Dektol formula?
Larry
advance
Larry Kriese
jch
> Does anyone have a formula for Kodak Dektol. thanks once again in
> advance
Larry,
From Photo-Lab Index 1977 issue, Page 429, Kodak D72 (approximately the
some as Dektol) stock solution:
Water 500 ml
Metol 3 g
Sodium sulphite (desic) 45 g
Hydroquinone 12 g
Sodium carbonate (mono hydr) 80 g
Potassium bromide 2 g
Water to make 1 liter
For paper development, dilute 1:1. Develop for 1 min at 20C. I
standardised my time to 2 minutes at 20C when using RC style paper.
Others may have additional info regarding this developer.
/ John
--
Regards / JCH
Richard Knoppow
"Larry" <l_kr...@canoemail.com> wrote in message
news:826dfb2f-9694-41db...@v1g2000pra.googlegroups.com...
Dektol probably contains some ingredients not in the
published formula such as sequestering agents to prevent
trouble from dissolved salts in the water and whatever Kodak
does to allow the combination of all the ingredients in a
single powder. However, D-72 should have the same
performance.
Kodak D-72 Stock Solution
Water (at about 125F or 52C) 500.0 ml
Metol 3.1 grams
Sodium sulfite, dessicated 45.0 grams
Hydroquinone 12.0 grams
Sodium carbonate, dessicated 67.5 grams
Potassium bromide 1.9 grams
Water to make 1.0 liter
Dissolve all chemicals in the order given.
For use with most modern papers dilute one part stock with 2
parts water.
Nearly every manuacturer of printing paper had some
version of this formula.
Source: Kodak Reference Handbook, 2nd edition.
--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dick...@ix.netcom.com
jch
> Does anyone have a formula for Kodak Dektol. thanks once again in
> advance
Larry,
Tiny correction. First amount of water should be hot at 50C. Order of
chemicals to dissolve is important.
From Photo-Lab Index 1977 issue, Page 429, Kodak D72 (approximately the
same as Dektol) stock solution:
Water at 50C 500 ml
Metol 3 g
Sodium sulphite (desic) 45 g
Hydroquinone 12 g
Sodium carbonate (mono hydr) 80 g
Potassium bromide 2 g
Water to make 1 liter
Dissolve chemicals in order given.
For paper development, dilute 1:1 or 1:2. Develop for 1 min at 20C. I
Richard Knoppow
"jch" <j...@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:FCook.76142$nD.47322@pd7urf1no...
Note the difference in the amount of carbonate in this
formula vs the one I posted. That is due to the hydration
specified. Older Kodak formulas usually specified anhydrous
(same as dessicated) carbonate while some later ones and
most Agfa formulae specify monohydrated. The amount of
monohydrated carbonate must be larger. Some very old British
formulae specify crystalline carbonate but I've never seen a
US or German formula that did so. Crystalline carbonate is
not very stable being deliquescent. Monohydrated is the most
stable form but anhydrous, if kept in a closed bottle, is
about as stable.
The amount of bromide specified is about the minimum to
control fog without reducing paper speed. However,
considerably more bromide, up to perhaps 12 grams per liter,
can be added to get a somewhat warmer tone or to control fog
on old paper.
In the long ago Kodak indicated dilutions of anywhere
from stock to 1:4 for various materials but more current
instructions are to use 1:2 for nearly all paper. 1:1 will
develop a bit faster and has greater capacity. RC papers
with incorporated developer will usually develop fully in
one minute but both RC paper without incorporated developer
and fiber base papers want 2 to 3 minutes. Exposure should
be based on a development time of about 2 minutes for these
papers.
Dektol/D-72 also works for film where either somewhat
high contast or very fast development is wanted but the
trade off is that its grainy. It was common in old time
newspaper offices to use the same developer for both film
and prints, typically D-72 at 1:2. There are much better
film developers but those who want grain as a special effect
should try it. Development of modern films will be very
fast.
There are many variations on D-72 but, for the most
part, they have little practical difference.
Geoffrey S. Mendelson
>It was common in old time
> newspaper offices to use the same developer for both film
> and prints, typically D-72 at 1:2. There are much better
> film developers but those who want grain as a special effect
> should try it. Development of modern films will be very
> fast.
Didn't Kodak sell a Tri-Chem Pack, which was Dektol, stop bath and
fixer powders?
I have not used one in about 40 years, but I seem to vagely remember there
being different dilution for film. I may be wrong and can't find anything
by searching for it except people selling old ones and unanswered
questions.
Kodak's web page was no help. Searching for "tri chem pack" found nothing
and I was offered a suggestion to search for "try chem pack" and "tri-chem
pack" gave me nothing and a suggestion for "gedrukt pack". Don't they
have a historical list of products anywhere on their web site?
Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel g...@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
Jean-David Beyer
> In the long ago Kodak indicated dilutions of anywhere
> from stock to 1:4 for various materials but more current
> instructions are to use 1:2 for nearly all paper. 1:1 will
> develop a bit faster and has greater capacity. RC papers
> with incorporated developer will usually develop fully in
> one minute but both RC paper without incorporated developer
> and fiber base papers want 2 to 3 minutes. Exposure should
> be based on a development time of about 2 minutes for these
> papers.
The use of more concentrated dilutions of D72 and Dektol can be understood
if you refer to Dr. Henry's tests of dilutions. He found that if you diluted
more than 1+2, the Dmax was reduced (although the lower densities were less
affected). At a dilution of 1+15 he lost an entire stop of density. This is
shown on page 92 of the second edition of his book, "Controls in Black and
White Photography." It is my guess that in the old days, photographic paper
did not reach these densities (2.4) so the fall off was less noticeable.
--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
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Ken Hart1
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <g...@mendelson.com> wrote in message
news:slrnga4qi...@cable.mendelson.com...
but I used them in the late 1960's-early '70's. The foil package had enough
chems for one roll of film or several prints. They were also sold in
"beginner's" kits, usually a film tank, three trays, a contact print frame,
a red light bulb, twenty five sheets of 4x5 paper and a tri-chem pack.
Thinking about how little B&W processing I do these days, if they were still
available, I'd probabl buy them!
I've processed film in Dektol, usually for newspaper work years ago. As I
recall, my time was about 1/3 that of D-76 (1:1) with a 1:2 dilution. It
worked well because the grain wasn't an issue and the newspaper wanted high
contrast.
Richard Knoppow
"Ken Hart1" <kwh...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3PDok.787$_H1.627@trnddc05...
them in the late 1940's or early 1950's. There was a
predecessor but I don't remember what it was called. I think
the earlier version may have used D-72 as the universal
developer. I will have to do some research on this.
Richard Knoppow
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <g...@mendelson.com> wrote in message
news:slrnga4qi...@cable.mendelson.com...
The developer in the Tri-Chem-Pack was something Kodak
called Versatol. It was not quite Dektol but something a bit
milder that was suitable for both film and paper. I don't
think there was a formula for anything quite like it. I
think I used a Tri-Chem-Pack for the very first film I
developed. My dad bought a Kodak darkroom in a box which had
some Tri-Chem-Packs, a small package of Velox, three small
trays, a ruby lamp, a couple of film clips and some other
stuff. I can see the film coming up in my mind to this day.
Kodak has a list of cameras and, at one time, a list of
discontined roll film sizes, but I don't remember seeing a
list of products. In any case, the company appears to have
lost any sense of its own history at this point and has
scattered whatever documents it had to various oranizations,
mostly GEH and RIT.
Michael
This is, I trust, a largely intellectual exercise. Last I checked
Dektol was neither hard to find nor expensive. And it comes neatly
packaged.
--
Michael
Nicholas O. Lindan
> I think the earlier version may have used D-72 as the universal developer.
> I will have to do some research on this.
The Kodak ABC Photo Lab came with 'Universal MQ Developer'.
The earlier ones came with the developer in tablets, they
were packaged in a tube like cough lozenges. Later ones
came with the developer in a foil package stapled inside a
cardboard cover, like an oversize pack of matches. The fixer
was in a can, though I have vague memories of a small paper
pack of fix.
I used Tri-Chem packs c. 1960. For some reason it has stuck
in my head the developer was Dektol and labeled as such.
"Versatol" was, I believe, a liquid.
--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
http://www.darkroomautomation.com/index2.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com
Richard Knoppow
"Nicholas O. Lindan" <s...@sig.com> wrote in message
news:9JadnXyT0YzODz7V...@earthlink.com...
used was in the small foil packets packed in a cardboard
wrapper like paper matches. I don't go back quite far enough
for the tablet developers but they appear to have been
popular in the 1930s and 1940s, perhaps even earlier.
Tabloid was one brand name.
David Nebenzahl
> On 2008-08-12 17:23:09 -0400, Larry <l_kr...@canoemail.com> said:
>
>> Does anyone have a formula for Kodak Dektol. thanks once again in
>> advance
>
> This is, I trust, a largely intellectual exercise. Last I checked
> Dektol was neither hard to find nor expensive. And it comes neatly
> packaged.
Yes; I've always wondered why people are after such information as this.
I can see wanting formulas for pyro developers and other exotic stuff,
but Dektol? Just go out and buy it. Do people actually mix their own?
--
"Wikipedia ... it reminds me ... of dogs barking idiotically through
endless nights. It is so bad that a sort of grandeur creeps into it.
It drags itself out of the dark abyss of pish, and crawls insanely up
the topmost pinnacle of posh. It is rumble and bumble. It is flap and
doodle. It is balder and dash."
- With apologies to H. L. Mencken
Ken Hart1
"Richard Knoppow" <dick...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:W42dnfb3SozdPD7V...@earthlink.com...
snip
> I think you are right about the Versatol. The stuff I used was in the
> small foil packets packed in a cardboard wrapper like paper matches. I
> don't go back quite far enough for the tablet developers but they appear
> to have been popular in the 1930s and 1940s, perhaps even earlier. Tabloid
> was one brand name.
>
>
I have a Kodak Autographic with instruction book. In the back of the book
are various darkroom items, among them a picture of the tablet type
developer. It looks sort of like a roll of LifeSavers.
Geoffrey S. Mendelson
> This is, I trust, a largely intellectual exercise. Last I checked
> Dektol was neither hard to find nor expensive. And it comes neatly
> packaged.
Maybe for you. Outside of the U.S., and maybe Canada, it is not easy to find.
Besides the fact that black and white developing products and film have all
but disapeared from stores (a sad comment, not the start of a debate),
on this side of the world Kodak products were never popular.
They were available, and Kodak color film and digital cameras are common,
but there was a lot more Ilford, Agfa and Tetnal than Kodak.
You can't mail order it. Since 9/11 it can't be shipped air mail, and
international surface mail has all but disapeared.
The only way I could get my hands on anything less than a container load
would be to convince someone moving here to stuff a few cans in their
container of household goods. Now that the boat portion of international
shipping has almost doubled in price, that's almost impossible.
I am lucky in a way because there is an art school here that considers itself
"world class", and insists that their students learn film photgraphy. This
supports a single camera store's ability to stock things like 120 film,
Holga's (at $75 each for the one without flash), and a few bottles
of liquid developing chemicals.
The day they drop film photography completely, there will be no supplies
sold in the entire country. :-(
Jean-David Beyer
> On 8/13/2008 4:16 PM Michael spake thus:
>
>> On 2008-08-12 17:23:09 -0400, Larry <l_kr...@canoemail.com> said:
>>
>>> Does anyone have a formula for Kodak Dektol. thanks once again in
>>> advance
>> This is, I trust, a largely intellectual exercise. Last I checked
>> Dektol was neither hard to find nor expensive. And it comes neatly
>> packaged.
>
> Yes; I've always wondered why people are after such information as this.
> I can see wanting formulas for pyro developers and other exotic stuff,
> but Dektol? Just go out and buy it. Do people actually mix their own?
>
>
places, I would wonder if you could get all the components. Sulphite might
be OK, as might the carbonate. But the paramethylaminosulphate and the
hydroquinone?
--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
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/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey http://counter.li.org
^^-^^ 05:55:01 up 7 days, 12:01, 4 users, load average: 4.08, 4.34, 4.27
Geoffrey S. Mendelson
> Possibly if they live in places where you cannot buy Dektol. But in such
> places, I would wonder if you could get all the components. Sulphite might
> be OK, as might the carbonate. But the paramethylaminosulphate and the
> hydroquinone?
Sulphite can be bought at a pool supply. From my experience, several
people have heard of one near here, but no one actually knows where it
is, what it is called, and how it is listed (if it is listed at all)
in the phone book.
Carbonate is not available here as washing soda, but someone who makes
soap gave me the name of a company that sells sodium hydroxide and may
sell carbonate too.
Paramethylaminosulphate and hydroquinone, would have to be imported in
someone's luggage, but you might be able to get it if it can be sent
via airmail and the customs people don't get upset. My guess is that
by the time you paid for postage, taxes, customs clearing, etc, it
would cost over $100 for the equivalent of 1 liter of developer.
As an aside, I once tried to make "tylenol" developer, and gave up because
of the price. Although the world's largest manufacturer of generic drugs
is located here, the price of them over the counter is too high to make it
worth it. Due to socialized medicine, I can get a bottle of 50 with a
prescription for about $3-$4, but enough to make developer out of
would be too expensive. There is no equivalent of Sam's Club or Costco
selling bottles of 500. :-(
Someday when I have time to spend, I may experiment with a coffee developer.
The ingredients are easy to find and if I give up, I can drink the
unused main ingredient.
David Nebenzahl
> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>> On 8/13/2008 4:16 PM Michael spake thus:
>>
>>> On 2008-08-12 17:23:09 -0400, Larry <l_kr...@canoemail.com> said:
>>>
>>>> Does anyone have a formula for Kodak Dektol. thanks once again in
>>>> advance
>>>
>>> This is, I trust, a largely intellectual exercise. Last I checked
>>> Dektol was neither hard to find nor expensive. And it comes neatly
>>> packaged.
>>
>> Yes; I've always wondered why people are after such information as this.
>> I can see wanting formulas for pyro developers and other exotic stuff,
>> but Dektol? Just go out and buy it. Do people actually mix their own?
>>
> Possibly if they live in places where you cannot buy Dektol. But in such
> places, I would wonder if you could get all the components. Sulphite might
> be OK, as might the carbonate. But the paramethylaminosulphate and the
> hydroquinone?
So where in the world besides Israel can one *not* readily obtain Dektol
(or Ilford's equivalent)? Geoff Mendelson's travails notwithstanding,
I'm pretty sure it's easily available in most places in the U.S., in
Yurp, and in the rest of the UK.
David Starr
wrote:
>On 8/13/2008 4:16 PM Michael spake thus:
>
>> On 2008-08-12 17:23:09 -0400, Larry <l_kr...@canoemail.com> said:
>>
>>> Does anyone have a formula for Kodak Dektol. thanks once again in
>>> advance
>>
>> This is, I trust, a largely intellectual exercise. Last I checked
>> Dektol was neither hard to find nor expensive. And it comes neatly
>> packaged.
>
>Yes; I've always wondered why people are after such information as this.
>I can see wanting formulas for pyro developers and other exotic stuff,
>but Dektol? Just go out and buy it. Do people actually mix their own?
I don't mix Dektol - D-72 - because I use a modified Ansco 130 for prints. You
don't really need a huge assortment of chemicals on hand to mix just about any
developer, film or print, that you may want to try. As far as going out &
buying it, the closest place to me that MIGHT have it in stock is 50 miles away.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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David Nebenzahl
> On Wed, 13 Aug 2008 20:08:43 -0700, David Nebenzahl <nob...@but.us.chickens>
> wrote:
>
>>On 8/13/2008 4:16 PM Michael spake thus:
>>
>>> On 2008-08-12 17:23:09 -0400, Larry <l_kr...@canoemail.com> said:
>>>
>>>> Does anyone have a formula for Kodak Dektol. thanks once again in
>>>> advance
>>>
>>> This is, I trust, a largely intellectual exercise. Last I checked
>>> Dektol was neither hard to find nor expensive. And it comes neatly
>>> packaged.
>>
>>Yes; I've always wondered why people are after such information as this.
>>I can see wanting formulas for pyro developers and other exotic stuff,
>>but Dektol? Just go out and buy it. Do people actually mix their own?
>
> I don't mix Dektol - D-72 - because I use a modified Ansco 130 for prints. You
> don't really need a huge assortment of chemicals on hand to mix just about any
> developer, film or print, that you may want to try. As far as going out &
> buying it, the closest place to me that MIGHT have it in stock is 50 miles away.
Whereas the places you buy the chemicals to mix it are how far away?
--
"In 1964 Barry Goldwater declared: 'Elect me president, and I
will bomb the cities of Vietnam, defoliate the jungles, herd the
population into concentration camps and turn the country into a
wasteland.' But Lyndon Johnson said: 'No! No! No! Don't you dare do
that. Let ME do it.'"
- Characterization (paraphrased) of the 1964 Goldwater/Johnson
presidential race by Professor Irwin Corey, "The World's Foremost
Authority".