Color analyser
Robert L. Blum
a new Jobo 7000. Does anyone have any personal experience with this specific
device. I borrowed a Colorstar 5100 and did not like using it. You need the
manual and a flashlight to work it; it is not intuitive. I spoke with Ken
Owen at Jobo and he (of course) is very enthusiastic about the upgraded
7000. Before spending $1000+ , I thought I would solicit some less biased
views. (I am aware that no analyser works for Ilfochrome and will continue
to print that material "by eye.")
Bob Blum
Manny Bhuta
Jobo's Colorline series of color analyzers to be excellent. I own both of
these and used to own a Beseler PM2L(?). I would not recommend the Beseler
unit. I have not used the Colorline 7000 but use the Colorline 5100
regularly. On paper, the 7000 models appears to be very similar to the 5100
except for the controls. If you found the Colorline 5100 (I assume that you
meant Colorline 5100 and not Colorstar 5100) not intuitive, you will not
like the Lici's Colorstar 3000. One of the feature of the Jobo's Colorline
series is the step by step instructions displayed on the LCD screen. With
the Colorstar 3000 you need to remember proper combination of buttons to
push. IMHO either Colorstar 3000 and the Colorline 7000 would be an
excellent choice. I would choose the Colorline 7000 because it can
compensate for reciprocity failure for each of the three primary colors
independently. The Lici Colorstar 3000 compensates only for the overall
exposure. I suggest that after one night's experience, you will not have to
use the manual and assuming that the brightness of the display is
adjustable. It can be made bright enough to fog your paper.
--
Manny Bhuta
Randolph, NJ USA
"Robert L. Blum" <rbs...@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:OuS66.16008$y9.56...@typhoon.we.rr.com...
Robert L. Blum
I appreciate the comments but I am still waiting for a response from
someone who owns and uses a Jobo Colorline 7000. I was interested in Manny
Bhuta's comments regarding the Colorline's ability to compensate for
reciprocity failure for each of the primary colors independently.
Bob Blum
Gregory Blank <"g;-)blank"@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:g;-)blank-10010...@client-151-196-123-144.bellatlantic.net...
> Why not buy the Colorstar 3000 which is better than the 2000 but cheaper
> in cost to the
> Jobo an other model Colorstar? My 3000 has 100 channels....great piece of
> equipt.
>
> In article <OuS66.16008$y9.56...@typhoon.we.rr.com>, "Robert L. Blum"
> --
> Gregory W.Blank Photography
> P.O. Box 726
> Finksburg, MD. 21048
> Check out my website http://members.bellatlantic.net/~gblank
Ray Ford
As the Car Talk guys on NPR would say, "Brought to you by the
Shameless Commerce Division...."
Good shooting, Bert.
Rpf
In article <93khn4$4fu$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
bertm...@my-deja.com wrote:
> In article <OuS66.16008$y9.56...@typhoon.we.rr.com>,
> "Robert L. Blum" <rbs...@socal.rr.com> wrote:
> (I am aware that no analyser works for Ilfochrome and will
> continue
> > to print that material "by eye.")
> >
> > Bob Blum
> >
> >
>
> Dear Bob:
>
> The truth is that any of the Color Line analyzers (5000, 5100, 7000)
> and the Colorstar 3000 do work extremely well for Ilfochrome WHEN USED
> WITH THE MILLER METHOD III (C) COMPUTER PROGRAM. You really ought to
> try it.
> --
>
> Bert Miller
> bertm...@laguna.com.mx
> The New Miller Method III (C)
> sensitometry-based, computer-controlled color printing
> now Tailored to the Colorstar and Color Line analyzers.
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
>
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
bertm...@my-deja.com
continue
> to print that material "by eye.")
>
> Bob Blum
>
>
Rolfe Tessem
>
> I appreciate the comments but I am still waiting for a response from
> someone who owns and uses a Jobo Colorline 7000. I was interested in Manny
> Bhuta's comments regarding the Colorline's ability to compensate for
> reciprocity failure for each of the primary colors independently.
I have a Jobo Colorline 5100 which, as I understand it, is very similar
to the 7000. I believe the interface on the 7000 has been improved, but
that the feature set is largely the same.
I use it primarily for RA4 printing and, after programming the various
channels appropriately, find that I can take a flesh tone or a gray
reading and a Dmax reading and nail the first print about 90% of the
time. If I have included a gray card in the scene and can also get a
Dmax spot reading, I can approach 100% success on the first print. I try
to use only one or two color negative films (NPS and NPH) and one type
of paper (Fuji Crystal Archive) so as to keep the number of variables
down.
I know that I'm not using all the bells and whistles that this analyzer
has to offer, but even so, I'm getting good repeatable results. I've
only been printing color myself for about a year and have found that it
definitely takes some work and a lot of practice to get good at it.
Owning an analyzer will help, but does not turn it into a completely
automatic process.
--
Rolfe Tessem | Lucky Duck Productions, Inc.
ro...@ldp.com | 96 Morton Street
(212) 463-0029 | New York, NY 10014
filmr...@my-deja.com
reciprocity failure correcting the yellow and magenta channels for
both color print and more importantly direct positive. This analyzer
has all the bells and wistles but has a couple of small programing
problems that are easily worked around. When using the master channel
auto calibrate it will not automatically apply the changes in color to
the master channel though it does to the density perameter. You must
record the results and then apply tham manually. When setting the
filtration you want for your multi grade printing the Grade 5 channel
will not go back above 100 once you go below it but this is not a big
deal because with this grade you just dial in full magenta anyway. I
have a colorstar 3000 and a colorline 7000 and love them both dearly
but I have never tried the 5000 but the 7000 has more buttons so I
assume it is ergonmically better not requiring you to go through as
many menus.
Greg Miller
Film Rescue International
Sandor A. Feher
analyzers.
I have three, a Philips analog, the Colorstar 3000, and the Durst Labometer.
They all good but my inexpensive Philips is the best.
The Durst Labometer also great, much better the Colorstar. It is already
preprogrammed for all the popular films and paper types. You only need to
establish the correction factor for your enlarger and you can add this into
the channels or added mentally after you adjust the colors plus/minus.
The question not what is the "perfect" print according some curves and
academic data. Are producing a well balanced, pleasing print or not, what
do you like lighter shade or darker shade, or cold tone vs. warm tone.
Consistency that needed to be maintained is one of the most important factor
and for that you should set back and see how you can attain those variables
that make up the result. Memory channels have nothing to do with it and
reciprocity play also minimal role less you will use long exposure time.
Robert L. Blum wrote in message ...
bertm...@my-deja.com
I really am put out by someone who takes a query and then loads an
answer with his/her own egregious idiosyncrasies. Mr. Blum said that he
was quite happy with his Colorstar 2000 until it was zapped (voltage
spike?). Now he looking for the best and more recent
generic replacement. Why do you come along to insert your own ideas
about other ways of doing what he does well enough by himself?
--
Bert Miller
bertm...@laguna.com.mx
The New Miller Method III (C)
sensitometry-based, computer-controlled color printing
now Tailored to the Colorstar and Color Line analyzers.
Robert L. Blum
(don't know the cause). As an occasional color negative printer (I mostly
print B &W and Ilfochrome ladscapes; and as a busy cardiologist, my darkroom
is set up such that I can go in for 1-2 hours 2 or 3 times a week and print.
Since color negative printing can't be done QUICKLY by eye, I had come to
rely on the analyser for acceptable results.
I agree with you that too many folks on this newsgroup use a question such
as the one posted by me to vent their personal biases and agendas without
ever fully answering the original question.
Bob Blum
<bertm...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:93pkn0$eaj$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
Paul and Paula Butzi
>I really am put out by someone who takes a query and then loads an
>answer with his/her own egregious idiosyncrasies. Mr. Blum said that he
>was quite happy with his Colorstar 2000 until it was zapped (voltage
>spike?). Now he looking for the best and more recent
>generic replacement. Why do you come along to insert your own ideas
>about other ways of doing what he does well enough by himself?
and in another post in the same thread, he wrote:
>The truth is that any of the Color Line analyzers (5000, 5100, 7000)
>and the Colorstar 3000 do work extremely well for Ilfochrome WHEN USED
>WITH THE MILLER METHOD III (C) COMPUTER PROGRAM. You really ought to
>try it.
Bert, I think you should perhaps worry about your own behavior before
you go correcting others.
-Paul
--
Newly updated and moved web site at:
http://www.butzi.net
filmr...@my-deja.com
died.
> (don't know the cause). As an occasional color negative printer (I
mostly
> print B &W and Ilfochrome ladscapes; and as a busy cardiologist, my
darkroom
> is set up such that I can go in for 1-2 hours 2 or 3 times a week and
print.
> Since color negative printing can't be done QUICKLY by eye, I had
come to
> rely on the analyser for acceptable results.
> I agree with you that too many folks on this newsgroup use a question
such
> as the one posted by me to vent their personal biases and agendas
without
> ever fully answering the original question.
>
> Bob Blum
question quite clearly on your second posting under the same title.
Greg Miller
Film Rescue International
Sandor A. Feher
I followed the Bertram Miller method and started out color printing
somewhere in the 70's by reading his articles in the Darkroom Magazine. If
I would follow his recommendation by now I could have a Ph.D. in
sensitometry and keep wasting more paper.
After many years of experience I realized that his approach well too
complicated and I wasted more paper then ever before. Now after a long
learning curve I have developed a simplified practical application that
works and within about three or four trials you have the photo and the
color balance that will yield consistent results.
Paul and Paula Butzi wrote in message ...
bertm...@my-deja.com
Sandor,
Your ought to abandon the "rapid reading" you learned in the 70's and
pay careful attention to what you do read.
The comment was directed to Bob Blum with regard to his complaint about
the color analyzers not helping him to print reversal -- Ilfochrome.
If you and Paul Butzi care to take this argument to the field, I suggest
stallion war horses and 6 foot broadswords. Please send your seconds to
arrange the affair.
Sandor A. Feher
the reason is that the magazines directed towards advertising to sell and
sell more. The other reason is that the writers are always the same and not
providing new information but rather beating and "old cat to death".
As far Cibachrome printing, I have also simplified the printing process in
the years. I took courses with the old masters, Henry Schull and with Peter
Krause. Then I have also attended seminars with some great photographers
who have produced magnificent images on Ciba papers, like Michael Fatali and
Loui DeSario.
In short what I am saying, if you want to be some place and could get there
by flying, you don't need to be a pilot, and this holds on creating photos
in our own dark room, you don't have to have knowledge in sensitometry,
chemistry, optics and all the related subject, we can enjoy photography and
its multitude of rewards through our own personal expression.
bertm...@my-deja.com wrote in message <93sdhq$dtl$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
PHOTO-TECH
<san...@methow.com> wrote:
>One of
>the reason is that the magazines directed towards advertising to sell and
>sell more.
"Tends" ? They bend over backwards ! How dare they state
something negative about the products they review !
Products I've reviewed and purchased only to find that the
articles were mostly hot air are ;
Mamiya 645 Pro - I'll just say that it has a new home courtesy
of Mamiya. And I have a RB-67.
70-210/2.8 Sigma - he absolute worst lens I've ever owned. And
hopefully the worst customer service I will ever have to deal with.
Nova Quad - Overrated. Have yet to read a good sold article on
it that truly reflects a users views.
Regards,
John S. Douglas
Photographer Web Master
http://www.photographers-darkroom.com
===============================
FOR7
> "Tends" ? They bend over backwards ! How dare they state
>something negative about the products they review !
British mags will openly criticize products compared to say Popular Photography
in America. They are apologetic about making even a slight criticism. I'll take
the British Practical Photography over Americas Popular Photography any day.
E.T.
fo...@aol.com