Developing any film as b&w (was Re: Mystery film)
Les Bonser
I seem to remember reading something somewhere ages ago that all films are
basically b&w film (i.e., silver halide) and that various other dyes and
chemicals are exchanged for the silver during parts of the development.
Therefore you can basically develop any film as b&w negative film as a last
resort.
Is this true, or did I imagine this???
Les
--
Les Bonser
Writer and Photographer
Las Vegas, Nevada USA
http://home.att.net/~photodoglv (Home of the PhotoDog!)
http://home.att.net/~lbonser (Personal home page including fan fiction and
toy poodle info)
"Bill" <fr...@go.com> wrote in message news:39DF264A...@go.com...
> A friend recently gave me two cameras that his father had before he died
> a few years ago (a Nikon EM and a Zeiss Ikon Contaflex S). Inside one
> of them is a film canister that was obviously home rolled (ie, bulk
> loaded). It is labeled simply as ER 135. Any ideas what this might
> be? I would like to process them for my friend's sake, but I don't know
> how to have it processed.
>
> I want to avoid snip-testing if possible.
>
> TIA,
>
> Bill
>
Q.G. de Bakker
> Interesting quandary.
>
> I seem to remember reading something somewhere ages ago that all films are
> basically b&w film (i.e., silver halide) and that various other dyes and
> chemicals are exchanged for the silver during parts of the development.
> Therefore you can basically develop any film as b&w negative film as a
last
> resort.
>
> Is this true, or did I imagine this???
In principal, yes, it's true.
But not knowing what particular kind of 'modified' B&W film you're dealing
with still means you don't know how to develop this film properly, i.e.
without ruining it.
PHOTO-TECH
safe to say that all films use a silver halide that carries
a latent image which can be developed in a B&W developer. I
would recommend something pretty stout like HC 110 or T-Max
RS is possible for any color films. And of course a snip
test to get development dialed-in.
Regards,
John S. Douglas
Photographer Web Master Darkroom Wizard
=============================================
Les Bonser
--
Les Bonser
Writer and Photographer
Las Vegas, Nevada USA
http://home.att.net/~photodoglv (Home of the PhotoDog!)
http://home.att.net/~lbonser (Personal home page including fan fiction and
toy poodle info)
"Q.G. de Bakker" <q...@worldonline.nl> wrote in message
news:8rpapn$bks$1...@nereid.worldonline.nl...
> Les Bonser wrote:
>
> > Interesting quandary.
> >
> > I seem to remember reading something somewhere ages ago that all films
are
> > basically b&w film (i.e., silver halide) and that various other dyes and
> > chemicals are exchanged for the silver during parts of the development.
> > Therefore you can basically develop any film as b&w negative film as a
> last
> > resort.
> >
> > Is this true, or did I imagine this???
>
Lynne
I had a colour film developed when I was a child back in 1970 that had
been mistakenly put through b/w chemistry by the local lab in the
small country town in which I grew up.
The lab realising the mistake contacted the Australian head office of
Kodak and sent the film to one of their experts to look at.
Some months later, my father picked up the film from the lab, with the
COLOUR prints that had been done by Big Yellow. I still have some of
the prints today, but it would take some searching to dig them out
along with the negatives.
I don't know what the expert did, but the colour was quite reasonable,
and although not perfect, it was quite acceptable to myself at that
age, and to my family who's pictures featured.
So in answer to your question, this could be possible, but I don't
know how good your results would be with out testing a few rolls or
parts of rolls and seeing what you can get. Like my shots from years
ago, it could be possible to get a fair picture, but would possibly
take some experimentation.
Hope this helps,
Perhaps someone has an idea of how this magic was done?
Peter
Les Bonser <lbo...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:DCRD5.21504$tl2.1...@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
James LaMar
processing reminds me of the days of the magazine Creative Camera &
Darkroom. If I remember correctly, C-22 film was a bit different from
today's films, with far more silver and a heavier emulsion. Developing
in C-22 developer, exposing the film to light, stopping re-development,
re-bleaching the film in C-22 bleach, wash, re-fixing the film, and
washing the film may have been the Kodak means of saving the color film,
although it has been years since I've read the article.
Patrick Dignan used to know this stuff, but he's retired. Chuck Lange
at Kodak would know: 1-800 242-2424 ext 60 (you might not be able to get
him).
James LaMar
LaMar's Darkroom
Madjid
> > A friend recently gave me two cameras that his father had before he died
> > a few years ago (a Nikon EM and a Zeiss Ikon Contaflex S). Inside one
> > of them is a film canister that was obviously home rolled (ie, bulk
> > loaded). It is labeled simply as ER 135. Any ideas what this might
> > be? I would like to process them for my friend's sake, but I don't know
> > how to have it processed.
> >
> > I want to avoid snip-testing if possible.
What I will do is first determine what film it is (if possible)
by cutting 2 to 3" of the leader and develop in a standard B&W
developper using short dev time.
This should allow you to read the film band and number on the
edges. Then you should know which film it is and process
accordingly.
Bill
processing some B&W film tomorrow.
Thanks,
Bill
Madjid wrote:
> > "Bill" <fr...@go.com> wrote in message news:39DF264A...@go.com...
> > > A friend recently gave me two cameras that his father had before he died
> > > a few years ago (a Nikon EM and a Zeiss Ikon Contaflex S). Inside one
> > > of them is a film canister that was obviously home rolled (ie, bulk
> > > loaded). It is labeled simply as ER 135. Any ideas what this might
> > > be? I would like to process them for my friend's sake, but I don't know
> > > how to have it processed.
> > >
> > > I want to avoid snip-testing if possible.
>
Ron Speirs
: > "Bill" <fr...@go.com> wrote in message news:39DF264A...@go.com...
: > > A friend recently gave me two cameras that his father had before he died
: > > a few years ago (a Nikon EM and a Zeiss Ikon Contaflex S). Inside one
: > > of them is a film canister that was obviously home rolled (ie, bulk
: > > loaded). It is labeled simply as ER 135. Any ideas what this might
: > > be? I would like to process them for my friend's sake, but I don't know
: > > how to have it processed.
: > >
: > > I want to avoid snip-testing if possible.
I have processed color negative paper as B&W, and later turned the print
into color. The procedure is described in Patrick Dignan's book,
"Simplified Color Processing Formulas", page 60. Basically, this is the
procedure:
Develop in Dektol
Stop
Fixer
Wash and Dry
Then at any later time, to turn the picture into color:
Bleach in Ferricyanide/Bromide bleach
Wash
Color Developer
Stop
Wash
Bleach and Fixer
Wash and Dry
Since color negative film uses the same basic chemistry sequence as paper,
I see no reason that this wouldn't work on film. Of course, the color
balance may be altered and the saturation may increase (the subject of
later articles in Darkroom & Creative Camera Techniques), you WILL get
a color image from this procedure.
In thinking through the chemical steps, this procedure would probably NOT
work with color slide film, because the reversal of color depends on the
silver halide particles which were NOT exposed and developed in the First
Developer. Since unexposed silver halides are removed in B&W fixer, they
wouldn't be present for any subsequent reversal step.
Do some experimenting with color negative film, and see how it works.
Ron Speirs
Robert L. Vervoordt
LaMar) wrote:
>The account about Kodak rescuing a color film from black-and-white
>processing reminds me of the days of the magazine Creative Camera &
>Darkroom. If I remember correctly, C-22 film was a bit different from
>today's films, with far more silver and a heavier emulsion. Developing
>in C-22 developer, exposing the film to light, stopping re-development,
>re-bleaching the film in C-22 bleach, wash, re-fixing the film, and
>washing the film may have been the Kodak means of saving the color film,
>although it has been years since I've read the article.
I answered something like this a few months ago. The procedure is to
process fully as a black and white, right through fixing and washing,
then exposing to bright light and reprocessing in the normal color
nrgative process; dev, bleach, fix, wash stabiliser, etc.
This was a trick used from the motion picture days, in which we cut off
a strip from the head or tail of a MP roll that had been exposed and put
it in a pail of Dektol or DK-50 to check for exposure. While the strips
were often discarded, sometimes they were rebleaced and put through an
amateur color neg kit to get some paper prints.
At home, I experimented further with 5454, which was like the C-22
amateur color neg and got speed incereases of about a stop and a half,
using something like Acufine as the B&W developer. Later I formulated
my own developer and got even better results. By this time, the new
Kodak 5247 and Fuji films came on the scene and they responded, too.
While it's not an automatic slam dunk, you probably can use most color
negs in a variety of common B&W developers for some image enhancing and
image destroying effects. I know that, if I had to really push some
color neg today, I'd do a few experiments with this technique
beforehand.
>
>Patrick Dignan used to know this stuff, but he's retired. Chuck Lange
>at Kodak would know: 1-800 242-2424 ext 60 (you might not be able to get
>him).
I heard that Pat died a few years ago. As for Chuck Lange, he might be
forthcoming.
There have been a good number of articles on techniques such as this
appearing in various darkroom magazines in the past 30 or 40 years, I'm
glad Ican remeber from my own experience and not have to dig through
something like that. Then again, it can be a wonderful voyage of
discovery for a true lover of the craft.
>
>
>
>
>James LaMar
>LaMar's Darkroom
>
Robert L. Vervoordt
<rl...@mindspring.com>
Robert L. Vervoordt
bright light after the bleach. Since you did it yourself with good
results, I figure that you did it right, but just forgot to write it
down in the typing of the procedure.
On 9 Oct 2000 18:54:08 GMT, Ron Speirs <rsp...@xmission.xmission.com>
wrote:
>I have processed color negative paper as B&W, and later turned the print
>into color. The procedure is described in Patrick Dignan's book,
>"Simplified Color Processing Formulas", page 60. Basically, this is the
>procedure:
> Develop in Dektol
> Stop
> Fixer
> Wash and Dry
>Then at any later time, to turn the picture into color:
> Bleach in Ferricyanide/Bromide bleach
> Wash
> Color Developer
> Stop
> Wash
> Bleach and Fixer
> Wash and Dry
>
>Since color negative film uses the same basic chemistry sequence as paper,
>I see no reason that this wouldn't work on film. Of course, the color
>balance may be altered and the saturation may increase (the subject of
>later articles in Darkroom & Creative Camera Techniques), you WILL get
>a color image from this procedure.
Correct, it does. It has to be carefully set up, through
experimentation or prior procedure to get close to normal results.
Often it will result in a speed increase with boosted contrast and
grain.
>
>In thinking through the chemical steps, this procedure would probably NOT
>work with color slide film, because the reversal of color depends on the
>silver halide particles which were NOT exposed and developed in the First
>Developer. Since unexposed silver halides are removed in B&W fixer, they
>wouldn't be present for any subsequent reversal step.
That's true, too. With reversal film, the final result would be a
strange color negative with no colr mask.
Using a different first developer and completing the rest of the
reversal process can produce a transparency with differennt but still
useful results. Alternately it is possible to first develop the
reversal film, then stop development with a water wash and dry it for
later completion, starting with reexposure and color development and the
rest of the steps, giving you a normal transparency.
Robert L. Vervoordt
<rl...@mindspring.com>