Photographer's Formulary TD-3 Developer
Gordon E. Sweeney
I am just now getting back into film processing after many years absence. I
have a special project inwhich I am using Kodak Technical Pan, and I have
been experimenting with TD-3 developer at varying dilutions, especially for
reducing contrasts in copying photographs.
The TD-3 gives a brown image which is a little hard for me to judge. Is
this a pyro-type formula? Does anyone have any idea of its chemistry?
Thank you.
Gordon Sweeney
SPECTRUM
It's a glycin based formula. Glycin is know to produce warm toned images
on warm toned papers. I'm sure that the image that you are viewing has a
very fine grain to it and that's why it also has a very warm tone. I found
mine to be somewhat greenish when I used TD-3.
--
Regards,
John S. Douglas
Spectrum Photographic Inc.
http://www.spectrumphoto.com SPEC...@spectrumphoto.com
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Gordon E. Sweeney <gswe...@idcomm.com> wrote in article
<01bd2c8c$a735b3c0$85240dd0@gsweeney>...
Richard Knoppow
"Gordon E. Sweeney" <gswe...@idcomm.com> wrote:
>I am just now getting back into film processing after many years absence. I
>have a special project inwhich I am using Kodak Technical Pan, and I have
>been experimenting with TD-3 developer at varying dilutions, especially for
>reducing contrasts in copying photographs.
>
>The TD-3 gives a brown image which is a little hard for me to judge. Is
>this a pyro-type formula? Does anyone have any idea of its chemistry?
>
>Thank you.
>
>Gordon Sweeney
I don't know whats in TD-3 but very fine-grain developers often
produce brownish images simply because very fine grain silver tends to
look that color. If it has any effect at all it will be to make the
printing contrast very slightly higher than the visible contrast.
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, Ca.
dick...@ix.netcom.com
William Laut
Richard Knoppow (dick...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
I've been watching this thread, and trying to find my PF catalogue so I
can look up TD-3, but cannot find it for some reason.
It might be that TD-3 is a Catechol-based developer. If so, the brown
color is coming from the developing agent.
Bill
Richard Knoppow
wl...@alpha.delta.edu (William Laut) wrote:
Photographers Formulary has an on-line catalogue at:
http://www.montana.com/formulary/index.html
It does not give details as to ingredients. There does not seem to
be any MSDS data on this site and a search of the Hazard.com site
didn't come up with anything.
Someone posted earlier that they thought this was a Glycin-based
developer. Possible. Glycin was a widely used agent for fine-grain
developers in the 1930's, both alone and in combination with
p-phenylenediamine as in the Sease formulas of DuPont.
Catechol or Pyrochatichin as it is also known is a tanning developer.
If TD-3 employes it there may be a slight embossed look to the surface
of the emulsion side of the film when looked at with reflected light.
SPECTRUM
It is in fact a glycin based formula. I spoke with Bill Tropp about his
formulation and while he certainly wasn't going to give away the whole list
of ingrediants, he did state that glycin was the sole developing
ingrediant.
This developer film combination is really good. I found it to deliver
about 32 ASA and incredible sharpness and detail( even for Tech Pan !). The
only reason I don't use it is that is that I formulated my Spectrum 1
specificly for TP and it's a whole lot cheaper than TD-3.
--
Regards,
John & Karen Douglas
Spectrum Photographic Inc.
http://www.spectrumphoto.com SPEC...@spectrumphoto.com
MARRIED OCTOBER 29TH '97
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Richard Knoppow <dick...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in article
<34d1b117....@nntp.netcruiser>...
Bruce Lilly
Richard Knoppow wrote:
>
[...]
> brownish images
[...]
> If it has any effect at all it will be to make the
> printing contrast very slightly higher than the visible contrast.
That may indeed happen with graded papers, though the effect of printing
colored images on variable contrast papers can be quite different.
"Brownish" images block blue light more than neutral images (like a yellow
filter), hence the higher effective contrast when printing on blue (only)
sensitive graded paper. With variable contrast papers, the same negative
may give highly unsatisfactory results, as the yellow image cast, which
varies in intensity with density, usually causes a reduction in print
contrast corresponding to the more dense parts of the negative; the
highlights and even mid-tones "block up" even though there is plenty of
detail and contrast in the negative. Complicating matters, some negatives
also have a color cast to the base, which may make judging the image color
difficult by eye.
Tech Pan (developed in POTA, Technidol LC, or dilute ID-68) usually has a
yellow image cast and a cyan base color (due to the dye in the Estar-AH
base). Soaking the negative in a sodium carbonate solution can reduce the
coloration of the base dye, and toning the image in selenium toner can
render the image more neutral (see my posting earlier this month for
details) with some increase in contrast.
Other films may exhibit similar problems; for example Ilford XP-1 had a
green image on a magenta base. The base color could be removed by extended
(30 minutes) washing, but the image color remained -- with the same effect
noted above with variable contrast papers. Ilford documents, however,
didn't mention this problem; in fact Ilford recommended printing XP-1 on
Multigrade paper! I could never achieve acceptable prints from XP-1 (or
untoned Tech Pan) on any variable contrast paper, though XP-1 printed fine
on graded papers.
SPECTRUM
Bruce,
Where does this image tone/color exhibit itself in Tech Pan ? I would
estimate that I've developed in the area of 2000 feet of Tech Pan and never
seen any image color aother than when I used the TD-3 developer which uses
glycin, a known warm tone/fine grain producing developer.
And while i have printed negatives developed in PMK, TD-3 as well as other
developers, I've never known image color to matter so much as it could make
a visible difference in the print. Even the negatives of T400CN which uses
C-41 to produce a warm toned chromogenic image is hardly cause for concern
regarding image color and final print contrast.
--
Regards,
John & Karen Douglas
Spectrum Photographic Inc.
http://www.spectrumphoto.com SPEC...@spectrumphoto.com
MARRIED OCTOBER 29TH '97
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Bruce Lilly <bli...@erols.com> wrote in article
<34D2B66D...@erols.com>...
Bruce Lilly
SPECTRUM wrote:
>
> Where does this image tone/color exhibit itself in Tech Pan ?
Following density measurements indicated N are measured with #106 filter, C
with #92, M with #93, Y with #94.
Measurements made on Tech Pan 2415 processed in Technidol LC indicate base
+ fog density 0.18C 0.15M 0.14Y (i.e. a cyan base color). At a density
0.48N, the densities are 0.51C 0.47M and 0.45Y (still cyan, but note that
yellow density is lowest). At 1.00N, they are 1.04C 0.99M and 0.98Y
(slightly cyan, but yellow and magenta nearly balanced). At 1.68N,
densities are 1.72C 1.71M and 1.76Y (now yellow density is highest).
As far as variable contrast B&W paper is concerned, the cyan densities can
be ignored. Shadow areas have an effective "filtration" due to image +
base color of 3M, midtones nearly neutral at 1M, with highlights at 5Y;
total change from shadows to highlights is 8 CC units (0.08 density change)
from magenta to yellow (frequently more of a difference with other
developers, difference reducible by using dilute selenium toner on the
negative).
> And while i have printed negatives developed in PMK, TD-3 as well as other
> developers, I've never known image color to matter so much as it could make
> a visible difference in the print.
The combination of loss of local contrast in the negative due to the
shoulder of the characteristic curve (and Tech Pan has a very short
straight line section with a long shoulder), the effective yellow highlight
filtration due to negative image color, and the toe of the paper
characteristic curve combine to produce high losses of highlight detail
when printing Tech Pan on variable contrast paper. I have seen noticeably
better highlight detail when such negatives are printed on graded paper.
> Even the negatives of T400CN which uses
> C-41 to produce a warm toned chromogenic image is hardly cause for concern
> regarding image color and final print contrast.
Unless B&W images are printed on color print paper (which is one way to get
a print with T400CN), the negative image color will have negligible effect
on the print image color. Overall contrast may well change when printing
on variable contrast vs. graded B&W papers due to the former's sensitivity
to green wavelengths, however it is still possible to obtain a print with
deep blacks and white highlights by selecting the paper grade or light
source filtration. But when the *relative* densities of the negative to
blue and to green wavelengths changes over the scale of the image, there
may well be a loss of *local* contrast (i.e. detail) at one end of the
range (usually in the highlights) when printing on variable contrast
papers. Note that an overall coloration (same relative densities) will
only affect the choice of filtration required to fit the negative to the
variable contrast paper.
William Laut
Bruce Lilly (bli...@erols.com) wrote:
: SPECTRUM wrote:
: >
: > Where does this image tone/color exhibit itself in Tech Pan ?
:
: Following density measurements indicated N are measured with #106 filter, C
: with #92, M with #93, Y with #94.
: Measurements made on Tech Pan 2415 processed in Technidol LC indicate base
: 0.48N, the densities are 0.51C 0.47M and 0.45Y (still cyan, but note that
: yellow density is lowest). At 1.00N, they are 1.04C 0.99M and 0.98Y
: (slightly cyan, but yellow and magenta nearly balanced). At 1.68N,
: densities are 1.72C 1.71M and 1.76Y (now yellow density is highest).
:
: As far as variable contrast B&W paper is concerned, the cyan densities can
: base color of 3M, midtones nearly neutral at 1M, with highlights at 5Y;
: total change from shadows to highlights is 8 CC units (0.08 density change)
: from magenta to yellow (frequently more of a difference with other
: developers, difference reducible by using dilute selenium toner on the
: negative).
I've also noticed something similar when using POTA (or Delagi #8
equivalents) to develop TP. There is a greenish cast over the negative
which can influence VC printing.
In addition to toning the negatives, another way around this is to use a
low-energy Metol-only developer, as this will cause the TP grain to
develop as _black_ with no other color shifting. This method I would
prefer to avoid the contrast increase that toning incurs.
:
: > And while i have printed negatives developed in PMK, TD-3 as well as other
: > developers, I've never known image color to matter so much as it could make
: > a visible difference in the print.
:
: The combination of loss of local contrast in the negative due to the
: shoulder of the characteristic curve (and Tech Pan has a very short
: straight line section with a long shoulder), the effective yellow highlight
: filtration due to negative image color, and the toe of the paper
: characteristic curve combine to produce high losses of highlight detail
: when printing Tech Pan on variable contrast paper. I have seen noticeably
: better highlight detail when such negatives are printed on graded paper.
:
I disagree, John. The effect of Pyro-staining are _profound_ on VC paper,
particularly on Polycontrast III RC. It is a principal reason that I
almost exclusively shoot PX and develop in PMK.
:
: > Even the negatives of T400CN which uses
: > C-41 to produce a warm toned chromogenic image is hardly cause for concern
: > regarding image color and final print contrast.
:
: Unless B&W images are printed on color print paper (which is one way to get
: a print with T400CN), the negative image color will have negligible effect
: on the print image color. Overall contrast may well change when printing
: on variable contrast vs. graded B&W papers due to the former's sensitivity
: to green wavelengths, however it is still possible to obtain a print with
: deep blacks and white highlights by selecting the paper grade or light
: source filtration. But when the *relative* densities of the negative to
: blue and to green wavelengths changes over the scale of the image, there
: may well be a loss of *local* contrast (i.e. detail) at one end of the
: range (usually in the highlights) when printing on variable contrast
: papers. Note that an overall coloration (same relative densities) will
: only affect the choice of filtration required to fit the negative to the
: variable contrast paper.
Agreed.