Finding restaurants

[Tony Cooper]

A poster here has repeatedly whinged about not being able to find good
restaurants in the tourist corridor of the Orlando area. Hardly
surprising because 1) he was looking for good restaurants in an area
where simply being open is all it takes to attract customers, and 2)
"good" is a subjective judgment that is based primarily on acquired
taste.

Most adults feel that "good", in restaurant fare, is what they are
used to and have found to be "good" over time. A restaurant in a
country other than their own is not likely to serve the type of dish,
prepared in the way they are used to, and spiced the way they are used
to.

US Chain restaurants have some advantage to the traveler. When
traveling in the US, I know I will find what I consider to be good
food in an Outback Steakhouse or a Carrabba's Italian Grill. I know
that the food in an Olive Garden or a Denny's is not going to be
something I will enjoy. I have no illusions that others will share
this opinion. I pick a restaurant to please me, not others.

While I like Carrabba's, I wouldn't recommend it to a person from
Europe. American Italian-style food is not the same as what a
European may be used to. Certainly not what an Italian is used to.

When traveling in small towns where there are no chain restaurants
that I consider to be acceptable, I look for local places with a lot
of cars in the parking lot and a full crowd. The food may not be
great, but my chances of getting a good meal are better if the locals
patronize the place. For this reason, I try to stop for dinner at
regular dinner hours.

I've traveled extensively in Europe, and had both hits and misses. The
independently owned restaurant is more prevalent in Europe, so there's
no experience factor involved in choosing restaurants. In Europe, the
full parking lot and the presence of a crowd in a restaurant is not a
dependable way to choose. The better restaurants often don't have
on-site parking, and the crowd in the place only means that this
restaurant offers what the local crowd likes. That can be quite
different from the style of food that I like.

I've never used Yelp or that type of thing for a recommendation. It's
ridiculous to do so. Yelp recommendations are often "salted" by the
restaurant.

The last trip my wife and I made out-of-town was to Tarpon Springs to
see the Epiphany festival and the diving for the cross. Tarpon
Spring's sponge dock area is what would be considered to be a tourist
area. The most recommended restaurant had a wait time of 45 minutes
for lunch (and you had to wait outside in the cold), so we just picked
a place at random. Turned out to be an excellent meal. Luck of the
draw.

Had the poster asked me for recommendation (fat chance!), I would have
suggested trying places that serve a cuisine totally different from
what he's used to...Sonny's for barbecue, a Cuban restaurant, a
Southern-style restaurant, or a Mexican restaurant (not Taco Bell!).
He may or may not like it, but be adventurous. Take your chances.
That's one of the interesting things about travel.



--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

[PeterN]

In fairness, he is not unique. There are many Americans who will only
stay at a Hilton. To my way of thinking, why travel if you are only
going where everyting is familiar.



--
PeterN

[John McWilliams]

Staying at a chain hotel won't make the city nor its features
familiar—Unless you stay there the whole time!

To me, Yelp! Is invaluable when travelling by auto, and internet is not
available, nor planning in advance. Not for the reviews so much, but as
to location and menu offerings. Opentable is used whereever possible.

[PeterN]

Yes. I get a lot of use from Opentable. I also like to let my points
accumulate, so I get an almost free dinner. I know it's the same but I
would rather get $100 discount on one dinner, a $20 discount on five
dinners.


--
PeterN

[Sandman]

In article <tdgiba9fqjgdgo984...@4ax.com>, Andreas Skitsnack wrote:

Oh, a troll thread from Andreas. Been a while.

> A poster here has repeatedly whinged about not being able to find
> good restaurants in the tourist corridor of the Orlando area.
> Hardly surprising because 1) he was looking for good restaurants in
> an area where simply being open is all it takes to attract
> customers, and 2) "good" is a subjective judgment that is based
> primarily on acquired taste.

> Most adults feel that "good", in restaurant fare, is what they are
> used to and have found to be "good" over time. A restaurant in a
> country other than their own is not likely to serve the type of
> dish, prepared in the way they are used to, and spiced the way they
> are used to.

Not at all. I like testing different food. Unfortunately, Americans don't
season their food much at all, especially not in tourist-heavy areas, where
most tourists are Americans.

Most food is super-greasy, tons of added sugar and way too sweet to eat.
But that's not really the biggest problem (and could be filed under the
'this is how we "spice" things in America). The biggest probem is the
usually really low aulity of meat, produce and things like that. It's like
you guys add syrup, sugar and salt to hide the crappy meat that's hidden
underneath somewhere.

> US Chain restaurants have some advantage to the traveler. When
> traveling in the US, I know I will find what I consider to be good
> food in an Outback Steakhouse or a Carrabba's Italian Grill. I know
> that the food in an Olive Garden or a Denny's is not going to be
> something I will enjoy. I have no illusions that others will share
> this opinion. I pick a restaurant to please me, not others.

As a foreigner, this is not a viable option, since few American chains
exists abroad.

And even on those that do exist abroad (like McDonald's) they still are of
lower quality in the states. FOr instance; in America, the soda is
sweetened with syrup instead of real sugar, as opposed to most of the rest
of the world, which means that a Coke tastes... well, worse. Also, the
quality of produce and meat in McDonald's in US is lower than most of
Europe.

> While I like Carrabba's, I wouldn't recommend it to a person from
> Europe. American Italian-style food is not the same as what a
> European may be used to. Certainly not what an Italian is used to.

Too much added sugar, usually. Same with most chinese food joints.

> I've traveled extensively in Europe, and had both hits and misses.
> The independently owned restaurant is more prevalent in Europe, so
> there's no experience factor involved in choosing restaurants. In
> Europe, the full parking lot and the presence of a crowd in a
> restaurant is not a dependable way to choose. The better
> restaurants often don't have on-site parking, and the crowd in the
> place only means that this restaurant offers what the local crowd
> likes. That can be quite different from the style of food that I
> like.

Plus, Europe is such a diverse place, where food culture changes ever X
miles you travel, most times significantly. But most places in Europe has
good quality meat and produce to begin with, so whatever reason you end up
disliking a dish has more to do with how it's done than what it was made
of.

> I've never used Yelp or that type of thing for a recommendation.
> It's ridiculous to do so. Yelp recommendations are often "salted"
> by the restaurant.

Proof? No? Thought so.

> Had the poster asked me for recommendation (fat chance!), I would
> have suggested trying places that serve a cuisine totally different
> from what he's used to...Sonny's for barbecue, a Cuban restaurant, a
> Southern-style restaurant, or a Mexican restaurant (not Taco Bell!).
> He may or may not like it, but be adventurous. Take your chances.
> That's one of the interesting things about travel.

All the places we ate at were new to us, but alas; what most of them had in
common is the low standard meat/produce and the added sugar/salt/fish
fetish.

And Taco Bell most certainly served a "cuisine" totally different to what
we're used to!


--
Sandman[.net]

[PAS]

"Tony Cooper" <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:tdgiba9fqjgdgo984...@4ax.com...

>A poster here has repeatedly whinged about not being able to find good
> restaurants in the tourist corridor of the Orlando area. Hardly
> surprising because 1) he was looking for good restaurants in an area
> where simply being open is all it takes to attract customers, and 2)
> "good" is a subjective judgment that is based primarily on acquired
> taste.
>
> Most adults feel that "good", in restaurant fare, is what they are
> used to and have found to be "good" over time. A restaurant in a
> country other than their own is not likely to serve the type of dish,
> prepared in the way they are used to, and spiced the way they are used
> to.
>
> US Chain restaurants have some advantage to the traveler. When
> traveling in the US, I know I will find what I consider to be good
> food in an Outback Steakhouse or a Carrabba's Italian Grill. I know
> that the food in an Olive Garden or a Denny's is not going to be
> something I will enjoy. I have no illusions that others will share
> this opinion. I pick a restaurant to please me, not others.

I'm with you there, I like Outback Steakhouse and my wife and I eat at
Carrabba's most Friday nights. For a chain restaurant, I think
Carrabba's is exceptional. Another chain I like is Famous Dave's BBQ.
I've had BBQ from some non-chain places in Manhattan that are rated very
highly regarded and I found Famous Dave's ribs to be superior. I skip
Denny's and the Olive Garden, not a fan. There is a Denny's on Long
Island now. When it opened, people flocked to it and the wait time was
close to two hours to get a table. Two hours for a table at Denny's!
We have the finest diners all over Long Island, to think that people
would wait for a table at Denny's when right up the block is a great
diner that makes Denny's look like a slop house.

My mother and step-father live not far from there, in Spring Hill. When
we visit, we go to Tarpon Springs and we've enjoyed the food there,
we've not had a bad experience.

> Had the poster asked me for recommendation (fat chance!), I would have
> suggested trying places that serve a cuisine totally different from
> what he's used to...Sonny's for barbecue, a Cuban restaurant, a
> Southern-style restaurant, or a Mexican restaurant (not Taco Bell!).
> He may or may not like it, but be adventurous. Take your chances.
> That's one of the interesting things about travel.

Sonny's? I'll have to remember that name when I find myself in the area
again.

[PAS]

"Sandman" <m...@sandman.net> wrote in message
news:slrnmbq5...@irc.sandman.net...

> In article <tdgiba9fqjgdgo984...@4ax.com>, Andreas
> Skitsnack wrote:
>
> Oh, a troll thread from Andreas. Been a while.
>
>> A poster here has repeatedly whinged about not being able to find
>> good restaurants in the tourist corridor of the Orlando area.
>> Hardly surprising because 1) he was looking for good restaurants in
>> an area where simply being open is all it takes to attract
>> customers, and 2) "good" is a subjective judgment that is based
>> primarily on acquired taste.
>
>> Most adults feel that "good", in restaurant fare, is what they are
>> used to and have found to be "good" over time. A restaurant in a
>> country other than their own is not likely to serve the type of
>> dish, prepared in the way they are used to, and spiced the way they
>> are used to.
>
> Not at all. I like testing different food. Unfortunately, Americans
> don't
> season their food much at all, especially not in tourist-heavy areas,
> where
> most tourists are Americans.

I don't know much about Swedish food but if I had to guess, I wouldn't
think that the food you eat is seasoned much. My not-very-educated
impression of Swedish and Norwegian food (I know quite a few Norwegians)
is that is is somewhat bland when it comes to seasoning and that's fine
by me. I'm a picky eater, I don't like a lot of things and I am the
farthest from an "adventruous eater" as you will find. Give me some
meat and potatoes and I'm fine.

We're finally seeing things turn around a bit. More and more products
are using sugar now instead of corn syrup. Sodas too - I see a lot of
Coc-Cola products on the shelves originating from Mexico where they
bottle with sugar, not corn syrup. I think eventually the US-produced
Coke will wind up using sugar again. There is some thought that the
corn syrup is not good for you but I don't believe there is any
scientific evidence to say that. With the introduction of corn syrup
into the American diet, the incidence of diabetes has increased
dramatically. I'm a victim of that, but I blame myself for my
condition, I didn't have a great diet and all those years of drinking a
lot of Coca-Cola. Having diabetes on my mother's side of the family
didn't help either. She is borderline diabetic but she it started when
she was about 72 and she always has had a good diet. I got diabetes
when I was 38. If I had the diet my mother had perhaps I would have
fared better and not gotten it until I was much older like her.

>> While I like Carrabba's, I wouldn't recommend it to a person from
>> Europe. American Italian-style food is not the same as what a
>> European may be used to. Certainly not what an Italian is used to.
>
> Too much added sugar, usually. Same with most chinese food joints.

Really? I wouldn't think that Carrabba's adds much sugar to their food.
If I eat a chicken dish with some soup and a little pasta on the side,
how much sugar can they add to that? Chinese food, or what passes for
Chinese food on the USA, wreaks havoc with my blood sugar levels because
of the sauces - lots of sugar. I stay away from it now.

If I was Mexican, I'd take umbrage at Taco Bell being labeled a Mexican
restaurant. Mexican food is extremely popular in the USA and "real"
Mexican food has nothing in common with Taco Bell.

[Tony Cooper]

On 19 Jan 2015 14:29:30 GMT, Sandman <m...@sandman.net> wrote:

>In article <tdgiba9fqjgdgo984...@4ax.com>, Andreas Skitsnack wrote:
>
>Oh, a troll thread from Andreas. Been a while.

Troll thread? I don't know what is trollish about a discussion of
finding acceptable restaurants in an area one is not familiar with.

What is trollish is making sweeping generalizations about the food
quality and restaurant quality of a country based on a visit to one
touristy area of that country. And, one based on what were evidently
choices of places made haphazardly. Your extensive complaints an
example of shirt-tail dragging.

>
>Not at all. I like testing different food. Unfortunately, Americans don't
>season their food much at all, especially not in tourist-heavy areas, where
>most tourists are Americans.

If you are referring to the Disney World area, you are correct that
"most" tourists are Americans. Between 18% and 22% of the tourists
who visit there are from other countries.

However, you are making the typical small European country assumption
that there is no regional diversity in culinary styles in the US. Yet,
this is as marked in the US as it is in Italy where northern cuisine
is different from southern cuisine...but more extensive because the US
is larger.

The tourist area restaurant operator, though, cooks for some
unattainable level of pleasing everyone.

>The biggest probem is the usually really low aulity of meat, produce and things like that.

There is a significant difference between grain-fed beef and corn-fed
beef. Corn-fed beef is more expensive and more difficult to find in
Florida. Only the top-end restaurants offer corn-fed beef.

Produce quality, the things you mostly see in the salad course, also
vary regionally in the US. Florida restaurants generally buy locally
grown products because of shipping costs, and tomatoes, lettuce, and
that sort of this don't have the same quality if grown in the sandy
soil of Florida. Midwestern tomatoes, for example, are far superior
to Florida-grown tomatoes.

>> US Chain restaurants have some advantage to the traveler.

>As a foreigner, this is not a viable option, since few American chains
>exists abroad.
>
>And even on those that do exist abroad (like McDonald's) they still are of
>lower quality in the states.

You are in very small company if you consider a McDonald's to be a
"restaurant" or any type of benchmark. We refer to McDonald's as a
"fast-food restaurant" and only include "restaurant" in the term
because there is no convenient term to replace it. However, the
inclusion of "fast-food" sets it completely apart from the single word
"restaurant".

>FOr instance; in America, the soda is
>sweetened with syrup instead of real sugar, as opposed to most of the rest
>of the world, which means that a Coke tastes... well, worse.

Just above you've complained about the high sugar content in our food.

>Also, the quality of produce and meat in McDonald's in US is lower than most of
>Europe.

That's a laughable statement to an American. Of course it is. What
do you expect for a 99 cent hamburger? Or anything served in a
fast-food restaurant?

>
>> I've traveled extensively in Europe, and had both hits and misses.

>Plus, Europe is such a diverse place, where food culture changes ever X
>miles you travel,

If you are not aware that this is also true in the US, it is because
1) you've not traveled enough in the US, and 2) your selection of
restaurants is at fault.

>
>> I've never used Yelp or that type of thing for a recommendation.
>> It's ridiculous to do so. Yelp recommendations are often "salted"
>> by the restaurant.
>
>Proof? No? Thought so.

I need proof for this? It's well-known and general knowledge that the
Yelp review that says "Great food and great service" was probably
provided by a waiter at that restaurant. If you want an outside
opinion, see

http://kitchenette.jezebel.com/oh-look-a-company-is-paying-people-to-post-fake-yelp-r-1641909713

There are numerous other examples to be found. A restaurant that
receives a bad review on Yelp will try to offset that review, and bury
it, with a number of positive reviews from employees or family.

How many authentic Yelp reviews did *you* submit based on your
experience?

[Tony Cooper]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 09:59:21 -0500, "PAS" <nto...@optonline.net>
wrote:

>> Had the poster asked me for recommendation (fat chance!), I would have
>> suggested trying places that serve a cuisine totally different from
>> what he's used to...Sonny's for barbecue, a Cuban restaurant, a
>> Southern-style restaurant, or a Mexican restaurant (not Taco Bell!).
>> He may or may not like it, but be adventurous. Take your chances.
>> That's one of the interesting things about travel.
>
>Sonny's? I'll have to remember that name when I find myself in the area
>again.

I picked Sonny's because it is a locally-owned barbeque chain that
might be found in the tourist area. I'll go to a Sonny's when I'm out
of the Orlando area. When in the Orlando area, I'll go to Four Rivers
or Bubbalou's.

There is a Sonny's in Spring Hill.
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurants-g34652-Spring_Hill_Florida.html

[nospam]

In article <slrnmbq5...@irc.sandman.net>, Sandman

<m...@sandman.net> wrote:

> > A poster here has repeatedly whinged about not being able to find
> > good restaurants in the tourist corridor of the Orlando area.
> > Hardly surprising because 1) he was looking for good restaurants in
> > an area where simply being open is all it takes to attract
> > customers, and 2) "good" is a subjective judgment that is based
> > primarily on acquired taste.
>
> > Most adults feel that "good", in restaurant fare, is what they are
> > used to and have found to be "good" over time. A restaurant in a
> > country other than their own is not likely to serve the type of
> > dish, prepared in the way they are used to, and spiced the way they
> > are used to.
>
> Not at all. I like testing different food. Unfortunately, Americans don't
> season their food much at all, especially not in tourist-heavy areas, where
> most tourists are Americans.

that's because not everyone likes spicy food, so restaurants in
tourist-heavy areas will tend to be bland.

again, you're picking the wrong restaurants.

> Most food is super-greasy, tons of added sugar and way too sweet to eat.
> But that's not really the biggest problem (and could be filed under the
> 'this is how we "spice" things in America). The biggest probem is the
> usually really low aulity of meat, produce and things like that. It's like
> you guys add syrup, sugar and salt to hide the crappy meat that's hidden
> underneath somewhere.

not only are you piking the wrong restaurants, you're picking shitty
ones.

> > I've never used Yelp or that type of thing for a recommendation.
> > It's ridiculous to do so. Yelp recommendations are often "salted"
> > by the restaurant.
>
> Proof? No? Thought so.

it's well known.

you can generally tell the shill posts by reading them, but some are
well disguised.

> > Had the poster asked me for recommendation (fat chance!), I would
> > have suggested trying places that serve a cuisine totally different
> > from what he's used to...Sonny's for barbecue, a Cuban restaurant, a
> > Southern-style restaurant, or a Mexican restaurant (not Taco Bell!).
> > He may or may not like it, but be adventurous. Take your chances.
> > That's one of the interesting things about travel.
>
> All the places we ate at were new to us, but alas; what most of them had in
> common is the low standard meat/produce and the added sugar/salt/fish
> fetish.

then you picked the wrong ones.

> And Taco Bell most certainly served a "cuisine" totally different to what
> we're used to!

you flew all the way to the usa and went to a taco bell?? seriously???
wtf is wrong with you?

taco bell is shitty fast food. wtf did you expect?

[nospam]

In article <m9j6vr$mdi$1...@dont-email.me>, PAS <nto...@optonline.net>
wrote:

> >> While I like Carrabba's, I wouldn't recommend it to a person from
> >> Europe. American Italian-style food is not the same as what a
> >> European may be used to. Certainly not what an Italian is used to.
> >
> > Too much added sugar, usually. Same with most chinese food joints.
>
> Really? I wouldn't think that Carrabba's adds much sugar to their food.
> If I eat a chicken dish with some soup and a little pasta on the side,
> how much sugar can they add to that? Chinese food, or what passes for
> Chinese food on the USA, wreaks havoc with my blood sugar levels because
> of the sauces - lots of sugar. I stay away from it now.

you're eating at shitty chinese restaurants.

> > And Taco Bell most certainly served a "cuisine" totally different to
> > what we're used to!
>
> If I was Mexican, I'd take umbrage at Taco Bell being labeled a Mexican
> restaurant. Mexican food is extremely popular in the USA and "real"
> Mexican food has nothing in common with Taco Bell.

'real' mexican food is not very popular in the usa. most mexican places
are similar to taco bell but not as crappy. real mexican food is not
the same.

[Savageduck]

Sandman <m...@sandman.net> wrote:
> In article <tdgiba9fqjgdgo984...@4ax.com>, Andreas Skitsnack wrote:
>
> Oh, a troll thread from Andreas. Been a while.
>
>> A poster here has repeatedly whinged about not being able to find
>> good restaurants in the tourist corridor of the Orlando area.
>> Hardly surprising because 1) he was looking for good restaurants in
>> an area where simply being open is all it takes to attract
>> customers, and 2) "good" is a subjective judgment that is based
>> primarily on acquired taste.
>
>> Most adults feel that "good", in restaurant fare, is what they are
>> used to and have found to be "good" over time. A restaurant in a
>> country other than their own is not likely to serve the type of
>> dish, prepared in the way they are used to, and spiced the way they
>> are used to.
>
> Not at all. I like testing different food. Unfortunately, Americans don't
> season their food much at all, especially not in tourist-heavy areas, where
> most tourists are Americans.
>

Where did you eat, and who are these Americans who don't season their food
much at all?
It is beginning to look as if Swedes generalize with regard to restaurant
food in the USA.

> Most food is super-greasy, tons of added sugar and way too sweet to eat.
> But that's not really the biggest problem (and could be filed under the
> 'this is how we "spice" things in America). The biggest probem is the
> usually really low aulity of meat, produce and things like that. It's like
> you guys add syrup, sugar and salt to hide the crappy meat that's hidden
> underneath somewhere.
>

Again, where did you eat to come up with that idea?

>> US Chain restaurants have some advantage to the traveler. When
>> traveling in the US, I know I will find what I consider to be good
>> food in an Outback Steakhouse or a Carrabba's Italian Grill. I know
>> that the food in an Olive Garden or a Denny's is not going to be
>> something I will enjoy. I have no illusions that others will share
>> this opinion. I pick a restaurant to please me, not others.
>
> As a foreigner, this is not a viable option, since few American chains
> exists abroad.
>

That's OK! We don't see too many European chains here. However, we have all
sorts of restaurants with diverse non-American flavor.

> And even on those that do exist abroad (like McDonald's) they still are of
> lower quality in the states. FOr instance; in America, the soda is
> sweetened with syrup instead of real sugar, as opposed to most of the rest
> of the world, which means that a Coke tastes... well, worse. Also, the
> quality of produce and meat in McDonald's in US is lower than most of
> Europe.
>

McDonald's is not in anyway considered to be "good food" even in the USA.

>> While I like Carrabba's, I wouldn't recommend it to a person from
>> Europe. American Italian-style food is not the same as what a
>> European may be used to. Certainly not what an Italian is used to.
>
> Too much added sugar, usually. Same with most chinese food joints.
>

Where are these places which add all this sugar?
As for Chinese food joints, the most nasty food additive is MSG.

>> I've traveled extensively in Europe, and had both hits and misses.
>> The independently owned restaurant is more prevalent in Europe, so
>> there's no experience factor involved in choosing restaurants. In
>> Europe, the full parking lot and the presence of a crowd in a
>> restaurant is not a dependable way to choose. The better
>> restaurants often don't have on-site parking, and the crowd in the
>> place only means that this restaurant offers what the local crowd
>> likes. That can be quite different from the style of food that I
>> like.
>
> Plus, Europe is such a diverse place, where food culture changes ever X
> miles you travel, most times significantly.

...and the USA isn't a diverse place?? Tell that to the Thai, Cambodians,
Hmong, Japanese, Chinese, French, Irish, Italians, Spanish, Koreans,
Greeks, Moroccans, various Central & South Americans, even Swedes, Danes,
Norwegians, and others from countries too numerous to list. Many of them
specialize in serving their national cuisine to their fellow Americans.

>But most places in Europe has good quality meat and produce to begin with,
> so whatever reason you end up
> disliking a dish has more to do with how it's done than what it was made
> of.
>
>> I've never used Yelp or that type of thing for a recommendation.
>> It's ridiculous to do so. Yelp recommendations are often "salted"
>> by the restaurant.
>
> Proof? No? Thought so.
>
>> Had the poster asked me for recommendation (fat chance!), I would
>> have suggested trying places that serve a cuisine totally different
>> from what he's used to...Sonny's for barbecue, a Cuban restaurant, a
>> Southern-style restaurant, or a Mexican restaurant (not Taco Bell!).
>> He may or may not like it, but be adventurous. Take your chances.
>> That's one of the interesting things about travel.
>
> All the places we ate at were new to us, but alas; what most of them had in
> common is the low standard meat/produce and the added sugar/salt/fish
> fetish.
>

You really didn't make the effort to seek out "good food" on your trip.
In my town, Paso Robles, at the junction of Hwy 101 & Hwy 46 I can find an
astonishing number of fast food joints, All there to take advantage of
theNorth-South L.A.-San Francisco traffic. However, if I look within a few
blocks I can find all sorts of places to eat, including two French run
places, three real Mexican food places, two very good Italian restaurants,
any many more. Always ask the locals where to eat, don't follow the herd.

> And Taco Bell most certainly served a "cuisine" totally different to what
> we're used to!
>

Taco Bell = food of the last resort.




--
Savageduck

[Whisky-dave]

On Monday, 19 January 2015 15:27:03 UTC, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On 19 Jan 2015 14:29:30 GMT, Sandman <m...@sandman.net> wrote:
>
> >In article <tdgiba9fqjgdgo984...@4ax.com>, Andreas Skitsnack wrote:
> >
> >Oh, a troll thread from Andreas. Been a while.
>
> Troll thread? I don't know what is trollish about a discussion of
> finding acceptable restaurants in an area one is not familiar with.

well this is a photography NG we should have pictures to argue over at the very least.

[Whisky-dave]

On Monday, 19 January 2015 15:14:38 UTC, PAS wrote:

>
> I don't know much about Swedish food but if I had to guess, I wouldn't
> think that the food you eat is seasoned much.

I did find swedish punch a bit spicy, well more spicy than I was expecting.
The only other swedish food I remeber meating was crayfish.

[PeterN]

On 1/19/2015 10:33 AM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 09:59:21 -0500, "PAS" <nto...@optonline.net>
> wrote:

<snip>

>>
>> Sonny's? I'll have to remember that name when I find myself in the area
>> again.
>
> I picked Sonny's because it is a locally-owned barbeque chain that
> might be found in the tourist area. I'll go to a Sonny's when I'm out
> of the Orlando area. When in the Orlando area, I'll go to Four Rivers
> or Bubbalou's.
>
> There is a Sonny's in Spring Hill.
> http://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurants-g34652-Spring_Hill_Florida.html
>

There are Sonny's all over the South.

<http://www.sonnysbbq.com/locations>

I would rate it good. Not the best, but far better than the imitations
like Famous Dave's.

One of the best I've had was Uncle Bubba's near Savannah. GA.



--
PeterN

[PAS]

"PeterN" <pete...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:m9jcs...@news3.newsguy.com...

Dave is no imitator, he's won many, many awards for his BBQ and sauces.

[PeterN]

On 1/19/2015 10:14 AM, PAS wrote:

<big brevity snip>

Chinese food, or what passes for
> Chinese food on the USA, wreaks havoc with my blood sugar levels because
> of the sauces - lots of sugar. I stay away from it now.
>

You have to get out of the East End. I agree there are no decent
authentic Chinese restaurants there.
While there is one near us, we prefer to go to Flushing, especially for
soup dumplings.
If I see a "Chinese" restaurant with table clothes and forks on the
table I don't go in.

--
PeterN

[PeterN]

Agreed.


--
PeterN

[Tony Cooper]

Never been to Ikea? I've had Ikea's Swedish Meatballs, but have
absolutely no idea if a Swede would think they were authentically
Swedish.

In Indiana, crayfish were called "crawdads" and fit only for bait to
catch something edible.

I've had crayfish (also called "crawfish") in Louisiana, and they are
anything but bland and unspiced.

[PAS]

"PeterN" <pete...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote in message

news:m9jdd...@news3.newsguy.com...

Not likely to happen - my wife is not a fan of Chinese food and rarely
will eat it. She loves Mexican, there is a small place in Eastport
called "El Rodeo" that is an authentic family-run Mexican restaurant.
I'm not too keen on Mexican food but, like most restaurants, I always
find something on the menu that I like. Speaking of finding something I
like, my wife took me to Teller's in Islip to celebrate my 55th this
weekend. Their menu has a lot of great choices for me. There's nothing
like a great steak and potatoes for me.

[PeterN]

On 1/19/2015 10:43 AM, Savageduck wrote:

<snip>

> McDonald's is not in anyway considered to be "good food" even in the USA.

However, it has clean bathrooms and surprisingly decent coffee.

>
>>> While I like Carrabba's, I wouldn't recommend it to a person from
>>> Europe. American Italian-style food is not the same as what a
>>> European may be used to. Certainly not what an Italian is used to.
>>
>> Too much added sugar, usually. Same with most chinese food joints.
>>
> Where are these places which add all this sugar?
> As for Chinese food joints, the most nasty food additive is MSG.
>
>

And cornstarch.

> You really didn't make the effort to seek out "good food" on your trip.
> In my town, Paso Robles, at the junction of Hwy 101 & Hwy 46 I can find an
> astonishing number of fast food joints, All there to take advantage of
> theNorth-South L.A.-San Francisco traffic. However, if I look within a few
> blocks I can find all sorts of places to eat, including two French run
> places, three real Mexican food places, two very good Italian restaurants,
> any many more. Always ask the locals where to eat, don't follow the herd.
>

in a small town I look for a Rotary club sign. It may not be the best,
but for a lunch it is usually passable.

>> And Taco Bell most certainly served a "cuisine" totally different to what
>> we're used to!
>>
> Taco Bell = food of the last resort.
>

I'd rather go hungry, than to Taco smell.

Fast food is neither.


--
PeterN

[PAS]

"Tony Cooper" <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:fkeqbalji7bjm9ekg...@4ax.com...

> On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 08:48:14 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave
> <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Monday, 19 January 2015 15:14:38 UTC, PAS wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I don't know much about Swedish food but if I had to guess, I
>>> wouldn't
>>> think that the food you eat is seasoned much.
>>
>>I did find swedish punch a bit spicy, well more spicy than I was
>>expecting.
>>The only other swedish food I remeber meating was crayfish.
>
> Never been to Ikea? I've had Ikea's Swedish Meatballs, but have
> absolutely no idea if a Swede would think they were authentically
> Swedish.

I sure have been there. I find their restaurant food to be pretty darn
good. I like the meatballs and they are not seasoned much which is how
I like it.

[Savageduck]

On 2015-01-19 15:14:32 +0000, "PAS" <nto...@optonline.net> said:

> "Sandman" <m...@sandman.net> wrote in message
> news:slrnmbq5...@irc.sandman.net...
>>

>> Not at all. I like testing different food. Unfortunately, Americans don't
>> season their food much at all, especially not in tourist-heavy areas, where
>> most tourists are Americans.
>
> I don't know much about Swedish food but if I had to guess, I wouldn't
> think that the food you eat is seasoned much. My not-very-educated
> impression of Swedish and Norwegian food (I know quite a few
> Norwegians) is that is is somewhat bland when it comes to seasoning and
> that's fine by me. I'm a picky eater, I don't like a lot of things and
> I am the farthest from an "adventruous eater" as you will find. Give
> me some meat and potatoes and I'm fine.

Here is what a Swedish site has to say regarding some Swedish dishes.
<https://sweden.se/collection/classic-swedish-food/>
...and;
<https://sweden.se/culture-traditions/10-things-to-know-about-swedish-food/>

Apparently Jonas is not your typical Swede.

<<Additional Snip>>

>> And Taco Bell most certainly served a "cuisine" totally different to what
>> we're used to!
>
> If I was Mexican, I'd take umbrage at Taco Bell being labeled a Mexican
> restaurant. Mexican food is extremely popular in the USA and "real"
> Mexican food has nothing in common with Taco Bell.

In Paso Robles, CA, if you were looking for Mexican food there are
several places I would recommend before you should even think of Taco
Bell, and not all of them could be bothered with a web site.

Here is one that does, La Reina Mexican Grill
<http://lareinamexicangrill.com>
...and three that don't.
La Casa De Amayah
Los Robles Cafe
Habaneros Mexican Restaurant

As for food other than Mexican, I have my favorites;
Bistro Laurent
<http://www.bistrolaurent.com>
Panolivo
<http://www.panolivo.com>
...and Artisan
<http://www.artisanpasorobles.com>

Local knowledge helps.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

[PeterN]

If you get a chance, go to Mara's in Syosset, or Dinasour, in the City.
IMHO the best is Mo Gridders. If you want to sit down and eat, there is
a room in his body shop.

<http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/24/dining/reviews/24unde.html?_r=0>

>
>> One of the best I've had was Uncle Bubba's near Savannah. GA.
>

--
PeterN

[PeterN]

On 1/19/2015 12:17 PM, PAS wrote:
> "PeterN" <pete...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:m9jdd...@news3.newsguy.com...
>> On 1/19/2015 10:14 AM, PAS wrote:
>>
>> <big brevity snip>
>>
>> Chinese food, or what passes for
>>> Chinese food on the USA, wreaks havoc with my blood sugar levels because
>>> of the sauces - lots of sugar. I stay away from it now.
>>>
>>
>> You have to get out of the East End. I agree there are no decent
>> authentic Chinese restaurants there.
>> While there is one near us, we prefer to go to Flushing, especially
>> for soup dumplings.
>> If I see a "Chinese" restaurant with table clothes and forks on the
>> table I don't go in.
>
> Not likely to happen - my wife is not a fan of Chinese food and rarely
> will eat it. She loves Mexican, there is a small place in Eastport
> called "El Rodeo" that is an authentic family-run Mexican restaurant.
> I'm not too keen on Mexican food but, like most restaurants, I always
> find something on the menu that I like.

As it is said: Happy wife, happy life.
fortunately my wife and I have similar taste in food. (Though not 100%)

Speaking of finding something I
> like, my wife took me to Teller's in Islip to celebrate my 55th this
> weekend. Their menu has a lot of great choices for me. There's nothing
> like a great steak and potatoes for me.

Happy B'Day.
I agree. Tellers is excellent. In that category, I have a personal
preference for Rothman's because it's close.

--
PeterN

[Tony Cooper]

The best barbeque that I've ever had was at Dreamland in Tuscaloosa,
Alabama. My son went to University of Alabama, and when we went up to
Tuscaloosa Dreamland was always part of the trip.

[nospam]

In article <m9jdd...@news3.newsguy.com>, PeterN

<pete...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:

> If I see a "Chinese" restaurant with table clothes and forks on the
> table I don't go in.

if you see a chinese restaurant without chinese customers in it, don't
go in.

i unfortunately was dragged to one place where not even the staff was
chinese. needless to say, it was horrible.

when i was a kid, i went to a chinese restaurant where there were no
forks at all, even if you wanted one. you either used chopsticks or you
didn't eat. not surprisingly, the food was very good.

most chinese restaurants in the usa serve americanized crap. chinese
patrons will order stuff *not* on the menu.

[nospam]

In article <m9je69$oev$1...@dont-email.me>, PAS <nto...@optonline.net>
wrote:

> > If I see a "Chinese" restaurant with table clothes and forks on the
> > table I don't go in.
>
> Not likely to happen - my wife is not a fan of Chinese food and rarely
> will eat it.

then she hasn't had good chinese food. i wasn't a fan of mexican food
until i had real mexican food.

> She loves Mexican, there is a small place in Eastport
> called "El Rodeo" that is an authentic family-run Mexican restaurant.
> I'm not too keen on Mexican food but, like most restaurants, I always
> find something on the menu that I like.

nowhere near as good as mexican food in the southwestern states,
particularly southern california.

it's like trying to find new york pizza on the west coast. some places
claim to offer it but they definitely do not. similarly, trying to find
good chicago pizza outside of chicago won't result in much success.

> Speaking of finding something I
> like, my wife took me to Teller's in Islip to celebrate my 55th this
> weekend. Their menu has a lot of great choices for me. There's nothing
> like a great steak and potatoes for me.

this place?
<http://tellerschophouse.com/>

it looks a bit better than the usual steak place and certainly more
expensive, but still boring.

[nospam]

In article <2015011909302511137-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

> Local knowledge helps.

which you won't find in yelp or some tourist book or the flyers in a
hotel.

[Tony Cooper]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 12:17:18 -0500, PeterN
<pete...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:

>On 1/19/2015 10:43 AM, Savageduck wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> McDonald's is not in anyway considered to be "good food" even in the USA.
>
>However, it has clean bathrooms and surprisingly decent coffee.
>

At my age, restroom availability is essential on road trips. I'm less
concerned than my wife about clean restrooms because I don't need to
touch anything in the room.

I usually stop in a McD's, use the restroom, buy coffee to go, and
continue the cycle. I average .5 restroom stops per gallon of gas.

>in a small town I look for a Rotary club sign. It may not be the best,
>but for a lunch it is usually passable.

That's a good tip. Never thought about it before. Visitors from
Boston might think a Rotary Club is place for people who like to drive
in circles, though.

[Tony Cooper]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 09:30:25 -0800, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

>>> Not at all. I like testing different food. Unfortunately, Americans don't
>>> season their food much at all, especially not in tourist-heavy areas, where
>>> most tourists are Americans.
>>
>> I don't know much about Swedish food but if I had to guess, I wouldn't
>> think that the food you eat is seasoned much. My not-very-educated
>> impression of Swedish and Norwegian food (I know quite a few
>> Norwegians) is that is is somewhat bland when it comes to seasoning and
>> that's fine by me. I'm a picky eater, I don't like a lot of things and
>> I am the farthest from an "adventruous eater" as you will find. Give
>> me some meat and potatoes and I'm fine.
>
>Here is what a Swedish site has to say regarding some Swedish dishes.
><https://sweden.se/collection/classic-swedish-food/>
>...and;
><https://sweden.se/culture-traditions/10-things-to-know-about-swedish-food/>
>
>Apparently Jonas is not your typical Swede.

I would hope not. Most Swedes I've met are very pleasant people.

[Tony Cooper]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 12:54:25 -0500, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article <m9jdd...@news3.newsguy.com>, PeterN
><pete...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> If I see a "Chinese" restaurant with table clothes and forks on the
>> table I don't go in.
>
>if you see a chinese restaurant without chinese customers in it, don't
>go in.

Not a good rule in this area because there are few Chinese here. It
is true of the Vietnamese restaurants, though.

[Tony Cooper]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 12:54:26 -0500, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>it's like trying to find new york pizza on the west coast. some places
>claim to offer it but they definitely do not. similarly, trying to find
>good chicago pizza outside of chicago won't result in much success.
>

I spent several years living in Chicago and was a regular at Uno's.
(Although I don't order the deep-dish style).

When Uno's opened a location here, I was delighted...until I tried it.
Terrible. It didn't last long.

New Yorkers claim it's the water in the dough in pizza and bagels that
make NY products good, but I'm not sure I buy that.

[nospam]

In article <jqiqbahbn8hfioboh...@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper

<tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >it's like trying to find new york pizza on the west coast. some places
> >claim to offer it but they definitely do not. similarly, trying to find
> >good chicago pizza outside of chicago won't result in much success.
>
> I spent several years living in Chicago and was a regular at Uno's.
> (Although I don't order the deep-dish style).

the original uno's in chicago is not the same as the chain.

i'm not fond of deep dish pizza but when done right, it's very good.

> When Uno's opened a location here, I was delighted...until I tried it.
> Terrible. It didn't last long.

uno's the chain sucks. a lot.

> New Yorkers claim it's the water in the dough in pizza and bagels that
> make NY products good, but I'm not sure I buy that.

there is definitely a difference with new york bagels and bagels made
elsewhere, and it's not just the baked or boiled difference either.

there's even a place in the midwest somewhere that makes what they call
bagels without the hole. those aren't bagels.

[nospam]

In article <bniqbalipefpr7hvi...@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper

<tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> If I see a "Chinese" restaurant with table clothes and forks on the
> >> table I don't go in.
> >
> >if you see a chinese restaurant without chinese customers in it, don't
> >go in.
>
> Not a good rule in this area because there are few Chinese here.

then the chinese food there is probably not all that great.

> It is true of the Vietnamese restaurants, though.

or cuban.

[PeterN]

So don't eat there.
Who I dine with is far more important than where I dine, and what I eat.

--
PeterN

[nospam]

In article <m9jiu...@news6.newsguy.com>, PeterN

<pete...@verizon.net> wrote:

> >> Speaking of finding something I
> >> like, my wife took me to Teller's in Islip to celebrate my 55th this
> >> weekend. Their menu has a lot of great choices for me. There's nothing
> >> like a great steak and potatoes for me.
> >
> > this place?
> > <http://tellerschophouse.com/>
> >
> > it looks a bit better than the usual steak place and certainly more
> > expensive, but still boring.
>
> So don't eat there.

i like a good steak once in a while, but it's still boring.

> Who I dine with is far more important than where I dine, and what I eat.

then go to taco bell and save your money.

[PeterN]

Well if the flour, yeastand attitude are the same, what's left?


The water only makes a difference in the dough.
IMHO this place made the only bagels I enjoyed in FL.
<http://brooklynwaterbagels.com/>

I know of several who wanted to ship NY water to FL for bagels, but the
shipment cost was crazy.


--
PeterN

[Tony Cooper]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 13:31:44 -0500, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

>In article <bniqbalipefpr7hvi...@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper
><tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >> If I see a "Chinese" restaurant with table clothes and forks on the
>> >> table I don't go in.
>> >
>> >if you see a chinese restaurant without chinese customers in it, don't
>> >go in.
>>
>> Not a good rule in this area because there are few Chinese here.
>
>then the chinese food there is probably not all that great.

Probably not at all authentic, but there are some very good Chinese
restaurants in the area. "Authentic" is not necessarily great, and
great is not necessarily authentic.

>> It is true of the Vietnamese restaurants, though.
>
>or cuban.

Visually, it's hard to tell a crowd of Puerto Ricans from a crowd of
Cubans. The women of both nationalities wouldn't be caught dead in
public not wearing stiletto heels.

[PeterN]

On 1/19/2015 12:54 PM, nospam wrote:

We haave a lot of Chinese and other Asians here. There are some
restaurants that cater to both. We used to go to a Mandarin restaurant
where the owner would order for me. He never ordered somethiing bad, or
Americanized. There are many different styles of Chinese food. Our
favorites are Hong Kong Shanghai & Mandarin. I personally prefer
sichuan, but it's much too spicy for my wife's taste.




--
PeterN

[PeterN]

On 1/19/2015 12:54 PM, nospam wrote:

However, I have found out that one can get really good places by asking
the concierge. I don't ask for a straight recommendation. i usually ask
where you you eat on a special occassion. It worked well for me in
Marbella, Amsterdam, and Orlando.

--
PeterN

[PeterN]

On 1/19/2015 1:05 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 12:17:18 -0500, PeterN
> <pete...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> On 1/19/2015 10:43 AM, Savageduck wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> McDonald's is not in anyway considered to be "good food" even in the USA.
>>
>> However, it has clean bathrooms and surprisingly decent coffee.
>>
> At my age, restroom availability is essential on road trips. I'm less
> concerned than my wife about clean restrooms because I don't need to
> touch anything in the room.

Yup!

>
> I usually stop in a McD's, use the restroom, buy coffee to go, and
> continue the cycle. I average .5 restroom stops per gallon of gas.
>

Check your PSA.

When Our daughter was about 4, we would make a pit stop, but she would
insist she didn't have to. About five minutes after we left, ..... I'm
sure you know the story. I found a sinmple solution. I bought a cheap
portable camping toilet, with a bag. I told her the next time that
happened she would have to use it. I never had to even open the box. It
was sold at our gararge sale for $5, which was more than I paid for it.
Win. Win.;-)

>> in a small town I look for a Rotary club sign. It may not be the best,
>> but for a lunch it is usually passable.
>
> That's a good tip. Never thought about it before. Visitors from
> Boston might think a Rotary Club is place for people who like to drive
> in circles, though.
>


--

PeterN

[nospam]

In article <04kqba50b6c0fp5jj...@4ax.com>, Tony Cooper

<tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >> >> If I see a "Chinese" restaurant with table clothes and forks on the
> >> >> table I don't go in.
> >> >
> >> >if you see a chinese restaurant without chinese customers in it, don't
> >> >go in.
> >>
> >> Not a good rule in this area because there are few Chinese here.
> >
> >then the chinese food there is probably not all that great.
>
> Probably not at all authentic, but there are some very good Chinese
> restaurants in the area. "Authentic" is not necessarily great, and
> great is not necessarily authentic.

depends what you call good and i'm not talking about authentic.

> >> It is true of the Vietnamese restaurants, though.
> >
> >or cuban.
>
> Visually, it's hard to tell a crowd of Puerto Ricans from a crowd of
> Cubans. The women of both nationalities wouldn't be caught dead in
> public not wearing stiletto heels.

i'm not talking about the people.

cuban food in florida is good, and something sandman should have done
rather than to go olive garden or taco bell.

i doubt there are very many cuban restaurants in sweden, if any.

[PAS]

"PeterN" <pete...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote in message

news:m9jfh...@news6.newsguy.com...

I loved Ben Benson's Steakhouse in Manhattan. It's sad that the
landlord forced him out and the restaurant closed after decades of
business.

[PAS]

"PeterN" <pete...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:m9jji...@news6.newsguy.com...

Many years ago, my first job was for a window and door manufacturer in
Hicksville. We had a small plant in Kansas City, MO. Anytime any of
traveled there on a business trip we had to bring two dozen bagels with
us. They had nothing like it there.

[PAS]

"PeterN" <pete...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote in message

news:m9jev...@news3.newsguy.com...

I've had Dinosaur's BBQ at the Big Apple BBQ Fest in Manhattan. I
thought it was exceptional.

[PeterN]

Google is your friend.
<http://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=Cuban+Restaurants&find_loc=Stockholm>

--
PeterN

[PAS]

"Tony Cooper" <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bueqba1079ambmtv6...@4ax.com...

What style of BBQ do they do? I love BBQ but I don't like the Carolina
style sauce, too much vinegar. I like the thick, sweet sauce but I have
to eat it in moderation because of all the sugar. I've never had a
taste for spicy food, it gets to me really quick. To give you an idea
how spicy food gets to me, have you ever had Popeye's spicy chicken? I
took one bite and it felt like my mouth was on fire.

[PAS]

"Tony Cooper" <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:04kqba50b6c0fp5jj...@4ax.com...

Now that's funny!

[PeterN]

i have a friend who moved to Lake Quivera, just outside KC, who said the
same thing.

--
PeterN

[nospam]

In article <m9jn3...@news4.newsguy.com>, PeterN

<pete...@verizon.net> wrote:

> > cuban food in florida is good, and something sandman should have done
> > rather than to go olive garden or taco bell.
> >
> > i doubt there are very many cuban restaurants in sweden, if any.
>
> Google is your friend.
> <http://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=Cuban+Restaurants&find_loc=Stockholm>

2 is not very many and i doubt they're any good anyway.

[PeterN]

On 1/19/2015 2:43 PM, PAS wrote:

<snip>

>
> I loved Ben Benson's Steakhouse in Manhattan. It's sad that the
> landlord forced him out and the restaurant closed after decades of
> business.

Never been there.

We usually go the the Old Homestead for steak. For seafood I like the
Oyster Bar, in Grand Central Station.




--
PeterN

[John McWilliams]

On 1/19/15 PDT 11:52 AM, PAS wrote:
> "Tony Cooper" <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>

>> The best barbeque that I've ever had was at Dreamland in Tuscaloosa,
>> Alabama. My son went to University of Alabama, and when we went up to
>> Tuscaloosa Dreamland was always part of the trip.
>
> What style of BBQ do they do? I love BBQ but I don't like the Carolina
> style sauce, too much vinegar. I like the thick, sweet sauce but I have
> to eat it in moderation because of all the sugar. I've never had a
> taste for spicy food, it gets to me really quick. To give you an idea
> how spicy food gets to me, have you ever had Popeye's spicy chicken? I
> took one bite and it felt like my mouth was on fire.

I like both, but prefer the Carolina style bbq, at least for pork.

When I have potstickers, I always ask for vinegar, and liberally dose
the 'sticker with it. Brings the flavor right up, cuts through the
oil/grease.

[PeterN]

I was in a bar in Nashville.I started a discussion about dry rub vs wet.
This led to a loud discussion. I left before it escalated and i heard
the police were called. In Nashville you can get both, and both sides
get, shall we say, passionate about it.

--
PeterN

[PeterN]

The words "if any" mean you think there are none.
I admit I don't know how good they are. What is the secret of how you know?

I have had really good Indonesian food in Amsterdam, and good Chinese
food in Lisbon, and Qubec.


--
PeterN

[PAS]

"PeterN" <pete...@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:m9jpb...@news4.newsguy.com...

I've eaten in what is arguably the best dry-rub BBQ place - Charlie
Vergos' Rendezvous in Memphis. I was not impressed but I'm not a fan of
dry-rub. I like my BBQ with some sauce caramelized on it, not just
poured onto it after it's cooked.

[Tony Cooper]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 14:32:31 -0500, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
wrote:

How can you write:

>> >> >if you see a chinese restaurant without chinese customers in it, don't
>> >> >go in.

And then say:

>i'm not talking about the people.
>

What "chinese customers" are you hoping to see in a restaurant? A
Shar Pei? A panda?

[nospam]

In article <m9jq0...@news4.newsguy.com>, PeterN

<pete...@verizon.net> wrote:

> >>> cuban food in florida is good, and something sandman should have done
> >>> rather than to go olive garden or taco bell.
> >>>
> >>> i doubt there are very many cuban restaurants in sweden, if any.
> >>
> >> Google is your friend.
> >> <http://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=Cuban+Restaurants&find_loc=Stockholm>
> >
> > 2 is not very many and i doubt they're any good anyway.
> >
> The words "if any" mean you think there are none.

i didn't think there would be. as usual, you're arguing just to argue.

> I admit I don't know how good they are. What is the secret of how you know?

because it's nowhere near cuba. duh.

do you think mexican food in italy is going to be any good?

> I have had really good Indonesian food in Amsterdam, and good Chinese
> food in Lisbon, and Qubec.

so what? cuban food is a lot less common than chinese.

[Savageduck]

On 2015-01-19 18:48:35 +0000, PeterN <pete...@verizon.net> said:

> On 1/19/2015 1:24 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 12:54:26 -0500, nospam <nos...@nospam.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> it's like trying to find new york pizza on the west coast. some places
>>> claim to offer it but they definitely do not. similarly, trying to find
>>> good chicago pizza outside of chicago won't result in much success.
>>>
>>
>> I spent several years living in Chicago and was a regular at Uno's.
>> (Although I don't order the deep-dish style).
>>
>> When Uno's opened a location here, I was delighted...until I tried it.
>> Terrible. It didn't last long.
>>
>> New Yorkers claim it's the water in the dough in pizza and bagels that
>> make NY products good, but I'm not sure I buy that.
>>
>>
> Well if the flour, yeastand attitude are the same, what's left?

Proportions of the ingredients, and the NYC hand gestures while preparing.

> The water only makes a difference in the dough.
> IMHO this place made the only bagels I enjoyed in FL.
> <http://brooklynwaterbagels.com/>
>
> I know of several who wanted to ship NY water to FL for bagels, but the
> shipment cost was crazy.

If we can have a pipeline for Canadian oil, why not one for NYC water.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

[Savageduck]

The Puerto Ricans wear cotton & a cheaper grade of plated jewelry.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

[PAS]

"Tony Cooper" <tonyco...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:hsrqbadet3rggisj6...@4ax.com...

I've got three Shar Peis. I'd be afraid to bring them into a Chinese
restaurant.

[PeterN]

I like both, depending on my mood. But I do not like the sauce dripping.
I freely admit that any time I eat something with dripping sauce, my dry
cleaning bills go up.

--
PeterN

[nospam]

In article <m9js8...@news6.newsguy.com>, PeterN

<pete...@verizon.net> wrote:

> > I've eaten in what is arguably the best dry-rub BBQ place - Charlie
> > Vergos' Rendezvous in Memphis. I was not impressed but I'm not a fan of
> > dry-rub. I like my BBQ with some sauce caramelized on it, not just
> > poured onto it after it's cooked.
>
> I like both, depending on my mood. But I do not like the sauce dripping.
> I freely admit that any time I eat something with dripping sauce, my dry
> cleaning bills go up.

slob.

[PeterN]

On 1/19/2015 4:03 PM, nospam wrote:
> In article <m9jq0...@news4.newsguy.com>, PeterN
> <pete...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>>>> cuban food in florida is good, and something sandman should have done
>>>>> rather than to go olive garden or taco bell.
>>>>>
>>>>> i doubt there are very many cuban restaurants in sweden, if any.
>>>>
>>>> Google is your friend.
>>>> <http://www.yelp.com/search?find_desc=Cuban+Restaurants&find_loc=Stockholm>
>>>
>>> 2 is not very many and i doubt they're any good anyway.
>>>
>> The words "if any" mean you think there are none.
>
> i didn't think there would be. as usual, you're arguing just to argue.
>
>> I admit I don't know how good they are. What is the secret of how you know?
>
> because it's nowhere near cuba. duh.

see below.

>
> do you think mexican food in italy is going to be any good?
>
>> I have had really good Indonesian food in Amsterdam, and good Chinese
>> food in Lisbon, and Qubec.
>
> so what? cuban food is a lot less common than chinese.
>

There are less Cubans than Chinese.

--
PeterN

[Tony Cooper]

On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 08:43:26 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave
<whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, 19 January 2015 15:27:03 UTC, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On 19 Jan 2015 14:29:30 GMT, Sandman <m...@sandman.net> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <tdgiba9fqjgdgo984...@4ax.com>, Andreas Skitsnack wrote:
>> >
>> >Oh, a troll thread from Andreas. Been a while.
>>
>> Troll thread? I don't know what is trollish about a discussion of
>> finding acceptable restaurants in an area one is not familiar with.
>
>well this is a photography NG we should have pictures to argue over at the very least.
>

I haven't found restaurants to be interesting as a photographic
subject, but this is a candid taken in a Wendy's
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3wjqqruj8gue52f/2012-07-05-33-3.jpg?dl=0

And this is a candid taken at a food truck here in town that kinda
ties in with the gun thread comments

https://www.dropbox.com/s/syb3ccf9hgiqr8o/2012-07-07-01.jpg?dl=0

[PeterN]

It would create jobs.

--
PeterN

[Savageduck]

The Dutch have a tradition of Malay, Surinam and Indonesian cuisine due
to their colonial history since the 1600's. As a result they have quite
a large local population of folks of Malay, Surinam, and Indonesian
descent. When in the Netherlands and you want that type of food, just
look for, or ask for rijstafel. My wife due to spending time in
Singapore as a child, had a fondness for rijstafel.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rijsttafel>

--
Regards,

Savageduck

[PAS]

"PeterN" <pete...@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:m9js8...@news6.newsguy.com...

It ain't BBQ unless you get some on you.

[PeterN]

Nor do they have as many antique cars.

--
PeterN

[PeterN]

Priss

--
PeterN

[Savageduck]

...but they have cornered the market on '57 Chevies.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

[PeterN]

I know the reason. Just wanted to see if nospm did. His response makes
the answer to my question, obvious.

--
PeterN

[Savageduck]

Nice Springfield '03. What was the food like?

--
Regards,

Savageduck

[nospam]

In article <m9jsc...@news6.newsguy.com>, PeterN

<pete...@verizon.net> wrote:

> There are less Cubans than Chinese.

fewer.

[Savageduck]

Except in Florida.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

[Sandman]

In article <m9j6vr$mdi$1...@dont-email.me>, PAS wrote:

> > > Andreas Skitsnack:
> > > A poster here has repeatedly whinged about not being able to
> > > find good restaurants in the tourist corridor of the Orlando
> > > area. Hardly surprising because 1) he was looking for good
> > > restaurants in an area where simply being open is all it takes
> > > to attract customers, and 2) "good" is a subjective judgment
> > > that is based primarily on acquired taste.
> >
> > > Most adults feel that "good", in restaurant fare, is what they
> > > are used to and have found to be "good" over time. A restaurant
> > > in a country other than their own is not likely to serve the
> > > type of dish, prepared in the way they are used to, and spiced
> > > the way they are used to.
> >
> > Sandman:
> > Not at all. I like testing different food. Unfortunately,
> > Americans don't season their food much at all, especially not in
> > tourist-heavy areas, where most tourists are Americans.
>
> I don't know much about Swedish food but if I had to guess, I
> wouldn't think that the food you eat is seasoned much.

True, swedes aren't known for spicy food so to speak. Swedish "husmanskost"
is often traditional and high in fat (for the farmers back in the day), but
modern versions of the dishes are not very fat at all. But while Swedes may
not season the food all that much, you have to realize that the high
quality of swedish meat gives enough of a taste in itself.

> My not-very-educated impression of Swedish and Norwegian food (I know
> quite a few Norwegians) is that is is somewhat bland when it comes to
> seasoning and that's fine by me. I'm a picky eater, I don't like a lot
> of things and I am the farthest from an "adventruous eater" as you will
> find. Give me some meat and potatoes and I'm fine.

I wouldn't call it "bland" though, but tastes vary of course. Swedes are
fond of fish, and usually well seasoned. Especially the pickled herring is
heavily seasoned, and is more or less a national dish for larger occasions
(midsummer's eve, christmas eve etc).

And a dish of swedish meatballs made from prime ground beef and with fresh
mashed potatoes and lingonberry jam. Everywhere else I've tasted this (to a
swede, really mundane dish) it's bland, but in Sweden, it has real taste.

> > Sandman:
> > As a foreigner, this is not a viable option, since few American
> > chains exists abroad.
>
> > And even on those that do exist abroad (like McDonald's) they
> > still are of lower quality in the states. FOr instance; in
> > America, the soda is sweetened with syrup instead of real sugar,
> > as opposed to most of the rest of the world, which means that a
> > Coke tastes... well, worse. Also, the quality of produce and meat
> > in McDonald's in US is lower than most of Europe.
>
> We're finally seeing things turn around a bit. More and more
> products are using sugar now instead of corn syrup.

Oh? Well, congratulations! :-D

> > > Andreas Skitsnack:
> > > While I like Carrabba's, I wouldn't recommend it to a person
> > > from Europe. American Italian-style food is not the same as
> > > what a European may be used to. Certainly not what an Italian
> > > is used to.
> >
> > Sandman:
> > Too much added sugar, usually. Same with most chinese food joints.
>
> Really? I wouldn't think that Carrabba's adds much sugar to their
> food.

Sorry, I meant generally, not specifically about that particular resturant.
Generally, the food in America is heavily loaded with sugar. And not only
on the tourist strips. I had a dish of Teriyaki Chicken in Salt Lake City
once, it was so sweet I could hardly finnish the dish.

> If I eat a chicken dish with some soup and a little pasta on
> the side, how much sugar can they add to that?

Well not any, if you ask me. It seems that Americans can find a way! :-D

> Chinese food, or what passes for Chinese food on the USA, wreaks havoc
> with my blood sugar levels because of the sauces - lots of sugar. I stay
> away from it now.

Good choice :)

> > > Andreas Skitsnack:
> > > Had the poster asked me for recommendation (fat chance!), I
> > > would have suggested trying places that serve a cuisine totally
> > > different from what he's used to...Sonny's for barbecue, a Cuban
> > > restaurant, a Southern-style restaurant, or a Mexican restaurant
> > > (not Taco Bell!). He may or may not like it, but be adventurous.
> > > Take your chances. That's one of the interesting things about
> > > travel.
> >
> > Sandman:
> > All the places we ate at were new to us, but alas; what most of
> > them had in common is the low standard meat/produce and the added
> > sugar/salt/fish fetish.
>
> > And Taco Bell most certainly served a "cuisine" totally different
> > to what we're used to!
>
> If I was Mexican, I'd take umbrage at Taco Bell being labeled a
> Mexican restaurant. Mexican food is extremely popular in the USA
> and "real" Mexican food has nothing in common with Taco Bell.

I would hope not, or all Mexican's eat food that taste like it was found in
the backyard after a storm. :)


--
Sandman[.net]

[Sandman]

In article <fkeqbalji7bjm9ekg...@4ax.com>, Andreas Skitsnack wrote:

> > > PAS:

> > > I don't know much about Swedish food but if I had to guess, I
> > > wouldn't think that the food you eat is seasoned much.
> >

> > Whisky-dave:
> > I did find swedish punch a bit spicy, well more spicy than I was
> > expecting. The only other swedish food I remeber meating was
> > crayfish.
>
> Never been to Ikea? I've had Ikea's Swedish Meatballs, but have
> absolutely no idea if a Swede would think they were authentically
> Swedish.

The meatballs in IKEA restaurants in Sweden is rather ok, not like real
homemade, but passable. I couldn't say wheather the meatballs in IKEA's
abroad taste similarly.

That said, while the swedish meatball may be our most known "dish", it is
considered a rather mundande dish in sweden. It's the kind of dish I make
for the kids (they love it), but not something you make for the family
usually.

> In Indiana, crayfish were called "crawdads" and fit only for bait to
> catch something edible.

> I've had crayfish (also called "crawfish") in Louisiana, and they
> are anything but bland and unspiced.

Crayfish has a season of its own here in Sweden, and we have the
"Kräftskiva" which translates to something like "Crayfish party", where
lots of friends and family come over and sit around huge bowls filled with
crayfish in salty water, as well as shrimp. Usually served with cheese and
crackers as well.

It's usually the kind of eating party you see in those stereotypical
italian scenes, with the whole family joined at the table, picking food
from the center. It's a really nice tradition. And it's really good as
well.


--
Sandman[.net]

[Sandman]

In article <ji5qbalsuasep8re9...@4ax.com>, Andreas Skitsnack wrote:

> What is trollish is making sweeping generalizations about the food
> quality and restaurant quality of a country based on a visit to one
> touristy area of that country. And, one based on what were
> evidently choices of places made haphazardly. Your extensive
> complaints an example of shirt-tail dragging.

Haha! I've been to more places than one in America, so the opinions of the
american cousiine is based on them all. That said, I'm not really
"complaining". I am just telling people what I think of the food when they
ask, or making an joke. I didn't start a new thread in a photography group
to "complain" about the food.

> > Sandman:
> > Not at all. I like testing different food. Unfortunately,
> > Americans don't season their food much at all, especially not in
> > tourist-heavy areas, where most tourists are Americans.
>

> If you are referring to the Disney World area, you are correct that
> "most" tourists are Americans. Between 18% and 22% of the tourists
> who visit there are from other countries.

Indeed.

> However, you are making the typical small European country
> assumption that there is no regional diversity in culinary styles in
> the US.

Can you quote this assumption of mine?

> Yet, this is as marked in the US as it is in Italy where
> northern cuisine is different from southern cuisine...but more
> extensive because the US is larger.

Problem for a tourist, especially a foreign tourist, is that it's hard to
know what restaurant that may or may not serve some "local" cousine that
may or may not be better than the "average" american cousine.

> The tourist area restaurant operator, though, cooks for some
> unattainable level of pleasing everyone.

It's the other way around, if you ask me. They "cook" for the lowest common
denominator, and since most tourists are americans, that means a lot of
sugar, fat, grease, syrup, deep-frying and whatnot.

> > Sandman:
> > The biggest probem is the usually really low aulity of meat,
> > produce and things like that.
>
> There is a significant difference between grain-fed beef and
> corn-fed beef. Corn-fed beef is more expensive and more difficult
> to find in Florida. Only the top-end restaurants offer corn-fed
> beef.

Ok, help me understand this here. We don't have "meat farms" in Sweden that
way you do in the states. But our cattle are fed by grazing in pastures,
and the livestock is owned by farmers. I think this is a huge difference in
meat culture between America and well - most of the rest of the world,
really.

I usually buy meat that is local, I go down to a food hall and buy prime
beef that is fresh and tastes awesome.

> Produce quality, the things you mostly see in the salad course, also
> vary regionally in the US. Florida restaurants generally buy
> locally grown products because of shipping costs, and tomatoes,
> lettuce, and that sort of this don't have the same quality if grown
> in the sandy soil of Florida. Midwestern tomatoes, for example, are
> far superior to Florida-grown tomatoes.

Maybe. I think most of the problems with produce when I've been there is
that it has never tasted fresh.

> > > Andreas Skitsnack:
> > > US Chain restaurants have some advantage to the traveler.

> >
> > Sandman:
> > As a foreigner, this is not a viable option, since few American
> > chains exists abroad.
>
> > And even on those that do exist abroad (like McDonald's) they
> > still are of lower quality in the states.
>

> You are in very small company if you consider a McDonald's to be a
> "restaurant" or any type of benchmark. We refer to McDonald's as a
> "fast-food restaurant" and only include "restaurant" in the term
> because there is no convenient term to replace it. However, the
> inclusion of "fast-food" sets it completely apart from the single
> word "restaurant".

Of course - I meant only to say that even in McDonald's, the quality is a
lot better in Sweden than in the states. First of all, we use real sugar in
our sodas, and secondly, we use swedish meat in our patties. I would not,
however, call McDonald's *good* food, regardless of location. Just wanted
to highlight that the higher quality standard is reflected even in american
food chains in sweden.

> > Sandman:

> > FOr instance; in America, the soda is sweetened with syrup
> > instead of real sugar, as opposed to most of the rest of the
> > world, which means that a Coke tastes... well, worse.
>

> Just above you've complained about the high sugar content in our
> food.

Yeah? I don't drink soda's myself. This was just a "for instance".

> > Sandman:

> > Also, the quality of produce and meat in McDonald's in US is lower
> > than most of Europe.
>

> That's a laughable statement to an American. Of course it is. What
> do you expect for a 99 cent hamburger? Or anything served in a
> fast-food restaurant?

That's the point. Even in a cheap hamburger here in Sweden, the meat is
still high-quality and actually taste like... well, meat.

> > > Andreas Skitsnack:
> > > I've traveled extensively in Europe, and had both hits and
> > > misses.
> >
> > Sandman:
> > Plus, Europe is such a diverse place, where food culture changes
> > ever X miles you travel,
>
> If you are not aware that this is also true in the US, it is because
> 1) you've not traveled enough in the US, and 2) your selection of
> restaurants is at fault.

While I have no problem realizing that food culture changes in America as
well, I have a hard time thinking it's even close to the scale of Europe,
where every country has a very local and very specific cousine, and mostly
totally unlike what is found across the border, just X miles away.

> > > Andreas Skitsnack:
> > > I've never used Yelp or that type of thing for a recommendation.
> > > It's ridiculous to do so. Yelp recommendations are often
> > > "salted" by the restaurant.
> >
> > Sandman:
> > Proof? No? Thought so.
>
> I need proof for this?

Yup. Or rephrase it as an opinion or a suspicion.

> It's well-known and general knowledge that the Yelp review that says
> "Great food and great service" was probably provided by a waiter at that
> restaurant. If you want an outside opinion, see

"well known" and "probably"... Hmm, no proof there.

> http://kitchenette.jezebel.com/oh-look-a-company-is-paying-people-to-post-fake-yelp-r-1641909713

Which is illegal and Yelp is doing their best to vet them out. Read more
about it here:

http://officialblog.yelp.com/2013/11/yelp-recommended-reviews.html

That said, some people will always try to game these review sites, and some
"attack" may be successful to begin with, but most of these sites work hard
to prevent and work against it.

> There are numerous other examples to be found. A restaurant that
> receives a bad review on Yelp will try to offset that review, and
> bury it, with a number of positive reviews from employees or family.

Any examples?

> How many authentic Yelp reviews did *you* submit based on your
> experience?

Only one. In fact, I asked about recommendations for restaurants in another
group and someone there told me that using Yelp could at least give an
indication.

The review was a one-star review (apparently, you can't give negative
stars, or they would have gotten -100 stars or something). So I was late to
the game.

I have used Tripadvisor in the past as well.


--
Sandman[.net]

[Sandman]

In article <190120151035409068%nos...@nospam.invalid>, nospam wrote:

> > Sandman:
> > Not at all. I like testing different food. Unfortunately,
> > Americans don't season their food much at all, especially not in
> > tourist-heavy areas, where most tourists are Americans.
>

> that's because not everyone likes spicy food, so restaurants in
> tourist-heavy areas will tend to be bland.

> again, you're picking the wrong restaurants.

And, as I've said many times now, picking the "right" restaurant is pretty
hard for a foreigner with limited time to do any research, which is my
point. If you were in downtown Västerås (where I live) and picked a
restaurant at random, you'd be sure that it has great quality food.

That said, it's not certain that *you* may like the food, but the
ingredient quality will be top notch.

> > Sandman:
> > Most food is super-greasy, tons of added sugar and way too sweet
> > to eat. But that's not really the biggest problem (and could be
> > filed under the 'this is how we "spice" things in America). The

> > biggest probem is the usually really low aulity of meat, produce

> > and things like that. It's like you guys add syrup, sugar and
> > salt to hide the crappy meat that's hidden underneath somewhere.
>
> not only are you piking the wrong restaurants, you're picking shitty
> ones.

Yeah, but who's to blame? Me for not knowing, or for the fact that there
are way too many shitty restaurants around?

> > > Andreas Skitsnack:
> > > I've never used Yelp or that type of thing for a recommendation.
> > > It's ridiculous to do so. Yelp recommendations are often
> > > "salted" by the restaurant.
> >
> > Sandman:
> > Proof? No? Thought so.
>

> it's well known.

I.e. no proof.

> > > Andreas Skitsnack:
> > > Had the poster asked me for recommendation (fat chance!), I
> > > would have suggested trying places that serve a cuisine totally
> > > different from what he's used to...Sonny's for barbecue, a Cuban
> > > restaurant, a Southern-style restaurant, or a Mexican restaurant
> > > (not Taco Bell!). He may or may not like it, but be adventurous.
> > > Take your chances. That's one of the interesting things about
> > > travel.
> >
> > Sandman:
> > All the places we ate at were new to us, but alas; what most of
> > them had in common is the low standard meat/produce and the added
> > sugar/salt/fish fetish.
>

> then you picked the wrong ones.

Déjà vü.

> > Sandman:

> > And Taco Bell most certainly served a "cuisine" totally different
> > to what we're used to!
>

> you flew all the way to the usa and went to a taco bell??
> seriously??? wtf is wrong with you?

> taco bell is shitty fast food. wtf did you expect?

Oh no, don't give me that! Shitty fast food has it's place. Taco Bell is a
LOT worse than shitty fast food. It was the worst thing I've put in my
mouth in a long time.

McDonald's is hitty fast food, and it has its place, and is edible when in
a hurry or for other reasons. Taco Bell is a *punishment* to the taste
buds. Taco Bell was horrible goo that they surely found lying in the back
trash bin from another fast food restaurant.

And why did we go there? Well, me and my son had been shopping, and he was
hungry. When driving along, I recognized the logo and thought, why not?
I've seen it in movies, and it's apparently a pretty popular place seeing
how there is one in every intersection pretty much. How bad can it be,
really?

My god, how bad can it be? Worse! It can be the worst food you've ever
tasted my gullible little swedish tourist! It can be the spawn of Swamp
Thing run through a blender and served in a taco bread.


--
Sandman[.net]

[Sandman]

In article <124556293443371721.563399savageduck1-{removespam}me....@news.panic.com>, Savageduck wrote:

> > Sandman:
> > Not at all. I like testing different food. Unfortunately,
> > Americans don't season their food much at all, especially not in
> > tourist-heavy areas, where most tourists are Americans.
>

> Where did you eat

I don't remember all the places right now, unfortunately.

> and who are these Americans who don't season
> their food much at all?

I didn't catch their names. :)

> It is beginning to look as if Swedes
> generalize with regard to restaurant food in the USA.

I think most europeans do.

> > Sandman:
> > Most food is super-greasy, tons of added sugar and way too sweet
> > to eat. But that's not really the biggest problem (and could be
> > filed under the 'this is how we "spice" things in America). The
> > biggest probem is the usually really low aulity of meat, produce
> > and things like that. It's like you guys add syrup, sugar and
> > salt to hide the crappy meat that's hidden underneath somewhere.
>

> Again, where did you eat to come up with that idea?

In the tourist areas around Orlando.

> > > Andreas Skitsnack:
> > > US Chain restaurants have some advantage to the traveler. When
> > > traveling in the US, I know I will find what I consider to be
> > > good food in an Outback Steakhouse or a Carrabba's Italian
> > > Grill. I know that the food in an Olive Garden or a Denny's is
> > > not going to be something I will enjoy. I have no illusions
> > > that others will share this opinion. I pick a restaurant to
> > > please me, not others.

> >
> > Sandman:
> > As a foreigner, this is not a viable option, since few American
> > chains exists abroad.
>

> That's OK! We don't see too many European chains here. However, we
> have all sorts of restaurants with diverse non-American flavor.

Cool. I hope you're not talking about things like Taco Bell here. :-D

> > Sandman:

> > And even on those that do exist abroad (like McDonald's) they

> > still are of lower quality in the states. FOr instance; in

> > America, the soda is sweetened with syrup instead of real sugar,
> > as opposed to most of the rest of the world, which means that a

> > Coke tastes... well, worse. Also, the quality of produce and meat

> > in McDonald's in US is lower than most of Europe.
>

> McDonald's is not in anyway considered to be "good food" even in the
> USA.

Not in Sweden either. But the point was that the *meat* is high quality in
Sweden, as opposed to in America.

> > > Andreas Skitsnack:
> > > While I like Carrabba's, I wouldn't recommend it to a person
> > > from Europe. American Italian-style food is not the same as
> > > what a European may be used to. Certainly not what an Italian
> > > is used to.
> >
> > Sandman:
> > Too much added sugar, usually. Same with most chinese food joints.
>

> Where are these places which add all this sugar? As for Chinese food
> joints, the most nasty food additive is MSG.

MSG?

> > > Andreas Skitsnack:
> > > I've traveled extensively in Europe, and had both hits and

> > > misses. The independently owned restaurant is more prevalent in
> > > Europe, so there's no experience factor involved in choosing
> > > restaurants. In Europe, the full parking lot and the presence
> > > of a crowd in a restaurant is not a dependable way to choose.
> > > The better restaurants often don't have on-site parking, and the
> > > crowd in the place only means that this restaurant offers what
> > > the local crowd likes. That can be quite different from the
> > > style of food that I like.

> >
> > Sandman:
> > Plus, Europe is such a diverse place, where food culture changes

> > ever X miles you travel, most times significantly.
>
> ...and the USA isn't a diverse place?? Tell that to the Thai,
> Cambodians, Hmong, Japanese, Chinese, French, Irish, Italians,
> Spanish, Koreans, Greeks, Moroccans, various Central & South
> Americans, even Swedes, Danes, Norwegians, and others from countries
> too numerous to list. Many of them specialize in serving their
> national cuisine to their fellow Americans.

Not in the tourist strips in Orlando...

> > > Andreas Skitsnack:
> > > Had the poster asked me for recommendation (fat chance!), I
> > > would have suggested trying places that serve a cuisine totally
> > > different from what he's used to...Sonny's for barbecue, a Cuban
> > > restaurant, a Southern-style restaurant, or a Mexican restaurant
> > > (not Taco Bell!). He may or may not like it, but be adventurous.
> > > Take your chances. That's one of the interesting things about
> > > travel.
> >
> > Sandman:
> > All the places we ate at were new to us, but alas; what most of
> > them had in common is the low standard meat/produce and the added
> > sugar/salt/fish fetish.
>

> You really didn't make the effort to seek out "good food" on your
> trip.

How would I have gone about to do just that, mr Duck? I mean, we mostly had
a very limited time frame going from the parks to the hotel for planning
our dinner, so for someone pressed for time and no knowledge about which
restaurants are good and which are bad, how would one attain that
knowledge?

> In my town, Paso Robles, at the junction of Hwy 101 & Hwy 46 I
> can find an astonishing number of fast food joints, All there to
> take advantage of theNorth-South L.A.-San Francisco traffic.
> However, if I look within a few blocks I can find all sorts of
> places to eat, including two French run places, three real Mexican
> food places, two very good Italian restaurants, any many more.
> Always ask the locals where to eat, don't follow the herd.

There was no herd to "follow". We're in a car, going from the Disney park
to our hotel. Along that trip there is a very long strip with tons of
restaurants on it. What locals should I have asked?

> > Sandman:
> > And Taco Bell most certainly served a "cuisine" totally different
> > to what we're used to!
>

> Taco Bell = food of the last resort.

Taco Bell = Food is not on the menu.


--
Sandman[.net]

[Whisky-dave]

On Monday, 19 January 2015 18:09:54 UTC, Tony Cooper wrote:

> On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 09:30:25 -0800, Savageduck
> <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Not at all. I like testing different food. Unfortunately, Americans don't
> >>> season their food much at all, especially not in tourist-heavy areas, where
> >>> most tourists are Americans.
> >>

> >> I don't know much about Swedish food but if I had to guess, I wouldn't

> >> think that the food you eat is seasoned much. My not-very-educated

> >> impression of Swedish and Norwegian food (I know quite a few
> >> Norwegians) is that is is somewhat bland when it comes to seasoning and
> >> that's fine by me. I'm a picky eater, I don't like a lot of things and
> >> I am the farthest from an "adventruous eater" as you will find. Give
> >> me some meat and potatoes and I'm fine.
> >

> >Here is what a Swedish site has to say regarding some Swedish dishes.
> ><https://sweden.se/collection/classic-swedish-food/>
> >...and;
> ><https://sweden.se/culture-traditions/10-things-to-know-about-swedish-food/>
> >
> >Apparently Jonas is not your typical Swede.
>
> I would hope not. Most Swedes I've met are very pleasant people.

> --
> Tony Cooper - Orlando FL

+1 sometimes you actually miss the 'Like' button on FB.

[Whisky-dave]

On Monday, 19 January 2015 21:20:06 UTC, peterN wrote:

> >
>
> There are less Cubans than Chinese.

Aren't there less of every nationality than chinese.

or put it another way there are more chinzes than any other single nationaity .

[Whisky-dave]

I was trying to read what the notice says on the back of the guy ordering says.

Here;'s one of my local resturants.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/whiskydave/2860379428/in/photostream/lightbox/

It had specail opining offers :-)

[PAS]

"Sandman" <m...@sandman.net> wrote in message
news:slrnmbs3...@irc.sandman.net...

Monosodium glutamate. It enhances flavor, Chinese food is notorious for
having large amounts of it. A lot of packaged foods contain it. My
wife cannot tolerate it, she gets headaches from it. A large dose in
food will cause much more than a headache. Fortunately, the effects
don't last long for her but it's still bad for the short time it does
affect her.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate

[PAS]

"Whisky-dave" <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bd3407c5-9bbd-42b3...@googlegroups.com...

I was in London in 2009, I stayed in Hammersmith. I ate a far amount of
meals at a Turkish restaurant we found. I noticed a very large number
of Turkish restaurants in Hammersmith.

[Sandman]

In article <m9lmoi$kr6$1...@dont-email.me>, PAS wrote:

> > > Savageduck:

> > > Where are these places which add all this sugar? As for Chinese
> > > food joints, the most nasty food additive is MSG.
> >

> > Sandman:

> > MSG?
>
> Monosodium glutamate. It enhances flavor, Chinese food is notorious
> for having large amounts of it. A lot of packaged foods contain
> it. My wife cannot tolerate it, she gets headaches from it. A
> large dose in food will cause much more than a headache.
> Fortunately, the effects don't last long for her but it's still bad
> for the short time it does affect her.

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate

Oh, "Umami". Sweden has very tight regulations about additives in food, and
umami is not amongst them. There have been debate about it, of course, but
no scientific reports point to umami (or MSG) being anything but a natural
additive.

It is allowed in all food where additives are allowed.



--
Sandman[.net]

[George Kerby]

On 1/19/15 10:48 AM, in article
65b82fcc-0600-462c...@googlegroups.com, "Whisky-dave"
<whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Monday, 19 January 2015 15:14:38 UTC, PAS wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't know much about Swedish food but if I had to guess, I wouldn't
>> think that the food you eat is seasoned much.
>

> I did find swedish punch a bit spicy, well more spicy than I was expecting.
> The only other swedish food I remeber meating was crayfish.
>

I particularly like the horsemeat meatballs at IKEA! LOL!!!

[Whisky-dave]

Well horsemeat insn't that bad if it's human consumption horsemeat, what worries me was teh test on takeaways where they couldn't decide what the meat was.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2606513/FSA-huge-food-fraud-using-substitute-meat.html

[Tony Cooper]

On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 04:16:11 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave

<whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, 19 January 2015 21:20:18 UTC, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Jan 2015 08:43:26 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave
>> <whisk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>
>> >well this is a photography NG we should have pictures to argue over at the very least.
>> >
>>
>> I haven't found restaurants to be interesting as a photographic
>> subject, but this is a candid taken in a Wendy's
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3wjqqruj8gue52f/2012-07-05-33-3.jpg?dl=0
>>
>> And this is a candid taken at a food truck here in town that kinda
>> ties in with the gun thread comments
>>
>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/syb3ccf9hgiqr8o/2012-07-07-01.jpg?dl=0
>
>I was trying to read what the notice says on the back of the guy ordering says.

The photo was taken outside of a building where a gun show was being
held. The man ordering at the window is a vendor/exhibitor, and
that's his identification as such.

At other shows, the exhibitors wear small badges dangling from
lanyards around the neck. However, at a gun show, you need large
placards front and back because gun enthusiasts tend to shoot first
and look at the small print later.

[Tony Cooper]

On 20 Jan 2015 08:02:30 GMT, Sandman <m...@sandman.net> wrote:

>In article <ji5qbalsuasep8re9...@4ax.com>, Andreas Skitsnack wrote:
>
>> What is trollish is making sweeping generalizations about the food
>> quality and restaurant quality of a country based on a visit to one
>> touristy area of that country. And, one based on what were
>> evidently choices of places made haphazardly. Your extensive
>> complaints an example of shirt-tail dragging.
>
>Haha! I've been to more places than one in America, so the opinions of the
>american cousiine is based on them all. That said, I'm not really
>"complaining".

If not, you do a remarkably good job of appearing to do so.

>I am just telling people what I think of the food when they
>ask,

Who asked? You originated comments about the "horrible" food you
encountered in Florida. Who asked or gives a rat's ass about your
experiences? Those of us who either live in Florida or are familiar
with how to find better restaurants than you managed to do, are not
interested.

> or making an joke. I didn't start a new thread in a photography group
>to "complain" about the food.

Nor did I. I started a thread that contained suggestions on how to
find better restaurants when traveling.

>> Yet, this is as marked in the US as it is in Italy where
>> northern cuisine is different from southern cuisine...but more
>> extensive because the US is larger.
>
>Problem for a tourist, especially a foreign tourist, is that it's hard to
>know what restaurant that may or may not serve some "local" cousine that
>may or may not be better than the "average" american cousine.
>
>> The tourist area restaurant operator, though, cooks for some
>> unattainable level of pleasing everyone.
>
>It's the other way around, if you ask me. They "cook" for the lowest common
>denominator, and since most tourists are americans, that means a lot of
>sugar, fat, grease, syrup, deep-frying and whatnot.

What confuses you about "pleasing everyone" and "lowest common
denominator" not being the same thing? The "lowest common
denominator" (when not used in a maths reference) is the level that
appeals to the most people.

>> > Sandman:
>> > The biggest probem is the usually really low aulity of meat,
>> > produce and things like that.
>>
>> There is a significant difference between grain-fed beef and
>> corn-fed beef. Corn-fed beef is more expensive and more difficult
>> to find in Florida. Only the top-end restaurants offer corn-fed
>> beef.
>
>Ok, help me understand this here. We don't have "meat farms" in Sweden

That term is not used in the US. Beef cattle are owned by ranchers in
the US. Ranchers are in the livestock business and farmers are in the
agricultural business. We do use "fish farm", "pig farms", and "milk
farms", but not "beef farms".

> that
>way you do in the states. But our cattle are fed by grazing in pastures,

Grass will not sustain a large herd of beef cattle. They are fed
supplemental products; grain in some parts of the country and corn in
other parts of the country. Grass-fed beef, unless the animal is part
of a very small group and is pastured in a large area, is tough and
flavorless.

>and the livestock is owned by farmers. I think this is a huge difference in
>meat culture between America and well - most of the rest of the world,
>really.

Livestock may be owned by farmers, but a farmer's primary product is
grown in the soil.

>
>I usually buy meat that is local, I go down to a food hall and buy prime
>beef that is fresh and tastes awesome.

That is done in the US, but that is not a sufficient source for
restaurant use.

>> Produce quality, the things you mostly see in the salad course, also
>> vary regionally in the US. Florida restaurants generally buy
>> locally grown products because of shipping costs, and tomatoes,
>> lettuce, and that sort of this don't have the same quality if grown
>> in the sandy soil of Florida. Midwestern tomatoes, for example, are
>> far superior to Florida-grown tomatoes.
>
>Maybe. I think most of the problems with produce when I've been there is
>that it has never tasted fresh.

We already know you pick "horrible" restaurants.

>> > Sandman:
>> > FOr instance; in America, the soda is sweetened with syrup
>> > instead of real sugar, as opposed to most of the rest of the
>> > world, which means that a Coke tastes... well, worse.
>>
>> Just above you've complained about the high sugar content in our
>> food.
>
>Yeah? I don't drink soda's myself. This was just a "for instance".

You don't drink soda, but you somehow know that our soda is "worse"?
But, you're "not really complaining"...just making derogatory
comparisons about things you about which don't have personal
experience.

>> > > Andreas Skitsnack:
>> > > I've never used Yelp or that type of thing for a recommendation.
>> > > It's ridiculous to do so. Yelp recommendations are often
>> > > "salted" by the restaurant.
>> >
>> > Sandman:
>> > Proof? No? Thought so.
>>
>> I need proof for this?
>
>Yup. Or rephrase it as an opinion or a suspicion.
>
>> It's well-known and general knowledge that the Yelp review that says
>> "Great food and great service" was probably provided by a waiter at that
>> restaurant. If you want an outside opinion, see
>
>"well known" and "probably"... Hmm, no proof there.

OK, you just keep deluding yourself if it makes you feel better. While
you think that Yelp is a dependable source of valid information, you
admit to using Yelp and finding only "horrible" food.

>> How many authentic Yelp reviews did *you* submit based on your
>> experience?
>
>Only one. In fact, I asked about recommendations for restaurants in another
>group and someone there told me that using Yelp could at least give an
>indication.

How'd that work out for you?

The big problem with Yelp is that if it's a good restaurant it will
naturally generate good reviews. If it's a bad restaurant, the
owners/management want to be included in the Yelp listings so they
"salt" the reviews with contributions from employees, friends, and
family.

You won't know which is which, and - evidently - followed the
recommendations that led you to "horrible" food.

[Tony Cooper]

On 20 Jan 2015 08:13:09 GMT, Sandman <m...@sandman.net> wrote:

>In article <190120151035409068%nos...@nospam.invalid>, nospam wrote:
>
>> > Sandman:
>> > Not at all. I like testing different food. Unfortunately,
>> > Americans don't season their food much at all, especially not in
>> > tourist-heavy areas, where most tourists are Americans.
>>
>> that's because not everyone likes spicy food, so restaurants in
>> tourist-heavy areas will tend to be bland.
>
>> again, you're picking the wrong restaurants.
>
>And, as I've said many times now, picking the "right" restaurant is pretty
>hard for a foreigner with limited time to do any research, which is my
>point. If you were in downtown Västerås (where I live) and picked a
>restaurant at random, you'd be sure that it has great quality food.
>
>That said, it's not certain that *you* may like the food, but the
>ingredient quality will be top notch.

Västerås is a city with a population of under 150,000 according to
Wiki. While tourists may visit Västerås, it's hardly a tourist mecca
compared to the tourist corridor in Florida that you visited. In a
city like Västerås, restaurants survive only if what they offer
pleases the local clientele.

In a tourist-heavy area like the one you visited, a restaurant can
survive merely be being open. There are enough people who don't know
the area and just stop where they see a restaurant. Like you.

>> > All the places we ate at were new to us, but alas; what most of
>> > them had in common is the low standard meat/produce and the added
>> > sugar/salt/fish fetish.

What is a "fish fetish"?

[Savageduck]

On 2015-01-20 18:12:17 +0000, Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> said:

> What is a "fish fetish"?

"Wicked Tuna"

--
Regards,

Savageduck

[Tony Cooper]

On Tue, 20 Jan 2015 10:22:35 -0800, Savageduck
<savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:

>On 2015-01-20 18:12:17 +0000, Tony Cooper <tonyco...@gmail.com> said:
>
>> What is a "fish fetish"?
>
>"Wicked Tuna"

I was thinking more along the lines of this, which I can well-imagine
Sandman enjoying:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8XeDvKqI4E

[John McWilliams]

On 1/19/15 PDT 11:26 PM, Sandman wrote:
> In article <m9j6vr$mdi$1...@dont-email.me>, PAS wrote:>

>
> True, swedes aren't known for spicy food so to speak. Swedish "husmanskost"
> is often traditional and high in fat (for the farmers back in the day), but
> modern versions of the dishes are not very fat at all. But while Swedes may
> not season the food all that much, you have to realize that the high
> quality of swedish meat gives enough of a taste in itself.
>
>> My not-very-educated impression of Swedish and Norwegian food (I know
>> quite a few Norwegians) is that is is somewhat bland when it comes to
>> seasoning and that's fine by me. I'm a picky eater, I don't like a lot
>> of things and I am the farthest from an "adventruous eater" as you will
>> find. Give me some meat and potatoes and I'm fine.
>
> I wouldn't call it "bland" though, but tastes vary of course. Swedes are
> fond of fish, and usually well seasoned. Especially the pickled herring is
> heavily seasoned, and is more or less a national dish for larger occasions
> (midsummer's eve, christmas eve etc).
>
> And a dish of swedish meatballs made from prime ground beef and with fresh
> mashed potatoes and lingonberry jam. Everywhere else I've tasted this (to a
> swede, really mundane dish) it's bland, but in Sweden, it has real taste.

In English, we capitalize nationalities and nations. Also dishes, thus,
"Swedish Meatballs", though one could use lowercase m and not be wrong.
I love Lingonberry jam! And I've had very tasty homemade Swedish meatballs.

Love herring of all types- well, creamed or in vinegar at least. Also
have had experience with Red Herrings.....

Just don't feed me lutfisk!

[Sandman]

In article <kn2tba5cj65llbqar...@4ax.com>, Andreas Skitsnack wrote:

> > > Andreas Skitsnack:

> > > What is trollish is making sweeping generalizations about the
> > > food quality and restaurant quality of a country based on a
> > > visit to one touristy area of that country. And, one based on
> > > what were evidently choices of places made haphazardly. Your
> > > extensive complaints an example of shirt-tail dragging.
> >

> > Sandman:

> > Haha! I've been to more places than one in America, so the
> > opinions of the american cousiine is based on them all. That
> > said, I'm not really "complaining".
>
> If not, you do a remarkably good job of appearing to do so.

Maybe to someone that has a hard time reading and understanding English, I
suppose...

> > Sandman:

> > I am just telling people what I think of the food when they ask,
>
> Who asked?

Last time it was John Turco, that asked about my vacation. He didn't ask me
specifically about the food, of course, but since it's a part of my overall
opinion about the vacation, I included it in the response.

> You originated comments about the "horrible" food you encountered in
> Florida.

See, Andreas, those are quote marks, but that's not a quote from me,
especially not in that context. I did indeed encounter horrible food in
America (i.e. Taco Bell), but I've never said that the food in America is
"horrible". Your reading comprehension problems are acting up again.

> Who asked or gives a rat's ass about your experiences? Those of us who
> either live in Florida or are familiar with how to find better
> restaurants than you managed to do, are not interested.

In this group - the ones living in the states are most certainly the ones
that gave a "rat's ass" the most about my opinions about the food in
America. Surprisingly so, I must add. There's a lot of misplaced pride in
the food culture of America.

I mean, I could understand an italian person, or a frenchman getting upset
if someone were to complain about their respective cousine, but an
American? It's just odd.

> > Sandman:

> > or making an joke. I didn't start a new thread in a photography
> > group to "complain" about the food.
>
> Nor did I. I started a thread that contained suggestions on how to
> find better restaurants when traveling.

But you did start a new thread about food in America, clearly showing that
out of the two of us, the one giving the most "rat's ass" about this is
you. I couldn't care less. When the subject comes up, I'll mention the
lousy food that one is likely to get in the states as a tourist.

And what supposed "suggestions" was there in your post? I mean, the only
thing that comes close is you saying that you had been willing to offer
recommendations, but that's hardly a general suggestion for "finding better
restaurants when travelling".

> > > Andreas Skitsnack:

> > > Yet, this is as marked in the US as it is in Italy where
> > > northern cuisine is different from southern cuisine...but more
> > > extensive because the US is larger.
> >

> > Sandman:

> > Problem for a tourist, especially a foreign tourist, is that it's
> > hard to know what restaurant that may or may not serve some
> > "local" cousine that may or may not be better than the "average"
> > american cousine.

See, here is where those "suggestions" should have been inserted.

> > > Andreas Skitsnack:

> > > The tourist area restaurant operator, though, cooks for some
> > > unattainable level of pleasing everyone.
> >

> > Sandman:

> > It's the other way around, if you ask me. They "cook" for the
> > lowest common denominator, and since most tourists are americans,
> > that means a lot of sugar, fat, grease, syrup, deep-frying and
> > whatnot.
>
> What confuses you about "pleasing everyone" and "lowest common
> denominator" not being the same thing?

Sorry, I got sidetracked with the "unattainable level", which to me seemed
to imply something better than "lowest common denominator", but I probably
misunderstood you. I would say that serving the lowest common denominator
is a highly attainable level. Just add sugar, fat and deep-fry it. Bam,
done.

> > > > Sandman:
> > > > The biggest probem is the usually really low aulity
> > > > of meat, produce and things like that.
> > >

> > > Andreas Skitsnack:

> > > There is a significant difference between grain-fed beef and
> > > corn-fed beef. Corn-fed beef is more expensive and more
> > > difficult to find in Florida. Only the top-end restaurants
> > > offer corn-fed beef.
> >

> > Sandman:

> > Ok, help me understand this here. We don't have "meat farms" in
> > Sweden
>
> That term is not used in the US. Beef cattle are owned by ranchers
> in the US. Ranchers are in the livestock business and farmers are
> in the agricultural business. We do use "fish farm", "pig farms",
> and "milk farms", but not "beef farms".

That wass "meat farms", and whatever you call them, they're pretty
horrific:
<http://tinyurl.com/n7tk8mp>

> > Sandman:

> > that way you do in the states. But our cattle are fed by grazing
> > in pastures,
>
> Grass will not sustain a large herd of beef cattle. They are fed
> supplemental products; grain in some parts of the country and corn
> in other parts of the country. Grass-fed beef, unless the animal is
> part of a very small group and is pastured in a large area, is tough
> and flavorless.

Wow, that's the largest pile of bullshit you've posted in a long while. I
suppose it might be something an American would try to convince himself
about.

> > Sandman:

> > I usually buy meat that is local, I go down to a food hall and buy
> > prime beef that is fresh and tastes awesome.
>
> That is done in the US, but that is not a sufficient source for
> restaurant use.

There is no reason it couldn't be. I mean, sure there aren't all that many
ranches close to downtown NY, perhaps, but USA has tons of empty space.
It's probably just that the large (i.e. enormous) meat packing factories
beat them on price, so that's the kind of meat most Americans (and
restaurants) have access to.

Local meat here is more than twice the price than packed meat, but packed
meat here is still a lot better than grocery store meat in the states.

> > > Andreas Skitsnack:

> > > Produce quality, the things you mostly see in the salad course,
> > > also vary regionally in the US. Florida restaurants generally
> > > buy locally grown products because of shipping costs, and
> > > tomatoes, lettuce, and that sort of this don't have the same
> > > quality if grown in the sandy soil of Florida. Midwestern
> > > tomatoes, for example, are far superior to Florida-grown
> > > tomatoes.
> >

> > Sandman:

> > Maybe. I think most of the problems with produce when I've been
> > there is that it has never tasted fresh.
>
> We already know you pick "horrible" restaurants.

There's that disingenous quote again.

> > > > Sandman:
> > > > FOr instance; in America, the soda is sweetened with
> > > > syrup instead of real sugar, as opposed to most of the rest
> > > > of the world, which means that a Coke tastes... well, worse.
> > >

> > > Andreas Skitsnack:

> > > Just above you've complained about the high sugar content in our
> > > food.
> >

> > Sandman:

> > Yeah? I don't drink soda's myself. This was just a "for instance".
>
> You don't drink soda, but you somehow know that our soda is "worse"?

Yup.

> But, you're "not really complaining"...just making derogatory
> comparisons about things you about which don't have personal
> experience.

I do. I have tasted Coca Cola in the states. It tastes funny. Which is
partly due to the syrup and probably partly due to the water being a lot
different as well.

> > > > > Andreas Skitsnack:
> > > > > I've never used Yelp or that type of
> > > > > thing for a recommendation. It's ridiculous to do so. Yelp
> > > > > recommendations are often "salted" by the restaurant.
> > > >
> > > > Sandman:
> > > > Proof? No? Thought so.
> > >

> > > Andreas Skitsnack:

> > > I need proof for this?
> >

> > Sandman:

> > Yup. Or rephrase it as an opinion or a suspicion.

Or keep it unsusbtantiated.

> > > Andreas Skitsnack:

> > > It's well-known and general knowledge that the Yelp review that
> > > says "Great food and great service" was probably provided by a
> > > waiter at that restaurant. If you want an outside opinion, see
> >

> > Sandman:

> > "well known" and "probably"... Hmm, no proof there.
>
> OK, you just keep deluding yourself if it makes you feel better.

Hey, I don't know either way - I just saw you make a claim and your
credibility is in the negative space, so it's not like I'd take a claim
from you at face value.

> While you think that Yelp is a dependable source of valid
> information, you admit to using Yelp and finding only "horrible"
> food.

It's all extremes to you. I've used Yelp a sum total of perhaps three times
in my life. It was recommended to me when I was in the states (as a last
resort). The fact it led me to the wrong place was not someting I
attributed to that particular resturant gaming the review system, but
because it's a popular restaurant *among americans*, and indeed, it was
packed with your typical stereotypical ghetto tourists. It's hard knowing
where to go, and Yelp didn't help, but I have no reason to believe it
didn't work because it was cheated by the restaurant. There's a difference.

> > > Andreas Skitsnack:

> > > How many authentic Yelp reviews did *you* submit based on your
> > > experience?
> >

> > Sandman:

> > Only one. In fact, I asked about recommendations for restaurants
> > in another group and someone there told me that using Yelp could
> > at least give an indication.
>
> How'd that work out for you?

Bad. But again, that's not necessarily due to your still unsubstantiated
claim.

> The big problem with Yelp is that if it's a good restaurant it will
> naturally generate good reviews.

Sounds great!

> If it's a bad restaurant, the owners/management want to be included in
> the Yelp listings so they "salt" the reviews with contributions from
> employees, friends, and family.

Cool, and by doing that, they surpass the geniunely good restaurants? So...
still don't have any source for this claim?

> You won't know which is which, and - evidently - followed the
> recommendations that led you to "horrible" food.

I know. But let's test your "theory". Here's the area in which the
"horrible" restaurant was found:

<https://www.google.com/maps/@28.3393268,-81.5961586,17z>

You're not alowed to zoom and/or pan. That's the area we were in. Please
point out the really good restaurants in that area that a european tourist
would like, and then point out how we would have found out about them.

Thanks in advance.


--
Sandman[.net]

[Sandman]

In article <5c5tbaldnsvmdqhp5...@4ax.com>, Andreas Skitsnack wrote:

> > Sandman:

> > And, as I've said many times now, picking the "right" restaurant
> > is pretty hard for a foreigner with limited time to do any
> > research, which is my point. If you were in downtown Västerås
> > (where I live) and picked a restaurant at random, you'd be sure
> > that it has great quality food.
>
> > That said, it's not certain that *you* may like the food, but the
> > ingredient quality will be top notch.
>
> Västerås is a city with a population of under 150,000 according to
> Wiki.

Yup! But the statement applies equally to all swedish towns.

> While tourists may visit Västerås, it's hardly a tourist
> mecca compared to the tourist corridor in Florida that you visited.

Of course not, that's the point.

> In a city like Västerås, restaurants survive only if what they offer
> pleases the local clientele.

And given the balance between foreigner and American tourists, the tourist
area of Orlando serves what pleases Americans, by the same logic.

> In a tourist-heavy area like the one you visited, a restaurant can
> survive merely be being open. There are enough people who don't
> know the area and just stop where they see a restaurant. Like you.

Hence, the problem. As it seems, the ratio between good restaurant and
"crap restaurant with the only advantage of 'being open'" is frightingly
high.

> > > > Sandman:

> > > > All the places we ate at were new to us, but alas; what most
> > > > of them had in common is the low standard meat/produce and
> > > > the added sugar/salt/fish fetish.
> > >
> What is a "fish fetish"?

I really... can't remember why I wrote that. I must have meant something
else, but I can't remember what. Odd.


--
Sandman[.net]

[Tony Cooper]

On 21 Jan 2015 14:14:33 GMT, Sandman <m...@sandman.net> wrote:

>> That term is not used in the US. Beef cattle are owned by ranchers
>> in the US. Ranchers are in the livestock business and farmers are
>> in the agricultural business. We do use "fish farm", "pig farms",
>> and "milk farms", but not "beef farms".
>
>That wass "meat farms", and whatever you call them, they're pretty
>horrific:
><http://tinyurl.com/n7tk8mp>

Why have you provided a link to photograph of a cattle farm in Brazil
when you are commenting about raising cattle in the US? Are you
confused about the difference between North America and South America?

>
>> > Sandman:
>> > that way you do in the states. But our cattle are fed by grazing
>> > in pastures,
>>
>> Grass will not sustain a large herd of beef cattle. They are fed
>> supplemental products; grain in some parts of the country and corn
>> in other parts of the country. Grass-fed beef, unless the animal is
>> part of a very small group and is pastured in a large area, is tough
>> and flavorless.
>
>Wow, that's the largest pile of bullshit you've posted in a long while. I
>suppose it might be something an American would try to convince himself
>about.

What is it you ask for? Proof? Provide it. A large herd will
over-graze a pasture.

[nospam]

In article <slrnmbs2...@irc.sandman.net>, Sandman

<m...@sandman.net> wrote:

> > > > Andreas Skitsnack:
> > > > I've never used Yelp or that type of thing for a recommendation.
> > > > It's ridiculous to do so. Yelp recommendations are often
> > > > "salted" by the restaurant.
> > >
> > > Sandman:
> > > Proof? No? Thought so.
> >
> > I need proof for this?
>
> Yup. Or rephrase it as an opinion or a suspicion.
>
> > It's well-known and general knowledge that the Yelp review that says
> > "Great food and great service" was probably provided by a waiter at that
> > restaurant. If you want an outside opinion, see
>
> "well known" and "probably"... Hmm, no proof there.

how about you prove they don't? oh yea, you can't, because they do.

and then you *agree* it's full of shills:

> > http://kitchenette.jezebel.com/oh-look-a-company-is-paying-people-to-post-fa

[nospam]

In article <slrnmbs3...@irc.sandman.net>, Sandman

<m...@sandman.net> wrote:

> > > Sandman:
> > > Not at all. I like testing different food. Unfortunately,
> > > Americans don't season their food much at all, especially not in
> > > tourist-heavy areas, where most tourists are Americans.
> >
> > that's because not everyone likes spicy food, so restaurants in
> > tourist-heavy areas will tend to be bland.
>
> > again, you're picking the wrong restaurants.
>
> And, as I've said many times now, picking the "right" restaurant is pretty
> hard for a foreigner with limited time to do any research, which is my
> point. If you were in downtown Västerås (where I live) and picked a
> restaurant at random, you'd be sure that it has great quality food.

not necessarily.

> That said, it's not certain that *you* may like the food, but the
> ingredient quality will be top notch.

not necessarily.

i'm sure it's a wonderful place but to claim that every restaurant is
excellent is completely bullshit.

> > > Sandman:
> > > Most food is super-greasy, tons of added sugar and way too sweet
> > > to eat. But that's not really the biggest problem (and could be
> > > filed under the 'this is how we "spice" things in America). The
> > > biggest probem is the usually really low aulity of meat, produce
> > > and things like that. It's like you guys add syrup, sugar and
> > > salt to hide the crappy meat that's hidden underneath somewhere.
> >
> > not only are you piking the wrong restaurants, you're picking shitty
> > ones.
>
> Yeah, but who's to blame? Me for not knowing, or for the fact that there
> are way too many shitty restaurants around?

you for not knowing or taking the time to pick better restaurants.

any idiot would know that fast food such as taco bell is going to be at
best, not that great.

> > > Sandman:
> > > And Taco Bell most certainly served a "cuisine" totally different
> > > to what we're used to!
> >
> > you flew all the way to the usa and went to a taco bell??
> > seriously??? wtf is wrong with you?
>
> > taco bell is shitty fast food. wtf did you expect?
>
> Oh no, don't give me that! Shitty fast food has it's place. Taco Bell is a
> LOT worse than shitty fast food. It was the worst thing I've put in my
> mouth in a long time.

there are worse.

> McDonald's is hitty fast food, and it has its place, and is edible when in
> a hurry or for other reasons. Taco Bell is a *punishment* to the taste
> buds. Taco Bell was horrible goo that they surely found lying in the back
> trash bin from another fast food restaurant.

taco bell and mcdonalds are equally shitty. the only difference is that
one is a burger and one is a taco.

> And why did we go there? Well, me and my son had been shopping, and he was
> hungry. When driving along, I recognized the logo and thought, why not?
> I've seen it in movies, and it's apparently a pretty popular place seeing
> how there is one in every intersection pretty much. How bad can it be,
> really?

that's not how to pick good restaurants.

[nospam]

In article <m9lmoi$kr6$1...@dont-email.me>, PAS <nto...@optonline.net>
wrote:

> >> > Too much added sugar, usually. Same with most chinese food joints.
> >>
> >> Where are these places which add all this sugar? As for Chinese food
> >> joints, the most nasty food additive is MSG.
> >
> > MSG?
>
> Monosodium glutamate. It enhances flavor,

that's the claim, but the reality is that it stimulates the taste buds.

> Chinese food is notorious for
> having large amounts of it.

the better places don't add it and you can always ask for no msg from
the shittier places (and hopefully they comply with the request).

> A lot of packaged foods contain it.

some do and it's easy to not buy those.

> My
> wife cannot tolerate it, she gets headaches from it. A large dose in
> food will cause much more than a headache. Fortunately, the effects
> don't last long for her but it's still bad for the short time it does
> affect her.

easily avoided.