Geezer installing a darkroom ...
ll...@the-wire.com
Rec.Photo.Darkroom has been pretty slow most
of the summer. So I'm going to use it to
celebrate my Geezerhood (turned sixty this
summer ...) by recounting the thrilling
installation of my darkroom in my latest new
home.
Unlike any darkroom I've ever had in the
past, this one has windows. No more basement
holes for me, eh? Instead of the
seventy-three inch headroom I used to have,
now it's almost twelve feet! (The room comes
with a ceiling fan - should I use it? Or is
it too efficient at dust redistribution?)
Yesterday I put the step ladder under the
window and climbed up expecting to be able to
tape aluminum foil across the panes to
achieve the requisite dark for darkroom. I
actually spent some time up there earlier in
the summer, when I was first experimenting
with windows to keep open for ventilation. It
wasn't much of a thrill that time, but this
time I realized I had to have a lot more
stability if I intended to do any actual
work, like tearing tape or holding a
scissors. Standing on the ladder's top step
and all that.
So the next step is to empty the stored stuff
out of my processing sink and roll it under
the window (sink on wheels, every boy's
dream). Then the ladder goes in the sink, and
I get three feet more reach. Immobilize the
wheels, of course. Is this just plain stupid?
Anybody who's actually read this far may feel
free to advise...
Of course, future ventilation is a concern.
Just closing and covering the windows would
be the easy way, but it will be hot in
summer. It's a north facing window, and the
air outside tends to be cool most of the time
(or at least cooler than the rest of the
hellish place when the sun and humidity
combine). So I've been thinking of a method
of blowing in fresh air through a light-proof
vent that cost nothing (unless there is one
that would leak cash). An air conditioner
would be a possibility, but light could still
get in.
There are thrilling tales to come -
connecting to the drain line and the hot and
cold water. (Convenient bathroom adjacent to
the darkroom.)
Unanswered question: why do I have so many
trays? I switched to single-tray processing
years ago. So where did all these filthy
trays come from? Or did moving just cause
them all to band together, perhaps for
survival? Well, they do not get to squat on
my bed until I'm finished the darkroom. Maybe
they can be a temporary filling for the space
between a filing cabinet and the ceiling.
regards,
--le
________________________________
Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
website: www.heylloyd.com
telephone: 416-686-0326
email: port...@heylloyd.com
________________________________
--
Thor Lancelot Simon
<Lloyd at @the-wire. dot com> wrote:
>September 1, 2009, from Lloyd Erlick,
>
>out of my processing sink and roll it under
>the window (sink on wheels, every boy's
>dream). Then the ladder goes in the sink, and
>I get three feet more reach. Immobilize the
>wheels, of course. Is this just plain stupid?
>Anybody who's actually read this far may feel
>free to advise...
You're likely to tear holes in your processing sink. Cut a piece
of plywood to size first and put the plywood in the sink and the
ladder on the plywood.
--
Thor Lancelot Simon t...@rek.tjls.com
"Even experienced UNIX users occasionally enter rm *.* at the UNIX
prompt only to realize too late that they have removed the wrong
segment of the directory structure." - Microsoft WSS whitepaper
Maciej Zielenkieiwcz
> Of course, future ventilation is a concern. Just closing and covering
> the windows would be the easy way, but it will be hot in summer. It's
> a north facing window, and the air outside tends to be cool most of
> the time (or at least cooler than the rest of the hellish place when
> the sun and humidity combine). So I've been thinking of a method of
> blowing in fresh air through a light-proof vent that cost nothing
> (unless there is one that would leak cash).
The (reasonably) simple solution to this is to replace glass in windows
with some other material. This goes quite simple if you have modern
plastic windows, then you can pull the glass out, measure the dimensions
and get a plastic or mdf board of proper size. Then inser it in place
of glass. If plastic is too transparent (depends on exact kind of
plastic, thickness and colour), paint it with black paint.
After that you can drill a hole in it, to which you attach a pipe.
Choose a size which will accomodate a standard kithen ventilator. Buy a
U-shaped pipe (probably you'd have to assemble it from pieces) and paint
inner surfaces black. Also paint fan blades.
The fan should be installed to blow air out of the room, so that it
won't pollute air in the house. If you want fresh air from the outside,
attach second pipe but without the fan, it should allow for enough cool
breeze and there would be less dust.
> An air conditioner would be a possibility, but light could still get
> in.
Standard air conditioner would not provide you with ventilation, it would be the
same air all the time, only cooler. Which means inhalating some toxic
fumes from your chemistry, which is not advisable.
--
Maciej Zielenkiewicz RLU #232362
"This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." Wolfgang Pauli
Jean-David Beyer
>
> The (reasonably) simple solution to this is to replace glass in windows
> with some other material. This goes quite simple if you have modern
> plastic windows, then you can pull the glass out, measure the dimensions
> and get a plastic or mdf board of proper size. Then inser it in place
> of glass. If plastic is too transparent (depends on exact kind of
> plastic, thickness and colour), paint it with black paint.
>
> After that you can drill a hole in it, to which you attach a pipe.
> Choose a size which will accomodate a standard kithen ventilator. Buy a
> U-shaped pipe (probably you'd have to assemble it from pieces) and paint
> inner surfaces black. Also paint fan blades.
>
> The fan should be installed to blow air out of the room,
Not really. You should blow air into the room through an air filter to
remove dust entering the room. If you blow the air out of the room, the room
will be at a partial vacuum and dust will get in from every leak.
> so that it
> won't pollute air in the house. If you want fresh air from the outside,
> attach second pipe but without the fan, it should allow for enough cool
> breeze and there would be less dust.
>
>> An air conditioner would be a possibility, but light could still get
>> in.
>
> Standard air conditioner would not provide you with ventilation, it would be the
> same air all the time, only cooler. Which means inhalating some toxic
> fumes from your chemistry, which is not advisable.
>
A standard air conditioner will provide you with ventilation. Most have a
lever that controls a small door to the outside. If you need ventilation,
though, you may not find this to be enough.
David Nebenzahl
> Maciej Zielenkieiwcz wrote:
>
>> After that you can drill a hole in it, to which you attach a pipe.
>> Choose a size which will accomodate a standard kithen ventilator.
>> Buy a U-shaped pipe (probably you'd have to assemble it from
>> pieces) and paint inner surfaces black. Also paint fan blades.
>>
>> The fan should be installed to blow air out of the room,
>
> Not really. You should blow air into the room through an air filter
> to remove dust entering the room. If you blow the air out of the
> room, the room will be at a partial vacuum and dust will get in from
> every leak.
Agreed. Positive ventilation is what a guy would want here. All air that
enters the room is filtered.
--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism
Nicholas O. Lindan
> A standard air conditioner will provide you with ventilation. Most have a
> lever that controls a small door to the outside.
It depends on the air conditioner. I have a GE that will draw all air from
the outside, cool it and then blow it into the room if the lever is set to
'fresh air'. I also have a Sharp where I think the lever is just there to
amuse you - it seems to do nothing at all.
Lightproof these things are not - they use white styrofoam for air
passages and separating the inside from the outside.
Had an old 1950's Emerson that was light tight. And noisy.
And inefficient. And it dripped water. And weighed a ton, it
took two people to wrestle it in and out of the window.
I have seen 'portable' air conditioners that use a hose that sticks
out the window - like a dryer hose - via an adapter panel. I thought
one of these with a blacked-out hose would make an ideal darkroom
airconditioner but Consumer Reports rated them badly. Anybody have
experience with these things.
I have converted a 2nd floor bedroom into a darkroom. In order to
preserve a normal look to the house I have lowered and closed venetian
blinds in the windows - they are white so the reflect some of the sunlight.
The inside of the window has a wooden frame pressed around it and a
masonite panel - chipboard would work just as well if the frames are
going to stay in place.
And...
Glad to see you back, Lloyd.
--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
http://www.darkroomautomation.com/da-main.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com
K W Hart
"Nicholas O. Lindan" <s...@sig.com> wrote in message
news:Kamdna1Iioz8dQPX...@earthlink.com...
Straying away from darkrooms into air conditioners, Mitsubishi makes a two
part system: the air handler mounts inside the room, usually near the
ceiling and the compressor goes outside, like a normal whole house air
conditioner system. The systems are available in different sizes and the
compressors can handle one, two, or three air handlers. Of course with such
a unit, there is no option for outside air.
Howard Lester
> Straying away from darkrooms into air conditioners, Mitsubishi makes a two
> part system: the air handler mounts inside the room, usually near the
> ceiling and the compressor goes outside, like a normal whole house air
> conditioner system. The systems are available in different sizes and the
> compressors can handle one, two, or three air handlers. Of course with
> such a unit, there is no option for outside air.
In case anyone's interested, the Mitsubishi units are called "Mr. Slim."
ll...@the-wire.com
O. Lindan" <s...@sig.com> wrote:
>I have seen 'portable' air conditioners that use a hose that sticks
>out the window - like a dryer hose - via an adapter panel. I thought
>one of these with a blacked-out hose would make an ideal darkroom
>airconditioner but Consumer Reports rated them badly. Anybody have
>experience with these things.
September 4, 2009, from Lloyd Erlick,
Those things are on sale around here. It's
been an unususally cool summer, and I suppose
a lot of stock did not find buyers.
They're still overpriced. They occupy floor
real estate, too, but sometimes that's what
the window demands, I guess.
Ll...@the-wire.com
O. Lindan" <s...@sig.com> wrote:
>Glad to see you back, Lloyd.
>
>--
>Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
September 4, 2009, from Lloyd Erlick,
Thank you very much. It's been a hell of a
ride. We've had lots of ups and downs - and
tonight is Natalie's eightieth birthday. The
Good News for Geezers is that
post-open-heart-surgery sex is possible ....
Thor Lancelot Simon
<Lloyd at @the-wire. dot com> wrote:
>O. Lindan" <s...@sig.com> wrote:
>
>>I have seen 'portable' air conditioners that use a hose that sticks
>>out the window - like a dryer hose - via an adapter panel. I thought
>>one of these with a blacked-out hose would make an ideal darkroom
>>airconditioner but Consumer Reports rated them badly. Anybody have
>>experience with these things.
>
>September 4, 2009, from Lloyd Erlick,
>
>Those things are on sale around here. It's
>been an unususally cool summer, and I suppose
>a lot of stock did not find buyers.
There is a problem with the single-hose models, which should be
pretty obvious if you think about how they work: they have an air
_exhaust__ but no intake, right? So where does the air they use to
cool the hot side of the freon coil come from?
The answer is, "inside your room". So they cause continual negative
air pressure in your room, and without it, they don't work. And what
_this_ means is that if your structure is really well sealed, they
cannot work at all, while if it's not, they pull in at least as much
hot air as they produce cold air!
It is a terrible loophole in the efficiency rating system for air
conditioners which permits these to exist at all. If they were rated
fairly, they would all fail the minimum-efficiency test and be banned
from the market.
The dual-hose models, on the other hand, work fine, if you can find
one that's not cheap junk from the lowest-bidding Chinese factory.
The dual-hose type, of course, uses _outside_ air which it pulls in
using one of the hoses to cool the hot side of the coil, just like
a normal window unit would.
You can replace the hoses with aluminum dryer hose, which is light
tight, and the unit should then work well in a darkroom. It can be
hard to find a small dual-hose unit. Frigidaire makes a 9,000BTU
model which A.J. Madison and some of the other national appliance
delivery chains carry. I have one and it's worked well so far.
But it does have some bright green lights on the control panel which
you will have to tape over, and also keep in mind the inside of that
aluminum hose is reflective and could give you a light leak if the
other end is in direct sunlight -- you might well want to paint
as much of the interior of the hose black at each end as you can
reach.
Like most units the Frigidaire has some vent slots to let the unit
pull exhaust air from the inside of the room like a single-hose
unit if the intake hose is blocked. I have taped these over on
other units without any trouble (they always pull some air from
the interior of the room if you don't but in a darkroom this
might actually give you some desirable exhaust air to carry
airborne contaminants out of the room).
I would not try to run a darkroom with positive-pressure ventilation.
It sounds good in theory, but a wet darkroom makes a lot of dirty
air which you really want out before it can irritate your mucus
membranes and your lungs. If anything, balanced airflow, with
fans for both intake and exhaust air, blowing across the sink,
would be the best way to go.
Llo...@the-wiredot.com
My landlord would love me if he only knew
what I've done for him. He rented me a
kitchen sink drain that contained two plastic
straws, a plastic chopstick, and two
stainless steel dinner forks. Quite a feat to
get them all down there. So, while warming up
for the main act of putting in the darkroom,
I made the kitchen work. Next was the toilet,
which had some broken pieces of plastic
obstructing the drain. Then came the bathtub
which must have had lots of hair and soapy
gunk down there, because a sodium hydroxide
type drain clearer worked in a couple of
minutes. Whatever was in there got eaten up
and suddenly the drain drained.
So all that remained was the bathroom sink
drain. This was the one I planned for a
connection that would drain my darkroom,
which is just on the other side of the wall.
It was made of that overpriced chrome plated
brass pipe that is supposed to look good
under a sink. Unfortunately it had been
sitting there since 1977. By the time I pried
the screw connections loose I could see the
edges inside the pipe were bent and frayed.
Anyway, no cheapskate move like finding a
matching Tee fitting and getting it in there
like it matched. Nice new ABS pipe all the
way from the sink drain to the pipe
disappearing down the wall. Holes cut through
the wall and nice fresh ABS DWV pipe down
along the wall to my sinks. Hooray. Flexible
bilge hose from the sinks to the drain pipe
so the sinks can be moved if necessary.
I haven't done any plumbing in twenty five
years. I had almost forgotten the fragrance
of ABS plastic cement. And the thrill of
getting it off skin! Once upon a time I could
cut up the requisite hunks of pipe, open the
glue can, smear it all over in just the right
places, and carefully assemble the plastic
trombone without getting a spot on my hands.
But no more. My father always used to
complain that his hands became more and more
"un-nimble" as he got older. Damned if my
hands aren't un-nimble compared to days gone
by!
I also haven't soldered any copper pipe in
many years. Two short pieces of garden
variety half inch copper pipe with little
fittings on the ends. They didn't even come
up to being called a trombone. All morning
poking over them. I'm just glad I'm not going
to be getting enough practice to become
speedy. I just love those nice stainless
steel braid covered flexible hoses made for
connecting the hot and cold lines. They go
through a hole in the wall so effortlessly.
Pretty soon I'll have the pleasure of lifting
my enlarger up off the floor onto a nice dry
side I have yet to create. But I have the
right stuff for it - a stainless steel table
top forty one inches by nine feet. The most
ridiculous things come for free. I had to
scrub bakery evidence off it, but that was a
small price to pay.
So, lifting heavy objects in my near future.
And a trapeze act to darken the windows.
Meanwhile there is exposed film waiting and
waiting.
(I could have teenager assistance lifting the
enlarger - but would that be wise? Or should
I get help from my overweight geezer buddy
that I at least trust??)
David Nebenzahl
> I would not try to run a darkroom with positive-pressure ventilation.
> It sounds good in theory, but a wet darkroom makes a lot of dirty
> air which you really want out before it can irritate your mucus
> membranes and your lungs. If anything, balanced airflow, with
> fans for both intake and exhaust air, blowing across the sink,
> would be the best way to go.
I can see that as a potential problem, but wouldn't it depend on where
the air inlets and outlets were? If the air source were on one side of
you and an outlet placed on the other side of the wet area, then airflow
would carry the moisture and fumes away from you, no?
But in any case I can see that careful design is called for here.
Andrew Price
Simon) wrote:
>There is a problem with the single-hose models, which should be
>pretty obvious if you think about how they work: they have an air
>_exhaust__ but no intake, right? So where does the air they use to
>cool the hot side of the freon coil come from?
>
>The answer is, "inside your room". So they cause continual negative
>air pressure in your room, and without it, they don't work. And what
>_this_ means is that if your structure is really well sealed, they
>cannot work at all, while if it's not, they pull in at least as much
>hot air as they produce cold air!
Absolutely. It's amazing they manage to sell the things at all.
Nicholas O. Lindan
> I would not try to run a darkroom with positive-pressure ventilation.
> It sounds good in theory, but a wet darkroom makes a lot of dirty
> air which you really want out
I would think the relative pressure doesn't really matter with
regards the freshness of the air in the darkroom - all
the air that goes in has to go out in any system. The problem with
positive pressure is the possibility of fumigating the house with
fumes from the darkroom - but I have never noticed darkroom odors
in other parts of the house though the darkroom is positive pressure,
just about all the air goes out the exhaust vent.
If the fumes from the trays are a nuisance then I would arrange
a hood over the sink, possibly with a low power exhaust fan,
and make sure a majority of the air exits the room via the fume
hood.
But the room should be at positive pressure with respect to the
surroundings to keep it clean. You push clean air in and let dirty
air out. With negative pressure you suck dirty air in through the
cracks and push even dirtier air out - though you do have more
control over where the dirty air goes.
I've done a lot of work in and with electronics clean room labs and
manufacturing and it is all positive pressure. Biohazard labs
and chemistry labs on the other hand are negative pressure.
Me, I hate dust and love the smell of fixer. If your proclivities
are the other way around, well, all I can say is your darkroom sucks.
Er, should suck.
Bill
> September 1, 2009, from Lloyd Erlick,
>
> Rec.Photo.Darkroom has been pretty slow most
> of the summer. So I'm going to use it to
> celebrate my Geezerhood (turned sixty this
> summer ...) by recounting the thrilling
> installation of my darkroom in my latest new
> home.
---snip---
>
> regards,
> --le
> ________________________________
> Lloyd Erlick Portraits, Toronto.
> website: www.heylloyd.com
> telephone: 416-686-0326
> email: port...@heylloyd.com
> ________________________________
> --
It's a lot of work, but worth it. I "built a house around a darkroom" (as
my wife says) about 15 years ago. Been using it steadily since.
One of the things I did that really paid off was to clean the room (of
construction dust) and paint it (to freeze the rest of the dust). Then I
installed a floor-standing air filter, with a HEPA filter element. It's
been running ever since. My spotting needs are minimal.
Second greatest non-photo accessory was the floor mats. Costco had them.
The mats are about 1/4 inch thick, interlock at the edges. I tiled the
floor with them. They are waterproof and great for the feet.
For drying negs and prints my system is two wires strung across the room,
anchored in 2x4 studs so they are 16" apart. Before anchoring the second
end of each wire, I strung them with alternating spring-type clothes pins
and 2" lengths of tubing. NOTE: the pins were strung through holes drilled
in both handles, not through the spring. This way they hold material at
right angles to the wire. RC papers and films hang from one clip. Fiber
papers you can stretch between clips on the two wires. An 1x14 or 16x20
fit easily. If you do smaller, you might want to add a third wire. No
rack to clean, no floor space taken. Use plastic clips--my wooden ones are
starting to stick to prints.
Enjoy.
Bill