Re: Palestinians Under Attack
HEMI-Powered
jour ...
>>There have also been protest marches in support of the Gazan's
>>and anti Israel that have not been predominantly Islamic but a
>>general cross section of the population including Jews who
>>understand that criticising the state of Israel is not
>>anti-sematic.
>>
> Since when have the protest marches of university students been
> the "real world?" When have they ever been evidence of
> expertise on world facts or foreign affairs?
It's also common for students to be ultra-liberal, especially with
the Far Left Loon thinking of their professors and demonstrable
retribution against students who don't turn in papers to their
profs' like wrt political ideology.
The thing about being young and liberal isn't necessarily bad,
however, so long as those challenging old or accepted views take
the time to learn the history of those views and do their own
research. I read a letter to the editor in our newspaper from some
gal who said she was a college senior and had examined both
McCain's and Obama's economic and tax plans prior to voting for
Obama - what a surprise, huh?! - and she concluded that Obama's
idea to give 98% of all Americans a tax cut was a good idea.
Too bad that a) his actual number was 95%, b) that includes the 40%
today who pay ZERO income taxes, so c) she obviously hasn't learned
a damn thing in college so far.
> Students tend to protest anything, particularly things that
> people can whip up as being perceived as issues of social
> injustice. Where have you been?
>
Yep. Again, this isn't necessarily bad, but most often is badly
done. e.g., protests against the war in Viet Nam were really no
more effective than have been protests against the war in Iraq.
Likewise, protests for or against social issues are also typically
quite shallow and show the "follow the herd" mentality of most
protest marches and demonstrations.
As the poet once said, it's really too bad that youth is wasted on
the young.
--
HP, aka Jerry
"The government that governs least, governs best" - Thomas
Jefferson
"Government is NOT the solution to our problems, it IS our
problem!" - Ronald Reagan
Ray Fischer
>Stephen Bishop added these comments in the current discussion du
>jour ...
>
>>>There have also been protest marches in support of the Gazan's
>>>and anti Israel that have not been predominantly Islamic but a
>>>general cross section of the population including Jews who
>>>understand that criticising the state of Israel is not
>>>anti-sematic.
>>>
>> Since when have the protest marches of university students been
>> the "real world?" When have they ever been evidence of
>> expertise on world facts or foreign affairs?
>
>It's also common for students to be ultra-liberal,
Only if you're so far to the right that you'd embarrasss Hitler.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Stephen Bishop
Hitler was an extreme left-winger, Mr. text clipper. What do you
think National Socialism is?
HEMI-Powered
jour ...
>>Only if you're so far to the right that you'd embarrasss Hitler.
>
> Hitler was an extreme left-winger, Mr. text clipper. What do
> you think National Socialism is?
>
Stephen, the name National Socialist Peoples Party, or Nazi Party,
was a misnomer meant to ensnare a gullible population. It was really
a fascist regime as I know you are aware. Fascism is an example of
the wrap-around effect I talked about in another post, where if one
goes left far enough, the socialism part gets overwhelmed by extreme
control of everything, everybody, and even every thought and action.
In other words, a traditional fascist dictatorship state. The START
of this is what people in our country call a "nanny state" where the
government regulates most of buying choice and usage choice and
cleverly whittles away as most other freedoms. This is precisely what
the Green Nazis that now dominate the Democratic Party intend to do
with electrical power, cars, TVs, anything they deem anti-social.
Chris H
<nospam...@now.com> writes
It was right wing Fascism.
If I renamed the communist party the Republican Party it would still
be communist. "National Socialism" is not the same as "Socialism"
It is this sort of equivocation which removes any credibility you have
Stephen.
--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Stephen Bishop
wrote:
>Stephen Bishop added these comments in the current discussion du
>jour ...
>
>>>Only if you're so far to the right that you'd embarrasss Hitler.
>>
>> Hitler was an extreme left-winger, Mr. text clipper. What do
>> you think National Socialism is?
>>
>Stephen, the name National Socialist Peoples Party, or Nazi Party,
>was a misnomer meant to ensnare a gullible population. It was really
>a fascist regime as I know you are aware. Fascism is an example of
>the wrap-around effect I talked about in another post, where if one
>goes left far enough, the socialism part gets overwhelmed by extreme
>control of everything, everybody, and even every thought and action.
>In other words, a traditional fascist dictatorship state. The START
>of this is what people in our country call a "nanny state" where the
>government regulates most of buying choice and usage choice and
>cleverly whittles away as most other freedoms. This is precisely what
>the Green Nazis that now dominate the Democratic Party intend to do
>with electrical power, cars, TVs, anything they deem anti-social.
Yes, fascism is so far left that it appears to be far right. But it
is quite socialist and left wing in the sense that the state controls
everything, from the media to the economy.
Right wing in the sense of the conservative movement in the USA is
quite the opposite. That philosophy believes in as little government
and as much freedom of the inividual as possible.
Stephen Bishop
>In message <akkdo419rhrjued3c...@4ax.com>, Stephen Bishop
><nospam...@now.com> writes
>>On 01 Feb 2009 22:42:44 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>
>>>HEMI-Powered <no...@none.gn> wrote:
>>>>Stephen Bishop added these comments in the current discussion du
>>>>jour ...
>>>>
>>>>>>There have also been protest marches in support of the Gazan's
>>>>>>and anti Israel that have not been predominantly Islamic but a
>>>>>>general cross section of the population including Jews who
>>>>>>understand that criticising the state of Israel is not
>>>>>>anti-sematic.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Since when have the protest marches of university students been
>>>>> the "real world?" When have they ever been evidence of
>>>>> expertise on world facts or foreign affairs?
>>>>
>>>>It's also common for students to be ultra-liberal,
>>>
>>>Only if you're so far to the right that you'd embarrasss Hitler.
>>
>>
>>Hitler was an extreme left-winger, Mr. text clipper. What do you
>>think National Socialism is?
>
>It was right wing Fascism.
>
>If I renamed the communist party the Republican Party it would still
>be communist. "National Socialism" is not the same as "Socialism"
>
>It is this sort of equivocation which removes any credibility you have
>Stephen.
As I just posted in response to Hemi, it IS socialist in the sense
that the state controls everything from the media to the economy. That
is not what the right wing seeks, at least not in the USA. What the
left wingers call "right wing" are conservatives who believe in as
little government as possible interfering with the lives of the
individual. It's interesting that they will call Republicans and
conservatives such names as "fascists" when nothing could be further
from the truth.
If you don't understand that, then I'm afraid you are far, far down on
the credibility scale.
Ray Fischer
That's an outright lie, but one that neonazis like to use to try and
distance themselves from their nazi-like ideology.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
That's fascism.
> That
>is not what the right wing seeks,
Yes it is.
> at least not in the USA.
Of course it is. Corporations and government work together to control
everything. Corporate ownership and control abetted by government
enforcement. That IS the right's agenda in the United States.
> What the
>left wingers call "right wing" are conservatives who believe in as
>little government as possible interfering with the lives of the
>individual.
LOL!
"Conservatives" who advocate for anti-abortion, pro-censorship,
anti-civil rights, and pro-corporation are not trying to avoid
interfering in other people's lives. You're just trying to force
people to allow YOUR interference.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
HEMI-Powered
jour ...
>>Stephen, the name National Socialist Peoples Party, or Nazi
>>Party, was a misnomer meant to ensnare a gullible population.
>>It was really a fascist regime as I know you are aware. Fascism
>>is an example of the wrap-around effect I talked about in
>>another post, where if one goes left far enough, the socialism
>>part gets overwhelmed by extreme control of everything,
>>everybody, and even every thought and action. In other words, a
>>traditional fascist dictatorship state. The START of this is
>>what people in our country call a "nanny state" where the
>>government regulates most of buying choice and usage choice and
>>cleverly whittles away as most other freedoms. This is precisely
>>what the Green Nazis that now dominate the Democratic Party
>>intend to do with electrical power, cars, TVs, anything they
>>deem anti-social.
>
> Yes, fascism is so far left that it appears to be far right.
> But it is quite socialist and left wing in the sense that the
> state controls everything, from the media to the economy.
Oh, I agree with you here just fine, but the KIND of control that
Fascism exerts IS different than either Socialism or Communism as
we have seen in Germany, Italy, later China and of course, the
former USSR.
> Right wing in the sense of the conservative movement in the USA
> is quite the opposite. That philosophy believes in as little
> government and as much freedom of the inividual as possible.
>
Yes, quite true. There's a couple of schools of thought here
including so-called strict constructionists that I tend to be one
of. But, I am NOT a Libertarian like Ron Paul. Those people have
such extreme views on the Right as to be Loons themselves. How, for
example, is it even feasible to abandon a national military in
favor of state militias again, even if we wanted to?!
When one enters the range of Far RIGHT Loons, that of neocons and
reactionaries, reason goes out the window just as surely with Loons
of the Far Left, just in a way different form. But, what is so
wrong with modern conservatism is that it no longer bears ANY
resemblence to the Reagan philosophy or that of Ike 30 years
earlier. Sadly for those of us who want small government and lower
taxes overall, the Bush 43 years saw the BIGGEST enlargement in the
size of government and spending since at least LBJ's Great Society
which coincided with the spending for Viet Nam. Can't quite
understand what happened here.
Have a happy Tuesday!
HEMI-Powered
jour ...
>>It was right wing Fascism.
>>
>>If I renamed the communist party the Republican Party it would
>>still be communist. "National Socialism" is not the same as
>>"Socialism"
>>
>>It is this sort of equivocation which removes any credibility
>>you have Stephen.
>
> As I just posted in response to Hemi, it IS socialist in the
> sense that the state controls everything from the media to the
> economy. That is not what the right wing seeks, at least not in
> the USA. What the left wingers call "right wing" are
> conservatives who believe in as little government as possible
> interfering with the lives of the individual. It's interesting
> that they will call Republicans and conservatives such names as
> "fascists" when nothing could be further from the truth.
>
> If you don't understand that, then I'm afraid you are far, far
> down on the credibility scale.
>
Polling over the last 20 years or more has consistently shown the
United States to be right of center on key issues such as social
engineering, size of government, strong national defense, tax
policy, Bill of Rights in it's correct form, religious thinking,
pro life vs pro abortion, and the like. However, when these
fundamentals of conservatism go out the window as they did during
the most recent Adminstrations efforts to conceal the truth from
the American people, they can and DID "throw the bums out" and the
Republicans lost about all the clout they ever had.
There IS hope for 2010, though, IF the Rebublicans quit looking for
retribution, allow Michael Steele to develop a sane message for the
party and quit worrying about how to deliver "the message" AND the
party is seen as being FOR things Americans truly believe in
instead of simply against the liberals. And, there is a VAST need
for new candidates and new thinking if the Red Team expects to
regain control of at least one house of Congress and/or the White
House in 2012. I was LESS than impressed with the presidential
hopefuls last year and see NO ONE on the horizons that can carry
this country next election, but there's still plenty of time.
Chris H
<no...@none.gn> writes
>Stephen Bishop added these comments in the current discussion du
>jour ...
>
>>>Stephen, the name National Socialist Peoples Party, or Nazi
>>>Party, was a misnomer meant to ensnare a gullible population.
>>>It was really a fascist regime as I know you are aware. Fascism
>>>is an example of the wrap-around effect I talked about in
>>>another post, where if one goes left far enough, the socialism
>>>part gets overwhelmed by extreme control of everything,
>>>everybody, and even every thought and action. In other words, a
>>>traditional fascist dictatorship state. The START of this is
>>>what people in our country call a "nanny state" where the
>>>government regulates most of buying choice and usage choice and
>>>cleverly whittles away as most other freedoms. This is precisely
>>>what the Green Nazis that now dominate the Democratic Party
>>>intend to do with electrical power, cars, TVs, anything they
>>>deem anti-social.
>>
>> Yes, fascism is so far left that it appears to be far right.
>> But it is quite socialist and left wing in the sense that the
>> state controls everything, from the media to the economy.
>
>Oh, I agree with you here just fine, but the KIND of control that
>Fascism exerts IS different than either Socialism or Communism as
>we have seen in Germany, Italy, later China and of course, the
>former USSR.
Not really... they are all similar and different. Not all communist
states are the same. Socialist ones vary a hell of a lot. Fascism also
varies eg German and Italy. However they all have similar controls over
their population
>> Right wing in the sense of the conservative movement in the USA
>> is quite the opposite. That philosophy believes in as little
>> government and as much freedom of the inividual as possible.
>>
>Yes, quite true. There's a couple of schools of thought here
>including so-called strict constructionists that I tend to be one
>of. But, I am NOT a Libertarian like Ron Paul. Those people have
>such extreme views on the Right as to be Loons themselves. How, for
>example, is it even feasible to abandon a national military in
>favor of state militias again, even if we wanted to?!
Many counties do just that. However if you are paranoid and insecure
as America is they it needs a huge military to stand against what ever
demons the collective psyche has dreamed up.
Reds, Islamic terrorists or what ever. If you are a contented country
with a non-paranoid and secure population you don't need a big Army..
For example Switzerland, Iceland, New Zealand etc
Many have a large army simply to give the population a job. Turkey for
example has a large army in order to educate and train the population
and give them a job some what of a socialist idea for a right wing
country.
When it comes to the fighting they use the professional corps of the
military not the conscripts.
>When one enters the range of Far RIGHT Loons, that of neocons and
>reactionaries, reason goes out the window just as surely with Loons
>of the Far Left, just in a way different form.
Quite so. Both are as bad as each other.
>But, what is so
>wrong with modern conservatism is that it no longer bears ANY
>resemblence to the Reagan philosophy or that of Ike 30 years
>earlier. Sadly for those of us who want small government and lower
>taxes overall, the Bush 43 years saw the BIGGEST enlargement in the
>size of government and spending since at least LBJ's Great Society
>which coincided with the spending for Viet Nam. Can't quite
>understand what happened here.
The Bushes have been the downfall of the US
Stephen Bishop
Correct, that is fascism, which is a manifestation of socialism taken
to its exreme. The irony is that fascists claim to hate socialists,
but they end up doing the same thing under a different name.
>> That
>>is not what the right wing seeks,
>
>Yes it is.
You're lying again. Not only are you bigoted against Israel, you are
bigoted against conservatives. You've made that clear in every topic
you post in.
>
>> at least not in the USA.
>
>Of course it is. Corporations and government work together to control
>everything. Corporate ownership and control abetted by government
>enforcement. That IS the right's agenda in the United States.
Not only are you a self-righteous bigot, you are a dishonest and
paranoid fool who believes any left-wing propaganda that gets fed to
you.
Pssst... Ray! Look over your shoulder. I think those black
helicopters have found you. You're about to be arrested and thrown
in the George W. Bush Re-education Camp. You know, the one
controlled by big oil and with Dick Cheney as the head prison guard.
Soon you'll be forced to say phrases like, "neocons are nice people."
How horrible for you!!! Next thing you know they'll cut off your
ponytail and take away your marijuana plants. Torture!!
>> What the
>>left wingers call "right wing" are conservatives who believe in as
>>little government as possible interfering with the lives of the
>>individual.
>
>LOL!
Laugh all you want, it is the absolute truth.
>
>"Conservatives" who advocate for anti-abortion, pro-censorship,
>anti-civil rights, and pro-corporation are not trying to avoid
>interfering in other people's lives. You're just trying to force
>people to allow YOUR interference.
All those leftist bumper sticker accusations just prove who you are.
You rant and rave about a few hundred innocent people killed in a war,
yet you don't blink an eye at the MILLIONS of the most innocent and
helpless humans who are slaughtered in abortion clinics on a routine
basis.
You also ignore the FACT that the Republicans have the actual record
of promoting civil rights in this country. The KKK was started by
Democrats. Martin Luther King was a Republican, you ninny. It was
the conservative Republicans who ended slavery and pushed to enact
civil rights laws. You know as little about U.S. history as you do
about the history of the Middle East.
It's the left wing Democrats in power now who are seeking to do things
like nationalizing the country's banking system and impose
government-controlled health care on everyone. It is the Democrats
who are seeking to silence free speech with such Nazi programs as the
"fairness doctrine." You are so incredibly stupid to let your
ideology distort your view of the facts.
You are truly a fool who sees black as white, and who stands on his
head while telling the rest of the world that they are upside-down.
That's why I say you are a Nazi. That black SS uniform would fit you
perfectly.
Stephen Bishop
Being the neonazi you are, I can understand how you believe that way.
Ray Fischer
You're a lying asshole. Even when presented with cites that show you
to be laughably wrong you continute to push your rightard propaganda.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
Do you not even see the contradictions in what you write?
Social conservatives are strongly in favor of social engineering in
that they demand censorship and government promotion of their agenda.
The biggest military in the world, by far, necessatates a big
government.
There is NOTHING "conservative" about conservatives. You're all
big-government control freaks.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
Stephen Bishop
Yet again you substitute rectally-oriented insults for any semblence
of rational discussion. But it's easier for you to call anything you
don't agree with a lie. Especially when you again sleazily clip out
large blocks of text that show what I really said, while only leaving
a few words that you can make to look like I said something different.
I didn't say fascism and socialism were the same things. I said it
was a *manifestation* of socialism taken to the extreme because the
end result is the same: State control of all aspects of the country.
National Socialism is a far left phenomenon. It is the ultimate
nanny state where the state is worshiped above all else, under the
guidance of a supreme leader who knows what is best for everyone. At
those extremes the far left and far right become indistinguisable.
Stephen Bishop
You're the one with the childish paranoid fantasies.
Shifting of the blame? Blame for what?
Ray Fischer
When you lie so egregiously it's not a "rational discussion". It's
just bald-faced lying.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Stephen Bishop
Funny that you still haven't demonstrated that I've lied about
anything. You just consider differing opinions and interpretations
of facts from a point of view that doesn't match yours to be lies. You
also misundersand simple allegories or examples and call them lies.
That's why you are such a self-righteous bigot.
Ray Fischer
The West Bank [...] is just as much a part of Israel as California is a part of the U.S.
Stephen Bishop in <36rcn4h5k7k7g271u...@4ax.com>
>You claimed that the West Bank is part of Israel.
You are a pathetic liar. I never said that.
Stephen Bishop in <hgmgn41dpgb93jeda...@4ax.com>
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Stephen Bishop
I'll repeat the rest of the text that you clipped away:
Funny that you still haven't demonstrated that I've lied about
Ray Fischer
Stephen Bishop
You keep clipping away all the evidence that shows I did not lie.
Selective quoting of words to "prove" something is meaningless.
But even in what you keep quoting, my two statements do not contradict
one another at all. You are only reading the parts you want to read.
Or are you just stupid?
If you really want to play that game, you would be "shown" to be a
liar, too. You've already shown yourself to be dishonest by your
constant text-clipping and out of context "fact" providing.
Answer my questions, Ray.
Ray Fischer
There isn't any evidence, liar.
You lied. The PROOF is above.
>But even in what you keep quoting, my two statements do not contradict
>one another at all.
Of course they do, lunatic.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Stephen Bishop
You're such a rayhole.
>
>>But even in what you keep quoting, my two statements do not contradict
>>one another at all.
>
>Of course they do, lunatic.
No, rayhole, they don't unless you selectively read what you want to
read.
But that's what rayholes do.