Cold light vs. Color Head for Multigrade paper
SkyGzr
first one didnt work so well with multigrade paper. The second is built
specifically for multigrade, but it's really DIM. Stopping down often yields
very long exposure times.
I know that a color head can be used for VC paper. Are the characteristics of
the mixing chamber the same as a cold light source (in terms of grain and print
contrast)? Any specific recommendations? Anything else I ought to know about?
I'm sure someone out there has expereince and opinions.
Thanks. Kevin
Richard Knoppow
Most of the characteristics attributed to cold-light heads are true
of any highly diffuse source. Color heads with mixing chambers are
about as diffuse as you can get. They will have the same properties of
lowering contrast and making blemishes and grain less visible as a
cold light without the limited spectral output which makes cold light
heads a problem for VC printing.
Being able to match the mixing chamber of a color head to the size
of the format will result in shorter printing times for small format
negatives in comparison to a cold light head.
Note that for B&W silver image film (as contrasted to B&W
chromogenic film) the differnce in contrast between printing on a
diffusion source and a condenser source is about one paper grade. This
will undo some of the advantage in concealing blemishes since a
particular negative will have to be printed at about one paper grade
more contrast on a diffusion enlarger for the same contrast as it
prints on a condenser head. This increase in contrast will also pick
up the blemishes and grain.
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, Ca.
dick...@ix.netcom.com
James Meckley
>
> I have used two cold light heads on a Beseler 45M. Both were Zone VI. The
> first one didnt work so well with multigrade paper. The second is built
> specifically for multigrade, but it's really DIM. Stopping down often yields
> very long exposure times.
>
> I know that a color head can be used for VC paper. Are the characteristics of
> the mixing chamber the same as a cold light source (in terms of grain and print
> contrast)? Any specific recommendations? Anything else I ought to know about?
> I'm sure someone out there has expereince and opinions.
>
> Thanks. Kevin
Hi Kevin,
I had a Beseler 45M with two different Zone VI/Aristo cold light heads.
Not only did I find the cold lights difficult to use with VC papers,
but, despite claims to the contrary, I found their illumination to be
surprisingly uneven, especially toward the edges of a 4x5 negative
(150mm lens) and in the very center where the wire clip held the tube in
position. The "Johnston doughnut" is a very real effect, one which was
insoluble to this user.
I switched to a Saunders 4500 several years ago and am very pleased with
it; all problems solved. And yes, the effects of a cold light source
are very similar if not identical to a color head in terms of grain and
print contrast/tonal rendition.
Jim Meckley
Mark Rabiner
<jmec...@pegasus.cc.ucf.edu> wrote:
The "Johnston doughnut" ????
Mark Rabiner
Mark Rabiner
>
> sky...@aol.com (SkyGzr) wrote:
>
> >I have used two cold light heads on a Beseler 45M. Both were Zone VI. The
> >first one didnt work so well with multigrade paper. The second is built
> >specifically for multigrade, but it's really DIM. Stopping down often yields
> >very long exposure times.
> >
> >I know that a color head can be used for VC paper. Are the characteristics of
> >the mixing chamber the same as a cold light source (in terms of grain and print
> >contrast)? Any specific recommendations? Anything else I ought to know about?
> > I'm sure someone out there has expereince and opinions.
> >
> >Thanks. Kevin
>
> of any highly diffuse source. Color heads with mixing chambers are
> about as diffuse as you can get. They will have the same properties of
> lowering contrast and making blemishes and grain less visible as a
> cold light without the limited spectral output which makes cold light
> heads a problem for VC printing.
> Being able to match the mixing chamber of a color head to the size
> of the format will result in shorter printing times for small format
> negatives in comparison to a cold light head.
> Note that for B&W silver image film (as contrasted to B&W
> chromogenic film) the differnce in contrast between printing on a
> diffusion source and a condenser source is about one paper grade. This
> will undo some of the advantage in concealing blemishes since a
> particular negative will have to be printed at about one paper grade
> more contrast on a diffusion enlarger for the same contrast as it
> prints on a condenser head. This increase in contrast will also pick
> up the blemishes and grain.
> ---
> Richard Knoppow
I agree I don't think cold lights or diffusion hides anything.
And don't think they make for better separation in the higher tones that I could
tell. Or any other tones.
But diffusion sources like in color heads or The Ilford Multigrade source which
have a pice of white pleiglass between it and it's hotsourse and are inefficient
because of this.
They will tend to pop a neg almost as quick as a condenser head, the condenser
head being a darn efficient way of shooting light through a piece of film.
A Cold light fluorescent head will NOT pop your negative. That for me is the
main very important issue.
I've been thousands of prints having first prepoped my neg with condenser
sources it becomes automatic but excites my bursitis.
My VC Aristo cold light source takes those extra motions out of the process.
Mark Rabiner
And I don't think the top custom printers use glass carriers. Not from what I've read.
Frank Filippone
of grey paper above the tube ( Sheldon....)
I was told this was a suggestion by John Sexton to even out the light from
these CLH....... Don't know more.
I now have an Aristo VCL4500 thayt I am trying to calibrate and use.. Hot
spots? I don;t know.
Mark Rabiner.... I thought you had a VCL4500 as well... you split grade
print using 1 tube then the other..... I did not know I could do this......
I thought either 1 tube or BOTH tubes were on????? Could you please
comment?
More to the point, there are new tubes out there to "fix" the low light
level. Retrofit your CLH with a V54 Tube from Aristo,
Second interesting item in your post is about the Saunders 4500
Enlarger.....
I know a tiny bit about these, enough to know they are $$$ ( why I don't
know more......) and that they come with different heads.......illumination
sources.....
Which head do you get better results with?
Frank
Mark Rabiner
><Snip> , I am either printing with hard- or
> soft light full on, never a mixture of the two).
>
> All in all, it was a very cost-effective way to move into serious VC printing
> without having to completely retool my enlarging system. If/when I were
> to do it from scratch, I would be torn between the Zone VI enlarger which
> lets me go all the way up to 8x10 negs, or the convenience, size, and
> efficacy of the Saunders LPL4500 (which I would definitely get with the
> color head, not the VCC head...)
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Tim Daneliuk
> tun...@tundraware.com
I too am a split printer with my Aristo VC head!!! Are there many of us out
there? Split printing rules!!!
Mark Rabiner
Mark Rabiner
You flip to variator to OFF.
Then when the rocker switch is up it is on full blue, down it is on full green.
One switch from Blue to green. With a Beseler timer sitting perfectly on top it
is all done with a flip of the wrist as recommended by Alan Johnson over at Aristo.
I never had donut hot spots from any of my Aristo's.
Call there it is easy to Get Alan on the phone and they will answer all your questions.
I've been dealing with them for twenty years.
Mark Rabiner
Elton Pope-Lance
"Tim Daneliuk" <tun...@tundraware.com> wrote in message
news:38BDC000...@tundraware.com...
> SkyGzr wrote:
> >
> > I have used two cold light heads on a Beseler 45M. Both were Zone VI.
The
> > first one didnt work so well with multigrade paper. The second is built
> > specifically for multigrade, but it's really DIM. Stopping down often
yields
> > very long exposure times.
> >
> > I know that a color head can be used for VC paper. Are the
characteristics of
> > the mixing chamber the same as a cold light source (in terms of grain
and print
> > contrast)? Any specific recommendations? Anything else I ought to know
about?
> > I'm sure someone out there has expereince and opinions.
> >
> > Thanks. Kevin
>
> Others' comments here are quite appropriate, but there is another option -
> a VC cold light head. I use Zone VI with my ancient D-II (they have a
> version that fits the Beseler as well). For under $1000 you can save your
> investment in the chassis (of a fine enlarger, I might add), the carriers,
> and the lens boards and get an excellent printing tool. I am delighted
> with the head and have only two complaints, both of which I am easily
> able to work around:
>
> 1) The output is still dim compared with a condenser or color head. This
> is a non-issue until I start making 16x20s from 120 negs - the burn
times
> can get to be long on complex negatives.
>
> 2) I develop with pyro, which tends to further lower contrast a bit,
especially
> in the highlights (that's WHY you use pyro ;) - the Zone VI head
sometimes
> comes up a bit short in the hard light department and I have to extend
> hard light time more than I would like (I split print everything and
pretty
> much every part of most negatives - so, I am either printing with hard-
or
> soft light full on, never a mixture of the two).
>
> All in all, it was a very cost-effective way to move into serious VC
printing
> without having to completely retool my enlarging system. If/when I were
> to do it from scratch, I would be torn between the Zone VI enlarger which
> lets me go all the way up to 8x10 negs, or the convenience, size, and
> efficacy of the Saunders LPL4500 (which I would definitely get with the
> color head, not the VCC head...)
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> Tim Daneliuk
> tun...@tundraware.com
I too use and like the Zone IV VC head. I've recently started using it on
my venerable Beseler 45 MCRX and don't find the longer exposure times to be
a problem. Split printing is new and exciting (and very effective). I've
just finished printing for a show of 16x20 B/W landscapes (from 4x5 negs)
and, after quite a few years of doing mostly color commercial work, the
"black & white muse" has returned with a vengeance!
************************
Elton Pope-Lance
www.popelance.com
Mark Rabiner
>
> I have used two cold light heads on a Beseler 45M. Both were Zone VI. The
> first one didnt work so well with multigrade paper. The second is built
> specifically for multigrade, but it's really DIM. Stopping down often yields
> very long exposure times.
>
> I know that a color head can be used for VC paper. Are the characteristics of
> the mixing chamber the same as a cold light source (in terms of grain and print
> contrast)? Any specific recommendations? Anything else I ought to know about?
> I'm sure someone out there has expereince and opinions.
>
> Thanks. Kevin
I've heard this kind of stuff about the Zone VI.
But not about my Aristo. I"m pretty sure the one to use it the Aristo.
Mark Rabiner
Tim Daneliuk
>
> I have used two cold light heads on a Beseler 45M. Both were Zone VI. The
> first one didnt work so well with multigrade paper. The second is built
> specifically for multigrade, but it's really DIM. Stopping down often yields
> very long exposure times.
>
> I know that a color head can be used for VC paper. Are the characteristics of
> the mixing chamber the same as a cold light source (in terms of grain and print
> contrast)? Any specific recommendations? Anything else I ought to know about?
> I'm sure someone out there has expereince and opinions.
>
> Thanks. Kevin
Others' comments here are quite appropriate, but there is another option -