One-shot C-41
Michael A. Covington
HC-110 developer on a one-shot basis; I reuse fixer somewhat (though not to
full capacity) and then give it to a local lab that extracts the silver.
I'm wondering about doing my own C-41, primarily in order to get
scratch-free processing of negatives. (I then make the prints digitally.)
Is there a simple one-shot liquid-concentrate version of the C-41 process,
so that I could mix only the chemicals actually needed for each roll at the
time they're needed?
I realize there is probably no color chemical that stores as well as HC-110,
but advice and suggestions would be welcome. I've done a little E-6
processing. Keeping the temperature regulated with a water bath is no
problem.
Schatzie
website -- supposedly they were going to have it in tableted form. I
haven't seen it in any of the usual suspects like B&H, however.
"Michael A. Covington" <see.www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address@x>
wrote in message news:T7wS6.4547$Zy.41...@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net...
Rolfe Tessem
I think the Tetenal C-41 kits will do what you want. I use the
five-liter kit and usually mix up a liter at a time, but you can mix up
as little as you like. (The chemicals come as liquid concentrates). I
find that a well-stoppered bottle of working solution keeps well enough
that I go through a liter well before it goes bad.
This is a very convenient two-step process (developer and blix) with the
stablizer step done off the reels or the processor. When done in a Jobo
(I use an ATL-1000) it is actually easier and faster than B&W.
--
Rolfe Tessem | Lucky Duck Productions, Inc.
ro...@ldp.com | 96 Morton Street
(212) 463-0029 | New York, NY 10014
Francis A. Miniter
You can look up Bill Laut's article from 2 years ago in rec.photo.darkroom on
Home Brewing of C-41 and RA-4, or, if you would like I can send you a copy of
it, either in ASCII or WordPerfect. I now compound my color chemistry as I need
it. It is much cheaper than buying it and much fresher.
Francis A. Miniter
Michael A. Covington
> five-liter kit and usually mix up a liter at a time, but you can mix up
> as little as you like. (The chemicals come as liquid concentrates). I
> find that a well-stoppered bottle of working solution keeps well enough
> that I go through a liter well before it goes bad.
Thanks. I'm about to use a Tetenal E-6 kit, and if it serves me well, I'll
look at their C-41 products.
Does one of their larger E-6 kits lend itself to one-shot use, I wonder?
Rolfe Tessem
Really, these kits should all be considered one-shot, which suggests
that you want to use the minimum volume necessary, which in turn
suggests rotary processing.
The nice thing about the Tetenal kits is that they make it easy to mix
up, depending on your needs. For example, the five liter C-41 kit has
three color developer concentrates which are mixed to a working
solution. The manual gives three simple alternatives:
700ml water + 100ml pt.1 + 100ml pt.2 + 100ml pt.3 =1 liter
3500ml water+ 500ml pt.1 + 500ml pt.2 + 500ml pt.3 =5 liters
7 parts water + 1 part pt.1 + 1 part pt.2 + 1 part pt.3 =total desired
volume.
This is *much* easier than some other manufacturer's kits.
Michael A. Covington
> that you want to use the minimum volume necessary, which in turn
> suggests rotary processing.
Can you tell me more about rotary processing for film? I gather you have a
tank that is only partly full and is automatically rotated continuously so
that it covers all of the film?
dmorrell
"Michael A. Covington" <see.www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address@x> wrote:
>Snip
Tetenal brought out a single use kit in Britain earlier this year. It is
called Colortec© C-41 Phototabs. It processes up to 12 films.
One developer tablet and two bleach fix tablets do one film in a small
single 35mm Jobo tank.
I have done both Fuji colour neg., Ilford XP2 and Kodak T400CN in this
kit with excellent results.
Hope this helps
Dave
--
Dave Morrell
Middlesbrough
Michael A. Covington
> called Colortec© C-41 Phototabs. It processes up to 12 films.
>
> One developer tablet and two bleach fix tablets do one film in a small
> single 35mm Jobo tank.
That sounds like just what I need. I don't think Jobo (the Tetenal
importer) for the USA is importing it yet.
I'd be delighted if they'd do E-6 the same way.
Rolfe Tessem
Yes, that's the idea. The amount of chemistry used is remarkably small.
For example, a single roll of 120 (or 35mm) only takes 125ml in the 2500
series tanks on my Jobo ATL-1000. I believe the 1500 series tanks may
take even less.
Jobo is the main supplier of this type of equipment, and there is a wide
variety to choose from. I'd suggest a visit to the company's web site
for more info.
CanoeCedar
getting ready to start developing color film and am leaning towards tetenal.
An earlier posted said you could mix up 1 liter of solution or the whole 5
liter batch. There are multiple steps to the process so I'm assuming you can
mix all steps in the same fashion, correct? How long does the mixed solution
last, I've heard 2 weeks correct? And the unmixed portion last ~6 months,
correct?
Nathan
Rolfe Tessem
There are only two steps -- developer and blix. They are done similarly,
and IMHO, the Tetenal chemicals are the most user-friendly in terms of
mixing up the exact amount you want to use. For example, with the
five-liter kit (and the five-liter kits are more economical than the
1-liter kits) you get easy instructions as to how to mix up the whole
five liters, one liter, or any arbitrary amount by proportions. What do
I mean by user-friendly? I mean that Tetenal has designed the
concentrates so that you mix up even round numbers to get what you
probably want. Such as, for BLIX, 600ml water + 200 part 1 + 200 ml part
2 = 1 liter. Amazingly, not all of the manufacturers do this, requiring
you to mix oddball amounts (i.e. 543 ml) of something to get what you want.
The mixed solution lasts a lot longer than 2 weeks, and probably has to
do with how fast the developer oxidizes. This, in turn, probably has a
lot do with how much air is in the partially filled bottle. If you're
really obsessive and fill the bottle with marbles or inert gas, I would
guess you can get several months out of a partially used C-41 developer.
If you just let it sit there, I think two months is realistic.
Fortunately, the developer turns a really ugly color as it oxidizes so
with a little experience you can tell from looking at the developer if
its shot.
As to unmixed portions of the concentrate, I've never had it go bad but
I've probably always used it within 6 months. I think it probably does
go longer than that though.
At least that is my experience.
As always, YMMV :-).
CanoeCedar
about stabilizer?
Also could you shed some light on RA4 paper chemistry from Tetenal? How does
that system work? Storage life of chemicals etc.
TIA
Nathan
Herbert Kanner
canoe...@aol.com (CanoeCedar) wrote:
The Tetenal Mono C41 kit includes stabilizer. I use the 1 liter size,
because that will be good for six rolls of ISO 400 film (eight rolls of
slower film). The kit does include stabilizer. I mix up half a kit at
a time becuase that is what my two-roll stainless steel tank wants. The
kit does include stabilizer. Tetenal does not recommend mixing up part
of this kit in the case of the stabilizer because of the small amount
involved: 10 ml of the concentrate for half a kit. I ignore this
caution. I am fully capable of measuring 10 ml.!
The RA-4 kit I recommend is Mono PK RA-4. This is a room temperature
kit; I develop in trays. Tetenal says the concentrate after opening will
keep 6 months if protected with their gas spray and working solutions,
if half used, but filled to the brim should last three months. 500 ml
of working solution is good for 10 8 x 10 prints.
The developer for eigher kit must have the hell shaken out of it to mix
it thoroughly before measuring off part of a kit.
Herb
--
In addressing email, replace "acmd" by "acm".
--
Herbert Kanner <kan...@acmd.org>
dmorrell
"Michael A. Covington" <see.www.covingtoninnovations.com.for.address@x> wrote:
I nearly forgot. They also have a stabiliser pill to finish with.
I agree roll on E6 pills
Rolfe Tessem
>
> Thanks a lot for the response. I didn't realize there were only 2 steps. What
> about stabilizer?
The stabilizer is a separate step, but isn't normally counted because it
is done off the reels and off the processor. It is supplied in an
extremely concentrated form, sort of like Photo-Flo. The simplest way to
deal with it is to find a tupperware-like container that will hold 2 1/2
liters and mix up half at a time. The temperature on the stabilizer
isn't really very important. This stuff seems to pretty much last
forever. The reason it is done off the reels is that the stablizer
attacks the plastic reels and leaves a scum-like subtstance over time
that makes the reels very difficult to load.
> Also could you shed some light on RA4 paper chemistry from Tetenal? How does
> that system work? Storage life of chemicals etc.
It is similar to the C-41 stuff, in that there are only two chemicals --
developer and blix. Same easy proportions to mix up as C-41. For the
stop bath, you just use whatever you want -- it's the same as B&W stop
bath. Personally, I use the Ilford stuff since its made from citric acid
and doesn't smell as bad as the acidic acid based stuff. I use it in a
Nova Quad processor, replentish periodically, and haven't had any
problems with chemicals going bad. In general, I think RA-4 is pretty
stable, especially if you protect it from contacting air as much as
possible. The Novas have tubes that float in the slots when you're not
using it for this purpose.
Michael A. Covington
Tetenal's US importer tells me they're very likely to do that, in a year or
so.
Klaus Schmaranz
H> The Tetenal Mono C41 kit includes stabilizer. I use the 1 liter size,
H> because that will be good for six rolls of ISO 400 film (eight rolls of
H> slower film). The kit does include stabilizer. I mix up half a kit at
The capacity you quote is from the 1/2 liter kit!
H> a time becuase that is what my two-roll stainless steel tank wants. The
H> kit does include stabilizer. Tetenal does not recommend mixing up part
H> of this kit in the case of the stabilizer because of the small amount
H> involved: 10 ml of the concentrate for half a kit. I ignore this
H> caution. I am fully capable of measuring 10 ml.!
That's not the problem. There are two kits, one comes in powders, the
other with liquid concentrates. The liquid one is not sold here any
longer. The problem for both is quite the same: the powders are not
absolutely "homogeneous" (in the powder version), and the developer
liquid is not homogeneous either (in the liquid version), i.e. taking
half of the powder/liquid does not mean you get half of each of the
chemicals included. You can nearly fully overcome this problem by
shaking the packets/bottles for a while (dev. concentrate for a long
while!) before opening, but there's no guarantee.
H> The RA-4 kit I recommend is Mono PK RA-4. This is a room temperature
H> kit; I develop in trays. Tetenal says the concentrate after opening will
H> keep 6 months if protected with their gas spray and working solutions,
H> if half used, but filled to the brim should last three months. 500 ml
H> of working solution is good for 10 8 x 10 prints.
Sorry to correct you again - Tetenal rates the capacity of the 2.5l
kit to 5m^2, which corresponds to 97 sheets 8x10. So 500 ml are good
for some 19 sheets. Tried that with Kodak Supra and Ultra as well as
with Fuji Crystal Archive paper and found that the numbers are quite
ok. Most of the time I'm using this chemistry in a roller processor,
which means that for Kodak Ultra you have to raise the process
temperature a little (some 1.5 deg C) for the last 1/4 towards
exhaustion to make sure it is fully developed. For the other papers I
didn't have to do that.
H> The developer for eigher kit must have the hell shaken out of it to mix
H> it thoroughly before measuring off part of a kit.
Yup, but this does not guarantee anything, I wouldn't really recommend
this procedure.
Klaus.
Herbert Kanner
<ksc...@iicm.edu> wrote:
> >>>>> "H" == Herbert Kanner <kan...@acmd.org> writes:
>
> H> The Tetenal Mono C41 kit includes stabilizer. I use the 1 liter size,
> H> because that will be good for six rolls of ISO 400 film (eight rolls
> of
> H> slower film). The kit does include stabilizer. I mix up half a kit
> at
>
> The capacity you quote is from the 1/2 liter kit!
>
> H> a time becuase that is what my two-roll stainless steel tank wants.
> The
> H> kit does include stabilizer. Tetenal does not recommend mixing up
> part
> H> of this kit in the case of the stabilizer because of the small amount
> H> involved: 10 ml of the concentrate for half a kit. I ignore this
> H> caution. I am fully capable of measuring 10 ml.!
>
> That's not the problem. There are two kits, one comes in powders, the
> other with liquid concentrates. The liquid one is not sold here any
> longer. The problem for both is quite the same: the powders are not
> absolutely "homogeneous" (in the powder version), and the developer
> liquid is not homogeneous either (in the liquid version), i.e. taking
> half of the powder/liquid does not mean you get half of each of the
> chemicals included. You can nearly fully overcome this problem by
> shaking the packets/bottles for a while (dev. concentrate for a long
> while!) before opening, but there's no guarantee.
If the liquid kit is not sold here any more, that is news to me. I just
bought one. Because of what you wrote, I looked just now on the JOBO
web site. THe Mono C41 kit is alive and well.
>
> H> The RA-4 kit I recommend is Mono PK RA-4. This is a room temperature
> H> kit; I develop in trays. Tetenal says the concentrate after opening
> will
> H> keep 6 months if protected with their gas spray and working solutions,
> H> if half used, but filled to the brim should last three months. 500 ml
> H> of working solution is good for 10 8 x 10 prints.
>
> Sorry to correct you again - Tetenal rates the capacity of the 2.5l
> kit to 5m^2, which corresponds to 97 sheets 8x10. So 500 ml are good
> for some 19 sheets. Tried that with Kodak Supra and Ultra as well as
> with Fuji Crystal Archive paper and found that the numbers are quite
> ok. Most of the time I'm using this chemistry in a roller processor,
> which means that for Kodak Ultra you have to raise the process
> temperature a little (some 1.5 deg C) for the last 1/4 towards
> exhaustion to make sure it is fully developed. For the other papers I
> didn't have to do that.
That was a typo. I should learn to proof read things before I send
them. Of course, it is 19 prints. I always do 19, sometimes even do a
20th. When I first used the kit, I printed the same neg as no. 1 and
no. 19. The 19th came out a wee bit lighter, but I had to overlap the
two prints to discern this.
>
> H> The developer for eigher kit must have the hell shaken out of it to
> mix
> H> it thoroughly before measuring off part of a kit.
>
> Yup, but this does not guarantee anything, I wouldn't really recommend
> this procedure.
The developer concentrate when standing has a layer of white precipitate
at the bottom of the bottle. If part of the bottle is to be used, it
must be shaken well and long to homognize it. The instructions say to
do this.
Herb
>
> Klaus.