What are internegs for?
pasley
This question has come and gone from my mind for 15 years. What are
internegatives for? When I used to make prints from slides, I used
Cibachrome paper. What is an internegative, what does it look like,
what advantage or disadvantage does it offer.
Gary Cruse
Suppose your camera is loaded with
color negative print film. And
you take a picture of a slide.
When you have the film developed, you
will have a negative from which you
can make pictures of your slide.
This is an internegative. Paper
used to make prints from negs (Type C) is
a lot cheaper than paper (Type R) used to
make prints from slides. So it is
a lot cheaper to make 100 4x5's of
a slide using type C paper. The
cost of the internegative is repaid
manifold. However, if you only
want one print from the slide, the
added cost of the interneg may
make price of the single print
higher than type R.
--
Gary
________
Michael Gudzinowicz
pasley <pas...@erols.com> writes:
>This question has come and gone from my mind for 15 years. What are
>internegatives for? When I used to make prints from slides, I used
>Cibachrome paper. What is an internegative, what does it look like, what
>advantage or disadvantage does it offer.
Internegative film provides a color negative from a slide or from prints
for copywork, and it is printed on type C paper. The film from commonly
used negative films in one important respect - the contrast of the color
layers increases with exposure. By selective filtration and exposure,
color crossover and fading in the original can be corrected, contrast may
be adjusted, the negative can be tailored to a certain paper's
characteristics, and color reproduction is usually better than that
afforded by type R and Ilfochrome materials. In order to avoid losses in
sharpness and granularity, it is advisable to use medium format or 4x5
film for internegatives from 35 mm when high quality prints are
required. This type of service is generally offered by better custom
labs, however the exact corrections required should be discussed with the
lab - many custom labs gloss over "details".
Internegative or regular color film also is used by one hour labs to make
cheap quick uncorrected 35mm internegatives for type C machine prints to
simplify their processing. Often, these are called "disposible"
internegatives for good reason, but they provide a cheap solution when a
3x or 4x print is required.
pasley
Gary Cruse wrote:
> you will have a negative from which you can make pictures of your slide. This is an internegative. Paper used to make prints from negs (Type C) is a lot cheaper than paper (Type R) used to make prints from slides.
> --
> Gary
>
Thanks for the interneg info. That being the case, here's my story. I
had a roll of Agfa CT-x 100 slide film processed. The lab obviously
goofed and used C-41 processing and gave me twin prints instead of E-6
and slide mounts. The negatives have a clear margin, the colors in the
prints are basicly correct (the darker, warmer tones are exagerated and
really pop) and the prints have that sharp, contrasty Cibachrome look.
I thought that when slide film undergoes the C-41 process, the colors
would be way off. These prints look pretty good, but I REALLY needed
and wanted slides. I suppose now I must copy these negatives on to
negative film to get slides. Will I loose much detail and color when I
finally get slides?
C.A.M.P.
Gary Cruse
Sometimes cross-processed film looks
acceptable, sometimes not. The readers
of this NG (film+labs) seem to do
this a lot deliberately. If you want
slides from this film at this point,
given the misprocessing, have slides
made on print film transparency material
direct from your negs. No interneg
is required.
--
Gary
________
Carl Anderson
pasley wrote:
>
> This question has come and gone from my mind for 15 years. What are
> internegatives for? When I used to make prints from slides, I used
> Cibachrome paper. What is an internegative, what does it look like,
> what advantage or disadvantage does it offer.
Internegatives offer a more cost effective method of getting prints from
transparencies with better(lower) contrast than cibachrome. Direct type
R printing gives a sharper, more saturated print ( 1 vs. 2 generations),
but with higher contrast and at a greater cost. Transparency film was
never designed to be printed on photo paper so whatever method is used,
some trade-offs must be expected.
Carl Anderson
Hampton Roads Photography
phot...@styx.ios.com
: and slide mounts. The negatives have a clear margin, the colors in the
: prints are basicly correct (the darker, warmer tones are exagerated and
: really pop) and the prints have that sharp, contrasty Cibachrome look.
: I thought that when slide film undergoes the C-41 process, the colors
: would be way off. These prints look pretty good, but I REALLY needed
: and wanted slides. I suppose now I must copy these negatives on to
: negative film to get slides. Will I loose much detail and color when I
: finally get slides?
Don't do that. Among other things, you'd get slides with the negative
film's orange mask throughout the image. Better to use Kodak's "slide
film" (it's called print film in sheets) directly from the original film
or just shoot copy slides of your prints. I suggest the latter since slide
film is such a beast to work with.
John C.
Technical Photo & Imaging
swhh...@light.softnet.co.uk
Gary Cruse wrote:
> you will have a negative from which you can make pictures of your slide. This is an internegative.
Paper used to make prints from negs (Type C) is a lot cheaper than paper (Type R) used to make prints from
slides.
> --
> Gary
>
Thanks for the interneg info. That being the case, here's my story. I
had a roll of Agfa CT-x 100 slide film processed. The lab obviously
goofed and used C-41 processing and gave me twin prints instead of E-6
and slide mounts. The negatives have a clear margin, the colors in the
prints are basicly correct (the darker, warmer tones are exagerated and
really pop) and the prints have that sharp, contrasty Cibachrome look.
I thought that when slide film undergoes the C-41 process, the colors
would be way off. These prints look pretty good, but I REALLY needed
and wanted slides. I suppose now I must copy these negatives on to
negative film to get slides. Will I loose much detail and color when I
finally get slides?
C.A.M.P.
--
phi...@light.softnet.co.uk
If the lab has gone wrong and no doubt easy to prove just inform them that you wanted slides as it was a
slide film, they have choicesd of how to get there.
2
Slides can be made from col neg film ifmthey have put it trhrough C41 then have you got slides only in
reverse of the colours IE negative slide if so they can easily scan onto computer then right a slide
through a film recorder. Expensive but if they glangered it is up.,to them to stand the cost Doing it
yourself if they gave you a good print just copy it back to slide film.
Ron Frank
Carl Anderson wrote:
>
> pasley wrote:
> >
> > This question has come and gone from my mind for 15 years. What are
> > internegatives for? When I used to make prints from slides, I used
> > Cibachrome paper. What is an internegative, what does it look like,
> > what advantage or disadvantage does it offer.
Many labs don't do Ilfochrome (direct prints from a positive). So they must
make an interneg to get a print from a slide. Also the properties of paper
designed to print from negatives are different from ilfochrome which is
high in contrast and very saturated. Many prints benifit from the lower
consrast available in other papers.
A couple of the pro labs I've used also don't like enlarging from a 35mm
sized negative or positive.
Ron
David Atkins
pasley <pas...@erols.com> wrote in article <32C6F6...@erols.com>...
> This question has come and gone from my mind for 15 years. What are
> internegatives for? When I used to make prints from slides, I used
> Cibachrome paper. What is an internegative, what does it look like,
> what advantage or disadvantage does it offer.
>
I-negs help keep the contrast down when printing from trans orig. Can also
help keep shadow detail from blocking up. They are a special emulsion, not
regular neg material. Special exposure techniques like flashing can help
control contrast. They are usually medium format or larger. They can also
help when going to extreme enlargement sizes, both in maximum print size
and to minimize apparent grain from small originals. And lastly (that I can
currently think of) they can give you something big enough to work on for
traditional retouching. They look orange. (Sorry, couldn't help that last
comment....;-)
--
David Atkins
Custom Color Corp.
816-474-3200
pasley
Hello and Thanks to all for the info.
The lab has agreed to refund my money and make slides for me. I do have
a slide duplicater, but I don't want to go through the trouble of
correcting someone elses mistake. Actually I really like the prints,
the colors are very close to the original artwork I was shooting. I
just needed slides instead of prints. I don't know if it was the film
or the printer the gave the correct color rendition. I'll try it again
on something less critical in the future. Thanks again for your help.
C.A.M.P.
Amorrow456
When you get a response to this copy me as well. I have alot of 35mm
slides that I want to start making good prints to sell. I was told to
have a 4x5 interneg made and then do c-prints from that..
Bob Spenxer
I didn't see any response to this, if I'm duplicating info sorry.
Developing slides in neg chem. and vice versa is called cross processing
and it sometimes use to achaive special effects, but if your slides were
developed in C41 they should be negatives (with strange colors and no
orange mask). Maybe the chemicals were contaminated instead, though
x-process is not predicatable as far as I know. Anyway if you are viewing
your film and seeing everything as a positive than you would rephotograph
them with positive film, if you use negative film you'll end up with
negatives. It may be possible to color correct them when they are
rephotographed if the color is biased in one direction.
On the other hand if you are viewing the film and it is negative, then yes
in theory you could rephotograph them with negative film and end up with
positives, but neative film has a heavy orange base, and you would probably
have to again rephotograph the positive negatives (confusing 'eh) using
color correction to try and correct this...you're into 3rd generation here
and I suspect your colors are going to be very strange. A better soultion
might be to copy your prints with slide film.
swhh...@light.softnet.co.uk wrote in article
<N.010197....@n70i181.c1r3.pol.co.uk>...
Keith Doyle
In article <32CBFA...@mci.com>, Ron Frank <ronald...@mci.com> wrote:
>
>Many labs don't do Ilfochrome (direct prints from a positive). So they must
>make an interneg to get a print from a slide. Also the properties of paper
>designed to print from negatives are different from ilfochrome which is
>high in contrast and very saturated. Many prints benifit from the lower
>consrast available in other papers.
Is it practical to contact print an internegative from a 6x6 positive?
I have an enlarger that will do 35MM and 6x6-6x7 and I want to make a
B&W internegative from a 6x6 color positive. Any good tricks with regards to
setting such a thing up in the dark? Making an 8x10 interneg on sheet film
seems like it would be easier because I can compose the shot on an 8x10
easel, then turn the lights out and be reasonably able to get the sheet
film into position in the easel in the dark. However, a same size negative
would be more flexible because I could print it at any size when with an
8x10 I could only contact print the internegative.
Futzin around with 120 film in the dark to set up contact prints seems
like a major pain. If I keep it as a continuous roll, it could be developed
in a standard developing can, but managing a roll in the dark and masking it
for individual exposures seems like a pain. Cutting it up into individual
frames eliminates the masking problem, but then I've got all these little
pieces of film to develop, wash, and dry. Unfortunately, most of my positives
are already cut up into individual shots.
Also, what's the least film-wasting means of determining the proper
exposure time?
Keith Doyle
kei...@netcom.com
san...@suzy.torolab.ibm.com
Keith Doyle (kei...@netcom.com) wrote:
:
: Is it practical to contact print an internegative from a 6x6 positive?
: I have an enlarger that will do 35MM and 6x6-6x7 and I want to make a
: B&W internegative from a 6x6 color positive. Any good tricks with regards to
I've contact printed 35mm to 35mm. Yes it is a pain, with the prototype
equipment that I used (just a small piece of glass and a matched black
cardboard easel). Condit makes a plastic pin register system (uses sprocket
holes for registration) that I've seen but not used. The model I saw had
three separate hinged frames for exposing three adjacent frames on a single
sheet. The hinged frames held the originals and let the blank film slide
along underneath when open.
35mm has the advantage that you can leave the unused film in the cartridge
and turn on the lights. You can also roll the exposed film into another film
canister at the other end of the easel.
There are 70mm casettes that hold 5m of film. You may be able to put a
120/220 roll in them.
So, it is entirely feasible. I don't know of a commercial answer for 120
film, but there may be one. You can build your own as well.
Sandor
John
Whoever told you that was right. I would also suggest that if you wanted to
make prints larger than 20 inches wide, then you might want to consider
8x10 internegs instead of 4x5. The cost is marginally more once ($21.50 vs.
$12.50 in this lab), but the advantage of four times the negative area will
be enjoyed forever.
John C.
Technical Photo & Imaging
Amorrow456 <amorr...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19970104192...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...