Mail order houses. Those AAA bastards!
Sherril & Bill Erfurth
>>him that I did not know because I was just starting to find prices.
The
>>bastard refused to give me the pricing information and eventually
ended
>>up hanging up on me! What kind of service is this?! Whatever
happened
>>to corteous service America is so well known for!? Are people
actually
>>putting up with this kind of bull shit? If not, what's the secret.
As
>>one who is getting started in photography, it is very discouraging to
>>encounter this kind of behavior, specially from a company who is
supposed
>>to be providing a service to their customers!
>>
>>If they were affraid that I was going to take my business elsewhere
>
>By the way, if I had gotten that kind of treatment from AAA, I would
>just keep on calling back on their 800 number until I got an answer.
>Then I would have their ad in front of me and call back for every
>single item that showed 'CALL' in the price column. Then I might call
>back to double check prices. It's their dime and will tie up their
>'valuable' sales staff. Talk REAL slow with a Forrest Gump-like
voice.
>
>Rich
>
=====================================================================
Hi Rich,
I heard a story about the guy who got screwed out of a couple hundred
dollars by a company with an 800 number (it was not the company we are
talking about here) anyhow, this guy posted their 800 number on
bulletin boards all over the country as a FREE DIAL A JOKE number.
From what I understand, the guy never got him money back, but he did
get revenge.
Bill
Roberto Puon
Thanks for all your responses. Now I know better. I've received some
very favorable comments about Calumet, Camera World of Oregon, and B&H.
Thanks for your help.
Roberto
---------------+----------------------------------------+---------------------
Roberto Puon | An eye for an eye.... | pu...@gtlug.org
MSEE | And the whole world will become blind. | pu...@traveller.com
Huntsville, AL | - M. Gandhi - |
---------------+----------------------------------------+---------------------
Visit my WWW home page at http://www.gtlug.org/~puon
Paul S.
>
> Ok. What is it with mail order houses (specifically AAA Camera
> Exchange)!! Have they forgotten that it is their customers who pay their
> bills? I swear, I was very rudely treated by AAA Camera Exchange when
> requesting pricing information on an SB-27 flash. After the salespig
> demanded that I tell him how much wanted to pay for the flash, I told
> him that I did not know because I was just starting to find prices. The
> bastard refused to give me the pricing information and eventually ended
> up hanging up on me! What kind of service is this?! Whatever happened
> to corteous service America is so well known for!? Are people actually
> putting up with this kind of bull shit? If not, what's the secret. As
> one who is getting started in photography, it is very discouraging to
> encounter this kind of behavior, specially from a company who is supposed
> to be providing a service to their customers!
>
> they told me the price, with the treatment I received, I will certainly
> take my business elsewhere!!! And you should too! There is no reason
> why customers should be submitted to such unscrupulous business practices
> after paying our hard earned moeny for their goods.
>
> Now, is there a mail order house that has better manners than AAA Camera
> Exchange? If so, which ones?
>
> Roberto
> --
> ---------------+----------------------------------------+---------------------
> Roberto Puon | An eye for an eye.... | pu...@gtlug.org
> MSEE | And the whole world will become blind. | pu...@traveller.com
> Huntsville, AL | - M. Gandhi - |
> ---------------+----------------------------------------+---------------------
for items priced under recent ads in photo mags.
Eric Birdsall
Understandable invective against AAA snipped. . . .
>Now, is there a mail order house that has better manners than AAA Camera
>Exchange? If so, which ones?
This is all too typical of many mailorder dealers, especially in New
York City. That's why I ALWAYS deal with B&H Photo. No run around, no
bait and switch, just good prices and good service.
Eric Birdsall
Department of English
University of Akron
Edward J. O'Rourke, M.D.
interactions with both.
Sherril & Bill Erfurth
The best thing to do is VOTE WITH YOUR DOLLARS, and VOTE WITH YOUR
FEET.
There are people who operate like that. Take your business to B&H, or
Wall Street Camera, or Camera World. These guys are in Shutterbug,
they have good reputations, and they want your business.
Regards,
Bill Erfurth
=======================================================================
>Now, is there a mail order house that has better manners than AAA
Camera
>Exchange? If so, which ones?
>
>
> Roberto
>--
>---------------+----------------------------------------+-------------
-------
>Roberto Puon | An eye for an eye.... |
pu...@gtlug.org
>MSEE | And the whole world will become blind. |
pu...@traveller.com
>Huntsville, AL | - M. Gandhi - |
>---------------+----------------------------------------+-------------
-------
Roberto Puon
Exchange)!! Have they forgotten that it is their customers who pay their
bills? I swear, I was very rudely treated by AAA Camera Exchange when
requesting pricing information on an SB-27 flash. After the salespig
demanded that I tell him how much wanted to pay for the flash, I told
him that I did not know because I was just starting to find prices. The
bastard refused to give me the pricing information and eventually ended
up hanging up on me! What kind of service is this?! Whatever happened
to corteous service America is so well known for!? Are people actually
putting up with this kind of bull shit? If not, what's the secret. As
one who is getting started in photography, it is very discouraging to
encounter this kind of behavior, specially from a company who is supposed
to be providing a service to their customers!
If they were affraid that I was going to take my business elsewhere after
they told me the price, with the treatment I received, I will certainly
take my business elsewhere!!! And you should too! There is no reason
why customers should be submitted to such unscrupulous business practices
after paying our hard earned moeny for their goods.
Now, is there a mail order house that has better manners than AAA Camera
Exchange? If so, which ones?
Roberto
--
---------------+----------------------------------------+---------------------
Roberto Puon | An eye for an eye.... | pu...@gtlug.org
MSEE | And the whole world will become blind. | pu...@traveller.com
Huntsville, AL | - M. Gandhi - |
---------------+----------------------------------------+---------------------
Robert Silvers
-- they really are not when you see that their products have a USA
warranty and you can really get them for the price advertized -- I just
got a Leica from them new for $400 less than the advertized price
(unadvertized special). Other places advertize a low price but it is
gray market and they will actually do amazing things like pull parts out
of the box and try to sell them as extra -- they just want you to call
so they can rip you off. Use B+H.
Roberto Puon wrote:
> Now, is there a mail order house that has better manners than AAA Camera
> Exchange? If so, which ones?
>
> Roberto
Rich Zuchowski
>
>It is unfortunate that these types of companies employ personnel who piss off
>customers like the above story mentions. This is not an isolated
incident
>either. I had a bad experience with Smile Photo.
>
>One has to wonder:
>
>1) Who do they hire - pro's or high school students? And, what are
their
>qualifications?
>
>2) Do salesmen get any kind of training for dealing with customers?
>
>3) Is it company policy to have the customers treated badly?
>
>4) Do the salesman actually want to save the customers from getting
the shaft
>and act as they do so that the customer will take their business
someplace
>else? Hmmmm.
>
Years ago when I had an unfortunate run-in with Adorama, I became
convinced that they purposely hired people who could only speak broken
English for their customer support department. Maybe they've changed,
but I haven't called Adorama for anything in over 15 years. I don't
even read their ads. You only burn me once.
Rich Zuchowski
rz...@ix.netcom.com
Roger Urban EUC
>Roberto Puon wrote:
>>
>> Ok. What is it with mail order houses (specifically AAA Camera
>> Exchange)!! Have they forgotten that it is their customers who pay their
>> bills? I swear, I was very rudely treated by AAA Camera Exchange when
>> requesting pricing information on an SB-27 flash. After the salespig
>> demanded that I tell him how much wanted to pay for the flash, I told
>> him that I did not know because I was just starting to find prices. The
>> bastard refused to give me the pricing information and eventually ended
>> up hanging up on me! What kind of service is this?! Whatever happened
>> to corteous service America is so well known for!? Are people actually
>> putting up with this kind of bull shit? If not, what's the secret. As
>> one who is getting started in photography, it is very discouraging to
>> encounter this kind of behavior, specially from a company who is supposed
>> to be providing a service to their customers!
>>
>> If they were affraid that I was going to take my business elsewhere after
>> they told me the price, with the treatment I received, I will certainly
>> take my business elsewhere!!! And you should too! There is no reason
>> why customers should be submitted to such unscrupulous business practices
>> after paying our hard earned moeny for their goods.
>>
>> Exchange? If so, which ones?
>> Visit my WWW home page at http://www.gtlug.org/~puonCamera World of Oregon are pleasant, helpful, and I've received quotes
>for items priced under recent ads in photo mags.
131G30000-D.GALENSKY(MT4743)1019MT
Sherril & Bill Erfurth <phot...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>>By the way, if I had gotten that kind of treatment from AAA, I would
>>just keep on calling back on their 800 number until I got an answer.
>>Then I would have their ad in front of me and call back for every
>>single item that showed 'CALL' in the price column. Then I might call
>>back to double check prices. It's their dime and will tie up their
>>'valuable' sales staff. Talk REAL slow with a Forrest Gump-like
>voice.
>>
naw, they'll just hang up on you. i like this better:
>
>I heard a story about the guy who got screwed out of a couple hundred
>dollars by a company with an 800 number (it was not the company we are
>talking about here) anyhow, this guy posted their 800 number on
>bulletin boards all over the country as a FREE DIAL A JOKE number.
>From what I understand, the guy never got him money back, but he did
>get revenge.
>
or, maybe try circulating it as the number from which
to order OJ Simpson interview tapes. protestors sure
jammed up the lines for that one.
duane
SCG
complain directly to the unscrupulous companies. If you
don't want them to hang up on you, Cambridge Camera Exchange
of New York, AAA and Abe Maine have their e-mail addresses listed
in their adds in Shutterbug or Popular Photography.
Do you think it is time to make an official complain in writing
to let them know they suck big time?
gboey
Unverified User
Check this one out. I ordered an EOS 430 from Coast to Coast only to find
that they had sent me a defective flash. I sent it back and when I got the
check (heaven forbid they refund the visa) it was not for the full
amount. When I called the 800number they refused to talk to me and made
me call back on my dime. It turns out that they charged me a restocking
fee as if I had returned the flash. After a semi-heated discussion they
finally assured me that they would send me a check (but it would not
include the postage I paid to have it
sent to me or the postage I had to pay to send it back to them.) Well,
you guessed it, one year later and I am still waiting for that check.
What to do about these obnoxious idiots? Don't buy from them. Tell your
friends not to buy from them. Tell everyone one on the net not to buy
from them. If you are like myself and don't have the money to pay retail,
shop the classified section of your local paper, or search the net.
Brent Tadsen
GPELPEL
The best by far, always courteous and helpful are B&H in NY and Camera
World of Oregon. Their prices are a little higher but not much and their
shipping charges are always reasonable and lower than the others. Adorama
is not too bad either but not as nice as the above.
Good luck
Georges Pelpel
GPE...@aol.com.
Matt Tuley
>Check this one out. I ordered an EOS 430 from Coast to Coast only to find
>that they had sent me a defective flash. I sent it back and when I got the
>check (heaven forbid they refund the visa)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This implies that you initially charged the purchase to your credit card. If
so, contact your card's customer service people, explain what happened, and
get them on it. You might not have a lot of recourse if you've already paid
the credit card bill, but it's worth a shot.
Brian Hendrickson
> Ok. What is it with mail order houses (specifically AAA Camera
> Exchange)!! Have they forgotten that it is their customers who pay their
>
>SNIP!<
>
> Now, is there a mail order house that has better manners than AAA Camera
> Exchange? If so, which ones?
>
> Roberto
Welcome to the grey market, Roberto. You'll save about a hundred bucks at
AAA, but you wont get a warranty, you wont get any kind of service, and
you may not get what you're looking for when the product arrives. It's a
crapshoot. Try Camera World of Oregon (I live in Portland, they're pretty
good). Good luck! -brian
___
/` `\
_./_\_ :
.-(-B(_)_| --.
___ | | :----''__ `.____________
| ` ' ; -. _ _ _.; |
| \ ' Brian Hendrickson |
| '-` fog...@teleport.com |
| http://www.teleport.com/~foghorn |
`----------------------------------'
Florin Grosu
unverif...@nd.edu (Unverified User) writes:
>Check this one out. I ordered an EOS 430 from Coast to Coast only to
find that they had sent me a defective flash. I sent it back and when
full amount. When I called the 800number they refused to talk to me
and made me call back on my dime. It turns out that they charged me a
restocking fee as if I had returned the flash. After a semi-heated
discussion they finally assured me that they would send me a check (but
it would not include the postage I paid to have it sent to me or the
one year later and I am still waiting for that check.
> What to do about these obnoxious idiots? Don't buy from them.
Tell your friends not to buy from them. Tell everyone one on the net
not to buy from them. If you are like myself and don't have the money
search the net.
>
> Brent Tadsen
How a jerky business like that can survive for many years in a tough
competition for customers dollars I don't know.Maby someone wich was
close to a business like that can explain.
Florin
Tim Witort
mtu...@jeffco.k12.co.us (Matt Tuley) wrote:
> In article <unverified.user-...@mac10.fitzpatrick.lab.nd.edu> unverif...@nd.edu (Unverified User) writes:
>
>
> >Check this one out. I ordered an EOS 430 from Coast to Coast only to find
> >that they had sent me a defective flash. I sent it back and when I got the
> >check (heaven forbid they refund the visa)
> This implies that you initially charged the purchase to your credit card. If
> so, contact your card's customer service people, explain what happened, and
> get them on it.
Better yet, BY LAW, if you pay for something on your credit card and return the
product and are not correctly reimbursed or credited or whatever. You can
simply NOT PAY that portion of your credit card balance when the
statement comes and inform your financial institution in writing what happened:
that you returned the product but did not get credited. This is the
*BIG* advantage of paying with plastic. The funds are under your control
instead of the mailorder company's control.
All of the details of this are written in the law. I'll have to dig
up the text and post it here - since so many of us do mail order
business with plastic, seems like a good fit.
-- Tim
George J. Koronios
[stuff deleted]
>I ordered an EOS 430 from Coast to Coast only to
>find that they had sent me a defective flash.
>I sent it back and ... they charged me a restocking fee.
[more stuff deleted]
Camera World of Oregon did the same thing to me a couple of
years back for a defective Sunpak flash they had sent me.
I had no time to argue since I was leaving on a three month
vacation. But I will never order anything from CWO again.
--
George
Shyam Parekh
in Chicago, until recently. They refused to let me order an Ikelite
housing (U/W photo equip.) using my VISA card. Even though the housing
was a stock Ikelite item, not custom, they claimed that they needed
payment (cash!) up-front before they even ordered the item from Ikelite!
I can't imagine giving some mail-order house hundreds or thousands of
dollars in cash trusting everything will be handled properly; I'd have
no arbitration privledges (as you have through your credit provider).
Anyway, B&H not only gave me a better price, they accepted the credit
card payment. And to top it off, they allowed me to modify my order
a week after the order had been placed. Ikelite had already sent them
the housing and it was ready to be shipped out. B&H searched for the
housing, found it, cancelled my previous order, and submitted my new
order without even the slightest hassle.
Even though B&H is a "New York" seller, they have shown me, again and
again, that they are honest and have respect for customer satisfaction.
Just my $0.02,
Shyam
GoB...@netcom.com
In article <310491...@media.mit.edu> Robert Silvers <rsil...@media.mit.edu> writes:
>Use B+H. They are trustworthy, and even though their prices look higher
>-- they really are not when you see that their products have a USA
>warranty and you can really get them for the price advertized -- I just
>got a Leica from them new for $400 less than the advertized price
>(unadvertized special). Other places advertize a low price but it is
>gray market and they will actually do amazing things like pull parts out
>of the box and try to sell them as extra -- they just want you to call
>so they can rip you off. Use B+H.
>
>Roberto Puon wrote:
>
>> Now, is there a mail order house that has better manners than AAA Camera
>> Exchange? If so, which ones?
>>
>> Roberto
>
>
Luis Nadeau
T...@medcal1.csustan.edu (Tim Witort) wrote:
> In article <mtuley.12...@jeffco.k12.co.us>,
> mtu...@jeffco.k12.co.us (Matt Tuley) wrote:
> > In article
<unverified.user-...@mac10.fitzpatrick.lab.nd.edu>
unverif...@nd.edu (Unverified User) writes:
> >
> >
> > >Check this one out. I ordered an EOS 430 from Coast to Coast only to find
> > >that they had sent me a defective flash. I sent it back and when I got the
> > >check (heaven forbid they refund the visa)
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > This implies that you initially charged the purchase to your credit
card. If
> > so, contact your card's customer service people, explain what happened, and
> > get them on it.
>
> Better yet, BY LAW, if you pay for something on your credit card and
return the
> product and are not correctly reimbursed or credited or whatever. You can
> simply NOT PAY that portion of your credit card balance when the
> statement comes and inform your financial institution in writing what
happened:
> that you returned the product but did not get credited. This is the
> *BIG* advantage of paying with plastic. The funds are under your control
> instead of the mailorder company's control.
From Canada, I ordered certain items from 47th Street Photo in NYC a few
years ago, with my a credit card. Long story, but they jerked me around
and I couldn't get my money back after months of hassles. I called the
credit card outfit, American Express, and asked why they authorized crooks
to take payment on their cards. After filling out a form, I got all my
money back and then some. The letter I got with the check said that since
the establishment in question had not replied to their inquiry in a
satisfactory manner, they had taken the amount in question of of their
account and put it into mine.
I only buy with credit cards now.
BTW, banks often tell you that the problem is between you and the
merchant. That is true to a point. If a product is not delivered and you
cannot get your money back you can go after the bank that issued the card.
Luis Nadeau
awe...@mi.net
nad...@nbnet.nb.ca
Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada
http://www.micronet.fr/~deriencg/nadeau.html
http://www.primenet.com/~dbarto/lnadeau.html#A0
Shyh Ming Chern
a camera body and a 28-70 mm lens as a package price. ....finally, I received
only the camera body and never saw the lens. I called many times to their
service dept. and they either let you hold for a long time or try to make
an excuse saying thay they are ordering it, ask you to be patient, you'll
receive it in two weeks, ... and you know the result. I ever wrote this
to the Popular Photography, but it's like I never wrote them. This kind of
mail-order store is still on their "Checkrated Stores", I guess they need
their ads. to surive, I don't blame them. Just wonder, is there any effective
way that would let people know how this kind of stores are doing their
business, from my opinion, they shouldn't surive, but they do. I was cheated
by them before I started to read posts from this group. But I can ensure you
that I would never never deal with them again ever.
Just want to share my experience with those who still don't know them.
Chern
Rich Zuchowski
refuse to pay until your order has been completed to your satisfaction.
You really do have a lot of leverage this way.
Rich
In <4ehucp$k...@giant.seas.smu.edu> s...@seas.smu.edu (Shyh Ming Chern)
writes:
an...@athenet.net
an...@athenet.net
>Now, is there a mail order house that has better manners than AAA Camera
>Exchange? If so, which ones?
I have used Camera World of Oregon and Worldwide Photo. Both were helpful. CWO has low prices on most things but bodies,
Worldwide has lower prcies on bodies.
Andy
Robert McLean
I've always been treated with courtesy at Calumet and Zone VI (now owned
by Calumet). For me, it's worth the bother. In Canada, ALT in Toronto has
always been great: phone (800) 387-9891
Bob
JRossETSU
(George J. Koronios) writes:
>>I ordered an EOS 430 from Coast to Coast only to
>>find that they had sent me a defective flash.
>>I sent it back and ... they charged me a restocking fee.
Marine Park got me with it. I ordered a couple of lenses and flash units
for a Pentax. What I got was 1 Olympus lens, one backordered, and 2 flash
units that were the wrong models. They hit me for a restock fee even
after they screwed up the order.
They will NEVER get my business again. I will stay with B&H. No problems
form them...yet. (Knock on Wood) :-)
Adam
>Use B+H. They are trustworthy, and even though their prices look higher
>-- they really are not when you see that their products have a USA
>warranty and you can really get them for the price advertized -- I just
>got a Leica from them new for $400 less than the advertized price
>(unadvertized special). Other places advertize a low price but it is
>gray market and they will actually do amazing things like pull parts out
>of the box and try to sell them as extra -- they just want you to call
>so they can rip you off. Use B+H.
Yeah, well that point is debatable, you have to watch it with B+H as much
as any other semi-shady NYC mail-order house, ask for USA Warranty
specifically because if there is any way they can sell you their gray
market version, they will.
-A.
>
>Roberto Puon wrote:
>
>> Now, is there a mail order house that has better manners than AAA Camera
>> Exchange? If so, which ones?
>>
>> Roberto
>
>
>617/253-6515 http://grim.media.mit.edu
Patrick M Pritchard
McLean) wrote:
About ALT camera. I'm unsure as to how good they are with mail order, but
since I've started going there, only ONE person has talked to me if I
wasn't planning on buying anything. Their general attitude is "if you
don't want to buy, we don;'t want to talk"; IE: I wanted to get some info
on a new enlarger, and nobody would give me the time of day.
HENRY's down the street has better customer service..
-P
--
Patrick M Pritchard - CYBERAD/RPG - Skyfox@IRC OUT OF SERVICE -> p...@io.org
The VisualFlex Studios, Toronto USE THIS ADDRESS -> ppri...@acs.ryerson.ca
PictureTakenVinylSpininTeknoDancingOilPaintinMacUsinCommieProgrammingKindOfGuy
Box 34527 - 1565 Jane St. - Toronto Ontario - M9N 2R3 - Canada - 416/241-8489
__
"Unstopable, uncontainable, unpredictable: PMP/TVST w/ Pentax, Metz, and ILFORD '96"
Adam
>In <DLp8x...@ceco.ceco.com> Roger Urban EUC <rur...@ccmail.ceco.com> writes:
>
>>
>>customers like the above story mentions. This is not an isolated
>incident
>>either. I had a bad experience with Smile Photo.
>>
>>One has to wonder:
>>
>>1) Who do they hire - pro's or high school students? And, what are
>their
>>qualifications?
>>
>>2) Do salesmen get any kind of training for dealing with customers?
>>
>>3) Is it company policy to have the customers treated badly?
>>
>>4) Do the salesman actually want to save the customers from getting
>the shaft
>>and act as they do so that the customer will take their business
>someplace
>>else? Hmmmm.
>>
>convinced that they purposely hired people who could only speak broken
>English for their customer support department. Maybe they've changed,
>but I haven't called Adorama for anything in over 15 years. I don't
>even read their ads. You only burn me once.
>
>Rich Zuchowski
>rz...@ix.netcom.com
>
I will never order from Adorama again, nor B+H, and there are a few
others as well; it seems my list of "never agains" is getting longer
every year, too bad really...
-A.
Robert Silvers
>
> Robert Silvers <rsil...@media.mit.edu> wrote:
> >Use B+H. They are trustworthy, and even though their prices look higher
> >-- they really are not when you see that their products have a USA
> >warranty and you can really get them for the price advertized -- I just
> >got a Leica from them new for $400 less than the advertized price
> >(unadvertized special). Other places advertize a low price but it is
> >gray market and they will actually do amazing things like pull parts out
> >of the box and try to sell them as extra -- they just want you to call
> >so they can rip you off. Use B+H.
>
> Yeah, well that point is debatable, you have to watch it with B+H as much
> as any other semi-shady NYC mail-order house, ask for USA Warranty
> specifically because if there is any way they can sell you their gray
> market version, they will.
>
B+H has very few gray market items -- they are not like SMILE that mostly
has gray market. I always ask for USA warranty when I mail order -- this
is just something you have to know when you mail order camera stuff. B+H
is not in the same catagory as SMILE, AAA, Cambridge, ... They will not
lie to you like some other places. If you are inexperienced, you may have
trouble with any NY place because they are so busy and in a hurry on the
phone (my Leica M6 transaction took < 30 seconds -- my head was spinning).
They don't have time to hand-hold because they are overwhelmed by phone calls.
You have to know what you want. I am super sensitive to bullshit, and B+H
has never tried to deliberatly mislead me. I would not call them semi-shady,
but I would call many other places completely shady.
jmu...@tiac.net
>Adam wrote:
>B+H has very few gray market items -- they are not like SMILE that mostly
^^^^^^^
You must be dislexic. You spelled this incorrectly -------------^
It is spelled SLIME. ; )
K. G. Wiles
>Ok. What is it with mail order houses (specifically AAA Camera
>Exchange)!! Have they forgotten that it is their customers who pay their
>bills? I swear, I was very rudely treated by AAA Camera Exchange when
>requesting pricing information on an SB-27 flash. After the salespig
>demanded that I tell him how much wanted to pay for the flash, I told
>him that I did not know because I was just starting to find prices. The
>bastard refused to give me the pricing information and eventually ended
>up hanging up on me! What kind of service is this?! Whatever happened
>to corteous service America is so well known for!? Are people actually
>putting up with this kind of bull shit? If not, what's the secret. As
>one who is getting started in photography, it is very discouraging to
>encounter this kind of behavior, specially from a company who is supposed
>to be providing a service to their customers!
>If they were affraid that I was going to take my business elsewhere after
>they told me the price, with the treatment I received, I will certainly
>take my business elsewhere!!! And you should too! There is no reason
>why customers should be submitted to such unscrupulous business practices
>after paying our hard earned moeny for their goods.
>Now, is there a mail order house that has better manners than AAA Camera
>Exchange? If so, which ones?
Roberto,
I noticed your address was Alabama and (at the risk of alienating EVERYONE
east of the Mississippi and north of the old Mason-Dixon), I'd suggest dealing
with either Camera World of Oregon or Freestyle in L.A. Other New
Yorkers can probably hold their own with these people, but most of us from
anywhere else are put off by "The Attitude". It's not going to change so WE
might as well.
Kathy
Adam
>> >Use B+H. They are trustworthy, and even though their prices look higher
>> >-- they really are not when you see that their products have a USA
>> >warranty and you can really get them for the price advertized -- I just
>> >got a Leica from them new for $400 less than the advertized price
>> >(unadvertized special). Other places advertize a low price but it is
>> >gray market and they will actually do amazing things like pull parts out
>> >of the box and try to sell them as extra -- they just want you to call
>> >so they can rip you off. Use B+H.
>>
>> Yeah, well that point is debatable, you have to watch it with B+H as much
>> as any other semi-shady NYC mail-order house, ask for USA Warranty
>> specifically because if there is any way they can sell you their gray
>> market version, they will.
>>
>
>is just something you have to know when you mail order camera stuff. B+H
>is not in the same catagory as SMILE, AAA, Cambridge, ... They will not
>lie to you like some other places.
Again, this is debatable - I have heard numerous examples of B&H sending
people gray market equipment when they asked for stuff with blank, USA
warranty cards - myself included...
-A.
Troy brown
Maine, I was very wary about ordering from
them, despite the fact that they were the
only company that seemed to fit my budget. I
took the plunge, and panicked immediately
when it appeared that they had made a mistake
and ordered the wrong equipment (I was
charged for a more expensive model). When I
e-mailed them to tell them of the error, they
responded by telling me that they would
refund my credit card for the difference, and
that I would simply keep the model that they
had sent me. As this was a big saving, I was
very happy with their response. I received
notification from a local transport company
that my goods arrived yesterday, so they must
also have been fairly prompt in shipping the
order.......
I am definitely not saying that they are
perfect, but I was very happy with the
service I received.
Troy Brown
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stacey Brown Phone: (07) 864 5950
Faculty Computer Systems Officer Fax: (07) 864 5662
Faculty of Health
Queensland University of Technology Mailing Address:
Kelvin Grove Campus Locked Bag No. 2
Brisbane Queensland Australia Red Hill QLD 4059
*****The most wasted of all days is that on which one has not laughed*****
Nicholas Chamfort
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wachira Chongburee
>e-mailed them to tell them of the error, they
>responded by telling me that they would
>refund my credit card for the difference,
It does not mean the story ends unless you got both product and credit to
your account. Post the final result again, please.
Just another point of veiw.
'Chira
Don't take anything for granted.
BhPhot
>> as any other semi-shady NYC mail-order house, ask for USA Warranty
>> specifically because if there is any way they can sell you their gray
>> market version, they will.
This is simply not logical. Whether a customer purchases one item or the
other, our profit margin is unaffected. If you buy the grey item we paid
500 for and sold to you for 515, or the USA item we paid 540 for and sold
to you for 555 -- there's no difference to us.
>B+H has very few gray market items --
We have both -- WHY?
1) Sometimes grey is less expensive to the customer who's watching a
budget
2) Sometimes the features differ slightly -- the EOS 5 vs EOS A2E for one
3) Sometimes the USA distributor runs out of an item & grey's the only way
it's available
<Again, this is debatable - I have heard numerous examples of B&H sending
<people gray market equipment when they asked for stuff with blank, USA
<warranty cards - myself included...
One unfortunate unsubstantiated incident certainly cannot be extrapolated
to indicate a malicious habit.
-----------------------------------------------
Henry Posner / B&H Photo-Video
70550...@compuserve.com
Rich Zuchowski
though I didn't specifically mention anything about it in my
discussions with the. Besides, they offer a 7 year supplemental
warranty at a reasonable price, which if available with the gray-market
stuff, should remove much of the apprehension about getting it fixed if
it broke on you.
Rich Zuchowski
rz...@ix.netcom.com
Leonard Caplan
on my first look.
It seems here that any loud mouthed nut can post whatever they want with
absolutly no accounability.
For the record, B&H, who is _not_ one of my dealers, happens to be one of
the most reputablr dealers around. Being in the business, and also being
quite active on the Compuserve PhotoForum, I can say from my observations
that they are about as reputable as any mail order house around....and
better by far than most.
This does not mean that people do not have problems once in a while.
When dealing with as large a volume as they do, misunderstandings and
mishaps can happen with any company. I have seen and heard of some, but
never _one_ that within reason was not resolved to the customes
satisfaction.
I am not big on Grey Market goods myself, especially since I am a
distributer,...but the only reason a grey market exists is that the
consumer wants it.
The stupidity of the initial comment that resulted in HP's responce is a
prime example of how people with a total lack of business or common sense
have the ability to post messages which are totally stupid and
irresonsable. There is a big difference between misleading someone into
believing that they are getting USA goods and shipping grey, and offering
them and giving the buyer a choice.
...just one man's opinion
--
******************************
Sent by: Len Caplan of London Imports Ltd....North American Agent for
Fogg Camera Bags
******************************
bea...@primenet.com
:I am fairly new to the Internet, and am pretty disenchanted with it based
:on my first look.
:It seems here that any loud mouthed nut can post whatever they want with
:absolutly no accounability.
Exactly, Leonard, but do not be disenchanted with it: revel in it! It
is the postings of those that you describe that fosters the reasoned
rebuttal and gives the lie to the original poster's material. The
readers are then able to ferret out the most credible position.
--
Roger Beamon Natural History Interpreter & Photographer
Docent, Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum
The INTERNET: bea...@primenet.com
EdVincent1
them. I have had trouble with Smile Photo, who billed me $100 more than
what they had quoted me or advertised in the magazines. Does anyone have
anything to say about AAA?
Leonard Caplan
>Exactly, Leonard, but do not be disenchanted with it: revel in it! It
>is the postings of those that you describe that fosters the reasoned
>rebuttal and gives the lie to the original poster's material. The
>readers are then able to ferret out the most credible position.
> --
> Roger Beamon Natural History Interpreter & Photographer
> Docent, Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum
> The INTERNET: bea...@primenet.com
>
>
This is all well and good when it comes to opinions, but unfortunatly if
there is an open season on manufacturers and others in the business by
every wacko that has some sort of bone to pick, whether or not there is
any justification, it puts anyone in the business in a position of
answering the question...."When did you stop beating your wife?"
The only thing irresponsible, uncontrolled, and unmoderated attacks will
accomplish is to keep those of us in the business on "safe" web sites,
rather than on newsgroups where one is open to irresponsible sniper
attacks. Perhaps moderated newsgroups are the way to go, leaving
unmoderated ones to bee similar to writing notes on Mensroom walls.
I have always been an advocate of totally free speech, but with free
speech comes responsibility.
Messages such as "AAA those Bastards" or "So and so sucks" is a real
turnoff. Believe me, I can have a pretty big mouth at times, and have
probably stepped on some toes, but when the boarders of civility get
breached, everyone suffers.
Len
Rich Zuchowski
to pick the wheat from the chaff. Personally, I would rather hear
everything everyone had to say, rather than stuff that was filtered
through a moderator. Let me decide who has a real gripe and who has
unrealistic expectations.
The freedom for you to say what you want has the price tag of you
having to listen to someone else say something you might not want to
hear.
Rich Zuchowski
rz...@ix.netcom.com
In <4f56oe$a...@reader2.ix.netcom.com> Leonard Caplan
Fiorenzo Cattaneo
Leonard, IMHO, I agree with all you say.
Let me also add that I read rec.photo.marketplace
to find for buy/sell deals.
Lately a lot of postings had to do with the bad/good quality of mail
order houses, and I'm quite tired of it.
Everything that could possibly be said about mail order places has been
said, I don't particularily care that some people got badly treated by
ACME cameras inc (I hope there is no such real company),
what I care to know is what's the average quality
of such mail order houses; that's what the statistics are for.
It can happen to
anyone to get bad treatment by the salesperson who that day had a fight
with his/her significant other. Besides the caller can be very rude too.
So please stop posting this kind of stuff, we have anough information
to make educated guess from mail order house to buy/not to buy.
If this background noise doesn't stop, by all means I agree that we
should moderate this group.
--fio
In article <4f5ddt$d...@reader2.ix.netcom.com>, Leonard Caplan <72254...@compuserve.com> writes:
|> rz...@ix.netcom.com(Rich Zuchowski ) wrote:
|> >I think everyone here is mature enough and has enough brains to be able
|> >to pick the wheat from the chaff. Personally, I would rather hear
|> >everything everyone had to say, rather than stuff that was filtered
|> >through a moderator. Let me decide who has a real gripe and who has
|> >unrealistic expectations.
|> >
|> >The freedom for you to say what you want has the price tag of you
|> >having to listen to someone else say something you might not want to
|> >hear.
|> >
|>
|> A very interesting perspective, but IMHO sort of out in left field. Many
|> of the individuals on the net and elsewhere are mature individuals, and
|> unfortunatly a good many are not.
|>
|> Sadly, there are many that when sitting safely behind a computer terminal
|> develop this feeling of power and express themselves in a way that they
|> would never consider doing in a face to face situation....sort of like
|> the Wizard of Oz.
|>
|> The attitude that "let it all fly loose and us mature ones will decide
|> what is valid and what is not" is a bunch of garbage. If there is no
|> civility and common courtesy, you will not find very many representatives
|> of companies in the business on the newsgroups. Companies like Leica,
|> and others are smart to stay off, and stick to safe Web Sites....who
|> needs the abuse.
|>
|> For some strange reason many people feel that it is their god given right
|> to have public access to whomever they want, with the right to vent
|> whatever bothers them, with a jury of other computer users determining
|> what is valid and what is not.
|>
|> I challange anyone to put themselves in a position in their private lives
|> to leave themselves open to abuse and uniformed critisuzm. and both enjoy
|> it and come back for more.
|>
|> Until such time as manners become the way to go, and language that would
|> not be acceptable in front of your children stopped, what you will end up
|> with here is a more accessable, but cheaper, and not as good version of
|> the Compuserve PhotoForum.
|>
|> There is a difference between self-policing and no ground rules. IMHO
|> eventually what you will end up with is a forum frequented only by thos
|> who "are out to get the world" and those with bad manners and agendas.
|>
|> The majority of decent folks will find somewhere else to play, where
|> decency and information are the main course, and not just mussle flexing.
|>
|> There is a difference between freedom of speach, and decency. I cannot
|> take seriously any discussion, other than down at the local pub, where
|> "Bastard, Sucks, etc." and the like are acceptable in communication with
|> people that you have never met.
|>
|> IMHO a person who would get on a public forum with a title such as Those
|> AAA bastards has a serious personality disorder, and does not get high
|> marks in social situations. There are other ways to express extreme
|> displeasure,
|> --
|> ******************************
|> Posted by Len Caplan of London Imports Ltd.
|> North American Agent for Fogg Camera Bags
|> and distributer of James Lager's
|> "Leica...An Illustrated History" books.
|> 516 295-3903 516 295-4835 Fax
|> ******************************
|>
|>
Adam
Unsubstantiated? You sack of shit! What the hell is that - are you
implying that I lied? Your company is the miscreant in this scenario, not
I, the customer.
I can post order numbers, serial numbers and dates if you want - why you
would want to draw more attention to your companies bullshit I do not
know.
-A.
Adam
>I am fairly new to the Internet, and am pretty disenchanted with it based
>on my first look.
>
>It seems here that any loud mouthed nut can post whatever they want with
>absolutly no accounability.
Yes, any "loudmouth" can post whatever they want, I can see how someone
who has something to hide might find this disenchanting, but honest folks
shouldn't have much to worry about.
>
>For the record, B&H, who is _not_ one of my dealers, happens to be one of
>the most reputablr dealers around. Being in the business, and also being
>quite active on the Compuserve PhotoForum, I can say from my observations
>that they are about as reputable as any mail order house around....and
>better by far than most.
There are much better (service) - they happen to cost a little more.
>
>This does not mean that people do not have problems once in a while.
>When dealing with as large a volume as they do, misunderstandings and
>mishaps can happen with any company. I have seen and heard of some, but
>never _one_ that within reason was not resolved to the customes
>satisfaction.
Look, I posted my tale of woe - I don't want to do it agin. I will not
order from B&H any more, but I understand that there are people out there
who get great service from them.
>
>I am not big on Grey Market goods myself, especially since I am a
>distributer,...but the only reason a grey market exists is that the
>consumer wants it.
I agree, but problems arise when "the cusumer" does not want gray market
equipment but gets it anyway - this *does* happen.
>
>The stupidity of the initial comment that resulted in HP's responce is a
>prime example of how people with a total lack of business or common sense
>have the ability to post messages which are totally stupid and
>irresonsable.
Is that it? Oh, I thought this forum was for people to help other people.
The thread I posted to was dicussing mail order houses, and problems
associtaed with them. I posted a problem I had with B&H. I even began my
post with a disclaimer, to the effect that many people get good service
from them.
> There is a big difference between misleading someone into
>believing that they are getting USA goods and shipping grey, and offering
>them and giving the buyer a choice.
And in *My* case I was misled into believing that I was buying USA goods,
but was sent gray market goods; twice! When I say misled, I mean that I
asked for USA goods and was told that I would get USA goods. I do not
mean to imply here that B&H lied to me on purpose - but the whole
situation was completely rediculous and I have yet to get any
satisfaction, nay, the opposite; I have now had Henry Posner refer to my
post as "unsubstantiated."
>
>...just one man's opinion
And you are welcome to it, please leave me mine!
>
>--
>******************************
>Sent by: Len Caplan of London Imports Ltd....North American Agent for
>Fogg Camera Bags
>******************************
>
>
And do you suppose that the good people at "Fogg Camera Bags" want you
and your post representing them?
Rich Zuchowski
Just today I received a used 75-300 AF Nikkor lens from Le Camera that
they rated as M- (mint- ?). I'm not to sure about it and hope that
someone can either reassure me or tell me I've got a problem.
Maybe it's just me, but I've had zoom lenses in the past (mostly cheap
ones) that the push-pull zoom would move by gravity if you held it in a
full vertical position either pointing toward the sky or towards the
ground. I guess I expected a Nikkor lens to be tighter and not do this
sort of thing. Or is this something that ALL zooms will do? The zoom
section moves very freely and it is very difficult to keep from banging
it at the forward and reverse end of travel.
The front section (the part that moves when focusing) appears to have
some slight play in it and will rattle if I shake the lens. Is this
normal?
There are a couple of rub marks on the body, but my untrained eye can
see no problems at all with the glass. I put it on my camera and it
zooms quickly and fluidly and focus appears dead on. Image appears
very sharp.
So am I worried about nothing concerning the above mentioned
'problems'? I believe I've got 14 days to decide if I like it and the
price I paid wasn't all that much less than what I could get a new one
for. But Le Camera was willing to take a couple of my Canon lenses in
trade towards the lens, and this seemed the best way to do it. But
it's not a good deal for me if I have a lens that has been through too
much use and has loosened up from it.
Thanks!
Rich Zuchowski
rz...@ix.netcom.com
Leonard Caplan
>
>Leonard, IMHO, I agree with all you say.
>
>Let me also add that I read rec.photo.marketplace
> to find for buy/sell deals.
>Lately a lot of postings had to do with the bad/good quality of mail
>order houses, and I'm quite tired of it.
>Everything that could possibly be said about mail order places has been
When one looks at an ad, if it screams "LOW PRICE LOW PRICE-WE WILL BEAT
ANYONE'S PRICE" you have got to assume that you must watch youself. Most
of these dealers, especially on new equipment are working on 2% to 4%
margin. Unless one is making money somewhere else, you cannot run a
business on that kind of markup and be around for long.
There is not a heck of a lot there to be able to pay for time chatting on
the phone, or smetimes common courtesy. You want the cheapest price, and
can expect no more than to make it your responsibility to understand the
ground rules, and expect no service, no extras, no nothing other than the
product.
There are dealers out there such as Tamarkin, Samy's, Ghitleman,
Chaterton, etc., who offer good prices and service, but will not give the
stuff away. They offer good service and reasonably competitive prices,
and will spend time with you and can afford to since they are at least
making some profit on items they sell, and not just turning over money.
Dealers such as these are _IN_ the photo equipment business, and
understand what they sell, The companies that super discount are in the
busimess of selling whatever they can, be it photo, computer, consumer
electronics, etc.,....they are just turning over money, and can't be
expected to know anything about what they sell, in spite of what their
ads say <S>.
I too am tired of these loud mouthed "panty waists" screaming because
they do not like he way they were treated by what obviously is an outfit
that will not give service.
You get what you pay for.
Len
Swedenborg(Michael)
good experience with them and so do a lot of other people on the
newsgroup. It just gets tiring coming to their defense based on
(i) extremely isolated incidents or (ii) shoppers with thin skins,
a lot of questions and anger at B&H's efforts to minimize time
spent on 800 number calls that don't just produce and order and
move it along efficiently.
The only problem with attacks that are in the nature of isolated
incidents is that a new person just reading the group for a few
days might come away with a completely skewed opinion, not having
seen early posts or not waiting for followup posts. I regret this,
but I don't think censorship is the answer.
As for generality quotes like "AAA sucks!" I had experience with
them years ago and have to agree with the original poster. They
are SO bad that they deserve this comment.
More often, people give the details of their complaint, and most of
us can read between the lines and tell whether we would react the
same way or would have thicker skins and be able to handle it.
Also, I have come to the defense of mail order places for such
tactics as charging at time of order (without knowing if the
merchandise is in stock). There are business reasons for making
sure a mail order customer is legitimate and able to pay and
somewhat pinning their order down so they don't just get off the
phone, call another place and put in a duplicate order, then
cancel the one they don't want. I am sure the good mail order
places have more "pain in the ass" customer stories than we have
"pain in the ass store" stories.
As for you, Len - you deal in a rather high ticket item. It sounds
as though you are just too "genteel" for almost any pointed
discusssions. Like for example, why the Brit bags are plastic
lined so they won't breathe and therefore encourage mildew in damp
climates, compared to Domke bags which are canvas which "breathes"
except in rain when it swells up and becomes water shedding. So
there!
Michael
Terry Price
are tight and smooth. Even my E-type 75-150 does not fall by gravity
alone. Your's does not sound right.
Adam
>bea...@primenet.com wrote:
>
>>Exactly, Leonard, but do not be disenchanted with it: revel in it! It
>>is the postings of those that you describe that fosters the reasoned
>>rebuttal and gives the lie to the original poster's material. The
>>readers are then able to ferret out the most credible position.
>> --
>> Roger Beamon Natural History Interpreter & Photographer
>> Docent, Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum
>> The INTERNET: bea...@primenet.com
>>
>>
>
>there is an open season on manufacturers and others in the business by
>every wacko that has some sort of bone to pick, whether or not there is
>any justification, it puts anyone in the business in a position of
>answering the question...."When did you stop beating your wife?"
Welcome to usenet.
>
>The only thing irresponsible, uncontrolled, and unmoderated attacks will
>accomplish is to keep those of us in the business on "safe" web sites,
>rather than on newsgroups where one is open to irresponsible sniper
>attacks.
This NG is for the discussion of topics related to 35mm equipment. If the
tedium of buying such equipment is relevant, then it should be discussed.
If a buyer has a problem with a distributor or a manufacterer then he/she
should post it to help others make informed decisions - even if only to
say that the problem was taken care of gracefully, and how that was
acheived.
If a store screws somebody, this is often the only place for them to talk
about it with people who care and understand. It is also a place where
the people who read such posts will have had either similer or disimilar
experiences and can offer advice.
Nothing speaks better for a store than to have other customers come to
it's defense. If all that accumulates are more and more complaints, you
can bet that the store deserves what it is getting.
I can see how manufacturers and distributors would want that kind of
discussion squashed - but that is exactly why it must continue.
> Perhaps moderated newsgroups are the way to go, leaving
>unmoderated ones to bee similar to writing notes on Mensroom walls.
Moderated by whom? By the manufacturers & distributors? I bet you would
like that very much. Unfortunatley for everyone else, that would be a
less useful forum for discussing problematic vendors than we have here.
>
>I have always been an advocate of totally free speech, but with free
>speech comes responsibility.
>
>Messages such as "AAA those Bastards" or "So and so sucks" is a real
>turnoff.
That's the point of such messages. While I agree that responsible posting
is important, so is public discourse. By arguing and hashing things out;
the truth is revealed. If the truth that is revealed = AAA are bastards,
then that truth needed to be revealed. If AAA doesn't like it, too bad!
On the negative side, a reckless post can damage a hard-won reputation -
but rarely will such a post go unexamined. Public scrutiny is the best
defense against reckless attacks.
> Believe me, I can have a pretty big mouth at times, and have
>probably stepped on some toes, but when the boarders of civility get
>breached, everyone suffers.
>
And when corporate sponsorship censors the free flow of ideas and
discussion, everyone suffers even more...
-A.
>Len
>--
>******************************
>Sent by: Len Caplan of London Imports Ltd....North American Agent for
>Fogg Camera Bags
>******************************
>
>
Leonard Caplan
>As for generality quotes like "AAA sucks!" I had experience with
>them years ago and have to agree with the original poster. They
>are SO bad that they deserve this comment.
For the record, AAA is Cambridge Camera.
>
>
>As for you, Len - you deal in a rather high ticket item. It sounds
>as though you are just too "genteel" for almost any pointed
>discusssions. Like for example, why the Brit bags are plastic
>lined so they won't breathe and therefore encourage mildew in damp
>climates, compared to Domke bags which are canvas which "breathes"
>except in rain when it swells up and becomes water shedding. So
>there!
Firstly, Fogg Bags are not made in the UK, and haven't been for the past
3 1/2 years. They are made in Southwest France by two indiviuals, Nigel
Fogg and bee berman <sic>, who happen to be South African.
They are not plastic lined, but are made of a fabric which is composed of
22 oz.100% Cotton Drill, inner lined with 12 0z 100% Cotton Muslin, over
a layer of thin rubber to make them fully waterproof. They are hand made
entirely by these two people who produce about 75 bags per month in
total. The unique fabric and design do not make the bags prone to
excessive moisture or mildue. I just heard from one working pro who
speant almost a month in Italy doing most of his shooting in the rain.
His comment was that the bag held up beautifully to constant soaking, and
protected the equipment. Part of the reason is the inner and outer
fabric will disipate the water and allow it to evaporate. The fabric BTW
is about identical to the stuff used on the convertable top of a
Ferrarri. I haven't checked lately, but have not heard of any Ferrarris
mildewing
Domke bags are excellent bags, and I still have my original F2. They are
a different type of bag than the Fogg Bags, and comparisons of either to
the other are unfair to both. I have no problem discussing in public
forum the pluses and minuses of both. Fogg Bags are not everyones cup of
tea any more than the Domkes are. You cannot compare a hand made,
limited production bag, that costs a bundle with a well designed bag with
not a lot of protection, and that costs about 1/5 of what the Fogg Bags
do. There are countless thousand that rightfully so love the Domke bags,
as well as as countless hundreds <s> of people who will have nothing less
than a Fogg.
As far as being "genteel". I think that anyone on the Compuserve
PhotoForum will attest to that if anything, I will stand up to anything I
feel is wrong, and probably have been often accussed of being too
outspoken <s>.
There is a difference between making a strong and forceful argument, and
being totally rude and obnoxious.
There are a lot of wackos out in the world, and it is nice that they have
a forum to express their antisocial behaviour in such a free way, with no
accounability. There are many unscrupulous dealers out there, and they
deserve to be exposed. There are many who unfortunatly are not this way,
that also should not have to be put into a position to defend themselves
against obnoxious unfounded attacks. If it serves to let ungentalmanly
individuals beat up on anyone they want because they think that they have
the right, it probably is well served so they will be less inclined to
punch someone out over a parking space or beat their wives.
The attack on B&H is a prime example. The reason for the attack is still
unclear to me since the buyer, Adam I believe, seems to have had a
misunderstanding as to whether he was ordering Grey or USA good. As far
as I know he got his money back. There was no hugh outpouring of other
people who had complaints about B&H.....but actually there were a few
posts in support.
Henry Posner had the decency to state his side of the story, and to state
his store's policy. For this he was called a "bag of shit", as well as
other things. He had the common sense not to get into further discussion
with someone who seems to be an out of control person, with not a hell of
a lot of class, and who does not seem to have been damaged by them in any
way.
What consumers try to pull on stores and manufacturers would blow your
mind. I had someone actually return an $880 bag to a dealer with the
story that the color was coming off just from a few drops of water. When
I examined the bag it was quite obvious that the person tried to use a
strong abrasive spot remover, and although most of the stain came out,
the whole area around the stain had been abraded and discoloured.
Even though the people that manufacture the bag offered to completely
replace the top assembly, which would require about 4-5 hours of hand
work, this person threw all kinds of tantrums because he was asked to pay
shipping.
I had another situation where someone who had one of the smaller bags got
upset because the bag had gotten slightly soiled after a year of use, and
actually used a razor blade to cut most of the seams on the bag claiming
that the bag was defective. Knowing how the bags are made I can assure
you that there is no way that five different seams could come apart,
especially since the stiching is done in a way that even if you were to
cut a tread in a seam, it would not "run" and open farther.
For good PR we agreed to have the entire bag restiched, even though it
was obvious that the damage was intentionally done.
The person threw a raving tantrum feeling that he should be entitled to a
new bag, and spread it all over that we were a bunch of crooks.
Rational people deal with complaints in a rational manner, and with
respect and with the thought of resolving whatever problem there is.
Irrational people, who do not have a basis for claim will try to bully
and insult in order to get their way.
Len
--
****************************************
From by Len Caplan of London Imports Ltd.
North American Agent for Fogg Camera Bags
and distributer of James Lager's books
"Leica...An Illustrated History" Vol I & II
516 295-3903 516 295-4835 Fax
****************************************
bea...@primenet.com
:Thank God! It can't happen soon enough, believe me...If "decent" folks
:are people who want to censor others than I would suggest they frequent
:their local church, or Republican fund raiser....
Why the hell did you have to do that , Adam? Here I sit, championing
your words, when out of nowhere, you insert God and politics! Strange
bedfellows in the same sentence from where your gut is, I'd say.
Damn, man, I'm a very conservative Repub., yet am as against Leonard's
protestations as you. In one lousy, short paragraph you kicked me in
the tail!
Leonard Caplan
--
******************************
Posted by Len Caplan of London Imports Ltd.
North American Agent for Fogg Camera Bags
and distributer of James Lager's
"Leica...An Illustrated History" books.
LayneDinLA
When did we abdicate all responsability for our lives to other people?
When was it determined that salespeople should read our minds? When did it
become the duty of perfect strangers on a bulletin board to make sure that
our children are insulated from perfectly harmless words that just happen
to be considered offensive by some?
You want USA, ask for USA. Jeez, I don't expect the guy at B&H to know
what filter size I'm ordering without telling him. Yeah, he's occasionally
"prompt" and rarely asks about the weather. On the other hand, they have
NEVER messed up an order, NEVER bullshitted me about items being in stock
(which they ALWAYS have been, including some very obscure stuff), NEVER
monkeyed with a price and my gear (about 20 seperate orders) ALWAYS
arrived when promised. All this at a price at least 10% less than my local
pro shop.
If you'd rather chit chat, great. Call CWO or shop locally. Me, I know
what I want, order it and save. (Then I chit chat about it on line.)
And if you don't want to read certain words, don't. Everyone must conduct
their lives and raise their children in the manner they see fit. My
guidelines allow for some salty language. America!
Layne...@aol.com (Layne David Dicker)
rev. roy crisman
>I am fairly new to the Internet, and am pretty disenchanted with it based
>on my first look.
>It seems here that any loud mouthed nut can post whatever they want with
>absolutly no accounability.
as they say:
a happy customer will tell one person about your business
an unhappy customer will tell ten
and
an unhappy customer with internet access will tell ten-thousand+
roymeo
Adam
><Yeah, well that point is debatable, you have to watch it with B+H as much
>>> as any other semi-shady NYC mail-order house, ask for USA Warranty
>>> specifically because if there is any way they can sell you their gray
>>> market version, they will.
>
>This is simply not logical. Whether a customer purchases one item or the
>other, our profit margin is unaffected. If you buy the grey item we paid
>500 for and sold to you for 515, or the USA item we paid 540 for and sold
>to you for 555 -- there's no difference to us.
>
>>B+H has very few gray market items --
>
>We have both -- WHY?
>1) Sometimes grey is less expensive to the customer who's watching a
>budget
>2) Sometimes the features differ slightly -- the EOS 5 vs EOS A2E for one
>3) Sometimes the USA distributor runs out of an item & grey's the only way
>it's available
>
><Again, this is debatable - I have heard numerous examples of B&H sending
><people gray market equipment when they asked for stuff with blank, USA
><warranty cards - myself included...
>
>One unfortunate unsubstantiated incident certainly cannot be extrapolated
>to indicate a malicious habit.
>
Well, let's look at this and see what we *can* substantiate, shall we?
From: e...@harlequin.com (Edward Cessna)
Newsgroups: rec.photo.misc
Subject: problems B&H
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 20:29:17 GMT
Organization: Harlequin, Inc.
Message-ID: <eec-300196...@dynamic06.harlequin.com>
I've just started getting into photography. I bought my camera (Nikon
N70) from Camera World and two Nikon lenses from B&H. The people at
Camera World were helpful and polite; B&H was none of this. First, it
took over an hour and multiple phone class to confirm my order and the
person at the verification desk was less than polite.
<<snip>>
To make matter worst with B&H, I received my order today. I open the box
and guess what I didn't find; warranty cards. I call them back on this
and they said that they did their own importing and that warranties would
be handled through them (sounds like the "gray market" I've been reading
about). of course, I wasn't informed of this when I ordered the products.
<<snip>>
Bottom line for me, I will *not* order from B&H again even if it cost me
a little bit more money. It isn't worth the frustration. Dealing with
Camera World is such a pleasure compared to B&H.
From: jx...@Lehigh.EDU
Newsgroups: rec.phhoto.misc
Subject: Re: problems B&H
Date: 31 Jan 1996 20:42:02 -0500
Message-ID: <4ep5pa$1e...@ns3-1.c.Lehigh.EDU>
I had a similar experience with B&H: I purchased a Sony camcorder,
without a warrenty card; a Nikon FM2, without a warrenty card; a Sunpak
flash, without a warrenty card. Henry later told me that the Nikon was a
grey market stuff (but I was not informed of this when I placed the
odrer), but the Sony and the Sunpak should have wattenty cards.
These are just *two* tales of woe I picked up today from rec.photo.misc,
I don't post private e-mail but I have received some from different
people complaining of the same thing.
This, in addition, to my comlaint.
Also, at the mail order survey archive:
http://math.Liu.se/~behal/photo/photographic_mail_order_survey
it becomes clear that out of 262 respondents, 24.8% have had some sort of
problem with B&H (ranging from minor to "avoid" status -<46 minor,15
major,4 avoid>)
While this does not paint the portrait of a really bad mail order place,
it does, I think, substantiate my claim that "you have to watch it with
B&H" and "ask for USA warranty cards."
I am not trying to disparage other photographers from shopping with B&H,
many people have had "no problem" with the service they have received
there. I, and a notable number of others, have had a problem with the
service we have received there, and some of us will never shop there
again.
So Henry, please refrain from trying to portray yourself, and your
organization, as a blemish-free company. Everyone makes mistakes, going
after the people who point them out does not make up for it.
-A.
Adam
>rz...@ix.netcom.com(Rich Zuchowski ) wrote:
>>I think everyone here is mature enough and has enough brains to be able
>>to pick the wheat from the chaff. Personally, I would rather hear
>>everything everyone had to say, rather than stuff that was filtered
>>through a moderator. Let me decide who has a real gripe and who has
>>unrealistic expectations.
>>
>>The freedom for you to say what you want has the price tag of you
>>having to listen to someone else say something you might not want to
>>hear.
>>
>
>A very interesting perspective,
The framers of the Constitution thought so too!
>but IMHO sort of out in left field.
As far <left> as communism?
> Many
>of the individuals on the net and elsewhere are mature individuals, and
>unfortunatly a good many are not.
>
>Sadly, there are many that when sitting safely behind a computer terminal
>develop this feeling of power and express themselves in a way that they
>would never consider doing in a face to face situation....sort of like
>the Wizard of Oz.
And in many respects, that is why the internet is such a good medium for
debate. I gather that you are the type who would like to be able to
intimidate someone who had a comlaint?
>
>The attitude that "let it all fly loose and us mature ones will decide
>what is valid and what is not" is a bunch of garbage.
I suppose we should have a giant information funnel where all the "let it
fly" posts go in - and only the "mature" posts come out? No thanks!
> If there is no
>civility and common courtesy, you will not find very many representatives
>of companies in the business on the newsgroups.
And if the representatives of businesses and companies troll usenet to
attack their protractors, we don't want them here anyway, but if you
insist on doing that, you'll look bad in the end (that's the real
justice here.)...
> Companies like Leica,
>and others are smart to stay off, and stick to safe Web Sites....who
>needs the abuse.
There are many companies who do not get abused, gee, what do you think
that says about them? In mail order, for example, you rarely read
complaints about certain companies and you often read complaints about
others = what does that say for the companies who have numerous
complaints against them? for the companies that never, or, rarely have
complaints against them?
In many threads there are debates about a certain manufacturers product;
if a manufacturer were to read one of these threads/ and listen to what
is being said; the result would be better products. Hmmm...
>
>For some strange reason many people feel that it is their god given right
>to have public access to whomever they want, with the right to vent
>whatever bothers them, with a jury of other computer users determining
>what is valid and what is not.
I think that statement says more about you and your agenda than anything
I could add...
>
>I challange anyone to put themselves in a position in their private lives
>to leave themselves open to abuse and uniformed critisuzm. and both enjoy
>it and come back for more.
First - what do you mean by "uninformed" criticism? Do you mean that when
I buy something from someone, they screw me, I just don't "understand"
what is happening? Yeah right...
Second - if you sell to the public you had better be prepared to deal
with the public. If you can't deal with the public, you're in the wrong
business...
>
>Until such time as manners become the way to go, and language that would
>not be acceptable in front of your children stopped, what you will end up
>with here is a more accessable, but cheaper, and not as good version of
>the Compuserve PhotoForum.
>
>There is a difference between self-policing and no ground rules. IMHO
>eventually what you will end up with is a forum frequented only by thos
>who "are out to get the world" and those with bad manners and agendas.
If that is all you see in this NG then leave, don't let the door hit you
on your way out. Usenet has been around for years, longer than you've
been splashing around in your little wading pool on Compuserve, if it
hasn't been left to the barbarians yet, chances are it won't be any time
soon...
>
>The majority of decent folks will find somewhere else to play, where
>decency and information are the main course, and not just mussle flexing.
Thank God! It can't happen soon enough, believe me...If "decent" folks
are people who want to censor others than I would suggest they frequent
their local church, or Republican fund raiser....
>
>There is a difference between freedom of speach, and decency.
There is a difference, but never has one been predicated on the other...
> I cannot
>take seriously any discussion, other than down at the local pub, where
>"Bastard, Sucks, etc." and the like are acceptable in communication with
>people that you have never met.
Certain words, or language usage are unappealing, yes, but if you can't
handle it I think there is a Senate bill you should be out there
supporting, or something... (isn't there a theatre still playing "The
Last Temptation of Christ" you could picket?)
>
>IMHO a person who would get on a public forum with a title such as Those
>AAA bastards has a serious personality disorder, and does not get high
>marks in social situations. There are other ways to express extreme
>displeasure,
I can see your frown from here...
-A.
William Howse
The looseness of the zoom as far as play doesn't sound right, but 80%
of the push pull zooms I have seen, even right out of the box had some
gravity fall, if you hold them strait up or down.
William
Robert M Atkins
Leonard Caplan <72254...@compuserve.com> wrote:
>swede...@blake.win.net (Swedenborg(Michael)) wrote:
>
>>As for generality quotes like "AAA sucks!" I had experience with
>>them years ago and have to agree with the original poster. They
>>are SO bad that they deserve this comment.
>
>For the record, AAA is Cambridge Camera.
Do you know this for certain? It's very likely since they are the only
stores selling Cambron lenses and they are located very close to each
other by street address. Plus they have similar reputations:-)
However when I got the NYC better buiness bureau reports on these two
guys some years ago they had different owners. Of course that means
nothing except that *technically* they aren't the same store. Practically,
they may still be run by the same people - which I have long suspected
is the case.
Bob Atkins
Lucent Technologies (ex-AT&T) Bell Labs, Murray Hill, NJ
Photographs, EOS FAQ, rec.photo group charters, Usenet Guides and more on
Web page at http://www2.cybernex.net/~eos/index.html
Lance Bledsoe
I find them both to be not only decent and honest, but likeable too.
My $.02 worth.
Lance
--
Lance Bledsoe, President
Avalon Enterprises, Inc. / Bledsoe Photographic, Inc.
9004 Jolly Hollow Drive, Austin, TX 78750 USA, Phone: 512-257-2900
Email: l...@Eden.com URL: http://www.Eden.com/~lwb
--
Lance Bledsoe, President
Avalon Enterprises, Inc. / Bledsoe Photographic, Inc.
9004 Jolly Hollow Drive, Austin, TX 78750 USA, Phone: 512-257-2900
Email: l...@Eden.com URL: http://www.Eden.com/~lwb
BhPhot
Not at all. I'm stating (I don't imply) that without some details it's
impossible to either agree with you and apologize for our error, or
disagree with you and explain the procedure which brought you to this
juncture.
A <private> message to the address in the signature would allow me to
learn the details of this transaction so that it might be brought to
closure at a level more elevated than that to which it has been dragged.
On a personal note, I want to thank ALL the other posters in this thread.
I regret that a conversation in which I was a part was reduced to
invective and vituperation.
Swedenborg(Michael)
consumer fraud by the consumer. I suspected that there is much of
this. It is important to nip it in the bud because who bears the
ultimate cost? Us, the consumer, of course. If consumers are
allowed to damage merchandise to claim a defect and get a refund,
then that is like rewarding cheaters in class.
I am actually opposed to too liberal return policies, too. People
should know what they want before they buy. Unless an
advertisement was wrong (by the manufacturer, not only by the mail
order place) or the merchandise was _really_ defective or an older
model was shipped, I don't think returns should be allowed.
Obviously B&H allows returns, they must do it because the benefits
in terms of increasing sales from legitimate, but nervous,
customers outweighs the risk of "buyer remorse" from uncertain
customers. In such circumstances the customer should at least
absorb the shipping charges each way. Some stores at least impose
a re-stocking fee. I don't know B&H's policy because I have never
had to return merchandise.
Nice to hear about the Fogg bags. You might want to consider
offering them with and without the rubber vapor barrier - if the
limited production permits special orders - I think the long term
risk to cameras from rain is much less than the long term risk
from storage in vapor barrier bags. The cotton muslin inner lining
might help. Do the bags have zip compartments or flap tops like
Domkes? I am still dubious of zip top, vapor barrier bags, while
some people get away with this I have also seen some mildew and
fungus damaged gear come out of zippered water proof nylon bags....
If you sell zip top bags, you may want to caution your clientele
to leave a flap partially unzipped during storage or to use a
dessicant since the bags have a vapor barrier.
Michael
Adam
>
>>
>>Unsubstantiated? You sack of shit! What the hell is that - are you
>>implying that I lied? Your company is the miscreant in this scenario, not
>>I, the customer.
>>
>>I can post order numbers, serial numbers and dates if you want - why you
>>would want to draw more attention to your companies bullshit I do not
>>know.
>>
>>-A.
>>
>
>
>Let us suppose that there was a misunderstanding, and that you did not
>understand that you were getting Grey goods, and they did not understand
>that you wanted USA goods.
>
>You now receive your goods, and relize that it was not what you ordered.
>
>__am I going slow enough for you <s>.
Just slow enough for you to sound like a complete idiot, but continue,
this is fun...
>
>B&H has an unconditional return policy.
>
>You excersize it by returning the item and getting a refund.
>
>Knowing the way they operate, if notified upon receipt, I am 100% certain
>that you would have received an adjustment including your shipping.
>
>So what is your problem?
Before I ordered, I e-mailed B&H's online representative, Henry Posner,
and asked him for a quote on a shopping list of equipment. I specified in
the e-mail that I wanted all of the merchandise I was buying to come with
blank USA warranty cards (is that explicit enough for you?)
I compared the quoted prices to those of a few other mail-order houses
that I have used in the past (and received good service from.) I had
never ordered from B&H, and this being a $2,900 order I wanted to be
careful.
I then decided to give B&H a call, I called up their "800" number and
explained to the person who answered the phone that I had a quote from
Posner, I read off the items and their prices and I told him I wanted it
shipped "2-day" and I wanted blank USA warranty cards with all of the
items.
Some items were back ordered, and to make a long story short, I received
most of my order two weeks later (non of it appeared to have been shipped
"2-day."
All of the items that came had blank USA warranty cards.
One item came two weeks after that, and did not have a blank USA warranty
card, or an instruction manual and the box was crushed *(the Nikon box,
not the shipping box)*. I called B&H and told them I was returning the
item for exchange, and I explained why. The salesman was not apologetic,
nor did he express any hint of surprise. I paid for the return delivery,
with insurance, and made sure it went "priority" mail. I included a
letter explaining why this item was being returned and that I wanted
blank USA warranty cards.
Two weeks later I received the item, this time it had an instruction
manual, but again, no warranty card whatsoever.
I would have returned it a second time, but I had placed the entire order
with a particular trip in mind and with all of the delays and so forth,
the trip was now less than a week away.
When I returned from my trip I emailed Posner and asked if the item in
question was one that came with a warranty card, generally. His reply was
to ask for order numbers, serial numbers and so on, saying he couldn't
asnwer the question without specifics.
I e-mailed him again, explaining what hadd happened, I never got a
response.
>
>Let me guess <s>.
>
Your pathetic attempt at humor is duly noted, your rediculous, and
condescending excuse for a guess ... wrong.
>You are upset because you thought that you were getting something at an
>outragiously low price, and are pretty upset because you really didn't.
I got a good price, If I hadn't liked the quote I would have orderd from
someone else.
>
>It is actually a lost cause trying to communicate with some one with your
>demeanor.
Why? Because when you post your ad hominum attacks I respond by proving
you wrong?
> If one were to have to judge the truth based on the way one
>expresses themself, based on your filthy mouth and immature temper, you
>would have very little credence in my book.
>
>No one forces you to deal with any discount dealer, especially by mail.
In case you haven't been keeping up with the times, "Caveat Emptor" was
abandoned as a customer service policy long ago...
>If you want something for nothing, why don't you go down to your local
>dealer and tell him that you expect a photo item below cost, and throw
>one of your tantrums in front of him and his customers.
Whatever....
>
>There are many unscrupulous dealers out there granted....but B&H is not
>one of them by any stretch of the imagination. If you have any doubts
>about this, why not ask anyone who has had an unresolved problem with
>them to come forward....I think the silence would be deafening.
I am a perrson with an unresolved problem, I have posted a few other
posts by people with such problems, and I posted a link to a site with
evidence supporting that claim that there are other dissatisfied
customers out there too.
>
>Grow up!
>
>
So I can be like you? HA!
>
>
>--
>******************************
>Posted by Len Caplan of London Imports Ltd.
>North American Agent for Fogg Camera Bags
>and distributer of James Lager's
>"Leica...An Illustrated History" books.
>516 295-3903 516 295-4835 Fax
>******************************
>
>
I have never claimed to have had an awful experience with B&H, this whole
imbroglio started when I responded to a post in which a person claimed
that you did not have to worry about getting gray market goods from B&H.
I stated that this was not true, you did have to watch it, when ordering
from B&H.
This whole thread has snow balled out of control with help from people
like you, and an occasional rash post by myself. I can admit that I have
stated at least a few things that were unfair, I have tried to maintain
that there are many people who have received good service from B&H, and
that there are some who have not. I do not wish ill-will for Henry
Posner, or the folks at B&H. I saved money when I ordered from them, so I
did.
You, on the other hand, are an abomination. Why yo continue to post your
lame attacks is beyond my comprehension.
-A.
Adam
>Pardon me, excuse me, hello.
>
>When did we abdicate all responsability for our lives to other people?
>When was it determined that salespeople should read our minds? When did it
>become the duty of perfect strangers on a bulletin board to make sure that
>our children are insulated from perfectly harmless words that just happen
>to be considered offensive by some?
>
>You want USA, ask for USA. Jeez,
I did.
<rest of rant deleted>
-A.
>
>Layne...@aol.com (Layne David Dicker)
Adam
>
>:Thank God! It can't happen soon enough, believe me...If "decent" folks
>:their local church, or Republican fund raiser....
>
>your words, when out of nowhere, you insert God and politics! Strange
>bedfellows in the same sentence from where your gut is, I'd say.
I apologize, I got off-topic in a big way. Actually, there is nothing
wrong with God or the Republican party, I was just surprised to meet such
a wacko on this NG - I assumed he must have wondered over from the
alt.abortion ng's...
>
>Damn, man, I'm a very conservative Repub., yet am as against Leonard's
>protestations as you.
Any American should be, regardless, of political identity or religion (or
lack of religion.)
> In one lousy, short paragraph you kicked me in
>the tail!
I'll bend over so you can kick me back...
-A.
Shyam Parekh
need to worry about it again %]
Shyam
GoB...@netcom.com
In article <4fdg6v$i...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> dsca...@aol.com (DSCAMERA) writes:
>Will you guys stop this. It is costing me a fortune to read all this
>stuff.
Lance Bledsoe
>
>I e-mailed him [Henry Posner @ B&H] again, explaining what had happened,
I seriously doubt that Henry would knowingly risk being flamed on the
net by trying to piss you off. The real problem (if any) with B&H is
probably the fact that they're so big that people other than Henry are
packing your order. I don't know about you, but when I order from B&H
(and the like) I now expect to occasionly have a problem -- but I have
*never* felt as though B&H wouldn't do me right in the end.
Either learn to relax a little, or go to your local dealer -- you may
may a whold lot more, but they'll probably be you good friends -- for
a while. :-) It's your call, you can save big bucks, or you can pay
extra for people who'll tell you what a great guy you are...
DSCAMERA
Adam
Read my post, ONE MORE TIME, and see if it is still UNCLEAR!
> As far
>as I know he got his money back.
You, again, prove that you do not have any idea what you are talking
about.
> There was no hugh outpouring of other
>people who had complaints about B&H.....but actually there were a few
>posts in support.
I also posted a few who had similar problems to mine.
My complaint has been rational from the beginning - your responses to it
have not been.
>
>
>--
>****************************************
>From by Len Caplan of London Imports Ltd.
>North American Agent for Fogg Camera Bags
>and distributer of James Lager's books
>"Leica...An Illustrated History" Vol I & II
>516 295-3903 516 295-4835 Fax
>****************************************
>
>
I had actually been considering a Fogg bag for a Leica I am ordering in
March, you sir are the reason I will find something esle to put that
camera in.
-A.
George Beinhorn
World of Oregon for 10 years, with uniformly good experiences. I
called to check an order status yesterday, told them my last name, and
within 10 seconds learned that it had been shipped the day before and
that I would receive it tomorrow. Besides, they're much more pleasant
to deal with than others.
---
Quiet cliffs above
Swirl of twigs and mud below
And this old struggling runner in between
George Beinhorn
gbe...@gv.net
Send e-mail for a free FAQ on "Marathons Without Walls," "How to Run Your First 50-Miler,"
"Secrets of the Wily Old Ultrarunners," "Optimize Your Training with Body Type Analysis," etc.
WmHearn
Bill Hearn
Leonard Caplan
>
>My complaint has been rational from the beginning - your responses to it
>have not been.>>
ROFLBC (rolling on floor laughing, bighting carpet)
May I suggest that you take a vote? <GBG>
>I had actually been considering a Fogg bag for a Leica I am ordering in
>March, you sir are the reason I will find something esle to put that
>camera in.>>
It would be greatly appreciated if you don't.
1)I would not want to have to deal with you in the event of a problem.
2)Most buyers of the bag have class and style...neither of these traits
seem to be your strong suit.
3)I would not want any of my Dealers having to deal with you.
4)The bags are not price competitive anyway, so there is no way that you
would be interested.
5)You probably would not be attracted to them anyway since they are
elegant and understated.
PS-Please do not buy Jim's books either <s>.
James Lew
with Executive? I ordered from them twice and both times, they
shipped an inferior item. Of course, they didn't have the decency
to charge the price of the inferior item to my credit card. When
I call back to complain, the representative told me that I could
just return the item and I would be reimbursed for the shipping,
which, of course, I never got. This happened a while ago and I
have no intentions of ever ordering from them again. I just like
to know what is the reputation of Executive and any other mail
order places.
LayneDinLA
Layne
/While we're on this subject, has anyone out there had a bad experience
/with Executive? I ordered from them twice and both times, they
/shipped an inferior item. Of course, they didn't have the decency
/to charge the price of the inferior item to my credit card.//
Layne...@aol.com (Layne David Dicker)
Adam
>
>>
>>My complaint has been rational from the beginning - your responses to it
>>have not been.>>
>
>
>May I suggest that you take a vote? <GBG>
Any time! I wonder if you have bothered to get your facts straight yet,
or are just continuing to babble paradoxically at a whim.
>
>>I had actually been considering a Fogg bag for a Leica I am ordering in
>>March, you sir are the reason I will find something esle to put that
>>camera in.>>
>
>It would be greatly appreciated if you don't.
>
>1)I would not want to have to deal with you in the event of a problem.
>
>2)Most buyers of the bag have class and style...neither of these traits
>seem to be your strong suit.
>
>3)I would not want any of my Dealers having to deal with you.
>
>4)The bags are not price competitive anyway, so there is no way that you
>would be interested.
>
>5)You probably would not be attracted to them anyway since they are
>elegant and understated.
>
>
>PS-Please do not buy Jim's books either <s>.
>
Exccellent - good job I love this! I will save it and re-post it
occasionally for all who are considering a fogg bag - in fact, there is a
discussion on the leica mail-list right now about them. Perhaps the good
people on that list would like to read your "customer disservice"
tirades.
-A.
Adam
>From my dealings and discussions with both Len Caplan and Henry Posner,
>I find them both to be not only decent and honest, but likeable too.
>
>My $.02 worth.
>
>Lance
Well, I'd have to say, then, that the types of people you find friendly
(with Henry as an exception,) are frightening. Where do you hang out, at
biker bars?
-A.
Rich Miller
Let's cut this thread. It has run its course.
Rich Miller
Adam
>In article <4fdceb$q...@news2.aimnet.com>, Adam <ha...@hugo.curbio.com> wrote:
>>
>
>
>net by trying to piss you off. The real problem (if any) with B&H is
>probably the fact that they're so big that people other than Henry are
>packing your order. I don't know about you, but when I order from B&H
>(and the like) I now expect to occasionly have a problem -- but I have
>*never* felt as though B&H wouldn't do me right in the end.
>
I agree - and I was satisfied to let them keep the meager amount of money
in question and go on with my life, but it's when I responded to someone
elses post about "not having to worry with B&H" that I got into trouble.
It seems that if you attack AAA, or Abe's of Maine that no body cares but
if you state that you have to be as careful with B&H as with many other
dealers when it comes to gray market, you've caused grave harm to lots of
people. Perhaps the situation you describe is a possible explanation for
this - that things are busy at B&H, I believe that no ill-will is
intended from them.
This whole thread has spiraled out of control and the funny part is that
Henry & I have already worked out an agreement. I have maitained, and
will continue to do so, that B&H provides good service to a lot of
people.
I also maintain that the problems I had were not *my* fault, as one
Leonard Caplan seems to think.
I did not think what I experienced with B&H was a big deal, it was turned
into one by people who didn't want to read the facts, or stick to the
topic - but instead wanted to blindly defend something that wasn't really
under attack.
I made a mistake when I used an expletive in reference to what I
mistakenly regarded as mistreatment by Henry, in this thread, but I have
apologized and will again of need be.
>Either learn to relax a little, or go to your local dealer -- you may
>may a whold lot more, but they'll probably be you good friends -- for
>a while. :-) It's your call, you can save big bucks, or you can pay
>extra for people who'll tell you what a great guy you are...
>
>Lance
>
I am a very relaxed person, and I have no problem sticking to my guns no
matter how many people are in my face (*if* I know I am right, if I have
any doubts I keep quiet.)
I don't like to pay more than I have to, and so have used mail order for
a long time - I will continue to order from catalogues and save money but
I will *never* edit my posts for fear of offending someone's
sensibilities....
>
>--
> Lance Bledsoe, President
> Avalon Enterprises, Inc. / Bledsoe Photographic, Inc.
> 9004 Jolly Hollow Drive, Austin, TX 78750 USA, Phone: 512-257-2900
> Email: l...@Eden.com URL: http://www.Eden.com/~lwb
So long, and thanks for the list of retailers, manufacturers and others
on-line - a great resource.
-A.
BhPhot
>>I never got a response.
>I seriously doubt that Henry would knowingly risk being flamed on the
>net by trying to piss you off.
In fact, the first attempts to identify this transaction were unsuccessful
because the person who placed the original post neglected to identify the
name used to make the purchase. Now that I have finally been able to
obtain this information from him, I'll be able to conclude this issue
privately, via e-mail, where it belongs.
Robert Jr.
>Knowing the way they operate, if notified upon receipt, I am 100% certain
>that you would have received an adjustment including your shipping.
I've never known B&H to reimburse for shipping - but maybe there's
some secret password I don't know about. I just consider that part
of the cost of doing business with photo mail order companies.
-Rob Whitestone - - - - - - - - - - - - - - r...@sam.dt.navy.mil
Dennis Andrews
Nobody, in or out of the phot industry, reimberses for shipping. Check
their return policy statements; they always say "less shipping".
--
Dennis Andrews
Leonard Caplan
>In rec.photo.equipment.35mm, Leonard Caplan <72254...@compuserve.com> writes:
>>Knowing the way they operate, if notified upon receipt, I am 100% certain
>>that you would have received an adjustment including your shipping.
>
>I've never known B&H to reimburse for shipping - but maybe there's
>some secret password I don't know about. I just consider that part
>of the cost of doing business with photo mail order companies.
>
>-Rob Whitestone - - - - - - - - - - - - - - r...@sam.dt.navy.mil
>
The comment was made by me in the context of that if there was an error
made where, in this case what was ordered was not shipped but instead
something else was, I am sure they would return the shipping charge, as
any reputable dealer would,
This is not the same as buying something and not wanting it and returning
it, or buying used and having different outlooks as to the condition.
Dan J. Declerck
: l...@news.eden.com (Lance Bledsoe) wrote:
: >From my dealings and discussions with both Len Caplan and Henry Posner,
: >I find them both to be not only decent and honest, but likeable too.
: >
: >My $.02 worth.
: >
: >Lance
: Well, I'd have to say, then, that the types of people you find friendly
: (with Henry as an exception,) are frightening. Where do you hang out, at
: biker bars?
I do, and I have a lot of friends whom also do. We tend to buy Canon cameras,
too.
Bags?? too anal retentive for most of us. A good motorcycle tank or saddle bag
with it's requisite padding is good enough!
Some of us wonder if the photographic community could get off it's
(perceived) high horse long enough to tell some of us "bikers" a good place
to get a clamp-mount for our SLR's. It would make an excellent way to take
photos on the road without stopping.
BTW: for the humor-impaired, this post may contain a pun or two!
-Dan
: >
: >--
: > Lance Bledsoe, President
: > Avalon Enterprises, Inc. / Bledsoe Photographic, Inc.
: > 9004 Jolly Hollow Drive, Austin, TX 78750 USA, Phone: 512-257-2900
: > Email: l...@Eden.com URL: http://www.Eden.com/~lwb
: >--
: > Lance Bledsoe, President
: > Avalon Enterprises, Inc. / Bledsoe Photographic, Inc.
: > 9004 Jolly Hollow Drive, Austin, TX 78750 USA, Phone: 512-257-2900
: > Email: l...@Eden.com URL: http://www.Eden.com/~lwb
--
=> Dan DeClerck | EMAIL: decl...@cig.mot.com <=
=> Motorola Cellular CSD | <=
=>"The truth to CDMA... is spreading" | Phone: (847) 632-4596 <=
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
LayneDinLA
Yes, their phone system is a bit much, but the truth is that it only took
about 30 seconds to get to where I wanted to be. Hell, they're paying for
the call (800 number) so who am I to complain.
Yes, I was put on hold - for about 5 seconds.
I told the guy right up front that I was just getting a price quote. I go
no groan, no attitude, no abruptness. He was pleasant and jovial.
When he gave me the quote he told me that is was "available with B&H
warranty only", I said "You mean it's the 'G' word" and he joked back with
me. Mind you, he volunteered this info.
I thanked him and he wished me "a good one." No sales pressure.
I've never bought a gray item before, but I might now.
Layne
Layne...@aol.com (Layne David Dicker)
Rich Zuchowski
would back it up themselves. They've been around long enough and had
enough good marks on their score sheet that I would feel comfortable
about it. When I got my N90s, it came with a USA warranty card but B&H
also offered a 7 year extended warranty for something like $35 or so.
Since this camera is heavily electronic, I felt it was a good
investment.
Rich Zuchowski
In <4g1o03$j...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> layne...@aol.com (LayneDinLA)
writes: