VC Paper Recommendation/Cold Light
Drew P. Griffin
head? My partner and I are testing a cold light system now, and while
realizing these heads are great for printing on graded fiber papers, we
still need the ability to print contact prints, 8x10 stats, etc. Agfa
doesn't recommend their papers for use with cold light, and Ilford
Multigrade III says you can use it with sime yellow filtration. Any
others?
Thanks for your help.
Drew
--
****************************
dr...@cadence.com
cary, north carolina
****************************
John Sparks
>Can anyone recommend a VC paper suitable for printing with a cold light
>head? My partner and I are testing a cold light system now, and while
>realizing these heads are great for printing on graded fiber papers, we
>still need the ability to print contact prints, 8x10 stats, etc. Agfa
>doesn't recommend their papers for use with cold light, and Ilford
>Multigrade III says you can use it with sime yellow filtration. Any
>others?
I've been playing around with VC papers and a cold light head lately. I
think you can use any VC paper with a cold light, but you will have some
problems. The exposures will not be anywhere close to constant with
filter changes. The steps between filters will not be anywhere close
to constant either. Using a standard filter set will give you lots
of choices on the high contrast end but not on the low contrast end.
I can't remember the exact details of my tests with a step tablet (I'll
have to look up the details). I was using an Aristo W55 tube, Multigrade
III Deluxe RC paper and a Multigrade filter set (one without the #00
filter). I printed a step tablet with each Multigrade filter and also
printed grades 2 through 5 Seagull graded paper (fiber based). If I'm
remembering right, the #0 filter was between the grade 2 and grade 3
Seagull, the #0.5 filter matched Seagull #3, a #1.5 filter matched
Seagull #4 and a #2.5 matched Seagull #5. The #3.5 filter was about a
half grade contrastier than Seagull #5 and the #5 filter was maybe 1/4
grade contrastier than that. From what I've read, the #00 filter with
a W55 tube is a true grade 0, but there is a huge gap between that and
a #0 filter. The author (Howard Bond) recommended using the #0 filter
with 20Y and 40Y CC (below the lens) or CP (above the negative) filters
These give two aproximately equal steps between the #0 alone and the
#00 alone. So a useful set of Multigrade filters with my cold light
would be the following in increasing contrast in aproximate 1/2 grade
steps (except for 1/4 grade step from a #3.5 to a #5 filter and possibly
2/3 grade steps between the #00 and the #0 filters, but that's a guess
I haven't tested it as I don't have the filters yet):
#00, #0+40Y, #0+20Y, #0, #1/2, #1, #1.5, #2.5, #3.5, #5
Notice that the step from #1 filter to #1.5 filter is about 1/2 grade
as is the step from #1.5 to #2.5 even though the filter numbers say
it should be a full grade step. I haven't worked out a table showing
the exposure changes required when changing filters yet, but they
varied from about 1/6 stop to over 1/2 stop between filter changes in the
above sequence. If your cold light head is a different color than the
W55 tube (most are bluer lights than this), you will get different
results. From using various brands of VC paper with other light sources,
I'd expect about the same response from Afga, Kodak, Seagull and others
though the highest and lowest contrasts available and probably the steps
between filters will undoubtedly be different. Any should be usable.
John Sparks
John Bray
: head? My partner and I are testing a cold light system now, and while
: realizing these heads are great for printing on graded fiber papers, we
: still need the ability to print contact prints, 8x10 stats, etc. Agfa
: doesn't recommend their papers for use with cold light, and Ilford
: Multigrade III says you can use it with sime yellow filtration. Any
: others?
i've used oriental, ilford, and zone vi's brilliant vc papers for some
time with cold light sources. i don't think i've ever used agfa vc up to
this point at least.
when i had a single tube head, i bought a sheet of cc 40y filter and put it
in the head itself, on top of the diffuser so's it doesn't have to be in the
light path. finding squares of gel filters big enough is about impossible --
the head i was using was about 6 1/2 or so inches across. kodak makes a large
sheet of gel -- i totally disremember the size (perhaps about 12x16 inches or
so? although i think it's in cm.) -- from which you can cut several such pieces.
seems to me the sheet was about US$40 or so. BUT the material is NOT cc, it's
cP material -- not suitable for use in the light path. i used a below the
lens filter for a while, but it was a drag trying to keep the dust off it,
what with it being exposed all the time, and me not being a great hosekeeper.
so the gel-in-the-head was a lower maintenance way for me to go, and i get
much better use from my vocal cords now -- not so much shreaking in rage. :-)
my impression is that one can do almost anything one wants with that setup.
but the grades appear to not be quite what one gets with an incandescent
light source.
--
john bray - jb...@spd.dsccc.com *or* kb6ql on 15m.
Life is what happens to you when you're busy making other plans - John Lennon.
can't sail? can't make pictures? what else is there? - john bray
Michael Gudzinowicz
Drew P. Griffin <dr...@cadence.com> wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a VC paper suitable for printing with a
> cold light head? My partner and I are testing a cold light
> system now, and while realizing these heads are great for
> printing on graded fiber papers, we still need the ability to
> print contact prints, 8x10 stats, etc. Agfa doesn't recommend
> their papers for use with cold light, and Ilford Multigrade
> III says you can use it with sime yellow filtration. Any
> others?
amounts of blue and green light exposure of the high and low
contrast components of the emulsion. A cold light usually
contributes too much blue on a relative basis, and a 40CP Y
filter is required to balance the source. You can vary the
amount of yellow, until your G2 filter and yellow pack matches
a graded paper's contrast (grade 2).
Alternatively, you can run an exposure strip for high values
using a green separation filter. Pick the exposure which gives
an appropriate zone 8 value (darkest areas will be gray). Run
a second test strip. Give the entire strip the green low
contrast exposure judged best (above). Next, change the filter
to a blue separation filter, and do a test strip for the low
values (which includes the green exposure). For a print, give
a green exposure using the best high value time, and the blue
exposure which gives proper low value rendition.
--
Mike in RI / Internet: ab...@osfn.rhilinet.gov
michael.g...@enest.com
Pete Bergstrom
> seems to me the sheet was about US$40 or so. BUT the material is NOT cc, it's
> cP material -- not suitable for use in the light path. i used a below the
> lens filter for a while, but it was a drag trying to keep the dust off it,
> what with it being exposed all the time, and me not being a great hosekeeper.
> so the gel-in-the-head was a lower maintenance way for me to go, and i get
> much better use from my vocal cords now -- not so much shreaking in rage. :-)
Did you ever try mounting a CC filter on the lens itself? (E.g., put a
B+W or Heliopan CC40Y or CC40G filter on the lens.)
This is what has been recommended to me to use an Aristo-derived
(e.g., Zone VI) head with VC paper. I haven't tried it yet - still
waiting to get a metrolux timer before I go to cold light.
Pete
Brian Lewis
>Can anyone recommend a VC paper suitable for printing with a cold light
>head? My partner and I are testing a cold light system now, and while
>realizing these heads are great for printing on graded fiber papers, we
>still need the ability to print contact prints, 8x10 stats, etc. Agfa
>doesn't recommend their papers for use with cold light, and Ilford
>Multigrade III says you can use it with sime yellow filtration. Any
>others?
>
I used to print Ilford Multigrade III with a cold light. I needed to use a 40Y filter,
or everything came out way too contrasty.
What I disliked most about it was that it was non-linear. You'd change from one
contrast grade to another, and the paper didn't respond the same way. I can't think
of a real good way to explain it.
I was able to get good prints with it, but if you're used to printing with an
incandescent bulb (or the Ilford 500MG light head), the cold light with VC will
take some getting used to.
Brian
Roy C. Zartarian
light question and offered two approaches. One involves the use of Rosco
gels above the negative. This is based on the principle of adding, rather
than subtracting, color for the green/blue balance. The second involving
one exposure with a deep green and a rexeposure with a blue filter is
described in this thread.
I've used both appraoches and find that they solve the problem I had been
encountering with lower values on vc paper under the cold light with
standard variable contrast filters. The papers I use are Ilford's
Multigrade III and now IV which IMHO is fantastic stuff and Oriental's VC
FB. The two-filter approach is time consuming but does allow for a lot of
control on "fine" prints.
If there's interest, I'll hunt up the reference to the _View Camera_
article and post it.
Incidentally, a voltage stabilizer is almost a mandatory accessory for a
cold light head. The fluorescent tube is really sensitive to electrical
fluctuations which can have a bad effect on consistency in exposure times
for multiple prints of the same negative.
Roy Zartarian
Michael Gudzinowicz
Roy C. Zartarian <roy...@connix.com> wrote:
> _View Camera_ magazine about 2 years ago had an article on the
> vc/cold light question and offered two approaches. One
> involves the use of Rosco gels above the negative. This is
> based on the principle of adding, rather than subtracting,
> color for the green/blue balance. The second involving one
> exposure with a deep green and a rexeposure with a blue filter
> is described in this thread.
(edit)
>If there's interest, I'll hunt up the reference to the _View Camera_
>article and post it.
Roy suggested the use of Rosco filters above the negative,
which I left out of an earlier reply. The filter
recommendations are given below, from one of my "old" replies.
1. Use a green color separation gel (58) below the lens, and
do a test strip for high values. Give a second test strip the
chosen high value exposure with the green filter, replace the
filter with a blue separation filter (47B), and vary the blue
exposure, reading the low values (note: the second strip has
the chosen green exposure recorded on it). Next do a test
print using the selected green exposure for high values,
followed by the blue exposure to set the low values.
Essentially, the result is "stepless" VC printing, and it
compensates for the excessive blue output of a cold light head
compared to tungsten, so a 40CP yellow filter is not needed to
shift the cold light spectra to resemble that of tungsten, for
which VC filters are designed.
2. Rosco is a company which sells lighting gels, and 20x24"
sheets ($5.95 US) can be purchased through Calumet in the US
(1-800-calumet; 890 Supreme Drive, Bensenville, IL 60106 USA).
The above-lens lighting gels corresponding to the 47B blue and
58 green separation filters are the 68 Sky Blue and 389 Chroma
Green. _If_ they have a Tough Plusyellow, it might correspond
to a +30cc yellow which could be used to balance the head. I
don't have Rosco's catalog... ask for a 30 or 40 CC Y.
3. If you don't want to do 2 filter double exposure
printing, a set of VC gels may be made from additive and
subtractive filters. From low to high contrast, the following
Rosco filters may be used: 3107 Tough Yellow Y-1; 389 Chroma
Green; 3304 Tough Plusgreen 30G; 3315 Tough Half Plusgreen
15G; 3313 Tough Half Minusgreen 15M; 3308 Tough Minusgreen 30M
or Roscolux 37 30M; 3202 Full Blue 80A; and 68 Sky Blue.
The filter suggestions are from an article in the Jan 1993
issue of ViewCamera written by Joseph Englander. ViewCamera's
address for back issues is 2774 Harkness Street, Sacramento,
CA 95818 USA (916-441-2557).
Jeffrey D. Fass
filter, high and low values separately. No big printing speed hits. A pain
sometimes, but predictable.
Jeffrey
*****************************
jf...@pipeline.com
Compuserve 70303,556
*****************************
PAPAURELIS, JONAS
I use an Aristo head with the 55 bulb (if memory serves me correctly, its
been awhile since I've bought this most worthwhile piece) and found that
the contrast on Ilford/Kodak VC papers equalled about a "6" ! Try putting
in a CC40Y in the light path. I got the gelatin filter (Kodak) mounted
into a cardboard/mount to hold it flat and it sits ontop of my enlarging
lens (i.e. between negative & lens). The gelatin is of optical quality
and I haven't had a problem since. This will allow you to use you MG filters
as if it were a tungsten light source.
Jonas
Roy C. Zartarian
: 1. Use a green color separation gel (58) below the lens, and
: do a test strip for high values. Give a second test strip the
Depending on one's setup and choice of paper, the no. 58 may prove too
green, resulting in unacceptably long exposure times. With a Z6 head,
Oriental VC FB, and Dektol 1:2, I found it necessary to use CC60G rather
than the 58 to get my high and middle values. Plan on some
experimentation to determine whether the published Englander
recommendations will work.
LOOKAROUND
You must read the articles in Camera and
Darkroom sept/oct - nov/dec by Phil Davis.
He did extensive testing of VC papers and
all types of cold light heads. A real eye
opener.
I have been using the split blue/green
printing technique with Multigrade lately.
I had blue and green lamps made for my
enlarger at a neon shop. This was
semi-workable. I found that I can get in
the ball-park with normal vc filters then
do radical fixes in areas of the neg or
really extreme negatives using the
individual colors. I mostly have found a
blast of green light puts detail in really
hot areas - my most usual problem.