to
WITHDRAW the request for authorization. That is, NO WAY to remove the
reserve. I do not know whether this is still the case.
Another surprize might be that when you rent a car or stay in a hotel,
they get an authorization for some hypothetical number that they think
will cover them. That amount is reserved before you ever get to your
room, much less check out. It may be much larger than you suspect.
But, by all means punish B&H in any manner you see fit. That's what
"the marketplace" is all about. Personally, I am kind of fond of a
place where you can call, order a wide variety of merchandise, and
have it reliable show up in 2-3 days. If you read this newsgroup for
any length of time, you will find that outcome is not guaranteed, or
even very likely, with many sellers.
Cheers,
..On Fri, 23 Apr 1999 21:20:29 -0400, "Tom Kimbrough"
BandHPhoto
authorization, they have to supply an amount. (not all that strange, is it?)
The bank (VISA, M/C, whoever), when authorizing the
charge, places a sort of "reservation" or "encumberance" on your account in
that amount.>
Nicely explained. In fact, if you rent a car, using a credit card, some places
place a similar "hold" on your available credit up to the amount they want if
you fail to return the car. It can be in the thousands. They haven't charged
your card & don't have your money, but you can't use it any plaxce else either.
li...@ork.net
> <When B&H takes the order and the credit card number, in order to obtain an
> authorization, they have to supply an amount. (not all that strange, is it?)
> The bank (VISA, M/C, whoever), when authorizing the
> charge, places a sort of "reservation" or "encumberance" on your account in
> that amount.>
> Nicely explained. In fact, if you rent a car, using a credit card, some places
> place a similar "hold" on your available credit up to the amount they want if
> you fail to return the car. It can be in the thousands. They haven't charged
> your card & don't have your money, but you can't use it any plaxce else either.
But you have nowhere authorized the company to charge your card for that
huge amount of money, if in fact the car is not returned.
Tom Kimbrough
The B&H salesperson said "the phone numbers don't match, so I can't sell you
the product ... please fax your DL." I say "thanks but no thanks...cancel
my order."
Is it necessary for B&H (or any vendor) to place a "hold" on credit card
funds, up to the amount they want in order to find out whether or not the
phone numbers match? a.k.a to prevent credit card fraud? It seems they
would verify the credit card first, before placing a "hold" on the funds.
In the end, I ordered my camera equipment through Abbey Camera in
Philidelphia. To date, I've been very impressed. Great service,
competitively priced, plus one day turnaround on shipping at the B&H 3 day
shipping price.
BandHPhoto <bandh...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990424205303...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
> <When B&H takes the order and the credit card number, in order to obtain
an
> authorization, they have to supply an amount. (not all that strange, is
it?)
> The bank (VISA, M/C, whoever), when authorizing the
> charge, places a sort of "reservation" or "encumberance" on your account
in
> that amount.>
>
> Nicely explained. In fact, if you rent a car, using a credit card, some
places
> place a similar "hold" on your available credit up to the amount they want
if
> you fail to return the car. It can be in the thousands. They haven't
charged
> your card & don't have your money, but you can't use it any plaxce else
either.
GivenRandy
>probably rather be pissed off, there is an alternative explanation.
>
>When B&H takes the order and the credit card number, in order to
>obtain an authorization, they have to supply an amount. (not all that
>strange, is it?) The bank (VISA, M/C, whoever), when authorizing the
>charge, places a sort of "reservation" or "encumberance" on your
>account in that amount. If B&H then sends in the paperwork for the
>actual transaction, the charge will appear on your statement. If they
>do not, in some period (days) it will void and your available credit
>will return to limit-actuals. If you are near your limits, this can
>be damned inconvenient, but not a plot on the part of B&H to harm you.
This happens frequently. Several articles have been written about it.
In fact, I think there is a consumer-awareness group just on this topic.
So, it is NOT just B&H doing it. It can be a real pain. I had to wait 45
minutes once to purchase a $2000 audio amplifier because of a similar
problem. I did take the amp home and enjoyed it, but I cannot imagine
waiting on the phone that long (I looked around the store while waiting).
Randy Given
Given...@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/GivenRandy
public key at http://members.aol.com/GivenRandy/pgpkey.asc
GivenRandy
>the product ... please fax your DL." I say "thanks but no thanks...cancel
>my order."
>
>Is it necessary for B&H (or any vendor) to place a "hold" on credit card
>funds, up to the amount they want in order to find out whether or not the
>phone numbers match? a.k.a to prevent credit card fraud? It seems they
>would verify the credit card first, before placing a "hold" on the funds.
B&H did not put a "hold" on your credit card. You might want to
contact your credit card company for more detailed information.
I'm sure B&H did a "pre-authorization", which is done by almost
all retailers. The next step depends on the credit card company,
but most credit card companies (this is NOT an action on B&H's part)
will then hold that pre-auth as "pending" for 7 to 10 days. In other
words, there has been a pre-approval (pre-auth). After the 7 to 10
day wait, the pre-auth drops automatically. As I mentioned in another
post, this is done frequently and many consumers are upset about
it!
A. Server
>BandHPhoto <bandh...@aol.com> wrote:
[...]
>
>> Nicely explained. In fact, if you rent a car, using a credit card, some places
>> place a similar "hold" on your available credit up to the amount they want if
>> you fail to return the car. It can be in the thousands. They haven't charged
>> your card & don't have your money, but you can't use it any plaxce else either.
>
>But you have nowhere authorized the company to charge your card for that
>huge amount of money, if in fact the car is not returned.
I don't know where you are, so the local law may be different, but I
suspect you would be very surprized to find what you have signed away
when renting a car in the U.S., particularly if you "declined" the
"insurance" coverage at usurious rates. There have been several legal
cases in the U.S. over rental companies charging renters for "lost of
use" after an accident. The gist of the cases was that the rental
company was making little or no attempt to put the vehicle back in
service, it was making more money with it sitting in the garage or
junk yard. And yes, their credit cards were being charged, among
other things.
Another way to think about it would be to try to rent a car without a
credit card. You will find out a lot about the reserve charges if it
can be done at all.
Robert Nicholson
> Recently I've ordered 3 lenses from B&H. After the order they switched me to
> their new "verification system".
>
> B&H: Is your home phone number listed?
> Me: No
> B&H: OK, then you must fax us a photocopy of your driver license, issued to
> the credit card billing address.
> Me: OK, will do
Are you serious? I'm not going to deal with them if they insist on this..
>
> I've faxed 2 (two) copies. In two days (btw, I've ordered air shipment)
> nothing has arrived. I called them again
>
> B&H: We did not recive your fax
> Me: Oh really? My fax machine says both transmissions were successfull
> B&H: Well, maybe you can fax it again?
> Me: OK. How do I know that you have received them?
> B&H: We'll call you back.
What are you buying from them? I think it might be time to look elsewhere.
A message needs to be sent to them here. I'm not faxing them squat.
>
> I've faxed 2 (two) copies. Nobody called in 3 hours. I made another call:
>
> B&H: We did not receive your fax
> Me: How could it happen?
> B&H: We don't know. Probably your fax is broken.
> Me: My fax is an expensive shared office fax machine. A lot of people are
> sending faxes successfully all day long.
> B&H: We don't know. We must verify your credit card. Can we call you at your
> home number?
> Me: I am not at home. I have to work to earn some money in order to buy
> stuff from you.
> B&H: Do you mean that nobody is at home now?
> Me: Why do you think somebody must be at home all the time?
Same reason FedEx do.
> B&H: Errrh... We must verify that you are not using somebody's other creadit
> card
What's wrong with the old "billing address" same as shipping address?
> Me: I bought from you several times - my credit card number is in your
> database along with my name and address. You are shipping to the billing
> address which is also in your database. You can call my back, if you wish.
> Is this enough?
> B&H: No. Please fax us your driver's license again.
At this time I usually "Clik"
> Me: No, thank you. I am not going to waste my time anymore. The amount of
> money I am saving by buying from you is less that my hourly pay. Please
> cancel the order.
> B&H: We are trying to protect you!
> Me: I don't need any protection. Good buy.
>
> I've wasted more than an hour total. Later today I've ordered same items
> without a problem from Camera World of Oregon and from Adorama. I am not
> going to use B&H anymore. I don't think I want to list my home phone number
> just because couple of times a year I buy some photo gear.
>
Henry your response on this?
> You've just lost a loyal customer, B&H!
>
I might have to go elsewhere to buy my velvia if they continue on like this.
> Mike
Robert Nicholson
the available credit and not remove same if they don't go ahead with the order.
This is a pet peave of mine. B&H shouldn't be running the card until the
customer has verified themself _otherwise_ who's protected if people are
trying it on with a fraudulent card?
"Tom Kimbrough" <kim...@adelphia.net> writes:
> I went through a similar situation with B&H. They wanted me to fax my
> drivers license. I thought about it and decided there were other places I
> could buy from. So I called back and told them thanks but no thanks, cancel
> my order please. I spent the next couple of days looking through the news
> group to find a reputable dealer. I decided on a dealer and called them to
> place my order, but my credit card comes back denied. I think that I should
> have plenty of credit available to make the purchase...no, no, no. Those
> careful credit card commandos at B&H had gone ahead and CHARGED MY CREDIT
> CARD even though they said I had to fax them my drivers license before they
> could sell me the goods. I had to call B&H to remind them to refund the
> charge to my credit card. I then had to wait for another week before the
> funds were credited to my card. B&H -- NEVER, NEVER, NEVER. I may be small
> fry, but you lost $2000 in sales to me and probably $3000 over the next
> year.
>
> Michael Arkhipov <mik...@nwlink.dot.com> wrote in message
> news:371d...@news.nwlink.com...
> > Recently I've ordered 3 lenses from B&H. After the order they switched me
> to
> > their new "verification system".
> >
> > B&H: Is your home phone number listed?
> > Me: No
> > B&H: OK, then you must fax us a photocopy of your driver license, issued
> to
> > the credit card billing address.
> > Me: OK, will do
> >
> > I've faxed 2 (two) copies. In two days (btw, I've ordered air shipment)
> > nothing has arrived. I called them again
> >
> > B&H: We did not recive your fax
> > Me: Oh really? My fax machine says both transmissions were successfull
> > B&H: Well, maybe you can fax it again?
> > Me: OK. How do I know that you have received them?
> > B&H: We'll call you back.
> >
> > I've faxed 2 (two) copies. Nobody called in 3 hours. I made another call:
> >
> > B&H: We did not receive your fax
> > Me: How could it happen?
> > B&H: We don't know. Probably your fax is broken.
> > Me: My fax is an expensive shared office fax machine. A lot of people are
> > sending faxes successfully all day long.
> > B&H: We don't know. We must verify your credit card. Can we call you at
> your
> > home number?
> > Me: I am not at home. I have to work to earn some money in order to buy
> > stuff from you.
> > B&H: Do you mean that nobody is at home now?
> > Me: Why do you think somebody must be at home all the time?
> > B&H: Errrh... We must verify that you are not using somebody's other
> creadit
> > card
> > Me: I bought from you several times - my credit card number is in your
> > database along with my name and address. You are shipping to the billing
> > address which is also in your database. You can call my back, if you wish.
> > Is this enough?
> > B&H: No. Please fax us your driver's license again.
> > Me: No, thank you. I am not going to waste my time anymore. The amount of
> > money I am saving by buying from you is less that my hourly pay. Please
> > cancel the order.
> > B&H: We are trying to protect you!
> > Me: I don't need any protection. Good buy.
> >
> > I've wasted more than an hour total. Later today I've ordered same items
> > without a problem from Camera World of Oregon and from Adorama. I am not
> > going to use B&H anymore. I don't think I want to list my home phone
> number
> > just because couple of times a year I buy some photo gear.
> >
> > You've just lost a loyal customer, B&H!
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
Robert Nicholson
> That was basically the same trouble they had but I couldn't even get to the fax
> stage because I didn't have the Corporate Phone Bill!!!! to fax to them along
> with my license. How many of you have access to your corporate phone bill? And
> if I had to wait 3 hours for a call back that they didn't receive the fax I
> wouldn't have had the "overnight" shipment. I had two take two hours off from
> work to rush home to get the call that confirmed that I had ordered the items!
>
> B&H should REALIZE that 90% of the people who have it shipped to ANOTHER address
> is because NO ONE IS HOME during the day to receive it!!!!
Damn right... and this because B&H insist that FedEx not leave it with anybody.
>
> Please look at other ways to validate B&H!!!
>
> Thanks Michael for your inputs!
>
> kevin
>
> Michael Arkhipov wrote:
>
Robert Nicholson
....
Kind of reminded me of all the shady Camera mail order places in the NYC area.
I wonder if anybody could expose those guys since a lot of the tactics they
employed were similar.
Note: I'm not in any way suggesting B&H compare to those it's the NYC thing
I'm refering to here.
Wayne Whitman
order/internet order computer companies do exactly the same thing. B&H is
not the only company with this policy.
BandHPhoto
Consider this:
Some pirate gets a copy of your credit card number -- perhaps by rifling your
garbage. He calls us and places an order for second day delivery to your home
address, knowing ('cause he's been scoping out the neighborhood) that no one's
home during the day. Two days later, he drives up, garden implements in hand
and clerans your yard for an hour 'til the FedEx guy pulls up, whereupon he
signs for the two F5s he's ordered, waits 'til the FedEx truck is over the hill
and drives off. No one's the wiser 'til your next bill shows up
Or consider, the same pirate, who calls with your billing data and a ship-to
address he claims is your new job, but is actually his evil lair. We don't
verify the ship-to data, 'cause we wouldn't want to to wait on hold for even a
minute, ship to him, bill to you, and no one's the wiser 'til your next bill
shows up.
While I cannot say that our current system is the best one possible, I can say
that it's far better than none for a plethora of reasons, including:
With mail order, if a customer disputes a charge, the burden of proof is on the
retailer, not on the customer. This is the opposite of conditions with in-store
charges.
The banks which allow us to accept credit cards require that we continually
demonstrate a certain level of prudence -- if we accept too many fraudulent
charges, or too many which incur chargebacks, we endanger our ability to accept
those cards. How'd it be if suddenly there was no more Visa at B&H? AmEx'd be
thrilled, but you mighht not be.
Fraud costs money. If there's too much of it, the retailer's costs escalate.
Then what? It's elementary economics and you already know the reply.
For he umpteenth time, I relate what happened to my family after my wife's
wallet was boosted from a midtowm restaurant one weekday afternoon. It
contained one credit card, her driver's license, and an insurance ID card with
her SS #. We cancelled the c.card in 30 minutes, but with her DL, SS#, and home
address the pirates were able to open 'instant credit' accounts or awaken
dormant existing accounts across the tri-state region and charged in sufficient
quantity that the Secret Service became involved. While our total cost was
minimal, the devastation to our credit and financial history took more than 40
man-hours to repair, and more than a year later, is still not totally resolved.
It would have taken only the most simplistic caution on the part of any one of
the stores in question to halt, and perhaps capture the pirates in question.
We are not unmindful of the inconvenience, but we ARE mindful of the possible
danger to both the retailer and the customer if the retailer fails to take
reasonable precautions. We are also not unresponsive, having within the past 60
days rejected moves to make our verification process more stringent. My COO and
I have discussed this with the manager of Verification, and are continually
looking for ways to make the process less intrusive but no less secure
simultaneously.
Peter A. Simon
verification, but in my case, it probably would prevent me from ordering
from B&H.
1. I am seldom home during the day
2. It is unusual for the address on my driver's licence to match my
actual address.
3. I am more likely than not to be calling from a phone other than my
listed phone.
If I can purchase from CWO, for instance, I would do that rather than
running around faxing this and faxing that for B&H. Nothing personal, you
understand, nor am I anti-verification. I believe B&H's excellent
reputation is well deserved. It's just that I don't need the hassle.
Peter
ThirdTry
BandHPhoto wrote in message
<19990504110845...@ng-fy1.aol.com>...
><Henry your response on this?>
>
>demonstrate a certain level of prudence -- if we accept too many fraudulent
>charges, or too many which incur chargebacks, we endanger our ability to
accept
>those cards. How'd it be if suddenly there was no more Visa at B&H? AmEx'd
be
>thrilled, but you mighht not be.
The curious situation.
Consider B&H's fraud percentage, as observed by their bank as
"unauthorized" chargeback requests. We don't know the B&H
number, but we can sure predict that certain B&H "competitors"
have a number which cannot be less than five times B&H's,
and may well be as high as 25% of all charges submitted.
These "competitors" are the ones who ask for a credit card
number first, charge second, and engage in debates over
what was ordered
last.
Normally, banks don't do business with such merchants. But
some banks do, for some merchants.
What's in it for the bank? Should we follow the money?
TT
Robert Nicholson
don't own a manual fax machine to fax paper. IF people are going to fax stuff
in and their fax machine says that it was sent correctly you cannot have sales
people later saying they didn't receive the fax. I'm pro verification but
only if it doesn't cause delays in purchasing that require me to refax.
In particular, if I'm asked to fax something in and I say ok call me back in
15 minutes if you don't get it. Unfortunately I fully expect that the
verification in place today will cause sales people to simply focus on other
customers instead of working with a customer who's having problems with faxing
stuff in. I wouldn't want to be in a situation where I expected a call back
if you didn't get my fax and I rang back an hour later and learnt that they
didn't receive my fax.
JohnC
CameraWorld isn't much better. I regularly purchase from both. This week
I placed a CWO order for $995 first thing Monday morning. Late tuesday I
sent an email asking for order status. Heard nothing.
Called them on Wednesday afternoon and was told that one $25 item was
out of stock, so they were holding up the order for that. I asked for a
split shipment, they agreed. It would ship right away. Should have it on
Friday.
Thursday evening I get a message on my answering machine just before
they closed asking for verification of my shipping address. Remember, I
order from them regularly. I use the same credit card, the same billing
address, and the same shipping address each time. And past orders have
been for more money. I call them back. They're closed.
I call them Friday morning. They confirm that the address they have is
the one I want it sent to (well, duh!!!!), and that it should ship today
(friday), so I don't have the equipment for the weekend.
I've never had a hassle like this with B&H. I just ordered from CWO this
time because they're closer (I'm in Seattle) and thought I'd get it
delivered faster.
Now to see how many boxes I get from them. Last time I called them to
check on the status of an order they double shipped me the entire order.
I'm back to B&H for everything again, I think.
JohnC
Peter A. Simon wrote:
>
> Henry, your personal story is compelling. I can see the point of
> verification, but in my case, it probably would prevent me from ordering
> from B&H.
>
> 1. I am seldom home during the day
> 2. It is unusual for the address on my driver's licence to match my
> actual address.
> 3. I am more likely than not to be calling from a phone other than my
> listed phone.
>
> If I can purchase from CWO, for instance, I would do that rather than
> running around faxing this and faxing that for B&H. Nothing personal, you
> understand, nor am I anti-verification. I believe B&H's excellent
> reputation is well deserved. It's just that I don't need the hassle.
>
> Peter
> On 4 May 1999, BandHPhoto wrote:
>
> > <Henry your response on this?>
> >
> > Consider this:
> > Some pirate gets a copy of your credit card number -- perhaps by rifling your
> > garbage. He calls us and places an order for second day delivery to your home
> > address, knowing ('cause he's been scoping out the neighborhood) that no one's
> > home during the day. Two days later, he drives up, garden implements in hand
> > and clerans your yard for an hour 'til the FedEx guy pulls up, whereupon he
> > signs for the two F5s he's ordered, waits 'til the FedEx truck is over the hill
> > and drives off. No one's the wiser 'til your next bill shows up
> >
> > Or consider, the same pirate, who calls with your billing data and a ship-to
> > address he claims is your new job, but is actually his evil lair. We don't
> > verify the ship-to data, 'cause we wouldn't want to to wait on hold for even a
> > minute, ship to him, bill to you, and no one's the wiser 'til your next bill
> > shows up.
> >
> > While I cannot say that our current system is the best one possible, I can say
> > that it's far better than none for a plethora of reasons, including:
> >
> > With mail order, if a customer disputes a charge, the burden of proof is on the
> > retailer, not on the customer. This is the opposite of conditions with in-store
> > charges.
> >
> > The banks which allow us to accept credit cards require that we continually
> > demonstrate a certain level of prudence -- if we accept too many fraudulent
> > charges, or too many which incur chargebacks, we endanger our ability to accept
> > those cards. How'd it be if suddenly there was no more Visa at B&H? AmEx'd be
> > thrilled, but you mighht not be.
> >
Matthew Kim
B&H and had no response from their customer service dept.
The box arrived in "ok" shape, but felt light. Upon opening the
box, we found half a body box, with no body in it, half a lens box
with a lens, and half a charger box, with no charger, which by the
way, this camera package does not come with a charger!
I have called their customer service dept 3 times and was assured
a call back within 24 hours. It's been over 2 days now and no call back.
I am be being a bit impatient, but the thought of getting screwed for
over $2800 makes me very upset. If I don't get a call tomorrow from
these people, I'm going to file a dispute with the credit card company
and possibly contacting The U.S. Postal Inspectors for mail order fraud.
This is my first and last time ordering from these people.
Matthew Kim
Michael Arkhipov <mik...@nwlink.dot.com> wrote in message
news:371d...@news.nwlink.com...
Rnatrajan
>box, we found half a body box, with no body in it, half a lens box
This posting is not about B&H's verification system but about missing goods. To
me, it is inconceivable that an efficient organisation would allow of
half-boxes to be packed for shipment. There must be checks and counter-checks,
even if only to prevent EXTRA items from going out? The obvious conclusion
would be theft in transit, except that the poster says the package was in "OK"
condition. The whole matter is serious enough for Henry to come into the
picture and I do hope he will give us a clear and convincing reply to set the
intrigued minds of many readers at rest.
<<<<when you speak the truth,you don't have to remember what you said>>>>
ramsami natrajan
Mark
tale is true, I would think you would be on the damned phone for as long as
it took to resolve the problem. Good lord, be a little proactive if you
think you got screwed.
mlm
Matthew Kim <hkss...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:vKs_2.23066$ny.15...@typhoon-sf.snfc21.pbi.net...
> I recently ordered a Rollei 6001 Pro camera for my Father from
> B&H and had no response from their customer service dept.
>
> The box arrived in "ok" shape, but felt light. Upon opening the
> box, we found half a body box, with no body in it, half a lens box
Matthew Kim
news:hpB_2.1055$Fy5....@newsfeed.slurp.net...
> So why are you bitching to us? What are we supposed to do? If this tall
> tale is true, I would think you would be on the damned phone for as long
as
I wasn't bitching to you, and I did not ask for the group's help, learn how
to read and not be an asshole.
I was simply relaying an experience I had with B&H. Also, to warn people of
what may happen and how unresponsive their customer service is. I surely
wouldn't want this to happen to anyone else.
I think I called enough times to prompt a call back, which they have not.
I've seen people from B&H active on this news group, maybe my posting
will get the ball rolling! I've done my part, it's time for them to be
professional
and take care of the situation.
Matt
Matthew Kim
because
there was half a charger box, which this camera package does not include.
Regards,
Matt
Rnatrajan <rnat...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990513083038...@ng-fb1.aol.com...
> >The box arrived in "ok" shape, but felt light. Upon opening the
> >box, we found half a body box, with no body in it, half a lens box
>
jsinger
Matthew Kim <hkss...@pacbell.net> wrote in article
<UkC_2.23301$ny.15...@typhoon-sf.snfc21.pbi.net>...
Matthew Kim
have been unprofessional and not willing to resolve the problem.
jsinger <jsin...@email.com> wrote in message
news:01be9d6a$e3808ee0$d6276fcf@aw00009...
> You must have been a prick on the phone to them.
So, if one was a prick on the phone, this gives them just cause to
rip the person off? Great, I'm glad you have such a high regard for B&H
Photo.
Matt
Henry Posner
B&H and had no response from their customer service dept.
Upon opening the> box, we found half a body box, with no body in
charger, which by the way, this camera package does not come with
a charger!>
===================
In checking our Customer Service database for this
transaction, I find six entries beginning May
11th. Among them is our verification of the FedEx
shipping invoice indicating by parcel weight that
it left here 100% complete, and our note that
you'd been advised that we were filing a damage
claim with Fedex.
I also find a note that you described the
condition of the outer box as "ceushed."
As soon as FedEx has replied, we should be able to
bring this matter to an amicable conclusion.
Henry Posner/B&H Photo
--
---------------------------------
Henry Posner -- B & H Photo-Video
hen...@bhphotovideo.com
http://www.bhphotovideo.com
Matthew Kim
parts, was a box lid for the charger, which led me to
believe the mix up happened at B&H and not while in
transit.
I just called customer service about 20 mins ago,
and was told nothing had been done yet and someone
would get back to me, I was not told Fedex had been
contacted, you may have my invoice confused with another.
Matt
Henry Posner <70550...@CompuServe.COM> wrote in message
news:eq7IV3Wn#GA....@nih2naab.prod2.compuserve.com...
xa
Matthew Kim wrote in message ...
>The box arrived in "ok" shape, but felt light. Upon opening the
>box, we found half a body box, with no body in it, half a lens box
>with a lens, and half a charger box, with no charger, which by the
>way, this camera package does not come with a charger!
>
>I have called their customer service dept 3 times and was assured
>a call back within 24 hours. It's been over 2 days now and no call back.
Consider it from B&H perspective, in the abstract.
Customer calls saying $2800 camera just ain't there, although
strange packaging is.
Now, the logical possibilities:
1. B&H mistakenly sent empty boxes
2. B&H "sent" real camera, but someone at B&H stole
the camera before it exited B&H (maybe even before the
box was packaged)
3. The camera was stolen during transit.
4. The camera was stolen by the customer.
That's about it.
Now if it were you, what you would do is to investigate.
Strange as it might sound, a GOOD result of this investigation
is that you find that your company mistakenly sent empty
boxes. You can fix that, and you're glad to fix it.
The other possibilities all involve someone having stolen
the camera. You might end up stuck for a stolen
camera, but you're going to investigate a bit further before
you do or say anything.
Give them a bit of a break, two days isn't too long for
a $2800 investigation.
-xa
Msant94111
Your joking right? If i ordered something and it came to me with missing parts
i sure as hell would be calling whomever I ordered the thing from and calling
my CC company to explain what has happened. And if the package came to me
looking like it was never tampered with than I definatly would call my CC
company and withhold the said funds. I have ordered alot of stuff via the
internet but B&H is one of the more primative company's to order from. Such as
ordering online. Not that they are a bad company.
-----------
Remove "nothanks" to reply
Matthew Kim
about the charger box, they delete the sentence about the charger
box, and don't mention anything about the charger box. This has happened
three times now.
To recap:
Items ordered, Rollei 6001 Pro Camera:
1 body
1 lens
1 back
1 w.l. finder
Items in received box:
1 Box lid for body, NO BODY
1 Box lid for lens with lens
1 Box lid for charger, no charger (Note* this camera package does not
include
a charger.)
1 B&H Catalog
1 manual for Body.
<li...@ork.net> wrote in message news:hUK_2.251$9x5....@news.shore.net...
> BandHPhoto <bandh...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > <I just called customer service about 20 mins ago, and was told nothing
had
> > been done yet and someone would get back to me, I was not told Fedex had
been
> > contacted, you may have my invoice confused with another.>
>
> > No, I do not. Whenever a parcel leaves here and the carrier's
documentation and
> > our shipping documentation agree that, based on weight, it left here
complete,
> > we contact the shipper.
>
> Out of curiousity only, what would have been the weight of the package if
> all of the items which are missing had been in there when they were
> shipped?
>
> Also, he's alleged that he has a couple of things that were not to have
> been shipped in this order. Now, unless he's gone out and bought them
> locally, or had them from before, if they had been in the package, that
> would have thrown it off, no?
>
> This is getting interesting.
Read above for contents of box.
Matthew Kim
a little coaxing. They did not get back to me at all until I started
posting to the newsgroup, which goes to show you they don't give
a shit about the customer, but how they look to the newsgroup.
I'm still waiting for a call back from someone, I have only gotten
e-mails from Henry because of the postings, not my calls to customer
service.
Matt
<li...@ork.net> wrote in message news:JRJ_2.246$9x5....@news.shore.net...
> Matthew Kim <hkss...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
> > No, actually I have been very courteous to them, they are the ones that
> > have been unprofessional and not willing to resolve the problem.
>
> > So, if one was a prick on the phone, this gives them just cause to
> > rip the person off? Great, I'm glad you have such a high regard for B&H
> > Photo.
>
> I don't have a "high regard" for B&H Photo, but they appear to be better
> than any other camera store I've ever seen. Now, I *don't* know *you* and
> so if it comes down to their credibility, or yours, I'm afraid you don't
> want to know how this particular conflict will be resolved....
>
> I suspect that there are other facts here, which are patiently waiting
> their turn in line to come out. Perhaps a little coaxing is needed.
li...@ork.net
BandHPhoto
Spell checker busted? :-)
What makes us one of the more primitive companies, anyway?
BandHPhoto
been done yet and someone would get back to me, I was not told Fedex had been
contacted, you may have my invoice confused with another.>
No, I do not. Whenever a parcel leaves here and the carrier's documentation and
our shipping documentation agree that, based on weight, it left here complete,
we contact the shipper.
Msant94111
>
>Spell checker busted? :-)
>What makes us one of the more primitive companies, anyway?
Sorry primative. I have never ordered from you guys, but I have ordered alot on
the net. When someone needs to fax a copy of thier CC card or DL to verify the
purchase, that I consider is primative. I have ordered alot on the net. But I
have yet had to fax a copy of my cc or dl to any of these other merchants. And
some of these purchases have been in the 1000's of $$$'s. I understand that you
must combat fraud. But I don't get online to order something than have to fax
something else to make sure that order is filled. Nothing against you
company.:-)
li...@ork.net
> <B&H is one of the more primative company's to order from.>
> Spell checker busted? :-)
> What makes us one of the more primitive companies, anyway?
You shokl without shtenders.
li...@ork.net
> <I just called customer service about 20 mins ago, and was told nothing had
> been done yet and someone would get back to me, I was not told Fedex had been
> contacted, you may have my invoice confused with another.>
> No, I do not. Whenever a parcel leaves here and the carrier's documentation and
> our shipping documentation agree that, based on weight, it left here complete,
> we contact the shipper.
Out of curiousity only, what would have been the weight of the package if
Jrktigger
last year and the only customer verification I went through was a return phone
call from someone on a Sunday asking me a couple of polite questions. BTW,
everything showed up on my porch in great condition, however, I wish it was
better explained to me that it would be left at my door. I live in a not so
great neighborhood, I was surprised that it was still on the porch when I came
home from work at 11 PM. I hope you get your problem resolved, I am happy with
the service I have gotten from B&H. Of course, I haven't ordered from any other
photo biz on the net, but after about 3 months of reading posts from rec.photo
NG's, the overwhelming opinion was that they were the best to do biz with. My
guess is that your experience was an isolated f%$@ up, it happens, and if I
spent as much as you have and got what you did, I would be very hard to
placate. Henry, I assume you are doing what you can to see that this customer
recieves satisfaction. I gather that you are concerned with the image you
project on the web, your reputation is very good, I am confident that this
issue will be resolved, and hopefully, the original poster will be pleased with
the outcome.
Rosedco
UPS and Fed X - never had a problem of verification with any mail order house
including B& H
ED Terry
BandHPhoto
on
the net. When someone needs to fax a copy of thier CC card or DL to verify the
purchase, that I consider is primative.>
That has NOTHING to do with the sophistication or lack thereof of our website.
A customer whose order triggers the Verification process would do so whether
ordering online, via phone, fax or snailmail.
And, it's spelled "primitive." <g>
Rnatrajan
>e-mails from Henry because of the postings, not my calls to customer
>service.
If one of the top bosses (in this case the Director of Sales) is already
dealing with your problem and is in touch with you (by your own admission),
what are you then waiting to hear from Customer Service for? Are they going to
tell you something different? In any case, as we have seen from previous
postings in this thread, the matter seems to be out of B&H's hands and it needs
Fedex to respond before B&H can get back to you. Why don't you give it a day or
two before acting like you have a jalapeno up your whatnot? The other thing is,
was your package automatically insured by B&H? I think for a value of $2800,
they would have done so and included the charge of $0.50 per $100 in your S&H.
Have you checked this out? I think your main concern now should be to get your
money back and this appears almost certain to happen. Keeping calm and acting
dignified would take you farther in this direction.
<<<<you don't have to be a dog to know what a dog-biscuit is>>>>>>Ramsami
Natrajan
Rnatrajan
Henry, oh Henry! On top of your multifarious duties - keeping salesmen in line,
looking after your customers, worrying about your sales targets, sorting out
Fedex mishandling, replying to posters who first seem to equip themselves with
a jalapeno in their rear ends, you now have to take on the misspellers and
grammar-murderers. You might well find this to be the most onerous job of the
lot! Doesn't "primative" derive from the primates - those 4-legged,
long-tailed, mischievous denizens of the African Congo? Perhaps, the poster DID
want to call you a monkey, in the first place! Good luck, Henry, I am watching
you with a great deal of sympathy - and goodwill! Ramsami Natrajan
Matthew Kim
this point. Hopefully, all parties involved will be satisfied.
My apologies to Henry and to the Newsgroup.
Matt
Rnatrajan <rnat...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990514082605...@ng62.aol.com...
BandHPhoto
all of the items which are missing had been in there when they were shipped?>
More than twelve pounds.
<Also, he's alleged that he has a couple of things that were not to have been
shipped in this order. Now, unless he's gone out and bought them locally, or
had them from before, if they had been in the package, that would have thrown
it off, no?>
He claims there was a charger (or a box therefrom) and further alleges that the
charger's not included. He's wrong. I personally inspected remaining inventory
and each has a charger, among the items within.
BandHPhoto
the charger box, they delete the sentence about the charger
box, and don't mention anything about the charger box. This has happened three
times now.>
Not for nuttin', but I checked remaining inventory on this item and the charger
_IS_ included. Happier? <I find it very interesting that> you didn't know it
was going to be there. Have a nice day.
Matthew Kim
in your personal E-mail to me, and then say something different to the
newsgroup.
What gives? Like I said before, I've talked to two different sales people
and
looked at 3 months of B&H ads including the latest ad... no where does the
ad
state, or sales people say there is a charger included.
The more I correspond with you people, the more disorganization I see.
You had better keep an eye on your shipping department, because at this
point
I'm thinking it's either a packaging mistake or theft on their part.
Matt
BandHPhoto <bandh...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990514112309...@ng-cb1.aol.com...
> <Out of curiousity only, what would have been the weight of the package if
> all of the items which are missing had been in there when they were
shipped?>
>
> More than twelve pounds.
>
> <Also, he's alleged that he has a couple of things that were not to have
been
> shipped in this order. Now, unless he's gone out and bought them locally,
or
> had them from before, if they had been in the package, that would have
thrown
> it off, no?>
>
> He claims there was a charger (or a box therefrom) and further alleges
that the
> charger's not included. He's wrong. I personally inspected remaining
inventory
> and each has a charger, among the items within.
>
>
BandHPhoto
in your personal E-mail to me, and then say something different to the
newsgroup.>
I believe not. Whatever other employees of ours may have told you, I personally
opened them and there's a charger, a body, a lens, and a back, each in an
individual box. the carton als contains, unboxed, one battery and a strap. Each
is in a separate sealed plastic sleeve. I believe my e-mail and posts have been
consistent. I did not address the issue of the charger UNTIL I had the
opportunity to see for myself what was what.
Whatever . . . we have generated a claim with FedEx and engaged our insurance
company. As soon as they acknowledge the situation, replacement items wil be
shipped. It is our intention, as always to honour this obligation.
<You had better keep an eye on your shipping department, because at this point
I'm thinking it's either a packaging mistake or theft on their part.>
We keep an eye on everyone. It's prudent. I can't even enter the basement
warehouse without signing in and out and being admitted by security. At the
exit I pass though an airport-style metal detector and then pass the same
security guard who admitted me. If we exercise this level of security for the
Director of Sales and Training, imagine what the hourly guys endure.
li...@ork.net
> That's strange, I ordered about 1700.00 dollars worth of merchandise from B&H
> last year and the only customer verification I went through was a return phone
> call from someone on a Sunday asking me a couple of polite questions. BTW,
> everything showed up on my porch in great condition, however, I wish it was
> better explained to me that it would be left at my door. I live in a not so
> great neighborhood, I was surprised that it was still on the porch when I came
> home from work at 11 PM.
Who would have been ultimately responsible if it wasn't there?
li...@ork.net
> <You had better keep an eye on your shipping department, because at this point
> I'm thinking it's either a packaging mistake or theft on their part.>
> We keep an eye on everyone. It's prudent. I can't even enter the basement
> warehouse without signing in and out and being admitted by security. At the
> exit I pass though an airport-style metal detector and then pass the same
> security guard who admitted me. If we exercise this level of security for the
> Director of Sales and Training, imagine what the hourly guys endure.
This *would* explain why they don't feel like hanging around any longer
than they have to. :)
BTW, Henry, do something about your phone system. Udring peak hours, the
following happens:
1) Spend 30 seconds hitting keys.
2) Be told that all salespersons are busy, and I will get the next one.
3) Wait a few minutes
4) Be told that no salespersons are available, and i will now be switched
to the supervisor.
5) Get switched to a busy signal.
Not very friendly.
BandHPhoto
Thank you for your input. I will show this to the "powers that be" for the
phones on Monday.
evol...@gmail.com
> <Recently I've ordered 3 lenses from B&H. After the order they switched me to
> their new "verification system".>
>
> I am sorry that you found the system daunting. I am sure you understand thought
> thnecessity of protecting both the retailer and the customer's sensitive
> credit.
>
> You may not be aware that credit card fraud is rampant these days. Since my
> wife & I were the victims of something similar I know that the <hour> you
> <wasted> is a pittance compared to the more than 40 hours we spent repairing
> our credit after overeager sales clerks thoughout the tri-state region either
> opened "instant credit" accounts or revived existing but dormant accounts in
> our name. The amount stolen in one three-day weekend (even though we notified
> the credit card copmpanies less than one hour after learning our credit had
> been breached) was sufficient to involve the Secret Service. It was a
> nightmare.
>
> If you wish, e-mail the particulars of who you are, or your order number, to me
> at hen...@bhphotovideo.com and I will see if I can determine a way to minimize
> this for you in the future.
>
> Again, we regrety your inconvenience and dissatisfaction.
> regards,
> Henry Posner/B&H Photo-Video
> http://www.bhphotovideo.com
> hen...@bhphotovideo.com
I have ordered over 1,000 (easily) products online in my lifetime (many very large amounts) and never ONCE have I had to "verify".
So you are saying all these thousands of other companies don't care about safety? Buying on Amazon isn't safe?
zeki...@gmail.com
I bought a Sony camera on Sunday, received an email on Monday morning saying I need to send them additional information to confirm my identity.
Monday I send them copy of my id, my linkedin profile, copy of my previous online order from them and an email from my work email so they can confirm my identity that is Linked to a work domain. I dont get any response back.
Tuesday I reach out to them again asking if everything is fine and if they are processing my request. No response.
Wednesday I started to get worried since my credit card is charged. At this point they charged my card, they hold my order hostage and they are ignoring my emails. So I started emailing different verification department emails as well as the customer service asking them why they are ignoring my emails even though they charged my card. Still no response.
Thursday, at this point I am very worried since my card is charged and I am being bluntly and boldly ignored. I go to forums to see if others are going through the same horror story. I quickly realize this how their verification department operates and that its hopeless trying to contact them or get your order to be processed. Luckily I see that someone wrote they just called the customer service and got a refund. I immediately took a deep breath, called the customer service and cancelled the order without explaining anything. I was the happiest person in the word. The relief I got when I was able to cancel my order was indescribable.
P.S: I have escalated the issue to a guy called Henry who was the head of verification department and got a short answer back saying he notified the verification department. Up until now, weeks later I got 0 responses from 5+ emails I sent to both verification and customer service departments.
This was all happening because the billing address and the shipping address was not the same.
1-) B&H Photo, if you think a transaction is suspicious, DO NOT CHARGE that card and approve the order.
2-) If you DO charge the card and hold the clients order hostage thinking its suspicious and DO label customers as potential fraudsters and identity thieves at least look at the info they are sending you and try to resolve the issue. YOU HAVE THEIR MONEY AND THE PRODUCT. DO NOT IGNORE THEM.
3-) If you are going to charge their card, hold the customers order hostage, and ignore their communications 100%, that makes you a fraudster. That makes you a thief. You are the suspicious part in this equation.
NOW THINK ABOUT THIS FOR A SECOND. B&H photo charges your card, doesn't ship the product, says we think its suspicious, ignores all your communication efforts and keeps your money as well as the product. Who is the thief and the fraudster here? How is this professional or ethical in any way??
I have been shopping online for over 15 years and I have had bad experiences like late packages, lost packages etc. But I have never had an online experience at this level. This was down right a hostile and a scary experience. They took my money, accused me of identity theft, ignored the documentation I sent them, ignored my emails and left me wasting hours trying to figure out how to get my money back or the product shipped. Left me hanging like that. Knowing that they have your money and they are knowing ignoring all your emails is a scary feeling.
I have never been happier to be able to cancel an order since I seriously thought they just stole my money and that this is how they operate.
I could have bought the same product from amazon, use the same card, same shipping and billing address and get the product next day. (which I did) Instead I had to deal with B&H photo and their customer service / verification department that downright ignores any and all emails they receive even though you are a paying customer and that they are holding your order hostage.
I have purchased from them in the past without issues, thats why I trusted them. Just because you purchased from them in the past doesn't mean you are safe with B&H photo. This can happen to anyone and will happen looking at the forums. This is an early warning for those new to B&H photo and wondering if its a trust-able company. DO NOT BUY from B&H photo. I cannot tell you in words how frustrated and worried I was with my purchase. To a point that after 3 business days I couldn't focus at work and all I was thinking was if I could at least get my money back.
I have never seen anything like this in 15 years of online shopping. Why would anyone buy anything from a company in 2020 that treats its paying customers like a piece of garbage? They dont deserve your business.
nospam
>
> I bought a Sony camera on Sunday, received an email on Monday morning saying
> I need to send them additional information to confirm my identity.
>
> Monday I send them copy of my id, my linkedin profile, copy of my previous
> online order from them and an email from my work email so they can confirm my
> identity that is Linked to a work domain. I dont get any response back.
>
> Tuesday I reach out to them again asking if everything is fine and if they
> are processing my request. No response.
>
> Wednesday I started to get worried since my credit card is charged. At this
> point they charged my card,
> NOW THINK ABOUT THIS FOR A SECOND. B&H photo charges your card, doesn't ship
> the product, says we think its suspicious, ignores all your communication
> efforts and keeps your money as well as the product. Who is the thief and the
> fraudster here? How is this professional or ethical in any way??
you used a credit card, likely a new card not previously used with b&h
and one with a mismatched billing & shipping address, along with a new
email address to b&h and possibly other factors, which triggered a
fraud alert.
they requested additional information, which you provided. apparently
they were satisfied since they *processed* *the* *order* by charging
your card, yet you continued to harass them.
b&h was no doubt thrilled to cancel your order and unleash you on one
of their competitors.
> This was all happening because the billing address and the shipping address
> was not the same.
using a new email address, likely one that has a higher incidence of
fraud (e.g., yahoo).
next time, don't do that.
zeki...@gmail.com
The fact that B&H has to hire whole online reputation management team to get out there and try to discredit negative comments says a lot about the type of business they run. Imagine that for a second. Just like Monsanto they have people working to save their messed up online reputation by attacking and try to discredit customer comments.
My note is for the management. If you guys are reading this, instead of pouring money on these reputation management teams to discredit comments, and use these old and dirty PR tactics politicians and evil corporations use fix your broken online verification / customer service process first and switch to a customer first approach like all the other new age eCommerce businesses.
On one hand you have a customer service/verification department that ignores all emails of paying clients even though they charge your card and simply hold your order hostage AND on the other hand you have B&H online reputation management team spreading misinformation like ---> "apparently
your card, yet you continued to harass them."
P.S: The fact that you attack back on dissatisfied customers, trying to blame them for your incompetence instead of trying to fix the broken parts of your business encourages me to go out there and share my experiences on other blogs. So that the world knows who you really are.
You can write all you want here trying to save the terrible online reputation you guys have interms of customer service and verification department. Instead of listening to clients and fix broken parts of your business you choose to use retaliation and discrediting tactics. This alone tells the world what kind of business you run here. And for those reading these comments, just to summarize, imagine a company who charges your card, then accuses you of being a fraudster and holds your order hostage, ignores the documentation you sent and then ignores all your emails completely leaving you hanging and wondering what the hell is going on to a point where you cancel the order and then when you leave a negative comment replies back saying you "continued to harasses them". I will leave the judgement to you and leave it at that.
Now just compare this to other eCommerce businesses customer services and how they work above and beyond for customer satisfaction. WOULD YOU NOW CONTINUE BUYING FROM B&H???
nospam
> > > I bought a Sony camera on Sunday, received an email on Monday morning
> > > saying
> > > I need to send them additional information to confirm my identity.
> > >
> > > Monday I send them copy of my id, my linkedin profile, copy of my previous
> > > online order from them and an email from my work email so they can
> > > confirm my
> > > identity that is Linked to a work domain. I dont get any response back.
> > >
> > > Tuesday I reach out to them again asking if everything is fine and if they
> > > are processing my request. No response.
> > >
> > > Wednesday I started to get worried since my credit card is charged. At
> > > this
> > > point they charged my card,
> >
> > your card being charged is your response that the order was approved.
> >
>
> comments, just to summarize, imagine a company who charges your card, then
> accuses you of being a fraudster and holds your order hostage, ignores the
> documentation you sent and then ignores all your emails completely leaving
> you hanging and wondering what the hell is going on to a point where you
> cancel the order and then when you leave a negative comment replies back
> saying you "continued to harasses them". I will leave the judgement to you
> and leave it at that.
first you said you placed an order, which happened to trigger a fraud
alert because of mismatched addresses (and likely other factors), so
b&h requested additional info, which you provided. they reviewed it,
accepted its validity and then charged your card.
you've now changed your story to you placed an order, then they charged
your card but refused to complete the order until you provided
additional info and also cut off communication.
both can't be true, which means you are trolling.
you could have also checked the order status at any time, without
needing to email or call.
>
> Now just compare this to other eCommerce businesses customer services
> and how they work above and beyond for customer satisfaction. WOULD YOU
> NOW CONTINUE BUYING FROM B&H???
around since before there was ecommerce.
nothing is perfect and out of millions of orders, there will be a few
people who encounter problems.
zeki...@gmail.com
None of your attacks will change the truth that B&H verification department and the customer service sucks. None of your accusations changes the fact that customers are bluntly ignored 100% by the verification department and left hanging. And that B&H simply doesn't care about customer satisfaction. You call me a liar all you want. You are paid to do what you do trolling dissatisfied customers so I don't take this personal at all. You don't have any answers to provide really about all these mess-ups so you just blame the customer and try to discredit them, try to get on top.
These are just pathetic attempts to change the conversation and to outwit the accusers by blaming them instead. Disgusting PR tactics.
You are just doing your job. I have seen a bunch of you following the same PR playbook trying to discredit comments calling them liars.You just know what is happening as well as I do. So I wont even argue with you.
For thread visitors, just check other forums and you will see many similar cases and similar B&H reputation management guys following the same tactics. Just Google "B&H verification department" and see all the horror stories yourself. This is the B&H DNA.
--- Just leaving a comment for the readers, these guys like "nospam" represents B&H, see their approach to dissatisfied customers? Now how could you expect a company with this mindset to offer you any customer service? This will be the tone you will face when they charge your card, not ship the product and ignore your emails. You will be blamed and called a lair, a fraudster, will be accused of harnessing them when you email them asking for the status of your order. These comments you are reading are who B&H is. This is what they stand for. Very classy isn't it? Just ending it quoting nospam: "absolutely. b&h is one of the most reputable companies". Well, no doubt about it, I can tell you are the most reputable company just by looking at how you handle customers.---
Sad really, how hard these guys try to shift the blame to customers. They are just showing their true colors at the end of the day really.
Chuck
wrote:
a major university and only had one problem they didn't satisfy. We
bought a Presonus mixer that had perfect packaging. A side panel was
damaged; probably at the factory. B&H didn't supply us with a new
piece.
zeki...@gmail.com
When your order goes through there are no problems. Problems start when you end up in the hands of the verification department which ignore you completely and doesn't process your order. Thats when the frustration kicks in.
Looking at other forums and Googling B&H verification department I can clearly see that this is not a one time / exception case. This is how they operate. Its a flawed and inefficient department. It is very clear that verification department doesn't work and is not effective. Maybe this is what they want, they don't want to deal with orders they see suspicious and by ignoring them they are hoping the buyer cancels the order and goes to shop somewhere else so that they dont end up being responsibel if anything goes wrong...
If my order didn't end up in that department I am sure I would get it just fine and continue shopping with them. Its just that one terrible experience PLUS their reputation management teams online attitudes and retaliation strategies pushed me over the edge....
I dont think they are aware that with their attitudes they are creating lifetime enemies that will carry all their horror stories to forums. I don't normally comment online, my experience was so bad that I took the extra time to go online and spread the experience.
I see the verification department and the online reputation team as a gangrene that will eventually destroy the reputation of B&H if B&H doesn't get rid of it and whoever is the decision maker / shot caller in these contagious old school disinformation and blame the customer PR tactics. We are in 2020 and customers are not stupid. These irresponsible decisions of theirs will eventually get back to hunt them...
nospam
some are.
> These irresponsible decisions
> of theirs will eventually get back to hunt them...
something right, and given their size, something very, very right.
nothing is perfect and there is the occasional problem, no matter what
company.
zeki...@gmail.com
> In article <46a06a65-3380-4d2d...@googlegroups.com>,
> <zeki...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > We are in 2020 and customers are not stupid.
>
> some are.
> > These irresponsible decisions
> > of theirs will eventually get back to hunt them...
>
> b&h has been in business for ~50 years, so they're obviously doing
> something right, and given their size, something very, very right.
>
> nothing is perfect and there is the occasional problem, no matter what
> company.