ExpressCameras.com update
Grumman-581
received a camera at one of the lowball prices that they list on their
website, but I wanted to see exactly what they would do if I placed an
order online for a D200 body and if they were still running the same
scam. I setup an email address on my domain explicitly for the
purchase so that if I start getting spam at that account, I'll know
from who it actually originated or at least who sold my email address
to the spammers. I setup a secure online account number with one of
my credit cards (that I don't tend to use anyway) so that any charges
on that number would automatically be traceable to ExpressCameras. I
even did PDF prints of the ad page in addition to the order
confirmation page from my browser.
I placed the order online last night. I immediately received this
email:
<quote>
Thank you for shopping with ExpressCameras.com. Your order number
xxxxxx has been received.
This email is to confirm the receipt of your online order. We will
contact you via email if there is any problem with your order.
Thanks again for choosing ExpressCameras.com. We appreciate your
business.
</quote>
OK, so far, so good... I expected to receive an email today asking me
to 'confirm' the order so that they could try their bait and switch
tactics or as they like to call it 'upsell'. As such, I was prepared
to record the phone call to my computer for evidence of their shady
practices, rude customer interaction techniques, or whatever.
Instead, I received the following email this morning:
<quote>
Dear xxxxxxxxxx,
Unfortunately we are currently oversold on the item you have ordered,
and it is currently on a backorder. Therefore, your order has been
canceled. Please note, your credit card has not been charged.
Your cancellation number is:xxxxxx
The email address that you provided to us has been added to our
"Notify List" and we will notify you as soon as the product becomes
available.
How Does Our "Notify List" Work?
Once the product you ordered comes back in stock, we will email you to
notify you that your item is back in stock. If you which to re-place
your order you may do so by clicking on the link which will be in the
email.
Please accept our personal and sincere apology for any inconvenience
you experienced with this order.
We know that you have many options for your camera/photo needs. We
appreciate that you selected ExpressCameras.com, which prides itself
on superior products and services, and we are sorry that we were not
able to meet your needs in this instance.
If there is any additional assistance we can provide, please feel free
to email us.
Sincerely,
Shipping Department.
</quote>
Hmmm... Not exactly what I was expecting... I have to wonder if
perhaps the fact that they're under investigation is making them
modify their behavior a bit. I figured that I had everything covered
enough that they couldn't actually screw me over. I was more than
willing to let them prove to me that they weren't a scammer by selling
me a D200 body for $499.
RichA
wrote:
The scumbags also offered Olympus E-500 bodies for $350.00
I'm wondering what exactly they get out of cancelling orders?
Magic Lantern
>> enough that they couldn't actually screw me over. I was more than
>> willing to let them prove to me that they weren't a scammer by selling
>> me a D200 body for $499.
>
> The scumbags also offered Olympus E-500 bodies for $350.00
> I'm wondering what exactly they get out of cancelling orders?
Interesting. They underprice Nikon and overprice Olympus... Still doesn't
explain what they get out of canceling orders though...
Grumman-581
> The scumbags also offered Olympus E-500 bodies for $350.00
> I'm wondering what exactly they get out of cancelling orders?
I've also started a test with BestPriceCameras to see how they run their
scam. Initially, I called to see if they had the D200 Package #2 in
stock (18-55mm Nikon lens plus other stuff that they normally overprice)
for $808 with free shipping.
http://www.bestpricecameras.com/prodetails.aspx?prodid=557667&up=362469
After waiting 20 minutes on hold, I spoke with someone of a typical NYer
area accent. He asked me if I wanted a battery with that and I informed
him that I was under the impression that it came with one. He insisted
that it didn't and after I told him that I was fairly sure that I had
seen that it came with a battery, he said something in a rather rude
tone and hung up on me.
Obviously, they're a typical NY camera shop scam operator, but I'm
willing to allow them to prove me wrong and sell me a D200 + 18-55mm
Nikon lens for $808. I just *dare* them to do it!
Alexander Arnakis
>
>Interesting. They underprice Nikon and overprice Olympus... Still doesn't
>explain what they get out of canceling orders though...
Maybe they're just compiling a list of e-mail addresses to sell to
spammers...
C J Campbell
(in article <45ef5242$0$24710$4c36...@roadrunner.com>):
You know, depending on what they charge for the battery, you still might come
out ahead getting the kit sans battery and ordering the battery from a
reputable shop.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor
Grumman-581
<inv...@address.none> wrote:
> Maybe they're just compiling a list of e-mail addresses to sell to
> spammers...
One would think that there would be easier ways than that do get email
addresses... Regardless, it won't do them much good in my case since I
will end up deleting the email account from my domain after I'm
through with the test... Of course, I just *dare* them to prove me
wrong and sell me the D200 for their advertised price!
Since the D200 is made in Thailand, I have to wonder if it is even
possible to buy it at that heavily of a discounted price if you are
over there... I know someone who is currently visiting Beijing... Any
chance the prices over there are significantly cheaper than here in
the US?
On a side note, I don't see a major variation in the prices quoted
even by the NY scam camera sites for the Pentax K10D... Perhaps
$100-200 cheaper than what might be found at B&H or your local Ritz or
Wolf shop, but not tremendously different... I haven't tried buying a
K10D from any of the shops yet since the price is not different enough
to warrant the gamble of actually getting what I tried to purchase...
I figure if by some strange occurance I end up getting a D200 at the
quoted prices, I could definitely learn to "put up with it"... The
risk/benefit ratio is not enough for me to try this test for the K10D
though...
Grumman-581
<christopherc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> You know, depending on what they charge for the battery, you still might come
> out ahead getting the kit sans battery and ordering the battery from a
> reputable shop.
I suspect that they would charge quite a bit more for a battery than
any reputable shop would... Regardless, I just *dare* them to sell me
a D200 at that price!
Jeremy Nixon
> You know, depending on what they charge for the battery, you still might
> come out ahead getting the kit sans battery and ordering the battery
> from a reputable shop.
I was thinking the same thing, but the typical reports on scams like this
are that if you don't order the overpriced "accessories", the camera
suddenly goes out of stock and your order is canceled.
It's still interesting that they canceled the order right off, though.
--
Jeremy | jer...@exit109.com
Don Wiss
>You know, depending on what they charge for the battery, you still might come
>out ahead getting the kit sans battery and ordering the battery from a
>reputable shop.
Unlikely. Chances are the camera is refurbished or a gray market model. You
are not going to get a deal from these places.
Don <www.donwiss.com> (e-mail link at home page bottom).
ilaab
"C J Campbell" <christopherc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0001HW.C214A1A5...@news.wavecable.com...
They continue to lead you down the accessories road similar to having to add
a steering wheel and a driver's seat to a new car you order. They tell you
that since the "EOS whatever" or "D whatever" is a "professional" camera,
that the standard battery(extra expense) needs to be upgraded anyway to a
professional battery. They continue with piling up the accessories with
"either/or" questions which confuse the unwary.
Ilaab
> World Famous Flight Instructor
>
Mark˛
No. In the unlikely event that he receives ANYTHING...he'll receive a
severely used body, with a manual in another language...without a box, and
missing several accessories.
This exact thing happened to a complete idiot I have the displeasure of
knowing personally. He swore endlessly that he could buy a 5D super
cheap...blah blah blah. I tried my best to talk him out of it, but he went
ahead and sent his money. He got exactly what I described above... Total
crap. I grit my teeth and forced myself not to say "I tried to warn you"
and instead just expressed my sympathy. I have to admit that I found a
certain sick satisfaction in seeing his utter disregard of my repeated
warnings come back to bite him...
The guy is a complete idiot on numerous levels, though, so it was especially
hard to feel sorry for him.
--
Images (Plus Snaps & Grabs) by Mark² at:
www.pbase.com/markuson
Mark˛
Quit talking like a "double-dog-dare" kid on the playground, and take your
business to a real camera shop.
I don't mean to be harsh, but they could give a darn about anything you say
here, or on the phone.
Mark˛
Perhaps they read newsgroups...
Phil, Non-Squid
Why do you even bother? It's not like a mail-in rebate where it's a gamble
whether the consumer's going to send it in or not. It's simply, if you
don't buy the overpriced accessory ($1.50 battery for $199) then you simply
don't get the product. Period. You're wasting your time "testing the
waters."
--
Phil
Jim
<grumm...@DIE-SPAMMER-SCUM-gmail.com> said:
Yet another scam artisit. Buy from reliable retailers. Some who sells
under the medain in camera sales is not legit. There is a price and
Adorama and B&H are pretty good guidelines. anyone who strays much
beldow these two is illegit.
Grumman-581
> Why do you even bother? It's not like a mail-in rebate where it's a gamble
> whether the consumer's going to send it in or not. It's simply, if you
> don't buy the overpriced accessory ($1.50 battery for $199) then you simply
> don't get the product. Period. You're wasting your time "testing the
> waters."
Sometimes people ask about these resellers and quoting what I had heard
had happened to someone else is not really acceptable for me... I figure
that if I'm going to tell someone to avoid a particular reseller, I
should have experience with that reseller... At the very least, I should
sample a couple of the ones whose prices look the most suspicious to at
least get a good sample set...
One of the problems with sites that allow people to post their
experiences with resellers is that they can be compromised by people
basically posting anonymously where either the person has an axe to
grind with the company, they are a competitor, or they actually work for
the company and post bogus good reviews... I'm not anonymous since
anyone can easily lookup my aircraft identifier in the FAA database...
I'm far enough away that I don't have any vested interest in making the
company look good... In addition, it wouldn't take much research to show
that I am not involved in the camera sales and as such have no
affiliation with any of their competitors... By posting my experiences
to USENET, it will be archived for posterity, even after the various
domains where others are posting their experiences are gone...
bob crownfield
> On 2007-03-07 15:16:35 -0500, Grumman-581
> <grumm...@DIE-SPAMMER-SCUM-gmail.com> said:
>
>
> Yet another scam artisit.
wrong.
> Buy from reliable retailers. Some who sells
> under the medain in camera sales is not legit. There is a price and
> Adorama and B&H are pretty good guidelines. anyone who strays much
> beldow these two is illegit.
another talk first, think later post.
>
Karl Winkler
wrote:
My prediction is that you'll receive an email or phone call from them
some time in the future when they've figured out how to play this one.
It will go something like this:
Dear xxxxx,
We have received a shipment of the product you attempted to order
earlier. The price is now $xxx for that item.
In other words, they'll make an effort to reel you in, and then as
others have pointed out, they'll try to work you over with upcharges
on the standard accessories and shipping charges.
-Karl
Mark˛
> Phil, Non-Squid wrote:
>> Why do you even bother? It's not like a mail-in rebate where it's a
>> gamble whether the consumer's going to send it in or not. It's
>> simply, if you don't buy the overpriced accessory ($1.50 battery for
>> $199) then you simply don't get the product. Period. You're
>> wasting your time "testing the waters."
>
> Sometimes people ask about these resellers and quoting what I had
> heard had happened to someone else is not really acceptable for me...
> I figure that if I'm going to tell someone to avoid a particular
> reseller, I should have experience with that reseller...
Do you similarly re-invent the wheel each time you face a problem??
Phil, Non-Squid
A philanthropist; why thank you.
--
Phil
Grumman-581
number here)@cox..net> wrote:
> Do you similarly re-invent the wheel each time you face a problem??
Kind of depends upon the problem... As a software developer, I tend to
put more faith in libraries that I've created over the years vs ones
that might happen to be on the platform for which I'm creating a
system... Let's just say that I put more faith in the wheel that I
developed vs the square wheel that Microsoft keeps saying will work...
<grin>