Loft into a studio, advice please
John
I'm seriously considering converting our loft to a studio, initially for my
own use but with a *view* to starting off on a serious amateur /
semi-professional basis. In your experience what would be the minimum size
for a studio that could serve this function, assuming I was going to
concentrate on portraits (possibly small family groups) My loft could fairly
easily be converted into a room about 13 feet by 8 feet but much more that
would involve serious (expensive!) roof modifications.
Also given that it's a big black space at present ... what about the light
and window aspect of the studio ... I was considering large roof-lights
(although theoretically I could have windows to 3 sides....What's best ?
Any thoughts, experience or words of wisdom are very welcome, Many thanks
John
Ed
taper as they go up?
John
"Ed" <EdE...@NetZero.MyPants.com> wrote in message
news:v1m8874...@corp.supernews.com...
> How high is the ceiling? Is it a completely square room, or do the walls
> taper as they go up?
Ah yes, sorry ...
About 8 feet on one side, tapering down to 6 feet (and eventually less) on
the other.
John
Michael Quack
John says...
> I'm seriously considering converting our loft to a studio,
http://www.photoquack.de/tutorials/diylights.htm
> a room about 13 feet by 8 feet
That is *very* little to start with. You lose a little
for the background cloth or backdrop paper, you don't
always press your back against the back wall and you
certainly want to put your lights somewhere. Last but
not least you don't want to nail your subjects to the
wall.
Portraits - close but possible.
Groups? No way.
Even couples won't work.
> Also given that it's a big black space at present ...
Paint walls white to bounce lights off of them.
I'd suggest you get something bigger.
My first studio (which was incredibly small) was already
20 x 6 feet. And I kept cursing the limitations.
--
Michael Quack <mic...@photoquack.de>
Fast, reliable, cheap. Pick any two of the three.
Dennis O'Connor
have some fun... He already has the loft and a squirt of paint will be far
less than renting a bigger space... Certainly if he arranges it the long way
across and keeps the backdrop close to the wall he can do portraits and
couples nicely... Don't impose pro standards on someone who wants to do fun
photography...
I'd say go for it, John.. Hold down the expenses until you see if the space
works for you... Paper on the floor, white paint on the walls and ceiling,
and a small lighting kit... Actually, making one wall section a shallow
light box and just using reflectors for modeling will allow a good bit of
photography without spending a bundle...
Denny
"Michael Quack" <mic...@photoquack.de> wrote in message
news:MPG.188560372...@news.cis.dfn.de...
Dennis O'Connor
Pity...
"John" <john...@virgin.net> wrote in message
news:avf9hq$eu140$1...@ID-164836.news.dfncis.de...
David Littlewood
use as a studio or darkroom, some thoughts may be helpful. I assume from
your address that you are in the UK, like me, but if not please bear in
mind the possible differences in regulations.
If you have any expectations of inviting customers into the loft room, I
strongly suggest you do not rely on a do-it-yourself bodge; the
safety/third party liability risks are just too horrible.
Despite having the experience of self-building a large single-storey
extension 20 years ago, I concluded that for a decent loft job we needed
it doing professionally. We used Econoloft; it ended up costing us over
£30k, a lot more than the initial estimates, but we did get (mostly) a
good job. The size of the floor joists needed to meet Building
Regulations (you will need BR approval even if you do it yourself) was
enormous, and it lifted the floor by about 8 inches; this meant the roof
had to be raised a similar amount. We also got a professionally made
staircase, which makes all the difference (I never thought they would
manage it in the space but it looks like it was built in with the
house).
What we got from this was a large room (about 20 x 10 ft) plus a shower
room. Putting a water supply up there meant the existing header tank no
longer worked, so we had to go to a pressurised hot water tank. This
works OK, but cost quite a lot (you can see, I think, how the costs
built up). It's a very nice studio apartment which my daughter was very
pleased to move into; I got her bedroom to use as an office twice the
size of the tiny room I used previously. The loft room would make a very
nice studio/darkroom, and I may just get my hands on it when daughter
leaves home (but my wife has designs of her own on it!).
There were a number of irritating things which, with hindsight, I should
have been firmer about. They used unpainted timber for the soffits;
these will clearly be impossible to paint without very expensive
scaffolding, and I should have insisted on uPVC. The electrical wiring
was rather sloppily done. If you go ahead, also make sure you get twice
as many sockets fitted as you think you need, as putting more in
afterwards will be 10 times harder.
I don't know whether this is at all helpful for you, but if I can help
on any more specific questions I will try to do so. Sorry if this
doesn't help much on the specific photographic points though.
--
David Littlewood
John
"David Littlewood" <da...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:je5uPYCx...@dlittlewood.demon.co.uk...
Hi David
Yes, that's great advice !
You've REALLY scared me on the price though.
I was going to get it professionally done, with a small (proper) staircase
... but I had been thinking around the 10-12k mark.
Ah well, at least when the different companies come round next week it wont
be QUITE so much of a shock.
BTW Good idea on the shower-room, it probably adds value to the house. We've
already got a high pressure water system so I'll give it some thought and I
agree with you on the electrics (we had out kitchen re-fitted and I now 16
sockets in there!!!)
Many thanks
John
John
"Dennis O'Connor" <doco...@chartermi.net> wrote in message
news:v1mj6db...@corp.supernews.com...
> Hmmm, after I advise you to go for it, you mention that little detail...
> Pity...
*Most* of the room will have 8 feet (or more ) for a ceiling Dennis.
..that's not too tragic is it ?
Cheers
John
David Littlewood
<john...@virgin.net> writes
>
>
>Hi David
>
>Yes, that's great advice !
>You've REALLY scared me on the price though.
>I was going to get it professionally done, with a small (proper) staircase
>... but I had been thinking around the 10-12k mark.
>Ah well, at least when the different companies come round next week it wont
>be QUITE so much of a shock.
>BTW Good idea on the shower-room, it probably adds value to the house. We've
>already got a high pressure water system so I'll give it some thought and I
>agree with you on the electrics (we had out kitchen re-fitted and I now 16
>sockets in there!!!)
>
custom-made oak staircase spindles to match the existing stairs) and it
was quite a bit bigger than yours. It has 3 windows ( a rooflight and 2
dormers) and of course you would not require as much plumbing if you
have the pressure system already. But think 20k and you won't be out by
more than a factor of 2 (!).
One thing to consider, if you intend to have a significant amount of
business use, is to use the loft for a bedroom or living room, and use
one of the lower rooms for the "surgery".
Whereabouts do you live, John?
--
David Littlewood
Stefan Patric
> Hi all
>
> I'm seriously considering converting our loft to a studio, initially
> for my own use but with a *view* to starting off on a serious
> amateur / semi-professional basis. In your experience what would be
> the minimum size for a studio that could serve this function,
> assuming I was going to concentrate on portraits (possibly small
> family groups) My loft could fairly easily be converted into a room
> about 13 feet by 8 feet but much more that would involve serious
> (expensive!) roof modifications.
>
> Also given that it's a big black space at present ... what about the
> light and window aspect of the studio ... I was considering large
> roof-lights (although theoretically I could have windows to 3
> sides....What's best ?
Your loft (I'm assuming it has a sloped ceiling -- the underside of
the roof?) would be more suitable for a photo darkroom, but it is
possible to use it as a portrait studio to LEARN with, but just
bearly.
I once used a 12 x 15 foot room with a flat 8 foot ceiling as a
studio. It was a very, very tight fit, but doable. The problem with
your space will be that sloped ceiling, which will restrict the
placement of lights as well as how high they can be put. For a
sitting subject, you'll need 6 feet minimum height (more would be
better) for the main light about 45 degrees off axis from the
subject-camera line.
As to linear working distance: you'll want the subject at least 4 to
5 feet in front of the background to allow it go out of focus and to
allow space for background and hair lights. The subject to camera
distance for a loosely framed head and shoulders portrait with a 85mm
lens is going to be about 7 to 8 feet. So, 4 feet off the background
+ 7 camera distance = 11. Plus, you'll need an additional 3 feet
minimum behind the camera for the photographer. So, 14 feet total.
Like I said: very, very tight.
--
Stefan Patric
too...@yahoo.com
Bandicoot
I won't repeat what has already been said, which is all good advice.
So: for a studio you probably want alll of that space, however, a second
bathroom adds more to the value of your house than any other 'home
improvement' (I'm told). In that case, I'd consider getting planning
permission (if needed) and building approval for one even if you don't
actually have it built, you could also get the plumbing put in and just left
behind a panel in the wall where it can easily be connected up later. That
way, if you sell the house you have the option of turning your studio into
an extra bedroom with an ensuite at that time, which will add a lot more
value than a studio will. Or, you can sell it 'as is' but show people that
it is all 'ready' for them to make it into a bedroom + bathroom however they
please.
Second point: you asked about windows. North. Failing that, East. These
give you (in the Northern hemisphere) the most diffused natural light, which
can be very flattering: North window plus one reflector can make very nice
lighting for portraits and for still life. Avoid West (and preferably avoid
South) strong directional light is usually not 'where you want it' and the
colours of evening light from the West will mix badly with flash (can be
attractive, but isn't controlled, which is half the point of having a
studio.)
Whatever direction the windows face, sometimes you won't want the light they
contribute, so get good blackout curtains (which can be used with South &
West windows too, if that is all you can get.) For the same reason, while
you do want white walls and ceiling, sometimes - especially in a smaller
space - you may not want the reflection they will contribute. Curtain track
high on the wall will let you drag round some black fabric to block the
reflections when you want to.
Have fun.
Peter
John
"Bandicoot" <"insert_handle_here"@techemail.com> wrote in message
news:104198700...@despina.uk.clara.net...
Thanks Peter
Good advice, especially about the window direction !
Cheers
John
John
"Stefan Patric" <too...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4RJS9.541$hG5.1...@news1.west.cox.net...
> Your loft (I'm assuming it has a sloped ceiling -- the underside of
> the roof?) would be more suitable for a photo darkroom, but it is
> possible to use it as a portrait studio to LEARN with, but just
> bearly.
>
> I once used a 12 x 15 foot room with a flat 8 foot ceiling as a
> studio. It was a very, very tight fit, but doable. The problem with
> your space will be that sloped ceiling, which will restrict the
> placement of lights as well as how high they can be put. For a
> sitting subject, you'll need 6 feet minimum height (more would be
> better) for the main light about 45 degrees off axis from the
> subject-camera line.
>
> As to linear working distance: you'll want the subject at least 4 to
> 5 feet in front of the background to allow it go out of focus and to
> allow space for background and hair lights. The subject to camera
> distance for a loosely framed head and shoulders portrait with a 85mm
> lens is going to be about 7 to 8 feet. So, 4 feet off the background
> + 7 camera distance = 11. Plus, you'll need an additional 3 feet
> minimum behind the camera for the photographer. So, 14 feet total.
>
> Like I said: very, very tight.
>
>
> --
> Stefan Patric
> too...@yahoo.com
Thanks Stefan
Yes, *tight* were my initial thoughts too.
I think I'll explore the possibility of structural changes to make it
longer, or do as you say and concentrate my efforts on learning from there.
Cheers
John
John
(snipped)
> One thing to consider, if you intend to have a significant amount of
> business use, is to use the loft for a bedroom or living room, and use
> one of the lower rooms for the "surgery".
Hi David
Yes, that's what I'm doing at the moment. I have the spare bedroom (about
12x12) for my computer and so on, but I'll be losing that shortly (family)
and it's got terrible light anyway. Pretty much all the rooms are between 12
and 13 feet in length, with the exception of the lounge ... and I think a
divorce would be on the cards if I tried to pinch that room :-)
> Whereabouts do you live, John?
Southampton (UK)
Cheers
John
Michael Quack
Dennis O'Connor says...
> Ummm Michael, old fella, you're being a bit negative, eh....
Just experience. I have had small places as well,
and I know the limitations. But even my smallest
place, perceived as a dog house was bigger than
what he has.
His ceiling height makes it impossible to place
a hairlight over the head of anybody not sitting.
> Don't impose pro standards on someone who wants
> to do fun photography...
He was the one to say the magic word
"semi-professional".....
Michael Quack
John says...
> *Most* of the room will have 8 feet (or more )
> for a ceiling Dennis.
> ..that's not too tragic is it ?
This makes a hairlight next to impossible, unless
your subjects are sitting, and it leaves no room for
the top mechanics of a backdrop holder for rolls.
Stand your girlfriend as you would pose a model later,
put your camera on a tripod and mark what you see in
the finder, when going full figure. Maybe try to fake
a "lamp" with a wardrobe post, not for lighting but for
positioning and room requirements testing.
If what you find leaves room for roll mounts and your
lamp stand dummy does not interfere with your image,
then you might have a chance.
But bear in mind that you now may think that there are
simply things that you won't do then. Your clients
will nevertheless want them.
Hubba Hubba
max 22' X 16' (tapering). I painted it white 1. to bounce light 2. to make
it look bigger !!
however I am re-considering this and have seen advice also that studios
should be painted matt black to absorb light !!! Any ideas, I suspect it has
to do with space/reflectors etc....
"> Paint walls white to bounce lights off of them.
>
Jeannie
news:avgq4r$65r$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk...
> I've seen a few differing posts of advice on studio colours....mine is
about
> max 22' X 16' (tapering). I painted it white 1. to bounce light 2. to make
> it look bigger !!
> however I am re-considering this and have seen advice also that studios
> should be painted matt black to absorb light !!! Any ideas, I suspect it
has
> to do with space/reflectors etc....
You can always put up black curtains against the walls.
I'm guessing it's harder to create nice shadows in an all-white room than it
is to create nice light in an all-black room.
--
Jeannie
E-mail: jeannie at talisweb dot see oh em
Web: http://www.moonflour.com
teflon
tripod, etc, crammed into a small, and possibly airless space. That equals
tension, which doesn't create the atmosphere for a pleasing experience.
How about the clients own home? Do you know of a temporary space that's
available at week-ends maybe? Local Community Centre perhaps, or at work?
Anywhere that has power, and space. Let's not forget outside locations.
The best place for 'the home studio' is a decent sized cupboard as near to
the car as possible. Let's face it. You don't want a big sweat on after
ferrying all your stuff down from the loft to the car, and back again.
Good luck in whatever you do.
David Littlewood
<john...@virgin.net> writes
--
David Littlewood
Hubba Hubba
curtain rails .....
"Jeannie" <see.message.b...@address.c0m> wrote in message
news:DsSS9.734$X7.3...@twister.socal.rr.com...
Paul Repacholi
> I'm seriously considering converting our loft to a studio, initially
> for my own use but with a *view* to starting off on a serious
> amateur / semi-professional basis. In your experience what would be
> the minimum size for a studio that could serve this function,
> assuming I was going to concentrate on portraits (possibly small
> family groups) My loft could fairly easily be converted into a room
> about 13 feet by 8 feet but much more that would involve serious
> (expensive!) roof modifications.
Have you done a back of the envelope sanity check on this?
Allow 1M for the back drop and backlights etc, 1M to the subject.
With a 100 odd lens you will want to be 3-4M from the subject for a
full length shot. So that is ALL you 13' totally gone and then some!
From experience, for every foot of `work space' you need at least that
much behind, almost that much to each side, and 1 1/2 to twice in
front. Add extra if you want fancy lighting or odd stuff.
For height, well 30' would not go astray! And before you scream about
that, draw it out, and consider a large subject with a WA lens, like
about a 28. Then all lights over the work area...
About the only way you can economise on the size of a studio is to
have a) lots of pain, or b) keep to small subjects. 13x8 would be
enough for 2 product table set for small to medium items...
--
Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd.,
+61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda.
West Australia 6076
comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot
Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.
Michael Quack
Hubba Hubba says...
> I've seen a few differing posts of advice on studio colours....
Depends on what you do. For people I'd do nothing but white,
for stillife and products nothing but black. It is easier
to set up a few black flags or curtains instead of rigging
up white reflectors
> however I am re-considering this and have seen advice also
> that studios should be painted matt black to absorb light !!!
For products this is right, because you need to control
all reflections yourself. For people the extra fill from
white walls is more flattering, in a black studio portraits
tend to turn out too harsh.
And in the current case there is simply not enough room
to place a softbox, so he needs to bounce his light off
the walls.
Dallas
If it isn't that expensive, how about hanging custom sized venetian blinds
across the full length of the walls. One side black, the other white. You
have the best of both worlds reflection-wise. Actually, these don't even
need to be two coloured, just buy black blinds and paint the walls white.
When you want white to bounce off roll the blinds up. When you want black
roll them down. Come to think of it, the blinds don't even need to be
venetian, just get those solid ones.
--
Dallas
www.imageunlimited.co.za
"Hubba Hubba" <(nospam)at...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
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