Redevelopment of faded B&W photograph, possible?
Nicholas O. Lindan
they weren't washed properly.
I am copying them and scanning them.
But, when I am done with all that - is it possible to redevelop them?
The silver is still in the photograph. What I need to do is un-fix them,
as the silver is, I believe, presently in a water soluble state.
Does anyone have any leads, thoughts. The photographs, after redevelopment,
can be scanned and copied. The original paper is of no interest, only
the images are.
--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio noli...@ix.netcom.com
Technical Management Consulting & Engineering Services:
New Product Development; Electrical Engineering;
Software, System and Circuit Design. Oh, & Photography
Richard Knoppow
The image may not be recoverable. Over time the silver has been
turned into silver sulfide and silver oxide. The sulfide migrates in
the emulsion staining the highlights.
The prints should be copied using a deep yellow filter (#11 or G) to
make copy negatives.
Kodak published the following procedure for restoring faded prints
on _developing out_ paper. Do NOT use this on toned prints on POP, it
will destroy the image.
1. Clean the print thoroughly with film cleaner or some other
non-water-based cleaner.
2. Fix the print in a plain hypo bath. Wash the print thoroughly.
(These instructions pre-date hypo clearing agent. I think a treatment
with it would be beneficial before the washing step here).
3. If the highlights are stained treat in a solution of the folowing:
Kodak Rapid Liquid Fixer with Hardener. Dilute at film strength. To
the diluted fixing bath add:
Citric Acid, 28 grams per liter.
Treat only one print at a time and watch it closely. Stop treatment as
soon as the stain has cleared. If the solution attacks the image stop
it immediately.
Wash the print thoroughly after treatment. Again, these instructions
pre-date KHCA and it is likely beneficial here.
4. Bleach and redevelop the print as follows:
A. Treat with Kodak Special Hardener SH-1. This is a Formaldehyde
hardener. Formaldehyde is toxic and a carcinogen. Its possible the
process will work without it but the bleach is very swelling and may
damage the emulsion without the extreme hardening of this solution.
Treat in the hardener for five minutes and wash the print.
B. Bleach in Kodak S-6 Stain Remover. and wash. Do NOT use KHCA after
the bleach, the sulfite will partially dissolve the halide.
C. Expose the bleached print to strong light.
D. Redevelop in Kodak Dektol 1:2 or similar low sulfite active
developer.
D.Wash thoroughly.
A plain hypo bath is:
Sodium Thiosulfate, crystaline 240.0 grams
Water 1.0 liter
If anhydrous thiosulfate is used the amount is 160 grams/liter
Crystaline thiosulfate is very endothermic so needs to mixed in hot
water (125F). Anhydrous thiosulfate should be mixed in water not over
90F.
Kodak Special Hardener SH-1
Water 500.0 ml
Formaldehyde, about 37% solution by weight 10.0 ml
Sodium Carbonate, monohydrated 6.0 grams
Water to make 1.0 liter
Note cautions above re. Formaldehyde
Kodak Stain Remover S-6
Stock Solution A
Potassium Permanganate 5.0 grams
Water to make 1.0 liter
Stock Solution B
Cold water 500.0 ml
Sodium Chloride (don't use table salt) 75.0 grams
Sulfuric Acid , concentrated 16.0 ml
Water to make 1.0 liter
(Note: Most table salt contains iodine and other impurities, the
iodine can cause staining)
For Use, Take equal parts of A and B. The solutions do not keep in
combination, mix it just before use.
Bleaching should be complete in 3 or 4 minutes at 68F.
The brown maganese dioxide stain formed by the bleach can be removed
by treating in a 1% Sodium Bi-sulfite solution. Wash prints after
bleaching.
The print should be exposed to strong light, preferably daylight,
before redeveloping.'
Re-develop in Kodak D-72 or Dektol diluted 1:2.
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, Ca.
dick...@ix.netcom.com
Robert L. Vervoordt
these be useful here, using them as is done in a B&W reversal procedure?
Robert L. Vervoordt
<rl...@mindspring.com>
Jon Judson
Is there any wonder that Richard is a genius?
Richard, I hope you're writing all this stuff down. We need a Richard
Knoppow reference manual for the next century after you've gone to that
great PhotoMat in the sky.
--
Jon
jju...@spamstuff.erols.com
You Know What To Take Out
Nicholas O. Lindan
The thought of removing stains with potassium permanganate
seems a bit strange. I used it in my youth for removing algae from fish
tanks and it stained the plants deep purple (along with the algae) - killed
damned near everything in the tank.
Kenneth R. Burns
supposed to restore old faded photos. I never used the stuff, so I don't
know anything about it. Is this stuff still available? If so, would it
work here?
--
Ken Burns
P.O. Box 2242
Hickory, NC 28603
Fine Art Black & White Photography
kenb...@twave.net
Michael Gudzinowicz
>I note the bleach is not Ferricyanide or Dichromate. Might not
>one of these be useful here, using them as is done in a B&W
>reversal procedure?
silver sulfide) to colorless products. The chloride in the bleach is
there to convert the silver sulfate which is formed to silver chloride
and to prevent migration of soluble silver salts. Then the silver
chloride generated from the silver sulfides is exposed to light and
redeveloped.
Back in September of last year, I posted a series of steps which can be
used to sort through staining and other problems affecting negatives.
The thread can be found on dejanews (Re: Rescue Old Negatives??).
Personally, I would not touch an old print though I have plenty of 19th
and early 20th century prints which could use a bit of help.
If one intends to tempt fate, make good 4x5 copy negatives, and print
them. A yellow filter will remove the effect of uneven yellow or brown
stains. If the staining is even, one can use a blue filter to increase the
contrast of a faded sepia print. Depending on degree, one may use Tech Pan
and increasing HC110 concentrations to increased contrast markedly.
Starting guidelines can be found in the EKC book, "Copying and Duplicating
in Black-and-White and Color" (publication M-1; available through
interlibrary loan).
There are some things I'd do differently. If the silver gelatin print is
WORTHLESS and has a border which is stained, I'd cut an 1/8" test strip
from it, and divide that into smaller strips. If a small fraction of an
inch of the stained image comes along with it, that's better. If the print
has any value, don't do strips and proceed at your peril.
First, I'd treat the strips with formalin hardener and wash. Water
soluble oxidation products would also be removed. If this isn't done
there's an excellent chance that the emulsion will be destroyed since old
gelatin breaks down, and can become water soluble.
The stain might be colloidal sulfur. If so, it is removed by soaking a
test strip in a 10% (w/v) sodium sulfite solution at 100-120F for a
couple of minutes. That converts sulfur to thiosulfate, which can be
removed with hypoclear and a wash. Care must be exercised, and the print
must pulled and washed immediately if the silver image is affected.
If that doesn't work, one can try the permanganate treatment. If the
strip wwas treated with sulfite, it should be washed before bleaching. If
the salt and sulfuric acid are a problem, one can use 5% hydrochloric acid
for solution B. Bisulfite can be used to remove the manganese oxide stain,
etc. (see below for the details).
Usually that treatment will also bleach a thin layer of silver stain which
might be there if spent fixer were used or if developer carried over to
the fixer.
If the highlights/clear border are stained after bleaching and
redevelopment, the strip can be treated with a reducer. The rapid fix
(below) should be used first . If that takes too long, the following
reducing procedures can be used listed in increasing distructiveness:
1. Treating the negative with a more potent fixer composed of 1 g/l
thiourea (thiocarbamide) and 1 g/l citric acid. (Don't eat the thiorea; it
is a weak liver carcinogen.)
2. Reducing the negative with a weak Farmer's reducer. Make up a solution
of 5% plain hypo, and add a small amount of a ferricyanide solution (5g/l)
to it. Wait a while, and if nothing happens, add a bit more.
And again, proceed at your own risk!!!
>On Wed, 22 Mar 2000 21:08:57 GMT, dick...@ix.netcom.com
>(Richard Knoppow) wrote:
>
>>"Nicholas O. Lindan" <noli...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>>>I have some 1913 or so photographs that have faded rather badl
>>>
>>>I am copying them and scanning them.
>>>
>>>But, when I am done with all that - is it possible to redevelo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio noli...@ix.netcom.com
>>>Technical Management Consulting & Engineering Services:
>>>New Product Development; Electrical Engineering;
>>>Software, System and Circuit Design. Oh, & Photography
>>
>> The prints should be copied using a deep yellow filter (#11 o
>> Kodak published the following procedure for restoring faded p
>>
>>1. Clean the print thoroughly with film cleaner or some other
>>non-water-based cleaner.
>>2. Fix the print in a plain hypo bath. Wash the print thoroughl
>>3. If the highlights are stained treat in a solution of the fol
>>Citric Acid, 28 grams per liter.
>>Treat only one print at a time and watch it closely. Stop treat
>> Wash the print thoroughly after treatment. Again, these instr
>>4. Bleach and redevelop the print as follows:
>>A. Treat with Kodak Special Hardener SH-1. This is a Formaldehy
>>B. Bleach in Kodak S-6 Stain Remover. and wash. Do NOT use KHCA
>>C. Expose the bleached print to strong light.
>>D. Redevelop in Kodak Dektol 1:2 or similar low sulfite active
>>developer.
>>D.Wash thoroughly.
>>
>>
>>A plain hypo bath is:
>>Sodium Thiosulfate, crystaline 240.0 grams
>>Water 1.0 liter
>>
>>If anhydrous thiosulfate is used the amount is 160 grams/liter
>> Crystaline thiosulfate is very endothermic so needs to mixed i
>>
>>Kodak Special Hardener SH-1
>>
>>Water 500.0 ml
>>Formaldehyde, about 37% solution by weight 10.0 ml
>>Sodium Carbonate, monohydrated 6.0 grams
>>Water to make 1.0 liter
>>
>>Note cautions above re. Formaldehyde
>>
>>Kodak Stain Remover S-6
>>Stock Solution A
>>Potassium Permanganate 5.0 gram
>>
>>Stock Solution B
>>Cold water 500.0 ml
>>Sodium Chloride (don't use table salt) 75.0 grams
>>Sulfuric Acid , concentrated 16.0 ml
>>Water to make 1.0 liter
>>
>>(Note: Most table salt contains iodine and other impurities, th
>>
>>For Use, Take equal parts of A and B. The solutions do not keep
>>Bleaching should be complete in 3 or 4 minutes at 68F.
>> The brown maganese dioxide stain formed by the bleach can be
>> The print should be exposed to strong light, preferably daylig
Pete Schermerhorn
>seems a bit strange.
Somewhat off-topic. In my errant you, I used to do the permanganate & glycerin
thing, and watch the combination spontaneous burst into flame. A different
sort of youth, perhaps. Some of the things I did with "better living through
chemistry" in my youth, would probably cause me a lot of trouble in today's
world.
Pete Schermerhorn, in the glorious Berkshire hills of western Massachusetts
Remove nojunk.
Nicholas O. Lindan
>
> I have some 1913 or so photographs that have faded rather badly
Maybe I should explain further: the photographs have _faded_, not stained.
The photos appear sepia toned. The highlights have all but disappeared
and the midtones are going. The net effect is a very high contrast print.
Since a lot of the talk is about _staining_, I want to make sure that the
chemical solutions proposed are ones that will redevelop the silver image
that has faded, but that is, hopefully, still there. I am not interested
in removing _stains_.
Richard Knoppow
There are two possibilities.
One, the silver has become converted to a colorless compound.
Two, these are on printing out paper. There is a variation of the
process for developing out paper given by Kodak for POP which has
faded.
Two sources of information which I should have mentioned in my
original post are books by James M. Reilly of the Image Permanence
Institute and publlished by Kodak/Silver Pixel Press, a division of
the Saunders group.
__Care and Identification of 19th-Century Prints_ James M. Reilly,
(1986) Kodak Publication G-2S, Catalogue 160 7787 ISBN 0-87985-364-4
_Conservation of Photographs_ (1985) Kodak Publication F-40,
Catalogue 193 5725, ISBN 0-87985-352-2
I reiterate Micheal's advise to copy anything of any value before
doing anything to them.
Michael Gudzinowicz
>"I" wrote:
>>
>> I have some 1913 or so photographs that have faded rather badl
>
>not stained. The photos appear sepia toned. The highlights
>have all but disappeared and the midtones are going. The net
>effect is a very high contrast print.
>
>Since a lot of the talk is about _staining_, I want to make
>sure that the chemical solutions proposed are ones that will
>redevelop the silver image that has faded, but that is,
>hopefully, still there. I am not interested in removing
>_stains_.
Make good copy negatives with a blue filter. If possible use one of the
4x5 films in HC110B which I had mentioned in order to expand highlight
contrast.
If there aren't any visible stains, harden and wash the prints,
use the permangante bleach process, rinse, clear with bisulfite for no
longer than 1 minute, rinse, expose and redevelop. If you are lucky, a
faint image may come up during bleaching which can be developed out.
The prints may not be tones, but could be a fine grain warm image which
would be very susceptable to oxidative deterioration. Make sure that these
are gelatin prints.
The probablity of ruining the print is usually much greater than success.
Manfred Buchheit
conservator will advise you to copy, copy, copy before attempting any
restoration. Your faded sepia-toned photos should be copied as advised by
Richard and Michael, and contemporary prints made from the negs for your
scanning purposes: that's your best bet. They sound very similar to many I've
copied , and their deterioration is typical of the period. Try Kodak Tech Pan
in the format most suitable for you and play with the filtration and
development dilutions ( Hc110). You'll be surprised at how well it works.
Michael wrote this bit; -it's excellent advice:
> If one intends to tempt fate, make good 4x5 copy negatives, and print
> them. A yellow filter will remove the effect of uneven yellow or brown
> stains. If the staining is even, one can use a blue filter to increase the
> contrast of a faded sepia print. Depending on degree, one may use Tech Pan
> and increasing HC110 concentrations to increased contrast markedly.
> Starting guidelines can be found in the EKC book, "Copying and Duplicating
> in Black-and-White and Color" (publication M-1; available through
> interlibrary loan).
>
"Nicholas O. Lindan" wrote:
> "I" wrote:
> >
> > I have some 1913 or so photographs that have faded rather badly
>
> Maybe I should explain further: the photographs have _faded_, not stained.
> The photos appear sepia toned. The highlights have all but disappeared
> and the midtones are going. The net effect is a very high contrast print.
>
> Since a lot of the talk is about _staining_, I want to make sure that the
> chemical solutions proposed are ones that will redevelop the silver image
> that has faded, but that is, hopefully, still there. I am not interested
> in removing _stains_.
>
------------------------------------------------------------
MANFRED BUCHHEIT
Visual Artist & Fine Art Photographer
Box 237 , Holyrood NF A0A 2R0 Canada
Tel: 709-229-4523 fax: same, but call first
email: man...@nfld.com
------------------------------------------------------------
Library
covered...
this sounds very much like proofs made on POP (print out paper).
the appearance as if sepia toned, the highlights and midtones
disappearing and the high contrast print. i'm not exactly sure of the
next step that you should take without actually seeing these photos, but
keep them away from any source of UV. i can't stress that enough if
you're not familiar with POP.
question: when you say the highlights and midtones are disappearing, i
understand that to be that they are becoming murky and
muddy/darker/dirty? the range of lighter greys has decreased?
If they are printed on POP, then a wash in water, followed by a gold or
platinum toner will permanently fix the prints. With POP you don't want
to develop or redevelop the image, you'll just want to remove the excess
silver halides and tone the print to convert the silver.
If it is what i suspect, then the images is still there, but because the
surrounding areas have started to darken i don't think you'll be able to
retrieve that detail. and you've probably also lost some detail in the
shadow areas as well. at a conservation level, what you see is roughly
what you're going to preserve.
as stated by Manfred: "copy, copy, copy...." is pretty good advice. but
be aware of using a light source that outputs UV.