C-22 Process
observa...@gmail.com
I gained 30 rolls of Kodakolor X negative film, and use some rolls in
my Rolleiflex, but this film are developed in the C-22 process, and i
have no idea how to develop.
Somebody knows some alternative developing process for this film?
Thanks
Scott Schuckert
<observa...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm going to hope/assume this 30-year-old film has been frozen or
refrigerated, and that you're not planning on shooting any more of it.
While it probably possible to do some sort of B&W development at home,
you're far better off with one of the few remaining labs that can do
C-22. For example, try:
Ken Hart
<observa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1184617430.8...@m3g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
observa...@gmail.com
> <observador1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Tanks for the help
but I intend to develop the negative in my darkroom.
I already elaborate an alternative process for the ECN-2 (cinema),
and I go to try using fenidone developers (D-76) and Metol (ID-11)
If i have no sucess in none of these processes, I go to try to use
LOOR developer from Kodak, being varied the temperatures and times
So.....
Lets have some fun in the darkroom
Scott Schuckert
<observa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Tanks for the help
>
> but I intend to develop the negative in my darkroom.
> I already elaborate an alternative process for the ECN-2 (cinema),
> and I go to try using fenidone developers (D-76) and Metol (ID-11)
> If i have no sucess in none of these processes, I go to try to use
> LOOR developer from Kodak, being varied the temperatures and times
>
> So.....
>
> Lets have some fun in the darkroom
Good luck to you.
I can't help but be curious; what is the purpose of this
experimentation? It can't be good pictures, as you have no chance of
that; it can't be to develop a useful darkroom technique, as there
won't be anymore Kodacolor X.
Francis A. Miniter
In the late 1990s, I think I published the formulae and process in this
newsgroup. I just now tried to retrieve it, but Google said that the archive is
temporarily not available.
If you cannot retrieve it from the archives, send me an email and I will scan
the page from the British Journal of Photography, whence I got it, and email you
the formulae and process.
Francis A. Miniter
observa...@gmail.com
> In article <1184676410.161278.118...@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Scott
The purpouse is only experimental.
I have no idea on what waiting of the developing.
My hobby is to buy lots of old films to "make myself" dead processes,
like C-22 and ECN-2
Tanks
observa...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi Francis
If you have the formulae, i will try to make it at home.
Maybe the old reagents have some difficult to find, but i can study
and make some adaptations.
I´ll look at the archives.
Tanks a lot
Richard Knoppow
<observa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1184793819.9...@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
Hi Francis
Tanks a lot
A citation I found for substitute formulas is The 1965
BJP Annual pages 263-264. Some of the reagents, in
particular the color developing agents, may not be available
now. The British Journal Almanack is not too difficult to
find, larger library systems will have it. I did not search
for on-line editions but try the new Google books search.
BTW, D-76 is _not_ a Phenidone developer, its Metol and
Hydroquinone.
In general, its possible to process older color films to
B&W silver negatives. They will have a "stain" because the
remaining color couplers are themselves colored, a way of
producing an automatic color correction mask. The dye can be
bleached out but once you do that the negatives can never be
redeveloped for color.
B&W development can be done in any standard B&W developer
but you will have to experiment to find the best times.
--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
dick...@ix.netcom.com
Francis A. Miniter
FORMULAE
Developer (final pH 10.5 to 10.6)
Benzyl Alcohol 8.5 ml
Sodium Metaborate (Kodalk) 35.0 g
Trisodium Phosphate, crystalline 25.0 g
Sodium Sulfite, anhydrous 2.5 g
Potassium Bromide 1.5 g
Potassium Iodide 0.006 g
CD3 7.8 g
Water to make 1000 ml.
CD3 is available from Artcraft Chemicals, among other places.
Stop Bath (final pH of 4.3 to 4.7)
Glacial Acetic Acid 20.0 ml
Sodium Sulfite, anhydrous 10.0 g
Water to make 1000 ml
Hardener (final pH of 10.4 to 10.8)
Formalin (35-40% solution) 20.0 ml
Sodium Carbonate, anhydrous 10.0 g
Water to make 1000 ml.
Note: Formalin is hard to dissolve and requires extended heating to get even an
18% solution. Purchase of formaldehyde solution and recomputation of required
amount is recommended.
Bleach (pH 6.6 to 7.0) NOTE: E3/E4 Bleach may be substituted and acts faster
Potassium Nitrate, crystalline 25.0 g
Potassium Ferricyanide 20.0 g
Potassium Bromide 8.0 g
Boric Acid 5.0 g
Borax, crystalline 1.0 g
Water to make 1000 ml
Fixer (pH 4.4 to 4.6)
Ammonium Thiosulfate, crystalline 120 g
Potassium Metabisulfite 20 g
Water to make 1000 ml
Keeping Time:
Developer with CD3 two weeks
Developer w/o CD3 6 months
PROCESS
Color Developer 14 min. @ 75.0 F +/- 0.5 degrees
(optional 20 sec. rinse on way to stop bath)
Stop Bath 4 min @ 68 - 75 F
Hardener 4 min @ 68 - 75 F
Normal Lighting may be resumed.
Wash 4 min @ 68 - 75 F
Fixer 8 min @ 68 - 75 F
Final Wash 8 min @ 68 - 75 F
Working Capacities
Developer, Stop Bath 300 sq. in. per liter
Hardener, Bleach, Fixer 600 sq. in. per liter
Agitate first 15 seconds then 5 seconds per minute
Contrast is varied by raising or lowering KBr in developer.
If developed separately and sequentially, subsequent roll should get additional
30 seconds each.
Francis A. Miniter
observa...@gmail.com
> <observador1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks Richard
I´ll try to develop using B&W chemicals in this weekend. I post here
the results.
Its an experience, and these informations maybe useful for someone
About D-76.
In Brasil, we only receive de Kodak D-76 in bags for 3.6 liters, and
the formulation uses Phenidone (in portuguese FENIDONA (1-Fenil-3-
Pirazolidona) ) and Hidroquinone
Metol are proibited in Brasil.
observa...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hi Francis
Thanks a lot.
I will try to formulate this developer.
The CD3 agent i´ll try to buy online and find a way to send to Brasil.
Thanks again
Richard Knoppow
<observa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1184931555.4...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
Thanks Richard
Very interesting. The change would make Brazilian D-76
similar to Ilford Microphen. I will see if I can find the
Brazilian MSDS somewhere.
--
---
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA
Rod Smith
observa...@gmail.com writes:
>
> The purpouse is only experimental.
> I have no idea on what waiting of the developing.
> My hobby is to buy lots of old films to "make myself" dead processes,
> like C-22 and ECN-2
Although C-22 can reasonably be described as a "dead" process, it being
30+ years since it was replaced by C-41, ECN-2 is current. It's still used
by modern motion picture films. If you're interested in experimenting with
it, check this APUG post:
http://www.apug.org/forums/forum216/37994-process-ecn-2-pictorial-use.html
That post includes a set of formulas for ECN-2 chemistry along with
directions for use. You could conceivably find some good deals on "short
ends" -- unused bits of motion picture films that are too short to be of
interest to movie studios but long enough to be cut into rolls for use in
35mm still cameras. Back in the 1970s and 1980s, several outfits in the US
bought up such film and resold it to still photographers, but AFAIK they
all switched to C-41 films in the early 1990s. My own experience is that
C-41 films are superior for still photography, presumably because of the
contrast issues mentioned in the discussions area of the link I presented.
Still, if you want to experiment with unusual processes, this one might be
worth trying. You'll also be able to find in-date ECN-2 film -- a claim
that can't be made for C-22 film any more!
--
Rod Smith, rods...@rodsbooks.com
http://www.rodsbooks.com
Author of books on Linux, FreeBSD, and networking
David Nebenzahl
> [...] Back in the 1970s and 1980s, several outfits in the US
> bought up such film and resold it to still photographers, but AFAIK they
> all switched to C-41 films in the early 1990s.
You're talking about such outfits as Seattle Filmworks, correct? I
always wondered what they were selling.
Geoffrey S. Mendelson
> You're talking about such outfits as Seattle Filmworks, correct? I
> always wondered what they were selling.
It started out as short ends of movie film. They used it because it
was cheap. It could only be processed by them because it had a
extra layer (I think it was an antireflection coating) that turned
normal developers into a black sludge.
The companies that normally processed it were not set up for short
(35mm still camera) rolls, and so if you bought it, you had to
send it back.
On a historic note, at the time (early 1970's) they started, Dale Labs,
which was the vendor I prefered, was one of the first to use a system that
measured the exposure and color balance of the first 4 exposures
on a roll and averaged the results.
In modern terms where a minilab does lowres digitzing and complex
analysis of each negative before printing it does not seem like much.
At the time it was a huge step forward from no measurment at all, or
measuring the first frame which was often the inside of a camera case,
or someone's shoes. :-)
I assume that they went to C-41 film because the cost of the film became
such a small part of their total package that buying short ends and
running special equipment was no longer worth it.
Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel g...@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/
UC
The film is at least 30 years old. Throw it away.
David Nebenzahl
This respondent's knowledge of film and photography are at least 35
years old; ignore what he says.
Rod Smith
Yes, Seattle FilmWorks (now known as PhotoWorks), Dale Labs, Signature
Color, and at least one or two others all did this. Most of them were
pretty up-front about what sort of film they were using. To the best of my
knowledge, none of them deliver ECN-2 film any more.
Francis A. Miniter
I have successfully developed 30+ yr old C-22 film that was stored in a hot
attic for at least 20 of those years. And Film Rescue uses more refined
techniques than I did.
Francis A. Miniter
UC
wrote:
WHY bother with 30-year old film?
Francis A. Miniter
To find out what was on the film? You have to have a sense of adventure! Maybe
it shows Gerald Ford's golf ball hitting a spectator.
Francis A. Miniter
observa...@gmail.com
No way.
The adventure are in the rescue of old processes.
observa...@gmail.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Talking about my tests (using my poor english)
1- Using D-76 Developer - I can see shadows, but have a heavy fog. I
try to use the E-6 and C41 Bleach... They remove de emulsion
2- Usind ID-11 - Nothing....
3- Using C-41 Developer in 37.8º C - Remove the emulsion
I will try again, using C41 developer in 25ºC
.....5 rolls destroyed, have only more 25
Talking about chemicals
The brutal difference between Our coutries is the facility to find
some products.
The CD-3 Is impossible to find in Brasil, and Metol too
In all of my tests, i need to look hard and find a way to locate and
buy the reagents. Sometimes i find big problems
In these weekend i will make more tests, and post the results here
Geoffrey S. Mendelson
> The adventure are in the rescue of old processes.
I fear that we are all doing that now. We just have not realized it.
In a few years it will be down to Freestyle and PhotoImpex.
I can't speak for anyone, but I expect that as product lines
and demand shrinks, the stores that carry other products
will have less and less room for film, paper and chemicals.
Note that I did not say they would disappear completely,
just that they will only be carried by specialty shops.
Richard Knoppow
"Rod Smith" <rods...@nessus.rodsbooks.com> wrote in message
news:27tin4-...@speaker.rodsbooks.com...
The "short ends" could actually be quite a bit of film.
Producers commonly "bank" film, that is, buy a lot of film
with the same lot number to insure uniformity and the
ability to intercut without mismatches. Kodak claims their
consistency is good enough so this is not necessary any
longer but I think its still a practice. In any case, once
photography is finished the left over film becomes a
liability and is sold off. For many years there have been
dealers who specialized in buying up this left over film and
selling it to small producers, amateurs, or cutting it up
for still cameras.
For a long time most motion picture color film, at least
Kodak film, had an anti-halation and anti-static backing
called Rem-Jet. This backing was removed in the automatic
processing machines by a jets of hot water sprayed onto the
film before it entered the development section. When these
films are developed in a normal "one hour" machine on in a
home processing tank the backing comes off during processing
leaving a hard to remove gummy black residue all over the
machine. This backing is no longer used on most current
motion picture stock although its still found on Kodachrome.
Еру Вфкл Щту
> I gained 30 rolls of Kodakolor X negative film, and use some rolls in my
> Rolleiflex, but this film are developed in the C-22 process, and i have
> no idea how to develop.
> Somebody knows some alternative developing process for this film?
>
> Thanks
高
фкшуд зкщсуыыщк
Michael
>
> I gained 30 rolls of Kodakolor X negative film, and use some rolls in
> my Rolleiflex, but this film are developed in the C-22 process, and i
> have no idea how to develop.
> Somebody knows some alternative developing process for this film?
>
> Thanks
You can get it processed at Rocky Mountain Film labs:
http://www.rockymountainfilm.com/
Michael