[review] "The Adobe Photoshop CS4 Book for Digital Photographers" by Scott Kelby
Troy Piggins
forums, I decided so splurge and buy a couple of books. I love
reading novels, but for some reason for technical information
I've always preferred online mailing lists, forums, and USENET
newsgroups.
Splashed out and bought CS4 Photoshop and Lightroom 2 recently,
and figured they might be worth having some books to accompany
them. Decided on "The Adobe Photoshop CS4 Book for Digital
Photographers" by Scott Kelby and "The Adobe Photoshop Lightroom
2 Book: The Complete Guide for Photographers" by Martin Evening.
Man, Kelby has so many books out. I know he's "the PS go-to
author", but you have to wonder if reputation precedes and if
there's actually better PS books out there but they get drowned
out by Kelby overload...
Well, my fears have been realised.
Books received quite promptly from Amazon. Good service, first
time I've dealt with them. But...
The Kelby book. Very disappointed. The layout of the pages
themselves is quite appealing at first glance, plenty of images
to display what he's talking about. But when I think about it,
that's one thing that annoys me about it. Too many images. I
mean, if he's giving a step by step on something, does he really
need to give an image to show him clicking the menu button
described in the text? Waste of space where he could add more
text/info/tips.
That brings me to my next annoyance. Every new chapter title
takes up 2 full pages. One shows a photo, the other some text.
The text is the chapter title, then the rest is the explanation
of how he came up with his "clever" chapter title. He seems to
have this thing where his chapter titles are songs or movies or
whatever that have words or something relevant to what that
chapter is really about. eg there's a chapter on Bridge so he
calls it "London Bridge". That's fine, cute, whatever, but we
don't need a page explaining why you called it that. We get it.
Just put a paragraph about this little nuance in your intro or
something and give us more meat in the content of the book.
Next point. Give the man meat. I bought this book wanting to
learn uber-tips from the Photoshop guru. But in reality, it looks
to me like he's taken the easy road. Quite a few pages (like 10
or so) on the unsharp mask. Not really cool things like using the
unsharp mask with edge masking or surface masking or anything,
just 10 (or so) pages on different combinations of amount,
radius, and threshold.
Some of the cooler tips he's posted actually come from "friends"
of his showing him the tip. I like that he's passed it on, and
has acknowledged his mates, but I want to see more of his cool
stuff. I don't reckon he's sharing it all. Can't be.
The first third or so of the book talks only about Bridge and
Camera Raw. Too much. Reckon you could split the book up, have
another thinner book on those, or each of them, sell them
cheaper. Gimme a book on CS4 Photoshop please, not the other
stuff, that's why I got Lightroom.
Summary - I reckon the title should contain the word "Beginners"
in it. I'm not pro PS user, only had it for a couple of months.
But I picked up much of what was in the book by playing with it
and reading some online sites.
I'll keep the book as a reference for some of the tips in there,
but reckon if I tore out the pages that contained stuff that was
either obvious or wasted space, I wouldn't be left with much
inside the covers.
I'm just starting the Lightroom book, but initial flick through
looks like it goes into much more detail, which is what I want.
--
Troy Piggins
tony cooper
<usene...@piggo.com> wrote:
>After a little deliberation, reading reviews, trawling a few
>forums, I decided so splurge and buy a couple of books. I love
>reading novels, but for some reason for technical information
>I've always preferred online mailing lists, forums, and USENET
>newsgroups.
>
>Splashed out and bought CS4 Photoshop and Lightroom 2 recently,
>and figured they might be worth having some books to accompany
>them. Decided on "The Adobe Photoshop CS4 Book for Digital
>Photographers" by Scott Kelby and "The Adobe Photoshop Lightroom
>2 Book: The Complete Guide for Photographers" by Martin Evening.
>
>Man, Kelby has so many books out. I know he's "the PS go-to
>author", but you have to wonder if reputation precedes and if
>there's actually better PS books out there but they get drowned
>out by Kelby overload...
>
>Well, my fears have been realised.
>
I have the Kelby book on CS4 and I also have Kelby's book on
Lightroom2. I found both quite helpful. I like his style. I do
agree with some of your comments about not enough meat in some areas.
I had an older book on one of the earlier versions of Photoshop that
had the word "Bible" in the title. (I loaned it to someone, they
never returned it, and I didn't press to get it back) Great, huge,
thick book but godawful boring to work through. I got bogged down
with too much meat. At least Kelby's slick style lets you move
through the book.
I'm a hands-on learner. Kelby may skim over some areas, but that
works for me. He'll get me interested in something and I start
experimenting and working it out for myself.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Better Info
wrote:
>After a little deliberation, reading reviews, trawling a few
Should have just downloaded them from alt.binaries.e-books.technical
instead of wasting all that expense and time.
They are both often uploaded, along with many other PS tutorial and tips
books. None of which are worth buying. I've browsed or read large parts of
the PDF versions, then promptly deleted them. Those useless 30 or 50 megs
were wasting valuable terabyte drive space. Photography instructional books
are written by failed photographers.
Troy Piggins
>>either obvious or wasted space, I wouldn't be left with much
>>inside the covers.
>>
>>I'm just starting the Lightroom book, but initial flick through
>>looks like it goes into much more detail, which is what I want.
>
> Should have just downloaded them from alt.binaries.e-books.technical
> instead of wasting all that expense and time.
>
> They are both often uploaded, along with many other PS tutorial and tips
> books. None of which are worth buying. I've browsed or read large parts of
> the PDF versions, then promptly deleted them. Those useless 30 or 50 megs
> were wasting valuable terabyte drive space. Photography instructional books
> are written by failed photographers.
Thanks for your thoughts. I have a couple of blanket statements
like that too.
"Piracy is stealing."
"Anonymous posts on USENET are made by people too afraid to take
responsibility for their words."
"The harshest criticisms on USENET come from failed
photographers."
--
Troy Piggins
tony cooper
wrote:
> Photography instructional books
>are written by failed photographers.
Is yours listed on Amazon?
Better Info
<tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Better Info <bi...@someisp.net>
I have no need to try to pawn off bad photography bounded in an
instructional book to try to make all that wasted time and effort with a
camera worth it. My photography stands on its own merit. I don't have to
trick anyone into buying it.
Troy Piggins
What if everyone was downloading your photography for free off
binary groups when you were trying to sell it?
PS - I didn't pay to see his photography, I paid for his
photoshop expertise. I just reckon I didn't get all of it.
--
Troy Piggins
Better Info
wrote:
>* Better Info wrote :
>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:08:45 -0500, tony cooper
>> <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Better Info <bi...@someisp.net>
>>
>> I have no need to try to pawn off bad photography bounded in an
>> instructional book to try to make all that wasted time and effort with a
>> camera worth it. My photography stands on its own merit. I don't have to
>> trick anyone into buying it.
>
>What if everyone was downloading your photography for free off
>binary groups when you were trying to sell it?
Then I stop selling it publicly, just as I have for that very reason.
They're now by private sale only, in limited editions. It's not my loss,
it's everyone else's loss. I could care less if I sell any more of my
photography. I already earned more than I can ever use in a lifetime.
Judging by those photography instructional books, the photography world
would be a much better place if those authors pulled their books
permanently. They're not even worth stealing. If it ain't worth stealing,
it sure as hell ain't worth buying.
Ray Fischer
>I have no need to try to pawn off bad photography bounded in an
>instructional book to try to make all that wasted time and effort with a
>camera worth it.
You're going to steal the book instead?
> My photography stands on its own merit.
Uh, no, it doesn't.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
>On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:33:35 +1000, Troy Piggins <usene...@piggo.com>
>wrote:
>
>>* Better Info wrote :
>>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:08:45 -0500, tony cooper
>>> <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Better Info <bi...@someisp.net>
>>>
>>> I have no need to try to pawn off bad photography bounded in an
>>> instructional book to try to make all that wasted time and effort with a
>>> camera worth it. My photography stands on its own merit. I don't have to
>>> trick anyone into buying it.
>>
>>What if everyone was downloading your photography for free off
>>binary groups when you were trying to sell it?
>
>Then I stop selling it publicly, just as I have for that very reason.
>They're now by private sale only, in limited editions.
Shrug. How hard is it to duplicate "limited" edition photos?
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Phred
[snip]
> I already earned more than I can ever use in a lifetime.
Bullshit!
Cheers, Phred.
--
ppnerk...@THISyahoo.com.INVALID
Matt Clara
news:qil9g5d7kpvgdeklg...@4ax.com...
Yeah, like Ansel Adams. lol Oh man, you've got me in stitches again!
Atheist Chaplain
Douggie ??
--
[This comment is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Church of
Scientology International]
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your
Christ." Gandhi
Savageduck
> "Better Info" <bi...@someisp.net> wrote in message
> news:udp9g51gls0app9dc...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:33:35 +1000, Troy Piggins <usene...@piggo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> * Better Info wrote :
>>>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:08:45 -0500, tony cooper
>>>> <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Better Info <bi...@someisp.net>
>>>>
>>>> I have no need to try to pawn off bad photography bounded in an
>>>> instructional book to try to make all that wasted time and effort with a
>>>> camera worth it. My photography stands on its own merit. I don't have to
>>>> trick anyone into buying it.
>>>
>>> What if everyone was downloading your photography for free off
>>> binary groups when you were trying to sell it?
>>
>> Then I stop selling it publicly, just as I have for that very reason.
>> They're now by private sale only, in limited editions. It's not my loss,
>> it's everyone else's loss. I could care less if I sell any more of my
>> photography. I already earned more than I can ever use in a lifetime.
>>
>> Judging by those photography instructional books, the photography world
>> would be a much better place if those authors pulled their books
>> permanently. They're not even worth stealing. If it ain't worth stealing,
>> it sure as hell ain't worth buying.
>>
>
> Douggie ??
Nope! It's the "nameless one" the phantom P&S evangelist..
It seems he thinks he is Warren Buffett.
--
Regards,
Savageduck
Atheist Chaplain
news:2009111917112480278-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom...
ahhh IC, the "I've made more than I can ever spend" claim threw me, it has
such a Douggie ring to it :-)
Noons
>
> Douggie ??
Mate: not everyone posting from an unidentified address is Douggie.
In fact, he is usually very easily traceable...
But I must admit: it's got a ring to it! ;)
Troy Piggins
LOL - you guys miss him so much you're seeing him everywhere, in
the shadows... :)
--
Troy Piggins
Atheist Chaplain
news:2009112...@usenet.piggo.com...
yeah but in my defence that "I made so much I don't know what to do with it"
comment was like a laser beam shining out from the shadows saying "Here I
am" :-)
Mr.T
"Phred" <ppnerkDE...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7ml5qdF...@mid.individual.net...
> In article <udp9g51gls0app9dc...@4ax.com>, Better Info
<bi...@someisp.net> wrote:
> [snip]
> > I already earned more than I can ever use in a lifetime.
>
> Bullshit!
Not everyone is greedy, but it would certainly be "bullshit" to most people
unfortunately.
MrT.
Better Info
Wow. An intelligent person in this newsgroup. Who would have thought that
possible!
Troy Piggins
>> LOL - you guys miss him so much you're seeing him everywhere, in
>> the shadows... :)
>
> comment was like a laser beam shining out from the shadows saying "Here I
> am" :-)
True dat :)
I just consider it kinda like saying "Candyman" 3 times in a
mirror, or "Beetlejuice" etc. Don't talk about him in case he
does appear.
--
Troy Piggins
Charlie Groh
wrote:
...and he, as I, "could not" care less.
Dimwit.
cg
Phred
It wasn't a comment on ethics; it was a comment on credibility.
Cheers, Phred.
--
ppnerk...@THISyahoo.com.INVALID
Russell D.
> After a little deliberation,
<snip good stuff>
Are you bagging GIMP?
IMWTK,
Russell
Troy Piggins
Not at all. Reason I switched to PS was purely because of this
astrophotography I've taken up. The images I end up with after
the pre-processing steps are, as you can imagine, still very
dark. All the information is bunched way up at the dark/shadow
end of the histogram. Have to do a lot, lot, lot of
teasing/stretching of the histogram using many iterations of
levels and curves to get that data out of that end.
Can do all that with GIMP, but the 8 bits per channel kills it.
You lose a lot of data when stretching so much. Wish I had some
screenshots or something to show you what I mean, but can't at
the moment. The shots get a bit posterised.
PS's 16 bits per channel is almost a necessity for doing that
magnitude of stretching. I hate saying it, but it's true.
I've never been one to bag PS or whatever, but have always
maintained that GIMP can do practically everything PS can do.
I had always said that unless I was a professional photographer,
I'd be happy with GIMP as it does everything a digital
photographer needs, whether by the base package or with the
plethora of plugins/scripts available.
I still stand by that, except for the astrophotographer.
But for "normal" dynamic ranges and photography, I'd recommend
the free but extremely powerful GIMP. If you have the money you
have another choice, I'd recommend both PS or GIMP.
--
Troy Piggins
Russell D.
Thanks for that explanation. Makes perfect sense. I use GIMP because it
is free and PS has a tough time on Linux which I use 99% of the time. I
just knew you had used GIMP in the past.
Russell
Alan Browne
Sounded that way to me.
Wolfgang Weisselberg
> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:33:35 +1000, Troy Piggins <usene...@piggo.com>
>>What if everyone was downloading your photography for free off
>>binary groups when you were trying to sell it?
> Then I stop selling it publicly, just as I have for that very reason.
What do we need to do so that you stop posting "publicly"?
I guess nothing will work, since you never did any photography
in first place ...
-Wolfgang
Teraposa Lunodas
binary groups when you were trying to sell it?
PS - I didn't pay to see his photography, I paid for his
Bob Larter
> In article <udp9g51gls0app9dc...@4ax.com>, Better Info <bi...@someisp.net> wrote:
> [snip]
>> I already earned more than I can ever use in a lifetime.
>
> Bullshit!
Ayup. The P&S troll is full of shit - for all his boasting, he hasn't
yet posted a photo worth looking at.
--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Larter is Lionel Lauer - Look it up.
wrote:
>Phred wrote:
>> In article <udp9g51gls0app9dc...@4ax.com>, Better Info <bi...@someisp.net> wrote:
>> [snip]
>>> I already earned more than I can ever use in a lifetime.
>>
>> Bullshit!
>
>Ayup. The P&S troll is full of shit - for all his boasting, he hasn't
>yet posted a photo worth looking at.
Bob Larter's legal name: Lionel Lauer
Home news-group, an actual group in the "troll-tracker" hierarchy:
alt.kook.lionel-lauer (established on, or before, 2004)
Registered Description: "the 'owner of several troll domains' needs a group where he'll stay on topic."
<http://groups.google.com/groups/search?hl=en&num=10&as_ugroup=alt.kook.lionel-lauer>
"Results 1 - 10 of about 2,170 for group:alt.kook.lionel-lauer."
%
"Usenet Legends bobandcarole ?" <usenetleg...@gmail.com> wrote in
message
news:796f256d-e210-4308...@p8g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
x-no-archive:
> On Nov 24, 8:41 am, Bob "on this" Larter <bobbylar...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Phred wrote:
> > > In article <udp9g51gls0app9dckqduoj8kusu45b...@4ax.com>, Better Info
> > > [snip]
> > >> I already earned more than I can ever use in a lifetime.
>
> > > Bullshit!
>
> > Ayup. The P&S troll is full of shit - for all his boasting, he hasn't
> > yet posted a photo worth looking at.
YOU calling somebody a torll??? YOU ... the inept former FNVW of
AUK who couldn't keep the vote tallies in order or even have a
regular
ko0k awards ballot? Maybe ya spent too much time sucking scott's dick
and trying to get me an award? :-) I do need a bigger tagline ...
--
#1 pedophile hunter: the wikisposure project.
http://www.wikisposure.com/Alt.support.boy-lovers
#5 ruiner of usenet.
yes , lets take it to the extreme with everything ,
> anything that anyone does that you don`t like gets ,
> hiz throat slit from ear to ear.
Here's Johnny
More to the point, if he's earned more than he can use in a lifetime, why
does he give a shit if anyone helps themselves to his stuff? Why go to the
effort of selling privately?
BEEEEEEEEEEYULLSHIT!
Better Info
More to the point, a limited edition has the photographer's signature and
accompanying notarized documentation, for ownership and establishing future
provenance. Also, the signature cannot be duplicated unless you have access
to a gas-chromatograph and an electron microscope. Even then it would be
extremely difficult due to the minute traces of unique and inert compounds
I add to one or more of the inks used for printing. Each run of prints
having a unique ink-signature as well as another unique ink combination
used for the handwritten-signature. A molecular combination lock if you
will. I know enough about chemistry, technology, and forensics to have
ensured this degree of difficulty to secure the ownership of my works.
The fact that none of you even know how this works (limited editions for
photography, even just by establishing a notarized provenance only) loudly
proclaims your own words as nothing but more newsgroup-trolls'
"BEEEEEEEEEEYULLSHIT!"
Bob Larter
ROTFL! Yeah, sure thing. Like anyone here believes that you've ever sold
a print in your life.
sobriquet
> After a little deliberation, reading reviews, trawling a few
> forums, I decided so splurge and buy a couple of books. I love
> reading novels, but for some reason for technical information
> I've always preferred online mailing lists, forums, and USENET
> newsgroups.
>
> Splashed out and bought CS4 Photoshop and Lightroom 2 recently,
> and figured they might be worth having some books to accompany
> them. Decided on "The Adobe Photoshop CS4 Book for Digital
> Photographers" by Scott Kelby and "The Adobe Photoshop Lightroom
> 2 Book: The Complete Guide for Photographers" by Martin Evening.
>
> Man, Kelby has so many books out. I know he's "the PS go-to
> author", but you have to wonder if reputation precedes and if
> there's actually better PS books out there but they get drowned
> out by Kelby overload...
>
> Well, my fears have been realised.
>
> Books received quite promptly from Amazon. Good service, first
> time I've dealt with them. But...
>
> The Kelby book. Very disappointed. The layout of the pages
> themselves is quite appealing at first glance, plenty of images
> to display what he's talking about. But when I think about it,
> that's one thing that annoys me about it. Too many images. I
> mean, if he's giving a step by step on something, does he really
> need to give an image to show him clicking the menu button
> described in the text? Waste of space where he could add more
> text/info/tips.
>
> That brings me to my next annoyance. Every new chapter title
> takes up 2 full pages. One shows a photo, the other some text.
> The text is the chapter title, then the rest is the explanation
> of how he came up with his "clever" chapter title. He seems to
> have this thing where his chapter titles are songs or movies or
> whatever that have words or something relevant to what that
> chapter is really about. eg there's a chapter on Bridge so he
> calls it "London Bridge". That's fine, cute, whatever, but we
> don't need a page explaining why you called it that. We get it.
> Just put a paragraph about this little nuance in your intro or
> something and give us more meat in the content of the book.
>
> Next point. Give the man meat. I bought this book wanting to
> learn uber-tips from the Photoshop guru. But in reality, it looks
> to me like he's taken the easy road. Quite a few pages (like 10
> or so) on the unsharp mask. Not really cool things like using the
> unsharp mask with edge masking or surface masking or anything,
> just 10 (or so) pages on different combinations of amount,
> radius, and threshold.
>
> Some of the cooler tips he's posted actually come from "friends"
> of his showing him the tip. I like that he's passed it on, and
> has acknowledged his mates, but I want to see more of his cool
> stuff. I don't reckon he's sharing it all. Can't be.
>
> The first third or so of the book talks only about Bridge and
> Camera Raw. Too much. Reckon you could split the book up, have
> another thinner book on those, or each of them, sell them
> cheaper. Gimme a book on CS4 Photoshop please, not the other
> stuff, that's why I got Lightroom.
>
> Summary - I reckon the title should contain the word "Beginners"
> in it. I'm not pro PS user, only had it for a couple of months.
> But I picked up much of what was in the book by playing with it
> and reading some online sites.
>
> I'll keep the book as a reference for some of the tips in there,
> but reckon if I tore out the pages that contained stuff that was
> either obvious or wasted space, I wouldn't be left with much
> inside the covers.
>
> I'm just starting the Lightroom book, but initial flick through
> looks like it goes into much more detail, which is what I want.
>
> --
> Troy Piggins
Books are moronic and dull. Try tutorial video's instead:
http://thepiratebay.org/search/lynda%20photoshop/0/99/0
Bob Larter is Lionel Lauer - Look it up.
Ray Fischer
>On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 00:01:02 +1000, "Here's Johnny" <r...@tattat.net> wrote:
>
>>Ray Fischer wrote:
>>> Better Info <bi...@someisp.net> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:33:35 +1000, Troy Piggins
>>>> <usene...@piggo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> * Better Info wrote :
>>>>>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:08:45 -0500, tony cooper
>>>>>> <tony_co...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Better Info <bi...@someisp.net>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have no need to try to pawn off bad photography bounded in an
>>>>>> instructional book to try to make all that wasted time and effort
>>>>>> with a camera worth it. My photography stands on its own merit. I
>>>>>> don't have to trick anyone into buying it.
>>>>>
>>>>> What if everyone was downloading your photography for free off
>>>>> binary groups when you were trying to sell it?
>>>>
>>>> Then I stop selling it publicly, just as I have for that very reason.
>>>> They're now by private sale only, in limited editions.
>>>
>>> Shrug. How hard is it to duplicate "limited" edition photos?
>>
>>More to the point, if he's earned more than he can use in a lifetime, why
>>does he give a shit if anyone helps themselves to his stuff? Why go to the
>>effort of selling privately?
>>
>>BEEEEEEEEEEYULLSHIT!
>
>More to the point, a limited edition has the photographer's signature and
Go to hell, asshole spammer.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
clw
career.
They rapidly become insufferable due to his cutsy crap. About as bad as
some of those "idiot's" books.
did find one book that was useful and not insufferable, "Maximum
Performance" by Mark Galer.
Troy Piggins
The Martin Evening Lightroom 2 book was excellent. I have since
ordered the Martin Evening Photoshop book and intend to get rid
of the Kelby one.
--
Troy Piggins