Jobo tanks and stabilizer bath
Sam Carleton
"After the end of the process put the film into the stabilizer bath in a
separate vessel"
I am doing B&W only, does this mean Photo-Flo? If so, what should I
Photo-Flo my film in?
Frank Pittel
: Looking at the docs on the Jobo 2500 series tanks, it states:
That's correct. I use ziploc contains that I got cheap from a local
grocery store.
--
Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
-------------------
f...@deepthought.com
Sam Carleton
> Sam Carleton <scar...@miltonstreet.com> wrote:
> : Looking at the docs on the Jobo 2500 series tanks, it states:
>
> : "After the end of the process put the film into the stabilizer bath in a
> : separate vessel"
>
> : I am doing B&W only, does this mean Photo-Flo? If so, what should I
> : Photo-Flo my film in?
>
> That's correct. I use ziploc contains that I got cheap from a local
> grocery store.
Ok, but what if I am running 40+ rolls a day? I am setting up a B&W only lab
and expect my volumn to get quite high. What do you suggest at that point? I
was thinking about having a 5 gallon bucket with Photo-Flo that I could drop
the 12 rolls of 35mm or 14 rolls of 120 into. My concern was scratching the
film. Any thoughts?
Sam
Frank Pittel
: Frank Pittel wrote:
Can't help you with what to do with the 40+ rolls a day. As a rank amature<SP?>
if I come home after a weeks vacation with 20+ rolls of film, I've had a busy week.
The printing would be my biggest bottle neck.
With the tanks I have I can process two rolls at a time. The containers I have will hold
two rolls of film. I split the reel and drop one half into and drop it into the photo-flo.
Those two rolls of film are out of the photo-flo before the next rolls are prosessed.
After all the film is only in the phot-flo for a minute.
What works for me may not work for you. If you in fact need to get many rolls of film
into the photo-flo at once you may want to try something along the lines of a baking
tray.
Tony Terlecki
> Frank Pittel wrote:
>
> > Sam Carleton <scar...@miltonstreet.com> wrote:
>
> > : separate vessel"
>
> > : Photo-Flo my film in?
> >
> > grocery store.
>
> film. Any thoughts?
>
Rather than a bucket try using a tray which has a larger surface area.
Use a tray that is just deep enough to cover your film. By doing this
you can empty a number of films into the same tray without them
interfering with each other.
40+ a day is not a problem. Film only needs to be in Photoflo for a
very short time since it isn't actually stabilizing the film but
simply serving to reduce surface tension on the film so water doesn't
bead and create drying marks. If you use distilled water for rinses or
some other form of filtered water then you may be able to omit the
Photoflo bath altogether.
The stabilizing bath doesn't really apply to B&W. It is needed for
colour though where it is used to prevent the colour dyes from fading
and can contain, in addition to a simple wetting agent, nasties such a
formaldehye.
Tony
Rolfe Tessem
You can only hang one roll at a time, right? So just dump one roll at a
time into the Photoflo, wait a few seconds and pull it out, hang it, and
dump another in. B&W negatives don't have to be in the Photoflo very long.
I use a 2 1/2 liter Tupperware-style container.
--
Rolfe Tessem | Lucky Duck Productions, Inc.
ro...@ldp.com | 96 Morton Street
(212) 463-0029 | New York, Ny 10014
KHOwen
>From: Sam Carleton scar...@miltonstreet.com
>Date: 5/11/02 5:09 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <3CDDB189...@miltonstreet.com>
I work for JOBO Fototechnic, so please consider my comments accordingly.
While Photo-Flo is not quite the same as stabilizer, they both contain wetting
agents, and THAT is our cause for concern. If the reel or tank should become
contaminated with wetting agent (it's a cumulative effect and won't happen from
a single or even a few dunkings) it can cause a variety of processing problems,
usually uneven development of the negative, most often in the area of sprocket
holes on 35mm film.
Wetting agents and stabilizer baths should both be calm and not agitated. Foam
is not a beneficial factor for processed film. All you really want is to
prevent the last wash from forming spots on the surface of the film. The
wetting agent helps to prevent them.
Regarding your need for 40 rolls per day, you are dealing in a volume range
that is past the convenient use of rotary processors. Yes, occasionally you
can process 40 per day or even twice that, but on a daily basis, that is
extremely labor intensive. You might want to check one of our TecnoLab dip and
dunk processors on our website. You can find them at
http://www.jobo-usa.com/products/tecnolab_gen_page.htm.
Ken -- Jobo USA
sa...@jobo-usa.com
Jobo web site: http://www.jobo-usa.com
Dr. Dagor
it's useful to separate them. You don't use the final stab chemical for
color processes in the Jobo because of contamination. You don't use
photoflow in the Jobo because of convenience and effectiveness.
The reason that the Jobo tanks say to put the stabilizer bath in a separate
vessel, is that the nasty chemicals in the stabilizer for both C-41 and E-6
contaminate the bottles, tubes, reels and tanks. So you don't want to put
that stuff in the processor.
A separate issue is that you may not want to put photoflow in the tanks
either. The reason isn't that you would contaminate the processor... The
reason is that there is usually no point and you may defeat the purpose of
the photoflow. Most people run photoflow as sort of a final dip. It
doesn't get used up, and the film is coming off the reel anyhow. So why
bother with putting it through the processor. A particular problem you
might encounter is that an automatic Jobo processor will try to keep rinsing
your film. And if it does, the concentration of the photoflow will go way
down, and you'll get water spots.
But in fact, lots of people put a final rinse bottle in the Jobo. I don't
know which processor you are using, but even if you are using an ATL with
automatic chemical pumps, photoflow isn't going to mess up the tubes or
bottles.
hope this helps.
Dr. Dagor
got contamination. Contaminating a machine like an ATL-2200 with color
stabilizer is pretty easy to do.
I think the bigger practical problem is that photoflow doesn't work very
well when used in a Jobo. If you get the film wet again after applying
photoflow, there's no point to the photoflow. Leaving the tank on the
machine after the film is processed without water invites film scratches or
dirt.
"KHOwen" <kho...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020512195017...@mb-bd.aol.com...
Bill Laut
I think this should be intended for Sam, but if I goofed up, my apologies.
Frank Pittel wrote:
> Sam Carleton <scar...@miltonstreet.com> wrote:
> : Frank Pittel wrote:
>
> : Ok, but what if I am running 40+ rolls a day? I am setting up a B&W
> : only lab
> : and expect my volumn to get quite high. What do you suggest at that
> : point? I was thinking about having a 5 gallon bucket with Photo-Flo
> : that I could drop
> : the 12 rolls of 35mm or 14 rolls of 120 into. My concern was scratching
> : the
> : film. Any thoughts?
>
I use a Jobo CPP-2 (and a *magnificent* machine, thank you very much) for
doing B&W and color. It is correct that you should NOT subject the reels
to a surfiticant(sp?) like Photo-Flo because it will cause a buildup over
time.
When procesing my obligatory gazillion rolls of vacation (or whatever)
film, I'll use a 2563 drum so that I can process six rolls at one time.
When doing color film, the wetting agent also contains Formaledehyde (which
acts as a color stabilizer). To do this, I'll take the film off of the
reel, one roll at a time, and will submerge it in a large "U" loop in about
one litre of chemical, rapidly moving the length of the roll repeatedly
through the solution for one minute to complete the Stabilization step.
But, for B&W film all that the surfictant does is break the water's surface
tension so that the film dries without any waterspots. Therefore, for B&W
film here's the technique I've used to excellent results: I fill a
two-liter graduate nearly full with water and then add perhaps 3/4-cap of
Photo-Flo 200 to it. Stir with a graduate.
To prep the film, I take the film off of the reel and attach the film clips
to either end. I pour out one litre of the working-strength Photo-Flo into
a graduate and while holding the over (and into) the two-litre graduate I
liberally pour the Photo-Flo over both sides of the film, such that it
creates a laminar flow over both sides of the film. Actually, it's a
three-pass operation: Base, then emulsion, then base a second time. With
that, the film is properly treated and then hung up to dry. No squeegeeing
whatsoever.
Hope this helps.
--
Bill Laut
PGP public key - www.i2k.com/~laut/pgp/dh_3072.asc
Fingerprint - 0A64 07B2 1F45 B823 ABD5 CD54 DEB8 3ED3 AC9E 8EB8
Other encryption and signing keys -- www.i2k.com/~laut/pgp/
KHOwen
>From: "Dr. Dagor" drd...@hotmail.com
>Date: 5/13/02 9:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <K10E8.19437$L76.1157@rwcrnsc53>
I work for JOBO Fototechnic (USA) so please consider my comments accordingly.
There have been several responses to this question about using stabilizer in
JOBO tanks. All of them which I have noticed (3) have given some erroneous
responses.
PHOTO-FLO and STABILIZER and FINAL RINSE and virtually any other wetting agent
all share the same problem and all should NOT be used IN the JOBO tank or with
film still on ANY REEL.
This is NOT a problem which is exclusive to JOBO plastic tanks and reels, and
in fact can also occur on STAINLESS STEEL reels.
In fact, we first learned of this problem from KODAK about 18 years ago, when
we first introduced stainless steel reels at JOBO USA. Representatives from
KODAK visited our booth at PMA, and told us to warn customers about the
problems associated with wetting agent buildup on the reels.
The problem is the wetting agent (not the formaldehyde) clings to reels and
tanks and does NOT wash off easily. Yes washing will REDUCE the amount
remaining and postpone the problems but it will not eliminate them.
Part of the problem is that all wetting agents need to be used in a calm tank,
because you really don't want a head of foam in the solution. The foam can
actually impede the ability of the wetting agent to prevent water spots.
Another part of the problem is that wetting agent on reels, can lead to foaming
in the developer on the next use of the reel. Foaming in the developer can
lead to foam bubbles actually showing up in the images on the film. It can
also increase the chances of sprocket hole agitation showing up on 35mm film.
Often when we see this problem, we have the customers try NEW, uncontaminated
reels, and the sprocket hole problem will go away.
THESE are the reasons that JOBO does not recommend the use of PHOTO-FLO,
STABILIZER or any other wetting agent in its tanks or with the film still on
the reels.
John Stockdale
how many rolls could I expect a problem with build-up on my reels?
Isn't there _anything_ that will clean the reels?
I was surprised to read that it is a problem even with stainless steel
reels too. I would have thought that they could be cleaned in
something really agressive.
==================================================
Sam Carleton <scar...@miltonstreet.com> wrote in message news:<3CDDB189...@miltonstreet.com>...
Thor Lancelot Simon
John Stockdale <jo....@bigpond.com> wrote:
>I use Photo-Flo (half strength) in my Jobo hand-inversion tanks. After
>how many rolls could I expect a problem with build-up on my reels?
>
>Isn't there _anything_ that will clean the reels?
Sure -- your dishwasher will almost certainly do the trick. Don't use
much detergent, though, and you may very well want to give them a second
run with *no* detergent, or a thorough soak in distilled water. You
do not want bleach residue (dishwashing detergent is basically powdered
bleach with some sodium carbonate thrown in for good measure) on your
developing reels! :-)
--
Thor Lancelot Simon t...@rek.tjls.com
But as he knew no bad language, he had called him all the names of common
objects that he could think of, and had screamed: "You lamp! You towel! You
plate!" and so on. --Sigmund Freud
KHOwen
>Date: 5/20/02 4:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <f0667f4d.0205...@posting.google.com>
>
>I use Photo-Flo (half strength) in my Jobo hand-inversion tanks. After
>how many rolls could I expect a problem with build-up on my reels?
>
>Isn't there _anything_ that will clean the reels?
>
>I was surprised to read that it is a problem even with stainless steel
>reels too. I would have thought that they could be cleaned in
>something really agressive.
There is no formula for "when" the problem will occur. Some folks get it after
only 100 runs through the tank, others go for years without any problem at all.
My first answer to you is, if you don't have a problem yet, don't worry about
it, just stop using the Photo-Flo in the tank or with your reels.
If the reels are getting sluggish to load, then you probably have a buildup of
wetting agent on the spirals. Soak the reel in a 50-50 solution of Clorox and
water for about 1 hour. Then using a small stiff brush (and plastic apron and
goggles) clean the spirals.
Rinse the reel thoroughly afterward, and then it's ready for use.