A Simple Processing Of Color Negs?
Alan Smithee
other moderately expensive system? How critical is controlled development
anyway? Cannot shifts in colors be compensated in the enlarger by a turn of
the knob? Or on the scanner with a tweak of the histogram? Thx.
UC
Color processing of every kind requires tight temperature and timing
control.
In other words, NO!
Gregory Blank
"Alan Smithee" <some...@asdf.com> wrote:
Tetenal makes a room temp C41. Past a certain point you don't want the
film to be outside the process. C41 is a little more forgiving than E6
regarding this but shifted colors are problematic in either scans or
direct optical prints. I would stay within the suggested guidelines,
also my belief is that the more complex kits give better results over
all.
--
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"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
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Jean-David Beyer
tank. I did E-6 once and it worked out just fine. But you must pay
attention to the times and temperatures. I did it just once, in a
photography class in the early 1970s, but it probably would work today.
You use a water bath to maintain the temperature. The first time, you
mix up 100%water and 0% chemicals for each component of the chemistry.
You fill a dishpan or something with hot water somewhat over the process
temperature you must use.
Then when the chemicals are at the right temperature (perhaps 4 degrees
over the desired processing temperature), you run the process and
measure the (first) developer temperature after the development step,
and the fix temperature after the fix (or blix) step. If the developer
temperature is the same number of degrees under the desired process
temper as it was before, you used the correct starting temperature.
If the fix temperature is withing the range specified by the chemistry
manufacturer, all is OK.
You might want to do this a few times to make sure the temperatures are
under control. Then do it with real film and properly mixed chemistry.
It will work, but if you do more than a few rolls a year, you may wish
to get something like a Jobo CPE (or larger) processor. If you do not
need to process many rolls of film, perhaps you should just find a good
color lab.
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Nick Zentena
> Is there a simple way to process color negs without investing in a Jobo or
Sure. Use a water bath. The Jobo tanks hold temp pretty well and C-41
times are short. The critical one is the developer which is 3:15. Warm the
tank before you start by standing it in the water bath. Add chemicals at the
right temp and you're fine. The rest of the steps have fairly wide temp
ranges. If you use the Jobo tanks on a roller base then you've got agitation
taken care of also. Plug the motorbase into a timer and you've got your
timing looked after.
Nick
Nick Zentena
BTW I mean use the water bath to stand the chemicals in. Not to put the
motorbase in-))
Nick
Alan Smithee
This sounds reasonable. Thanks.
Alan Smithee
Thank you.
David Starr
wrote:
Use a kitty litter box or other container that's about 2" lower than
your developing tank. Something that'll hold 3 or 4 gallons of water.
Use 2 aquarium heaters (100 watt) and an aquarium water pump to heat &
circulate the water. Temperatures can be held quite accurately with
this. If the chemistry is supposed to be used at 100 degrees, get the
water to 102. Put the bottles of chemicals in the container, and your
thermometer in the developer bottle. When everything's at the right
temperature and stable, hold the film tank in the water for 3 or 4
minutes to warm it, then just follow the processing instructions.
The important thing is to be CONSISTANT. Do everything EXACTLY the
same way every time and you should get good results. Your filtration
for prints may be slightly different from someone else's, but there's
no reason you can't get correctly color balanced prints.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Dave Starr, Senior Shop Rat Emeritus: 14,647 days in a GM plant.
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Alan Smithee
Could you commend a type or model of aquarium heater and pump for me? Most
that I've seen are meant to be mounted vertically in deep tanks as opposed
to shallow pans. Thx.
Nick Zentena
>
> Could you commend a type or model of aquarium heater and pump for me? Most
> that I've seen are meant to be mounted vertically in deep tanks as opposed
> to shallow pans. Thx.
I use this one [350watt model] mounted in a picnic cooler.
http://www.wonbrothers.com/product/heater/icheater.htm
Avoid the digital model. The analog can be adjusted to get higher temps
then the specs claim. Mine came that way from the factory.
Nick
Ken Hart
"Alan Smithee" <some...@asdf.com> wrote in message
news:%gW1e.829905$6l.469523@pd7tw2no...
I use the same tank and reels that I use for B&W. I also use a water bath
for the chemicals to maintain the temp (Using scrap parts from an old
minilab I had sitting around, I made a thermostat controlled water bath. If
you have some old minilabs sitting in your garage, you could probably do the
same!).
Color shifts can be compensated _to a certain extent_, if all the colors
have shifted in the same direction by the same amount. Improper developement
can lead to shifts at different rates in the different colors, and that's
the problem. That said, the process isn't critical; it's fussy.
Ken Hart
Francis A. Miniter
It is relatively easy.
I use the same stainless steel tanks and reels I use for B&W.
1. I load the film onto the reel and place the reel in the steel tank.
2. I put the chemical containers in a hot water bath to bring them to
temperature. As another poster noted, only the developer has to be at 100
degrees F. The others can range from 75 to 105 degrees.
3. Meanwhile, the film and tank are warmed in a water bath of about 100
degrees. It need not be precise. The purpose of this tank is to keep the
chemicals from changing temperature rapidly.
4. When the developer is 100 degrees (be sure you are measuring temperature
after shaking or stirring the container), I measure it into a heated graduated
cylinder and pour it into the steel tank, which I place in the water bath, and
remove for agitation.
If you make your own C-41 chemicals as I do, the cost is really low and you can
afford to throw out chemistry after a single use. Do a Google Groups search in
this forum with my name and C-41 and you should find the home brewing formulas.
Have fun!
Francis A. Miniter
Alan Smithee
Too cool.
Alan Smithee
Excellent.
Alan Smithee
Thx.
Justin Thyme
& Paterson kit for E6 - purely because they are readily available. The Agfa
kit allows processing at either 30C or 38C - personally I prefer 30C as the
times are much longer and that temperature is easier to maintain. Quality
was good - colours were nicely saturated and quite accurate when scanned on
a Fuji Frontier (I prefer Fuji superia family films - I found Kodak films
did give slightly off colours but easily correctible). I have only run into
real problems once - I tried to develop one more roll of film than what the
kit was designed for, and ended up with quite dull desaturated negs (could
have partly been cos the film was old too). I have a rectangular mop bucket
that I fill with water about 3-5C above my target temp. I stand my chemicals
in it, with a thermometer in the developer. When the temp of the developer
reaches my target temp, I start developing. During the development process,
I stand the tank in the water bath. The whole process at 30C takes about 25
minutes.
The paterson E6 kit is also easy to use and delivers good results. My only
disaster with this was again when I attempted to use the batch of chemicals
for one more roll than they were designed for. This is only marginally more
demanding than the C41 - there is one extra process compared to C41. This
kit is designed for 38C, and I use the same method of getting temp and
maintaining temp as above.
I actually find it harder to maintain temp for B&W than for colour -
considering my average daytime temps are in the mid 30's, and water comes
out of the tap in the high 20s, it is much easier to maintain a bath at
30-38C than it is to maintain a bath at 20C for B&W. I have plans of
creating a temp controlled bath - one that will allow either cooling or
heating. My plan is to use an electronically controlled thermo switch, and
direct water either through an ice bath for cooling or through a hot water
bath for heating. When the water in the main bath needs it's temp adjusted,
a small submersible pump would be kicked in to direct a little water through
the appropriate bath.
>
>
Tom Ellliott
perhaps two) is a VERY accurate thermometer and be consistant. Then
calabrate and be consistant, all ways be consistant even with the "simple"
kits.
When in the USAF 1958-1961 in Germany, I processed my rollie slides in the
barracks showers between 12 midnight at 6am. My first night was just to
monitor the temp to see if the wate staid the same for six hours. It did and
then because I had a plastic day loader for film processing I could only
process three rolls a night for I had to dry the plastic reels. I could have
bought more daylight processors but was on a budget. I am now scanning those
slides from the 50s. Some are starting to loose color but after scanning
look just great on my Epson 2450 scanner and printed with the Epson 1280.
Yours,
Tom
"UC" <uraniumc...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1112027589.4...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Travis Porco
(easier) temperatures. I've been meaning to try it.
On a different note, I wonder if it is possible to use an ultra-low contrast
developer on color film, fix it, convert the silver back to silver halide, and
then redevelop that with color chemistry.
In article <U852e.834426$6l.239036@pd7tw2no>,
David Starr
wrote:
>Could you commend a type or model of aquarium heater and pump for me? Most
>that I've seen are meant to be mounted vertically in deep tanks as opposed
>to shallow pans. Thx.
I just used the heaters that are designed to hang on the side of the
tank. Angling them doesn't hurt as long as the thermometer section
near the top is submerged (and not so deep the top section gets in the
water!). I also taped some fairly heavy fishing sinkers to thew
bottom of the heater tubes so they wouldn't float up from the bottom.
I used 2 - 100 watt heaters; one had the adjusting knob turned so it
was always on & the other was used to adjust the temperature.
The pump was also made to hang on the side of the tank. The inlet was
designed to connect to some sort of filter - I just left the long tube
off. I can't remember the brand, but it was sold as a replacement
pump for a filter unit.
Robert Vervoordt
Porco) wrote:
>It might still be possible to get Beseler Cn-2 chemistry, which works at lower
>(easier) temperatures. I've been meaning to try it.
>
>On a different note, I wonder if it is possible to use an ultra-low contrast
>developer on color film, fix it, convert the silver back to silver halide, and
>then redevelop that with color chemistry.
Yes, I did a project for Deluxe labs in their NYC facility, using just
this sort of procedure. It can work to give a speed boost. More
usually it gave a boost in contrast, with only minimal speed effect.
The correct procedure was quite complicated, involving formulation of
a proper first developer. I have the notes somewhere in a 10x30
storage facility. That's probably the best place for them, as I have
little use for the procedure these days.
>
>I
Robert Vervoordt, MFA
Robert Vervoordt
wrote:
>Is there a simple way to process color negs without investing in a Jobo or
There has been a lot of good advice on maintainig temperature and use
of equipment on hand.
I have to add that a divided color negative developer will make
processing color negatives into child's play. There was one published
as Patrick Dignan's Divided C41 color negative developer. I had been
using my own formulation when Dignan opened a contest for the best
such formula. After the contest, he patented, or copyrighted, "his"
color negative divided developer. Since there is really only a
limited way to develop C41 film, his formula and mine (and, I believe,
those of others) are almost identical. Basically all you do is follow
the principles for almost all true divided developers, in that you
increase the developing agent(s) in the A bath and double the alkali
in the B bath. Sometimes you split the Sulfite between th two baths
and fiddle with some other control elements.
I founs it trivial and consistent to treat my divided color developers
as a kind of Diafine for color. I just got the temp over 75F,
observed the minimum time and agitation and kept things clean. The
results were just fine from both still camera and reloaded MP film.
They were easily printed by the local 1 hour processor.
Some others in this NG have dabbledwith this. Sreenath Battaglia,
Jorge Omar and Some Dude may be able to add more recent info.
Robert Vervoordt, MFA
Travis Porco
Travis Porco
Now THIS is an interesting idea! I gather it is precision in the formulation,
rather than in the first developer time/temperature, that is going to be
needed. I can't wait to try this.
Robert Vervoordt
Porco) wrote:
>In article <rduj41ls5k9ge9i8n...@4ax.com>,
>Robert Vervoordt <rl...@ptd.net> wrote:
>>On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 22:29:51 -0000, tcp...@transbay.net (Travis
>>Porco) wrote:
>
>>>It might still be possible to get Beseler Cn-2 chemistry, which works at lower
>>>(easier) temperatures. I've been meaning to try it.
>
>>>On a different note, I wonder if it is possible to use an ultra-low contrast
>>>developer on color film, fix it, convert the silver back to silver halide, and
>>>then redevelop that with color chemistry.
>
>>Yes, I did a project for Deluxe labs in their NYC facility, using just
>>this sort of procedure. It can work to give a speed boost. More
>>usually it gave a boost in contrast, with only minimal speed effect.
>>The correct procedure was quite complicated, involving formulation of
>>a proper first developer. I have the notes somewhere in a 10x30
>>storage facility. That's probably the best place for them, as I have
>>little use for the procedure these days.
>
>I'd be curious how to do it.
Just process a roll of C41 color neg in a BW negative formula. Fix
out the remaining undeveloped halide. Wash a lot. Bleach the BW
image in a rehalogenating bleach; Ferricyanide/Bromide, Copper
Sulfate/Ammonium or Sodium Chloride are some common types that work.
Wash a lot and redevelop in the C41 kit to completion in room light.
I can't tell you much about the first (BW) developer, except that most
commonly available commercial formulae are a bit rough, in that they
will give a lot of contrast and probably lose speed. I think I used
Diafine successfully, but I can't remember how I modified the
procedure.
I think I came up with some kind of Phenidone/Glycin/Other combination
for speed enhancement and suppression of highhlight contrast.
I never used VitC, so that may be a productive path.
Good luck and never fear to try out something outrageous.
Robert Vervoordt, MFA
Herbert Kanner
David Starr <dave...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I have posted a year or so ago a description of my method of maintaining
a water bath at approximately 104 Degrees F. I wired the immersion
heater that is supposed to boil one cup of water for tea or coffee in
series with a dimmer switch meant for lighting control. A little trial
and error will discover a setting for the dimmer switch that will allow
this simple heater to maintain the temperature of the water bath for at
least the development time.
--
To send me email, replace deadspam.com by acm.org
Travis Porco
Good advice!
Thanks for the suggestions. I can't wait to try it. I like the idea of trying
POTA. Does this sort of processing work better on some C41 films rather than
others. cheers, -travis
Jeff
> other moderately expensive system? How critical is controlled development
> anyway? Cannot shifts in colors be compensated in the enlarger by a turn of
> the knob? Or on the scanner with a tweak of the histogram? Thx.
I extracted the heater tubes from a redundant 10" x 8" Nova print
processor, drilled matching holes in a large plastic containor,
inserted the heaters and put aluminum strips above the tubes to
protect them from containers put in the large container. Filled with
water and switched on. Thermostat set to 40c which is just perfect for
processing at 38c and that's it. Works well.
Cheers
Jeff
Alan Smithee
Genius.