Color of Dektol?
Eldritch
I'm starting up my little darkroom again after a lengthy layoff. I've
just mixed some powdered chemicals that I purchased in 1999. The
packages of these chemical look intact. The fixer had a large stain on
the outside, but the aluminized interior side seemed perfectly intact.
All the powders flowed freely.
The D-76 mixed up into a clear liquid.
The fixer mixed up into a whitish cloudy liquid.
The Dektol mixed up into a dirty brownish liquid. Before mixing a
large portion of the crystalline powder was brownish in color.
THe Hypo CLearing Agent mixed-up into a clearish liquid.
I'm concerned about the Dektol. I don't recall how brownish the
Dektol is supposed to be. Do you think the Dektol has gone bad?
I don't think there would be a problem using the Dektol to develop a
few prints. If they don't come out, no harm done. Developing film
would be more critical.
E
Dan Williams
"Eldritch" <Tiredo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3E90CEE7...@hotmail.com...
>
> I'm starting up my little darkroom again after a lengthy layoff. I've
> just mixed some powdered chemicals that I purchased in 1999. >>>
Jeez - Unless you are doing something like platinum prints, the chemicals
are the least expensive part of the whole process. Assuming that your film
and paper are not the same vintage as our chemicals, why would you want to
risk good paper and film to questionable chemicals?
If you are just getting back into darkroom work you have enough relearning
on your plate to have to decide whether unintended results where the result
of "operator error" or dysfunctional chemicals.
Except for the one that was discolored when you opened the package (dump
it), they may be OK. Fixer and Hypo clear are pretty stable. I really don't
see much point in even risking old developers.
My 2 cents worth.
Dan Williams
Eldritch
>
>
> Jeez - Unless you are doing something like platinum prints, the chemicals
> are the least expensive part of the whole process. Assuming that your film
> and paper are not the same vintage as our chemicals, why would you want to
> risk good paper and film to questionable chemicals?
Cut me a little slack, would you. Driving to the photo store to buy
chemicals is an 80 mile round trip for me. I don't see the harm in
testing with three or four sheets of photo paper. Chemistry is a
mystery to me, so I'm asking advice from knowledgeable people on this
list. If you're one of them, cite your knowledge. Cursing at me with
better-safe-than-sorry platitudes, which I can figure out myself, isn't
helpful.
E
James Robinson
>
> I don't recall how brownish the Dektol is supposed to be.
> Do you think the Dektol has gone bad?
If the powder was brown, as you say, then the chemicals are probably
oxidized. The freshly-mixed solution should be clear.
dr bob
the Annapolis area which carried chemicals. Now there are none. There are
some within an hours drive but I elect to buy from the major NYC stores via
email and credit card. Believe me, it took some time to convince myself
that this was safe and reliable. Now I have no problems (my children say
I'm being dragged kicking and screaming into the Millennium) and the
turn-around on my last purchase was two days! Sorry to say however, they
won't ship liquid fixer any longer, so I'll have to do it scratch, as of
old.
Your Dektol is definitely N.G. Dilute it to the max and dump it. As the
D76 is probably about the same vintage, I would get rid of it as well. Poor
results from poor film developers are unrecoverable. We all wish you very
good luck in your venture. Check back and let us know how you progress,
O.K?
Truly, dr bob.
"Eldritch" <Tiredo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3E90EB33...@hotmail.com...
Tacit
>large portion of the crystalline powder was brownish in color.
It's oxidized, and no good. Dump it.
--
"My .com burned through $30 million in venture capital, and all I got was this
lousy T-shirt."
Rude T-shirts for a rude age: http://www.villaintees.com
Art, literature, shareware, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html
Richard Knoppow
Hypo should be clear. It may be slightly cloudy until it
cools but then should be clear. If it cloudy or has a yellow
color it means there is free sulfur in it from
decomposition.
Dektol is light straw colored when fresh. This is normal.
It should not be brown or any darker yellow. My bet is that
the powder was a bit brown before mixing.
While the Kodak packages are supposed to be impervious to
air or moisture in fact they are often not. I don't know
what exactly happens to them, perhaps they develop micro
cracks, but whatever it is they have a limited shelf life.
Solutions which are off a bit may still work but won't
work right.
In another part of this thread you say you are eighty
miles from a photo shop so I don't know what to advise other
than stocking up with fresh stuff.
I estimate the shelf life of the Kodak packets as around
two years. After that its dicey, they may remain good for
much long but it shouldn't be counted on.
--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dick...@ix.netcom.com
Mike King
acceptable on TV's "Leave It To Beaver " in the 1950's. I wasn't even
directed AT you. So here's the long form of Dan's perfectly acceptable
reply. And technically, it's blasphemy, not cursing ;) .
The D-76 MIGHT be good but you have only one chance to process film
correctly, I wouldn't risk it on my film--you may have already made up your
mind.
Fixer should be clear, not MILKY, when dissolved, if you follow the mixing
instructions.
Dektol should be clear to a very pale amber, about like Cardonnay wine or
less than half the color intensity of ginger ale (if you don't drink). It
has a faint odor (I liken it to wet cardboard) when good--smells more like a
wet dog with a hygiene problem when bad.
HCA should be good unless it has a sharp sulfur dioxide odor.
Most of the regular contributors to this group tend to be a little flip with
each other and as for bona fides--you'll find a cadre of regulars here that
are on this group all the time. Many are published writers, website
authors, former photo magazine editors, and/or corporate types that work for
some supplier and donate their time and expertise to this group. So thank
you Bill, Pat, Lloyd, Dan, John, Art, Ken, Bob, Greg et al. I know I missed
more than I listed.
Me? I'm just a duffer on this group, but I've been clipping articles for 25
years and have a pretty good filing system in my head, so I'm pretty good on
darkroom trivia, I do custom black and white processing and freelance
photography.
--
darkroommike
----------
"Eldritch" <Tiredo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3E90EB33...@hotmail.com...
Eldritch
>
> The D-76 MIGHT be good but you have only one chance to process film
> correctly, I wouldn't risk it on my film--you may have already made up your
> mind.
>
> Fixer should be clear, not MILKY, when dissolved, if you follow the mixing
> instructions.
>
>
Thanks. I found your post helpful.
Edd
Eldritch
> D-76 should be clear when mixed.
It was.
> Hypo should be clear. It may be slightly cloudy until it
> cools but then should be clear.
Cloudy right after mixing and still warm. Today, it's clear.
> Dektol is light straw colored when fresh. This is normal.
> It should not be brown or any darker yellow. My bet is that
> the powder was a bit brown before mixing.
You're correct. It's already down the drain.
> In another part of this thread you say you are eighty
> miles from a photo shop so I don't know what to advise other
> than stocking up with fresh stuff.
Right. I'll just have to bite the bullet and enjoy the drive. I'm
sure I'll have reason to go up that way in the foreseeable future. I
had a photo shoot with a friend over the weekend, but developing the
negatives will just have to wait a bit.
The D-76 is clear, but I'll probably dump it just to be safe. Wasting
a few sheets of paper is one thing, but ruining a roll of film is
another matter.
The Hypo mixed up cloudy, but has become clear, presumably because it's
had time to cool. I dropped a few small scraps of T-Max 100 in an ounce
of it and it took about 3.5 minutes to become "transparent." There
was still a purplish color to the film stock, but you could see through
it. The film scraps lost the purplish tint and became gray after
sitting in the hypo a few minutes longer. Is this a gauge that the hypo
is still potent? Or should it be tossed as well?
The Hypo Clearing Agent mixed up clear and with no strong odor. From
Mike King's post, I assume it's still useable.
I also have Kodak Indicator Stop bath, Edwal Hypo-Check, and Kodak
Photo-Flo 200 Solution which were all purchased about Sept, 1999. I'm
presuming those are still potent and useable.
I'm still a bit new at mixing up my own chemicals and judging when
they've gone bad, so this thread has been very helpful to me. I guess
I've been hoping there was something like Hypo-Chek that you could drop
in the various chemicals for a clear indication whether each was still
potent.
E
James Robinson
>
> Driving to the photo store to buy chemicals is an 80 mile
> round trip for me.
As an alternative, you might consider mail order. My local photo stores
carry very few chemicals, so mail order is a life line, and it would
save the hassle and cost of driving all that way. I've had good success
with darkroom chemicals from Adorama. They ship UPS out of New York,
and I typically get the package three days after I order it, so they
ship promptly.
Mike King
clearing agent is sodium thiosulfate and works slower that the rapid fixers
made from ammonium thiosulfate, if you haven't left on your trip yet pick up
some Kodak Rapid Fixer or equivalent. Use Rapid Fixer with film and Fixer
with paper. And stock up--I always have at least one unmixed unit of each
chemical I use on the shelf so I don't get caught short on the weekend.
Some things I'm not scared to stock up, for example, when I was in college
in 1976 I took a photo course, we all had to buy a 4 oz bottle of Photoflo,
all the other kids gave me their bottles when the class was over so I
haven't bought Photoflo since 1976. I also have a 50 pound drum of sodium
thiosulfate (given to me), 4-5 gallon packages of KHCA purchased at a
camera show for $1.00 each, half a case of Acu-1 film developer (50 cents a
can and tested before I used it), a gallon of Glacial Acetic Acid (given to
me, again) and four packages of Kodak Fixer purchased off eBay.
--
darkroommike
----------
"Eldritch" <Tiredo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3E924ECD...@hotmail.com...
Richard Knoppow
> Richard Knoppow wrote:
>
> > D-76 should be clear when mixed.
>
> It was.
>
> > Hypo should be clear. It may be slightly cloudy until
it
> > cools but then should be clear.
>
>
> Cloudy right after mixing and still warm. Today, it's
clear.
>
>
>
> > Dektol is light straw colored when fresh. This is
normal.
> > It should not be brown or any darker yellow. My bet is
that
> > the powder was a bit brown before mixing.
>
> You're correct. It's already down the drain.
>
>
>
> > In another part of this thread you say you are eighty
> > miles from a photo shop so I don't know what to advise
other
> > than stocking up with fresh stuff.
>
Someone suggested mail order. That may be a good idea for
you. The larger mail order places, B&H, Calumet, Freestyle,
are very reliable, have good prices and have a huge turnover
insuring that what they ship you is fresh stock.
>
> Right. I'll just have to bite the bullet and enjoy the
drive. I'm
> sure I'll have reason to go up that way in the foreseeable
future. I
> had a photo shoot with a friend over the weekend, but
developing the
> negatives will just have to wait a bit.
>
>
> The D-76 is clear, but I'll probably dump it just to be
safe. Wasting
> a few sheets of paper is one thing, but ruining a roll of
film is
> another matter.
>
You can test it with a scrap of film. It should darken the
film within about two minutes. D-76 is pretty rugged. If the
powder was white and the solution clear its most likely OK.
>
> The Hypo mixed up cloudy, but has become clear, presumably
because it's
> had time to cool. I dropped a few small scraps of T-Max
100 in an ounce
> of it and it took about 3.5 minutes to become
"transparent." There
> was still a purplish color to the film stock, but you
could see through
> it. The film scraps lost the purplish tint and became
gray after
> sitting in the hypo a few minutes longer. Is this a gauge
that the hypo
> is still potent? Or should it be tossed as well?
>
>
That sounds about right. T-Max and Tri-X fix slowly, which
is why rapid fixer is preferred for them. 3.5 minutes
clearing time is about right for T-Max is fresh fixer. It
should be fixed for about three times this time. Even with
extended fixing there may be a little residual color. Mostly
this will wash out. KHCA will remove it immediately.
The cloudiness of the fixer at first is partly because
some of the chemicals may not have fully dissolved but also
because there has been some air beaten into the water.
For longest solution life boil the water for about five
minutes and allow to stand until cool. Boiling will drive
off most dissolved gasses, including air plus it removes
some mineral material. Decant the cool water using a syphon
hose and try to get as little air into it as possible when
mixing. The sulfite in fixer and developer will absorb the
dissolved air but that leaves you with that much less
sulfite for other purposes.
> The Hypo Clearing Agent mixed up clear and with no strong
odor. From
> Mike King's post, I assume it's still useable.
>
Its probably OK. Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent is mostly
Sodium Sulfite, buffered with bisulfite plus a small amount
of EDTA, a sequestering agent.
The sulfite oxidizes to sulfate. Sulfate does no harm but
is not a very effective wash aid. KHCA ages mostly when in
liquid form. The life of the stock solution is only about
two months and the mixed solution perhaps 24 hours. Since it
doesn't turn color when oxidized there is no easy way to
tell.
> I also have Kodak Indicator Stop bath, Edwal Hypo-Check,
and Kodak
> Photo-Flo 200 Solution which were all purchased about
Sept, 1999. I'm
> presuming those are still potent and useable.
>
Photo Flo, and stop bath do not age. Eventually, an opened
bottle of Photo Flo may become infected with bacteria or
fungus but an unopened bottle has indefinite lifetime.
I am not sure about the Edwal Hypo Check. Its a solution
of Potassium Iodide with some preservative added. It will
give you a rough check on the fixing bath but a better test
is to measure the clearing time when fresh and measure it
again periodically. The rule of thumb is to replace the
fixer when the clearing time doubles but I think that is far
too long, probably an increse of no more than 50% is more
like it. Fixer does a better job and has a much higher
capacity when used in a two bath set up. I recommend this
even for small volume users.
>
> I'm still a bit new at mixing up my own chemicals and
judging when
> they've gone bad, so this thread has been very helpful to
me. I guess
> I've been hoping there was something like Hypo-Chek that
you could drop
> in the various chemicals for a clear indication whether
each was still
> potent.
>
Nope. While it is possible to determine the condition by a
chemical analysis there is no practical method for small
volume practical testing.
> E
Eldritch
>>The D-76 is clear, but I'll probably dump it just to be
> safe.
>>
>
> You can test it with a scrap of film. It should darken the
> film within about two minutes. D-76 is pretty rugged. If the
> powder was white and the solution clear its most likely OK.
A scrap of T-Max 100 did begin to darken within a minute and was
distinctly dark at 2 minutes. At four minutes, the film had turned a
flat black. Perhaps the D-76 is still good.
I shot a roll of T-Max specifically to practice my developing
techniques on, before attempting the pictures I wouldn't want to lose.
I think I'll try developing 1/2 or 1/3rd of the roll with this batch of
D-76. If the film develops okay, then I'm golden. Otherwise, I'll buy
new D-76.
Thanks,
E