Seeking advice on TMAX P3200 Film.
Robert Ardinger Jr.
I have used this film off and on for a while but had not done any
formal investigation (testing) of it until now. Using it at ASA 3200
and 1600 and developing it in HC110 (dilution B) at 68 degrees (at
recommended times, small tank, inversion agitation) I was able to
photograph in low light situations but was not happy with the
significant grain. I then used TMAX RS developer ("diluted" 1:4 which
is the recommended dilution (i.e. the 25.6 oz bottle added to enough
water to make I gallon) at 75 degrees, small tank, inversion
agitiation, temp. control water bath, recommended times) to develop
the film (again exposed at 3200 and 1600) and got less grain.
I went ahead and did a bit of testing, using an 18% grey board in open
shade on a cloudless day , I exposed the film at various ASA settings
for "zone 1" (4 stops underexposure from meter reading) and "zone 8" (3
stops overexposure from meter reading) and developed in TMAS RS, 75
degrees (as above) for a couple of different times and came up with ASA
800 as the first ASA that registered any measurable density above the
(considerable) film base+fog (FB+F). There was essentially no density
at 6400, 3200 and very, very little at 1600. ASA 800 registered about
0.06 density units above FB+F. A developing time of 8 minutes in TMAX
RS gave an ASA 800 density at "zone" 8 of about 1.25 above FB+F.
Negatives look fairly good. I don't mind the ASA 800 too much (my tri-x
ASA is 200, HC110 dil. B)). Grain is probably acceptable for the film
speed.
I wonder if my experiences are similar to those of others?, Any other
developers I could/should use to perhaps improve grain/effective speed?
Any other suggestions? I would like to use this film as an "all
purpose" "documentary" film to keep in one of my cameras essentially at
all times to record personal events (akin perhaps to a newspaper
photographer). Final print sizes would usually be around 7x10.
Thanks in advance for the help,
Robert
A.J. Milograno
Robert,
I had very similar results testing TMZ, I ordered the manuals
from Kodak on TMZ and read all the variations on developing. My Zone I
testing came out at ISO 1000. I started my developing using TMAX 1:9
@ 75 degrees, rotary in a JOBO, for 11.5 minutes, with a 5 minute
prewash. My film development time was reduced 10% each time, looking for
separation in the upper zones. I had to repeat the development test
twice more, until I settled on 9 min @ 75 degrees rotary, TMAX
1:9...prewash, stop, fix all constant. I got great negatives, great
tonality, contrast and speed. It's not 3200 with this dilute developer,
but I wasn't looking for really high speed, I wanted tonality and shadow
detail with that extra grainy effect. It works for my shooting, but
maybe not others. BTW, it was not planned, but I have been using TMAX
100 for years at 250 ISO, with EXACTLY the same dilution and time.
I can soup them all together, just luck. I don't use TMAX 400 at all.
These two film fill my shooting requirements.
Good luck
Tony Milograno
ajm...@borg.com
Marc Sterling
Also the Tmax developer brings out the best in that film as you've noticed. Shooting
in low light and using the varaible speeds of the film 800-6400 really means throwing
away some shadow detail and using overdevelopment to bring up the density of the mids
and highlights. Thats just the look of highspeed film.
Mainly it gives you those images of scenes captured in their low level natuaral light.
Not full range because of the lost shadow detail, but it can capture some facinating
images.
I havn't tried it but a news photographer friend who uses TMAX 3200 exclusivly says
develop it at 85 degrees and use vigorous agitation. He says it really grabs the
shadow detail. That makes sense. The varios components of the developer have different
activity at differnt temperatures, possibly at 85 one is bringing out the sahdow areas
more actively.
Good luck,
Marc
Lars Stormbom
>
> I would appreciate advice and suggestions on TMAX P3200 (35mm) film.
>
In my experience T-MAX at 1:7 dilution gives very nice grain&contrast
at 12.5 min@24°C at iso 1000. Any faster EI's will give too high
contrast&grain at least for my taste for general purpose use.
Of course other fire-breathing TMZ users are liable to come up with
any number of other combinations.
Ray Ford
>
>Robert Ardinger Jr. wrote:
>>
>> I would appreciate advice and suggestions on TMAX P3200 (35mm) film.
>>
Robert,
I forget the exect rating, but the Kodak data sheet packed with
TMZ states that it is either a 800 or 1000 speed film which can be pushed
to 3200 and beyond. Personally, I've found it very useful at 1600 in TMax
developer, at 3200 in Accufine, if a slower speed film isn't up to the job
at hand.
There are photographers who use TMZ at 800 for the "unique
pictoral qualities" the film produces. Shooting a stable of Kodak TMX and
TMY, Ilford FP4 and HP5, I have all the different qualities I'm looking
for, so I have never utilized TMZ for anything but it's speed. I hear, and
this is second hand but you may think it worth a look, that TMZ at 800 has
excellent tonal and contrast properties for portraits.
There isn't much, if anything, here that you have not discovered
on your own, but I thought I'd throw these thoughts out there. Good
shooting.
Rpf
Jan-Peter Meyn
I use TMZ in Rodinal 1+25, 20degC, 8min at a speed of 1000ASA. Though this
is not the speed one would get with the zoneI=0.10 density rule, the black
on the print is really black. Contrast is alright. (Well, i which i owned
a densitometer...) Rodinal makes a rather grainy, but very pleasant tone.
The image look very sharp, compared to the cloudy apperance of Tmax
developer.
I could send you a print, if you promise to send it back.
Jan-Peter
Peter Cheung
> I would appreciate advice and suggestions on TMAX P3200 (35mm) film.
>
> I have used this film off and on for a while but had not done any
> formal investigation (testing) of it until now. Using it at ASA 3200
> and 1600 and developing it in HC110 (dilution B) at 68 degrees (at
> recommended times, small tank, inversion agitation) I was able to
> photograph in low light situations but was not happy with the
> significant grain. I then used TMAX RS developer ("diluted" 1:4 which
> is the recommended dilution (i.e. the 25.6 oz bottle added to enough
> water to make I gallon) at 75 degrees, small tank, inversion
> agitiation, temp. control water bath, recommended times) to develop
> the film (again exposed at 3200 and 1600) and got less grain.
>
I am not a techno-wizard when it comes to darkroom processing, but all I know from working with TMZ (I have shot a hundred or so rolls of it over the last few years) is that the ONLY developer which worked well with it is TMAX developer. There are other great developers which work great with other films, but not TMZ. I have used Rodinal, Ilford, Kodak D76, etc. but all look grainy. Another thing, when developing TMZ, I get the best grain when I first agitate for first 30 secs, and then DO NOT agitate again until the end. Work great for me. I swear by it.
If you don't really need 3200 speed, the best grain for pushed film is TMY pushed to 1600, once
again, use TMAX developer. I think the grain is so good that it's comparable to TMZ 'pulled' to 1600. Although I have had some amazing fine grain print a couple of times with HP5+ pushed to 1600 (I used it since the photo-editor had only HP5+ at the time).
Of course, it's all my personal preference.
Peter Cheung
UBC ARES
K2
>I would appreciate advice and suggestions on TMAX P3200 (35mm) film.
>
>I wonder if my experiences are similar to those of others?, Any other
>developers I could/should use to perhaps improve grain/effective speed?
Robert, I have only experimented a few times with TMAX 3200, but I have
been very impressed with the level of grain that I have achieved using
TMAX develeloper (NOT RS). I would say the grain is comparable to or
even finer than with Tri-X film.
I noticed that you used TMAX RS for developing your film. I'm wondering
is this may have been a portion of the reason why you were not impressed
with the results. RS stands for replenishing solution. What I've been
told is that this is added to TMAX developer solution that has already
been utilized on other rolls so that you can continue to use these
solutions for multiple processing. I personally do not re-use any of my
film developers so I can't tell you exactly what's in the RS developer
vs. the full strength developer. I've not heard of using the
replenishing solution by itself, but Kodak could tell you more.
Also, you noted a temperature of 75 degrees with TMAX RS. I generally
stay around 68 degrees and no more than 70 degrees. I thought I
remembered reading somewhere that there are certain films more prone to
higher grain at "higher" temperatures.
Lastly, have you visited the Kodak web site? It has their instructions
and recommendations on how to develop their TMAX films
(http://www.kodak.com:80/photography/photography.shtml). Good luck!
K2
John Hicks
around .10 DU above fb&f.
One interesting thing about this film, though, is that with extended
development there _is_ a slight usable increase in shadow density. For
example, I get a good EI 1600 with extended development in T-Max dev
and accepting .08 DU above fb&f rather than .10.
John's Camera Shop
Charles Albertson
>I would appreciate advice and suggestions on TMAX P3200 (35mm) film.
[Testing stuff excised.]
>I wonder if my experiences are similar to those of others?, Any other
>developers I could/should use to perhaps improve grain/effective speed?
> Any other suggestions? I would like to use this film as an "all
>purpose" "documentary" film to keep in one of my cameras essentially at
>all times to record personal events (akin perhaps to a newspaper
>photographer). Final print sizes would usually be around 7x10.
If your local photo shop carries any of the chemistry put out by
The Formulary in Missoula, MT, you might want to try their Excel developer
additive. Depending on whether (or how much) you're pushing the film
speed, it significantly reduces development time --- and I've found this
reduces grain formulation. If you don't have ready access to The
Formulary's products, email me --- I have their toll-free number around
somewhere and you can order direct. They also make a 2-part developer for
T-Max films (which I haven't used) and an archival fixer (TF-4) that is
remarkably effective at getting rid of that purple residual dye in the
film base, which a lot of people complain about.
Chuck Albertson
chu...@mail.eskimo.com
Richard Knoppow
>On APRIL 3RD, rard...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Robert Ardinger Jr.) wrote:
>>I would appreciate advice and suggestions on TMAX P3200 (35mm) film.
>>
>...I then used TMAX RS developer...
>>I wonder if my experiences are similar to those of others?, Any other
>>developers I could/should use to perhaps improve grain/effective speed?
>Robert, I have only experimented a few times with TMAX 3200, but I have
>been very impressed with the level of grain that I have achieved using
>TMAX develeloper (NOT RS). I would say the grain is comparable to or
>even finer than with Tri-X film.
>I noticed that you used TMAX RS for developing your film. I'm wondering
>is this may have been a portion of the reason why you were not impressed
>with the results. RS stands for replenishing solution. What I've been
>told is that this is added to TMAX developer solution that has already
>been utilized on other rolls so that you can continue to use these
>solutions for multiple processing. I personally do not re-use any of my
>film developers so I can't tell you exactly what's in the RS developer
>vs. the full strength developer. I've not heard of using the
>replenishing solution by itself, but Kodak could tell you more.
>Also, you noted a temperature of 75 degrees with TMAX RS. I generally
>stay around 68 degrees and no more than 70 degrees. I thought I
>remembered reading somewhere that there are certain films more prone to
>higher grain at "higher" temperatures.
>Lastly, have you visited the Kodak web site? It has their instructions
>and recommendations on how to develop their TMAX films
>(http://www.kodak.com:80/photography/photography.shtml). Good luck!
>K2
T-Max developer is recommended by Kodak for roll film only, T-Max RS
for both roll and sheet film. T-Max RS is NOT a replenisher for
T-Max. It is a self-replenisher and is not compatible with T-Max. I
usually split the developer into two half-gallon bottles and use one
of them as replenisher for the other.
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, Ca.
dick...@ix.netcom.com
Andrew Oland
Hi K2,
K> On APRIL 3RD, rard...@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu (Robert Ardinger Jr.) wrote:
>>I would appreciate advice and suggestions on TMAX P3200 (35mm) film.
>>
>>I wonder if my experiences are similar to those of others?, Any other
>>developers I could/should use to perhaps improve grain/effective speed?
K> Robert, I have only experimented a few times with TMAX 3200, but I have
K> been very impressed with the level of grain that I have achieved using
K> TMAX develeloper (NOT RS). I would say the grain is comparable to or
K> even finer than with Tri-X film.
K> I noticed that you used TMAX RS for developing your film. I'm
K> wondering is this may have been a portion of the reason why you were
K> not impressed with the results. RS stands for replenishing solution.
K> What I've been told is that this is added to TMAX developer solution
K> that has already been utilized on other rolls so that you can continue
K> to use these solutions for multiple processing. I personally do not
K> re-use any of my film developers so I can't tell you exactly what's in
K> the RS developer vs. the full strength developer. I've not heard of
K> using the replenishing solution by itself, but Kodak could tell you
K> more.
K> Also, you noted a temperature of 75 degrees with TMAX RS. I generally
K> stay around 68 degrees and no more than 70 degrees. I thought I
K> remembered reading somewhere that there are certain films more prone to
K> higher grain at "higher" temperatures.
K> Lastly, have you visited the Kodak web site? It has their instructions
K> and recommendations on how to develop their TMAX films
K> (http://www.kodak.com:80/photography/photography.shtml). Good luck!
I agree, using this developer/temperature combination gives just as
good a grain as with the 400 ISO.
Matthew.
Robert Ardinger Jr.
this film as a general purpose film for indoor use (no flash) and some
outdoor use and I did want as fine as grain as possible (for this film
/ tri-x type grain would be fine). I appreciate the reference to
Kodak's pages (I had visited there a while ago but it only had digital
stuff on it at that time). A number of useful technical publications
are availible there (I got the best result using their search engine
rather than their index).
Most responses indicated that TMZ P3200 is indeed an 800 to 1000 ASA
film. (as does Kodak). It would seem that T-max developer is the
preferred developer (with some differing opinions on
dilution/temperature/agitation).
While perusing the Kodak data I noted that with T-MAX developer, the
suggested developing times for all 35mm tmax films are fairly similar
at certain temperatures. One responder suggested a regeim that allowed
developing T-MAX 100 and P3200 together at the same time/dev.
conc./temp. This would be appealing since the fewer different
processing schemes I have, the less likely I'll make mistakes. Any
thoughts on how realistic is to expect to work out a reliable
developing plan that would work for T-100 and T-P3200, if not for all 3
T-Max films (100,400,P3200)?
Robert
Craig Walters
I have a recipe for Tri-X at 3200 that works. I prefer it to TMAX at any cost.
Email for details.
Craig
--
==================================
Craig Walters
mailto:cr...@hypercon.com
Aleexs
At 68 degrees for 11 minutes (undiluted), the grain is surprisingly fine.
The only problem is that the upper values tend to block up. However, this
is easily solved by flashing while printing.
-Aleexs
Ilan Ginzburg
recommended Kodak time and agitation is absolutely wonderful.
Ilan.
Tom Farrington
found it to be about a stop faster than TMZ (i.e. close to a
genuine EI 1600) with our "normal" development. The grain
structure and size of Neopan at EI 1600 is equal or better
than that of TMZ at EI 800. The scale is excellent. Your
results may vary, but this film works for us!
Best,
Tom
Tony Sleep
> TMZ exposed at 800 and developped in Kodak TMAX at 24°c at the
> recommended Kodak time and agitation is absolutely wonderful.
100% agreed - grain and sharpness is about what ISO400 was 20 years ago.
And it's easy to print. You lose very little by rating and devving at up
to about 1250 - slightly worse grain, slightly weaker shadows, but still
easy to print. Beyond that isn't really worth it IME, at 1600 Fuji has
the edge.
Tony Sleep
Richard
I agree whole-heartedly! It's an excellent film.