Cross process c41 with black and white chemicals

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chris....@gmail.com

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Feb 3, 2009, 6:49:16 PM2/3/09
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Does anyone have some ballpark times or even qualitative guesses for
processing color print film with black and white chemicals?

I'm taking a class and have free (as in beer) access to b/w
chemicals. Also, I have a few rolls of color (and some slides) laying
around and would be interested to see what they look like when cross
processed.

It's kind of silly, but I don't plan on using the rolls for anything
else.

Doug Jewell

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Feb 3, 2009, 8:13:37 PM2/3/09
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From memory, when I did C41 in Ilford LC29 at 1:19 I dev'd
for about 5-1/2 minutes. I got an image that was barely
scannable and definitely not printable. The B&W chem doesn't
take out any of the mask, dye couplers etc. So if you have a
look at a piece of undev'd C41 film, that's pretty much what
the final dev'd film will look like (slightly clearer but
not much), with a pale grey image in there.
You will most definitely not get a nice transparent orange
masked negative like colour chem gives.
Does it work? yes but barely. Is it worth doing? not in my
opinion.

Now what might be worth trying, but I haven't done...
Dev in B&W chem. Re-Expose to light, and then redevelop in
normal chemistry. In theory this should give you a positive
image but with an orange mask. Scan and adjust out the
orange mask, (or print with a ciba process and filter out
the mask) and you should have a usable image but with odd
colour balance.
Alternatively use E6 film, Dev in B&W, reexpose, then dev in
C41. In theory you should get a tranny with an incorrect
colour/contrast balance.
I'd be curious if anyone has ever tried these processes.

erie patsellis

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Feb 3, 2009, 10:11:29 PM2/3/09
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Or, for more fun, google C41 Acceleration.

erie

JCowie

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Mar 5, 2009, 1:39:51 AM3/5/09
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Hi, wish I'd seen this sooner, Don't Do It. Cross pricessing is running
C41 in E6 or vice versa. One time I mistakenly ran one sheet of 4x5 b/w
thru E6 and it came out clear. Never did it withC41 but I'm pretty sure
you'd get similiar results. The most popular way is C41 in E6. You'll
proably have to pusk it a couple of stops but it varies from film to
film. You can get some neat results, high contrast and weird colors.
Alot offashion photogs used it back in the 80s, I think they liked the
look the high contrast gave faces. I learned this by working in NYC
labs, its alot of hit and miss. Good luck.

David Nebenzahl

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Mar 5, 2009, 2:08:29 AM3/5/09
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On 3/4/2009 10:39 PM JCowie spake thus:

> chris....@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have some ballpark times or even qualitative guesses for
>> processing color print film with black and white chemicals?
>>
>> I'm taking a class and have free (as in beer) access to b/w
>> chemicals. Also, I have a few rolls of color (and some slides) laying
>> around and would be interested to see what they look like when cross
>> processed.
>>
>> It's kind of silly, but I don't plan on using the rolls for anything
>> else.

> Hi, wish I'd seen this sooner, Don't Do It. Cross pricessing is running
> C41 in E6 or vice versa. One time I mistakenly ran one sheet of 4x5 b/w
> thru E6 and it came out clear. Never did it withC41 but I'm pretty sure
> you'd get similiar results. The most popular way is C41 in E6.

Nope.

Reread what he wrote: he says he as access to black & white chemicals.


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K W Hart

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Mar 5, 2009, 12:35:45 PM3/5/09
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"JCowie" <cbl...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:_sKrl.43561$EO2....@newsfe04.iad...

Processing color print film in B&W chemicals will yield a low contrast
negative with an orange mask, making it fairly difficult to print. For
developing times, start with times/temps about the same as Tri-X or a bit
shorter/lower.

As for processing B&W films in color chemicals, there is one simple problem:
color negative images are made from dyes, not silver. The dye image is
formed and then the silver is removed. I have developed B&W film in C-41
developer and C-41 fixer, leaving out the bleach step, and it works, but the
chemical activity is fairly low-- longer times and high temps (100F) are
required.

Go ahead and do your cross-processing fun to get it out of your system. By
the way, processing slide film in C-41 chemistry is kinda neat.


superev...@gmail.com

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Dec 6, 2013, 11:37:45 PM12/6/13
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Jimmy Lane

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May 8, 2015, 7:37:23 PM5/8/15
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I've almost always had great success with HC110-b and using the times for HP5 at 68*.... Of course, I've only done this with Fuji 200 and 400 speed films, but the results are actually pretty awesome. Very visible grain, but extremely fine structure to it.

Try 9 minutes at 68* in HC-110, or 8 minutes in DD-X at 68* and go from there. Keep in mind you will still have the mask and therefore the negs will look dead black in normal room light. They will print or scan perfectly, however.

Jimmy Lane

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May 8, 2015, 7:39:55 PM5/8/15
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Oh boy...didn't mean to bring this thread back from the dead....the OP asked in 2009!!! He probably is shooting with a DSLR by now unless he is really dedicated or shooting MF/LF

zuza...@gmail.com

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Dec 3, 2017, 9:12:31 AM12/3/17
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On Friday, May 8, 2015 at 5:39:55 PM UTC-6, Jimmy Lane wrote:
> Oh boy...didn't mean to bring this thread back from the dead....the OP asked in 2009!!! He probably is shooting with a DSLR by now unless he is really dedicated or shooting MF/LF

Here we are in 2017. I've got a lot of far-outdated Fuji E6 that was ridiculous (purple) when only a couple of years outdated, processed professionally. Since I've got a dozen 120 rolls of this stuff, stored badly in a hot garage, I'm going to try one of them with Rodinal (!) b&w chem. If I get any sort of images I'll scan with my old Epson flatbed (which was as sharp as a friend's Omega but not as sharp as my condenser Durst).

I'll semi-stand develop (only a couple of inversions) 15 minutes @ 1+100. Stand processing isn't temperature or time critical...my favorite with 35mm b&w film but probably uneven with 120. If results are semi-normal looking I may also try D76 or some other humdrum developer, perhaps Plus-X times.

zuza...@gmail.com

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Dec 3, 2017, 9:15:04 AM12/3/17
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By the way, I'm not trying for "cross process" effect, I'm just hoping for a useful/fun negative for scanning and inkjet printing as Black and White.

marek...@gmail.com

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Jun 8, 2018, 1:12:57 PM6/8/18
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I frequently do this using stand development with Rodinal 1+100.
Works great for pretty well every film.

I have noticed that Kodak gold 400, I can follow the times for Ilford HP5 and it gives me really nice contrast negatives.

Good luck.

Zappi

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Jun 22, 2020, 9:01:08 AM6/22/20
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I've developed a few C-41 films (expired Kodacolour 400 and fresh 200)
using variations on the times for Ilford XP2 (I use Ilfosol 3). Since
they have less silver in them it's better to develop for a bit longer
than not enough!

You should get decently contrasty negatives - tones aren't the best but
they look passable.

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Zappi
https://zappi.xyz/
z...@zappi.xyz
zappi on irc.gotham.chat
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Wilbert Vandenberg

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Dec 31, 2020, 11:53:49 AM12/31/20
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Ken Hart

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Dec 31, 2020, 2:53:10 PM12/31/20
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On 12/31/20 11:53 AM, Wilbert Vandenberg wrote:
> https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=develop+C41+in+B+W+chemistry
>

Sure, it will work. Printing exposures will be long because of the
orange mask of the color negs. The orange mask may affect polycontrast
papers.

But why do it? Color chems are not that expensive. I buy Fuji C-41
chemicals in 10L packages, and mix only what I need. It's helpful to
have a couple of syringes for those 6mL of parts B & C!
Color film developing isn't that difficult. Developing is done at 100F
plus or minus 0.5F. But it's only for 3.5 minutes. The rest of the
chemicals are plus or minus 5F.

--
Ken Hart
kwh...@frontier.com
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