Re: Palestinians Under Attack
Chris H
<nospam...@now.com> writes
>
>
>The BBC and rantings of students aside,
And the opinion of the whole UK
> what do YOU think Israel's
>response should be to a constant barrage of rockets on their towns and
>the constant threat of suicide bombs from people who have made it very
>clear that they have no right to exist?
This is back to front The Palestinians are not the aggressors here. They
had Israel built on their land It started with Israeli terrorism
blowing up busses, killing civilians and taking Palestinian land. And
continuing to murder Palestinians for the last 60 years. What should the
Palestinians do in defence?
>Especially since this has been going on for decades, regardless of
>which militant group claims to speak for the Palestinians?
Quite so the Palestinians will continue to defend themselves in he face
of Israeli aggression s
>Surrender and leaving is not an option, any more than it would be if
>you were on that side.
SO the Palestinians will continue to fight and push the aggresses back
off their land.
>Negotiate with them? That has never worked in the past.
True the Israelis can not be trusted you only have to look a the war
crimes than have committed.
>You've already stated very clearly that "Israel must go" and that you
>don't think they have the right to exist. Therefore everything you
>say is biased.
Not biased. After careful non-biased study it is the only sensible
arrangement. Remove the aggressors. Israelis behaviour from day 1 has
shown it does not deserve to keep the land it has taken from the
Palestinians
--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
\/\/\/\/\ Chris Hills Staffs England /\/\/\/\/
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Stephen Bishop
Like I said, you are biased. The above is anything but an objective
look at the facts. You leave out all the parts about how the Arabs
terrorized the Jews even before the state of Israel was formed. You
excuse Palestinian terrorism as "self defense" but you ignore what the
other side has had to do to defend itself.
Ray Fischer
> Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org> wrote:
>>Not biased. After careful non-biased study it is the only sensible
>>arrangement. Remove the aggressors. Israelis behaviour from day 1 has
>>shown it does not deserve to keep the land it has taken from the
>>Palestinians
>
>Like I said, you are biased.
So far you've accused everybody posting here who disagrees with of
being biased, as well as the UN, the BBC, and everybody else critical
of Israel.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Stephen Bishop
I have pointed out biased statements where they exist. Anyone who
comes from the foundation that Israel has no right to exist, like
Chris, is biased.
Anyone who dwells on the casualties caused by Israel while not showing
equal outrage at what Palestinian militants have been doing to Israeli
civilians for decades is biased. That would be you.
Anyone who claims that Palestinians firing thousands of rockets at
random into Israeli civilian areas is merely "fighting back" is
biased. That is you, also.
Anyone who clips away volumes of text and dismisses any information
that supports Israel, then lies about what was said, is biased. That
would be you.... again.
It's fine to criticize Israel. Just don't do it from that biased
position and you will have more credibility.
Chris H
<nospam...@now.com> writes
>On 01 Feb 2009 22:42:07 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>
>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>> Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org> wrote:
>>
>>>>Not biased. After careful non-biased study it is the only sensible
>>>>arrangement. Remove the aggressors. Israelis behaviour from day 1 has
>>>>shown it does not deserve to keep the land it has taken from the
>>>>Palestinians
>>>
>>>Like I said, you are biased.
>>
>>So far you've accused everybody posting here who disagrees with of
>>being biased, as well as the UN, the BBC, and everybody else critical
>>of Israel.
>
>
>I have pointed out biased statements where they exist. Anyone who
>comes from the foundation that Israel has no right to exist, like
>Chris, is biased.
NOT biased I just disagree with you. The reason we disagree is because
you are biased. You can not look at the facts but only spout Israeli
propaganda.
>Anyone who dwells on the casualties caused by Israel while not showing
>equal outrage at what Palestinian militants have been doing to Israeli
>civilians for decades is biased. That would be you.
There is no equality. The Israelis have been killing Palestinian
civilians at an order of two magnitudes greater for the last 50 years.
The Israelis have committed many more war crimes than the Palestinians.
In all cases the Israelis started first. Including blowing up busses of
civilians
The only person showing Bias is you Stephen.
>Anyone who claims that Palestinians firing thousands of rockets at
>random into Israeli civilian areas is merely "fighting back" is
>biased. That is you, also.
What is biased about the FACT that the Palestinians started firing
rockets back after tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians were
killed. The rockets are a reaction to Israeli attacks
As for the "thousands" of rockets they are a very small amount compared
to the hundreds of thousands of munitions Israel is firing into a
densely populated area.
>Anyone who clips away volumes of text and dismisses any information
>that supports Israel, then lies about what was said, is biased. That
>would be you.... again.
Sorry you do not post any information. Almost EVERYTHING you post can be
traced back to an Israeli propaganda source.
>It's fine to criticize Israel. Just don't do it from that biased
>position and you will have more credibility.
Stephen, apart from with Hemi you have no credibility amongst the
members of this NG and if you were to come over to the counter terrorist
news groups you would have even less.
Stephen Bishop
>In message <k6kdo4p7pa3tmpd7i...@4ax.com>, Stephen Bishop
><nospam...@now.com> writes
>>On 01 Feb 2009 22:42:07 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>
>>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>> Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>Not biased. After careful non-biased study it is the only sensible
>>>>>arrangement. Remove the aggressors. Israelis behaviour from day 1 has
>>>>>shown it does not deserve to keep the land it has taken from the
>>>>>Palestinians
>>>>
>>>>Like I said, you are biased.
>>>
>>>So far you've accused everybody posting here who disagrees with of
>>>being biased, as well as the UN, the BBC, and everybody else critical
>>>of Israel.
>>
>>
>>I have pointed out biased statements where they exist. Anyone who
>>comes from the foundation that Israel has no right to exist, like
>>Chris, is biased.
>
>
>NOT biased I just disagree with you. The reason we disagree is because
>you are biased. You can not look at the facts but only spout Israeli
>propaganda.
You are biased because you have clearly and literally said "Israel
must go." You also said you agreed with Palestinian clerics who
preach that the Jews are subhumans who must be driven from the land.
You therefore have a blatantly and obviously anti-Israel bias, and you
seek the same end for Israel that its enemies seek.
Disagreement is fine, but it must come from a neutral position.
I believe Israel does indeed have the right to exist and the right to
defend itself. Call that biased if you want, but that just comes from
your own bias of believing that Israel has no right to exist in
Palestine.
Does that mean I believe that everything Israel does is right? Of
course not. If they are truly guilty of war crimes, then those
individuals who are found guilty should be punished appropriately.
But you cannot deny that there are Palestinians equally guilty of war
crimes, and just because Israel has bigger guns does not excuse the
Palestinians of their own crimes against humanity.
>
>>Anyone who dwells on the casualties caused by Israel while not showing
>>equal outrage at what Palestinian militants have been doing to Israeli
>>civilians for decades is biased. That would be you.
>
>There is no equality. The Israelis have been killing Palestinian
>civilians at an order of two magnitudes greater for the last 50 years.
You still ignore what the Palestinians have been doing, excusing them
because of what you believe be to be a difference in numbers.
>
>The Israelis have committed many more war crimes than the Palestinians.
>In all cases the Israelis started first. Including blowing up busses of
>civilians
>
>The only person showing Bias is you Stephen.
>
>>Anyone who claims that Palestinians firing thousands of rockets at
>>random into Israeli civilian areas is merely "fighting back" is
>>biased. That is you, also.
>
>What is biased about the FACT that the Palestinians started firing
>rockets back after tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians were
>killed. The rockets are a reaction to Israeli attacks
>
>As for the "thousands" of rockets they are a very small amount compared
>to the hundreds of thousands of munitions Israel is firing into a
>densely populated area.
>
>>Anyone who clips away volumes of text and dismisses any information
>>that supports Israel, then lies about what was said, is biased. That
>>would be you.... again.
>
>Sorry you do not post any information. Almost EVERYTHING you post can be
>traced back to an Israeli propaganda source.
Just as almost everything you post can be traced back to a Palestinian
propaganda source, even though some of it has a BBC tagline. Much of
what you say is verbatum what the whacko president of Iran has to say
about Israel.
>>It's fine to criticize Israel. Just don't do it from that biased
>>position and you will have more credibility.
>
>Stephen, apart from with Hemi you have no credibility amongst the
>members of this NG and if you were to come over to the counter terrorist
>news groups you would have even less.
I may have no credibility with you, but that is merely because of your
openly anti-Israel and anti-America worldview. If I had credibility
with you I'd quite honestly be worried.
There would be no reason to come to your little newsgroup because it
supports your commercial interests, and you've already shown your
bias.
Regardless of what you think about what you've written above, you come
from the position that Israel has no right to exist and never should
have been created. Therefore, everything you say comes from a biased
position.
However, if you acknowledge that Israel has every right to exist and
defend itself, then you are qualified to discuss or debate whether or
not the methods they use are too harsh or not harsh enough.
Ray Fischer
>On 01 Feb 2009 22:42:07 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>
>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>> Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org> wrote:
>>
>>>>Not biased. After careful non-biased study it is the only sensible
>>>>arrangement. Remove the aggressors. Israelis behaviour from day 1 has
>>>>shown it does not deserve to keep the land it has taken from the
>>>>Palestinians
>>>
>>>Like I said, you are biased.
>>
>>So far you've accused everybody posting here who disagrees with of
>>being biased, as well as the UN, the BBC, and everybody else critical
>>of Israel.
>
>I have pointed out biased statements where they exist.
That's a lie. You have made wild accusations of bias INSTEAD of
pointing out actual, certifiable bias.
>Anyone who dwells on the casualties caused by Israel
Thousands of people.
>while not showing
>equal outrage at what Palestinian militants have been doing to Israeli
>civilians for decades is biased.
Which makes you biased.
Damned by your own words.
>Anyone who claims that Palestinians firing thousands of rockets at
>random into Israeli civilian areas is merely "fighting back" is
>biased.
But when Israel does the very same thing it's "defense"?
>Anyone who clips away volumes of text and dismisses any information
>that supports Israel,
Now you're lying.
>It's fine to criticize Israel.
Not to you, bigot.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Stephen Bishop
>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>On 01 Feb 2009 22:42:07 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>
>>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>> Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>Not biased. After careful non-biased study it is the only sensible
>>>>>arrangement. Remove the aggressors. Israelis behaviour from day 1 has
>>>>>shown it does not deserve to keep the land it has taken from the
>>>>>Palestinians
>>>>
>>>>Like I said, you are biased.
>>>
>>>So far you've accused everybody posting here who disagrees with of
>>>being biased, as well as the UN, the BBC, and everybody else critical
>>>of Israel.
>>
>>I have pointed out biased statements where they exist.
>
>That's a lie. You have made wild accusations of bias INSTEAD of
>pointing out actual, certifiable bias.
>
He maintains that Israel has no right to exist. That is actual,
certifiable bias. Where have you been?
>>Anyone who dwells on the casualties caused by Israel
>
>Thousands of people.
>
>>while not showing
>>equal outrage at what Palestinian militants have been doing to Israeli
>>civilians for decades is biased.
>
>Which makes you biased.
What a fool you are. Read what I said. I said "showing equal
outrage" at what the other side is doing. Asking for equal treatment
is not bias. That is the opposite of bias. YOU are the biased one
for constantly harping on the evils of one side while excusing the
other.
>Damned by your own words.
Really? That describes you in just about everything you write.
That's why you are viewed by most people on usenet as merely a cranky
troll who has much too high an opinion of himself.
>
>>Anyone who claims that Palestinians firing thousands of rockets at
>>random into Israeli civilian areas is merely "fighting back" is
>>biased.
>
>But when Israel does the very same thing it's "defense"?
They don't do the very same thing. That's your spin.
And regardless of what Israel does, you're still justifying what the
other side does.
>>Anyone who clips away volumes of text and dismisses any information
>>that supports Israel,
>
>Now you're lying.
You say I'm lying even as you are caught doing that very thing in this
post. You are truly pathetic.
>
>>It's fine to criticize Israel.
>
>Not to you, bigot.
You again prove you are a self-righteous bigot. I said it's fine to
criticize Israel, and then you make that bigoted statement. It's
easy to see why you hate Israel so much.
HEMI-Powered
jour ...
>>>I have pointed out biased statements where they exist.
>>
>>That's a lie. You have made wild accusations of bias INSTEAD of
>>pointing out actual, certifiable bias.
>
> He maintains that Israel has no right to exist. That is actual,
> certifiable bias. Where have you been?
This is the essential part of the entire debate - namely that for
reasons really hard to fathom, much of the world and certainly almost
ALL of the Arab/Muslim countries and regions hate Israel so much as
to actively and vocally advocate it's total destruction starting with
the premise that Jews have no right to even have a homeland. This is,
of course, absurd on it's face and so biased, racist, bigoted, etc.
that it shouldn't need to be clarified - but apparently it still does
as so many seem to miss this important piece of the puzzle.
--
HP, aka Jerry
"The government that governs least, governs best" - Thomas Jefferson
"Government is NOT the solution to our problems, it IS our
problem!" - Ronald Reagan
Chris H
<nospam...@now.com> writes
>On 03 Feb 2009 03:57:52 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>
>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>On 01 Feb 2009 22:42:07 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>>
>>>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>>> Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>Not biased. After careful non-biased study it is the only sensible
>>>>>>arrangement. Remove the aggressors. Israelis behaviour from day 1 has
>>>>>>shown it does not deserve to keep the land it has taken from the
>>>>>>Palestinians
>>>>>
>>>>>Like I said, you are biased.
>>>>
>>>>So far you've accused everybody posting here who disagrees with of
>>>>being biased, as well as the UN, the BBC, and everybody else critical
>>>>of Israel.
>>>
>>>I have pointed out biased statements where they exist.
>>
>>That's a lie. You have made wild accusations of bias INSTEAD of
>>pointing out actual, certifiable bias.
>>
>
>He maintains that Israel has no right to exist. That is actual,
>certifiable bias. Where have you been?
That is NOT Bias but a reasonable conclusion drawn from the facts.
BIAS is what Stephen does. Only looking at information from one side and
discounting anything that agrees with it.
More to the point Stephen takes the data from one side and says that is
the only accurate source. The rest are wrong.
The rest of us look at multiple sources and a range of inputs. From the
Hamas propaganda through the independent sources to the Israeli
Propaganda.
On that basis Israel is the criminal and aggressor in all this. Stephen
finds small (almost insignificant) events of retaliation and claims that
as justification fro the next wave of war crimes.
>What a fool you are. Read what I said. I said "showing equal
>outrage" at what the other side is doing.
And there is proportional equal outrage for what Hamas is doing. I am
as outraged when Hamas kills a civilian as when the IDF does...
Though as the IDF are doing it at a rate of 500 to 1 and using illegal
weapons and tactics an order of magnitude worse than Hamas who are
defending, not the aggressors.
What sort of unbiased equality do you want?
Making deliberate war crime killing 1500 equal to un-intentional
killing of there civilians?
> Asking for equal treatment
>is not bias.
THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE GETTING
>That is the opposite of bias. YOU are the biased one
>for constantly harping on the evils of one side while excusing the
>other.
Not at all. If you started being objective and unbiased you would get a
better argument.
Ray Fischer
>On 03 Feb 2009 03:57:52 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>
>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>On 01 Feb 2009 22:42:07 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>>
>>>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>>> Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>Not biased. After careful non-biased study it is the only sensible
>>>>>>arrangement. Remove the aggressors. Israelis behaviour from day 1 has
>>>>>>shown it does not deserve to keep the land it has taken from the
>>>>>>Palestinians
>>>>>
>>>>>Like I said, you are biased.
>>>>
>>>>So far you've accused everybody posting here who disagrees with of
>>>>being biased, as well as the UN, the BBC, and everybody else critical
>>>>of Israel.
>>>
>>>I have pointed out biased statements where they exist.
>>
>>That's a lie. You have made wild accusations of bias INSTEAD of
>>pointing out actual, certifiable bias.
>
>He maintains that
You're changing the subject.
>>>Anyone who dwells on the casualties caused by Israel
>>
>>Thousands of people.
>>
>>>while not showing
>>>equal outrage at what Palestinian militants have been doing to Israeli
>>>civilians for decades is biased.
>>
>>Which makes you biased.
>
>What a fool you are.
By your own words you are biased.
> Read what I said. I said "showing equal
>outrage" at what the other side is doing. Asking for equal treatment
>is not bias.
You're not asking for equal treatment. You're showing bias.
Where's your outrage at Israeli abuses?
Totally absent.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
>Stephen Bishop added these comments in the current discussion du
>jour ...
>
>>>>I have pointed out biased statements where they exist.
>>>
>>>That's a lie. You have made wild accusations of bias INSTEAD of
>>>pointing out actual, certifiable bias.
>>
>> He maintains that Israel has no right to exist. That is actual,
>> certifiable bias. Where have you been?
>
>This is the essential part of the entire debate - namely that for
>reasons really hard to fathom, much of the world and certainly almost
>ALL of the Arab/Muslim countries and regions hate Israel so much as
Neonazi bigotry and propaganda.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Stephen Bishop
How do you deny something that is so easily and openly verifiable?
Stephen Bishop
>In message <2c8go4dlo7l7tfda8...@4ax.com>, Stephen Bishop
><nospam...@now.com> writes
>>On 03 Feb 2009 03:57:52 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>
>>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>>On 01 Feb 2009 22:42:07 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Not biased. After careful non-biased study it is the only sensible
>>>>>>>arrangement. Remove the aggressors. Israelis behaviour from day 1 has
>>>>>>>shown it does not deserve to keep the land it has taken from the
>>>>>>>Palestinians
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Like I said, you are biased.
>>>>>
>>>>>So far you've accused everybody posting here who disagrees with of
>>>>>being biased, as well as the UN, the BBC, and everybody else critical
>>>>>of Israel.
>>>>
>>>>I have pointed out biased statements where they exist.
>>>
>>>That's a lie. You have made wild accusations of bias INSTEAD of
>>>pointing out actual, certifiable bias.
>>>
>>
>>He maintains that Israel has no right to exist. That is actual,
>>certifiable bias. Where have you been?
>
>That is NOT Bias but a reasonable conclusion drawn from the facts.
You still have no credibility. That is your opinion based on your
interpretation of the facts, and concluding that any country or group
of people has no right to exist is bigotry and bias in the extreme.
Therefore, everything you say below is null and void because it comes
from that exremely biased position.
>
>BIAS is what Stephen does. Only looking at information from one side and
>discounting anything that agrees with it.
>
>More to the point Stephen takes the data from one side and says that is
>the only accurate source. The rest are wrong.
>
>The rest of us look at multiple sources and a range of inputs. From the
>Hamas propaganda through the independent sources to the Israeli
>Propaganda.
>
>On that basis Israel is the criminal and aggressor in all this. Stephen
>finds small (almost insignificant) events of retaliation and claims that
>as justification fro the next wave of war crimes.
Your bias is obvious even in the above. You call an almost constant
rain of rockets on Israeli towns "insignificant" because they are not
accurate enough to hit what they are aimed at, yet you call Israeli
use of guided weapons to take out those who are launching those
rockets to be war crimes.
>
>
>>What a fool you are. Read what I said. I said "showing equal
>>outrage" at what the other side is doing.
>
>And there is proportional equal outrage for what Hamas is doing. I am
>as outraged when Hamas kills a civilian as when the IDF does...
>
>Though as the IDF are doing it at a rate of 500 to 1 and using illegal
>weapons and tactics an order of magnitude worse than Hamas who are
>defending, not the aggressors.
The Royal Air Force killed far more German civilians in WWII than the
Luftwaffe ever did over London. Countless innocent German men, women
and children were even firebombed in their sleep. Does that make
your country a nation of war criminals? Does that negate Great
Britain's right to exist?
>
>What sort of unbiased equality do you want?
>Making deliberate war crime killing 1500 equal to un-intentional
>killing of there civilians?
>
>
>> Asking for equal treatment
>>is not bias.
>
>THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE GETTING
Not when you start from the position that Israel should never have
been created and doesn't have the right to exist.
>
>>That is the opposite of bias. YOU are the biased one
>>for constantly harping on the evils of one side while excusing the
>>other.
>
>Not at all. If you started being objective and unbiased you would get a
>better argument.
Think about what you just said and start applying it to yourself.
Grant that Israel has the right to exist and to defend itself; and
maybe people will start listening to you when you want to discuss
whether or not their means of defending themselves is looked at by the
rest of the world as being too harsh.
Stephen Bishop
My outrage toward that is in the same place as your outrage at all the
terrorism that Palenstinians and their supporters have been unleashing
on Israel and the rest of the world for decades.
Ray Fischer
Then why don't you verify it, sleazebag? Instead of spewing your
usual bigotry, let's see you provide some actual facts.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
>On 03 Feb 2009 19:04:28 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>
>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>On 03 Feb 2009 03:57:52 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>>
>>>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>>>On 01 Feb 2009 22:42:07 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Not biased. After careful non-biased study it is the only sensible
>>>>>>>>arrangement. Remove the aggressors. Israelis behaviour from day 1 has
>>>>>>>>shown it does not deserve to keep the land it has taken from the
>>>>>>>>Palestinians
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Like I said, you are biased.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So far you've accused everybody posting here who disagrees with of
>>>>>>being biased, as well as the UN, the BBC, and everybody else critical
>>>>>>of Israel.
>>>>>
>>>>>I have pointed out biased statements where they exist.
>>>>
>>>>That's a lie. You have made wild accusations of bias INSTEAD of
>>>>pointing out actual, certifiable bias.
>>>
>>>He maintains that
>>
>>You're changing the subject.
Where is the actual bias, bigot?
Let's see your evidence.
>>>>>while not showing
>>>>>equal outrage at what Palestinian militants have been doing to Israeli
>>>>>civilians for decades is biased.
>>>>
>>>>Which makes you biased.
>>>
>>>What a fool you are.
>>
>>By your own words you are biased.
>>
>>> Read what I said. I said "showing equal
>>>outrage" at what the other side is doing. Asking for equal treatment
>>>is not bias.
>>
>>You're not asking for equal treatment. You're showing bias.
>>
>>Where's your outrage at Israeli abuses?
>>
>>Totally absent.
>
>My outrage toward that is in the same place as your outrage at all the
The bigot tries to shift the blame yet again.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Stephen Bishop
The bigot asks for facts while using his request as a platform to spew
bigoted opinions and false accusation. You've already demonstrated
that you have little regard for any facts that don't fit your bigoted
opinions.
The facts, open for all to see without even looking hard, are that
only two Arab nations recognize Israel as a nation. Interestingly,
those are the two countries who lost the most land to Israel in the
1967 Middle East war. The rest of them refer to Israel as a "Jewish
Entity," "Zionist Entity," or a "Terrorist Entity" while refusing to
acknowledge their right to exist.
But here is just one example for you:
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/07/25/mideast.html
To quote from that news report:
"The proposal, originally presented in 2002 and rejected by the Jewish
state, extends an offer from all Arab countries to recognize Israel in
exchange for an Israeli withdrawal from land captured in the 1967
Middle East War.
"This serious offer constitutes a major opportunity of historical
levels," Jordanian Foreign Minister Abdul-Ilah Khatib said. "It will
provide Israel with the security, recognition and acceptance in this
region which Israel has long aspired to."
Currently, Egypt and Jordan are the only two nations in the league
that recognize Israel. The Arab body refused to recognize Israel after
the creation of the Jewish state in 1948 and suspended Egypt in 1979
for a decade when it became the first Arab state to make peace."
Ray Fischer
> rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>> rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>>>HEMI-Powered <no...@none.gn> wrote:
>>>>>This is the essential part of the entire debate - namely that for
>>>>>reasons really hard to fathom, much of the world and certainly almost
>>>>>ALL of the Arab/Muslim countries and regions hate Israel so much as
>>>>
>>>>Neonazi bigotry and propaganda.
>>>
>>>How do you deny something that is so easily and openly verifiable?
>>
>>Then why don't you verify it, sleazebag? Instead of spewing your
>>usual bigotry, let's see you provide some actual facts.
>
>The bigot asks for facts while using his request as a platform to spew
The usual smears and hate.
[...]
>http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/07/25/mideast.html
>
>To quote from that news report:
>
>"The proposal, originally presented in 2002 and rejected by the Jewish
>state, extends an offer from all Arab countries to recognize Israel in
>exchange for an Israeli withdrawal from land captured in the 1967
>Middle East War.
"EXTENDS AN OFFER FROM ALL ARAB COUNTRIES TO RECOGNIZE ISRAEL"
"REJECTED BY THE JEWISH STATE"
So once again bishop is shown to be a stupid, lying, bigot.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Stephen Bishop
You condemn yourself yet again by the words you clipped away and your
penchant for selective quoting to spin the truth. Read the entire
article, you idiot. It says they extended that offer as a possible
negotiation point, but they DO NOT recognize Israel.
You call others a stupid, lying bigot while showing the world that you
are all of that yourself, in addition to being a self-righteous evil
little man. Or are you just too stupid or insane to realize what you
are doing?
Stephen Bishop
>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>On 03 Feb 2009 19:04:28 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>
>>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>>On 03 Feb 2009 03:57:52 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>>>>On 01 Feb 2009 22:42:07 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Chris H <ch...@phaedsys.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Not biased. After careful non-biased study it is the only sensible
>>>>>>>>>arrangement. Remove the aggressors. Israelis behaviour from day 1 has
>>>>>>>>>shown it does not deserve to keep the land it has taken from the
>>>>>>>>>Palestinians
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Like I said, you are biased.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So far you've accused everybody posting here who disagrees with of
>>>>>>>being biased, as well as the UN, the BBC, and everybody else critical
>>>>>>>of Israel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I have pointed out biased statements where they exist.
>>>>>
>>>>>That's a lie. You have made wild accusations of bias INSTEAD of
>>>>>pointing out actual, certifiable bias.
>>>>
>>>>He maintains that
>>>
>>>You're changing the subject.
>
>Where is the actual bias, bigot?
>
>Let's see your evidence.
You've already shown that any evidence you don't like you just clip
away and deny it exists; and then distort what was really said.
No, thanks, I'm not playing that game any more. There's no sense
trying to discuss things logically with a bigot like you. All it
does is gets you mad.
>>>>>>while not showing
>>>>>>equal outrage at what Palestinian militants have been doing to Israeli
>>>>>>civilians for decades is biased.
>>>>>
>>>>>Which makes you biased.
>>>>
>>>>What a fool you are.
>>>
>>>By your own words you are biased.
>>>
>>>> Read what I said. I said "showing equal
>>>>outrage" at what the other side is doing. Asking for equal treatment
>>>>is not bias.
>>>
>>>You're not asking for equal treatment. You're showing bias.
>>>
>>>Where's your outrage at Israeli abuses?
>>>
>>>Totally absent.
>>
>>My outrage toward that is in the same place as your outrage at all the
>
>The bigot tries to shift the blame yet again.
The self-righteous bigot again pretends that the side he supports is
blameless while making wild accusations.
Ray Fischer
Let's see how you spin this.
> Read the entire
>article, you idiot.
Read it. Isreal has REJECTED an offer from the Arab league to get
peace and recognition in exchange for a withdrawal from all occupied
territories.
> It says they extended that offer as a possible
>negotiation point, but they DO NOT recognize Israel.
Because Israel rejected the offer. You failed to provide evidence of
this "hate" you claimed exists and you excuse Israel's rejection of
peace.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Ray Fischer
I didn't ask for YOUR bias, asshole.
>No, thanks, I'm not playing that game any more.
Once again you lied and now you're running away.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Stephen Bishop
Yet again you attempt to change the point to cover up your ignorance.
The point, fool, is that those countries DO NOT recognize Israel. The
status of peace negotiations and the maneuvering positions either side
takes during the process is a different subject altogether.
You live in California, don't you? Let's suppose that the Mexican
government never recognized the legitimacy of the United States, and
they extended an offer to formally recognize the USA and stop shipping
illegal immigrants and drug traffic over the border... But only if we
*FIRST* gave back all the land captured during the Mexican War. What
would you do then, Ray? Where would your bleeding heart, pony
tailed, hate-all-rightards bigoted self go?
¿Hable Español, boludo?
Stephen Bishop
Your stupid quips don't change the fact that you clip away any
evidence that you don't like to see, and you constantly distort what
has been said to try to prove your meaningless points.
Ray Fischer
>On 04 Feb 2009 04:59:12 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>
>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>> rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>>>HEMI-Powered <no...@none.gn> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>>I have pointed out biased statements where they exist.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>That's a lie. You have made wild accusations of bias INSTEAD of
>>>>>>>pointing out actual, certifiable bias.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He maintains that Israel has no right to exist. That is actual,
>>>>>> certifiable bias. Where have you been?
>>>>>
>>>>>This is the essential part of the entire debate - namely that for
>>>>>reasons really hard to fathom, much of the world and certainly almost
>>>>>ALL of the Arab/Muslim countries and regions hate Israel so much as
>>>>
>>>>Neonazi bigotry and propaganda.
>>>
>>>How do you deny something that is so easily and openly verifiable?
>>
>>Then why don't you verify it, sleazebag? Instead of spewing your
>>usual bigotry, let's see you provide some actual facts.
>
>The bigot asks for facts while using his request as a platform to spew
Run away!
>The facts, open for all to see without even looking hard, are that
>only two Arab nations recognize Israel as a nation.
The facts, which YOU posted, is that ISRAEL HAS REFUSED TO ACCEPT
PEACE in exchange for that recognition.
You bigots love to spin facts your way.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Stephen Bishop
>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>On 04 Feb 2009 04:59:12 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>
>>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>> rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>>>>HEMI-Powered <no...@none.gn> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>I have pointed out biased statements where they exist.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>That's a lie. You have made wild accusations of bias INSTEAD of
>>>>>>>>pointing out actual, certifiable bias.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He maintains that Israel has no right to exist. That is actual,
>>>>>>> certifiable bias. Where have you been?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>This is the essential part of the entire debate - namely that for
>>>>>>reasons really hard to fathom, much of the world and certainly almost
>>>>>>ALL of the Arab/Muslim countries and regions hate Israel so much as
>>>>>
>>>>>Neonazi bigotry and propaganda.
>>>>
>>>>How do you deny something that is so easily and openly verifiable?
>>>
>>>Then why don't you verify it, sleazebag? Instead of spewing your
>>>usual bigotry, let's see you provide some actual facts.
>>
>>The bigot asks for facts while using his request as a platform to spew
>
>Run away!
Standard Ray-on-the-ropes lack of response .
>
>>The facts, open for all to see without even looking hard, are that
>>only two Arab nations recognize Israel as a nation.
>
>The facts, which YOU posted, is that ISRAEL HAS REFUSED TO ACCEPT
>PEACE in exchange for that recognition.
The fact, which you deleted from what I posted, is that only two Arab
nations recognize Israel. Whatever peace proposals are on the table
from either side is irrelevent until that peace is achieved.
And in your usual bigoted style, you don't address the reason why
Israel has refused to accept that proposal, nor did you investigate
any counter-proposals they have made. Instead, like the true bigot
you are, you just pick and choose the portions of the facts that seem
to justify your own narrow opinions.
>
>You bigots love to spin facts your way.
The record shows otherwise. Bigots like yourself love to cherry-pick
words and present them as "facts" to paint a misleading picture.
The sad thing is that you apparently actually believe that you are not
doing anything wrong when you do this.
Ray Fischer
>On 06 Feb 2009 04:37:40 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>
>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>On 04 Feb 2009 04:59:12 GMT, rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>>
>>>>Stephen Bishop <nospam...@now.com> wrote:
>>>>> rfis...@sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote:
>>>>>>HEMI-Powered <no...@none.gn> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I have pointed out biased statements where they exist.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>That's a lie. You have made wild accusations of bias INSTEAD of
>>>>>>>>>pointing out actual, certifiable bias.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> He maintains that Israel has no right to exist. That is actual,
>>>>>>>> certifiable bias. Where have you been?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>This is the essential part of the entire debate - namely that for
>>>>>>>reasons really hard to fathom, much of the world and certainly almost
>>>>>>>ALL of the Arab/Muslim countries and regions hate Israel so much as
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Neonazi bigotry and propaganda.
>>>>>
>>>>>How do you deny something that is so easily and openly verifiable?
>>>>
>>>>Then why don't you verify it, sleazebag? Instead of spewing your
>>>>usual bigotry, let's see you provide some actual facts.
>>>
>>>The bigot asks for facts while using his request as a platform to spew
>>
>>Run away!
>
>Standard Ray-on-the-ropes lack of response .
Where's that verification, coward?
>>>The facts, open for all to see without even looking hard, are that
>>>only two Arab nations recognize Israel as a nation.
>>
>>The facts, which YOU posted, is that ISRAEL HAS REFUSED TO ACCEPT
>>PEACE in exchange for that recognition.
>
>The fact,
Is that Israel has REFUSED TO ACCEPT PEACE in exchange for that
recognition.
--
Ray Fischer
rfis...@sonic.net
Stephen Bishop
You're such a text-clipping rayhole.