If Jobo were smart they'd...
Russell Brooks
a company to offer a cheaper film developer. A scaled down version of the
CPE-2 that just has always one temp setting of 68 degrees and can use the
1500 series tanks to process. No lift and no bottles, just graduates enough
for one-shot b&w film processing. No need for paper processing as it's
easier to use trays for sizes up to 11x14. The main advantage would be
tempature consistancy and all the other benefits of rotary processing. All
the extra funcitonality of the CPE-2 is wasted for me. I'd bet there's a
market for a $150-$250 ranged film processor. and maybe bundle it with a
nice dark change bag as well.
Harry P Bloomberg
Russell Brooks <Russel...@nospam.worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>I was thinking that with the new demand for b&w that it might make sense for
>a company to offer a cheaper film developer. A scaled down version of the
>CPE-2 that just has always one temp setting of 68 degrees and can use the
[...snip...]
One problem...some popular b&w processes require temperatures other
than 68 deg. For example, Kodak recommends 75 deg (or at least, they did
the last time I looked at Kodak technical literature) as the preferred
temperature for TMax films developed with TMax developer. Or, it's
possible that some people have their preferred temperatures.
Harry Bloomberg
hp...@pitt.edu
Mark Schupack
P Bloomberg) wrote:
Furthermore, if you use 4x5 you must use the 2500 series of tanks, which
forces the processor to accomodate at least sizes of tanks.
Redmond Young
In article <7dgvsu$ff5$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>,
Russell Brooks <Russel...@nospam.worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>I was thinking that with the new demand for b&w that it might make sense for
>a company to offer a cheaper film developer. A scaled down version of the
>CPE-2 that just has always one temp setting of 68 degrees and can use the
>for one-shot b&w film processing. No need for paper processing as it's
>easier to use trays for sizes up to 11x14. The main advantage would be
>tempature consistancy and all the other benefits of rotary processing. All
>the extra funcitonality of the CPE-2 is wasted for me. I'd bet there's a
>market for a $150-$250 ranged film processor. and maybe bundle it with a
>nice dark change bag as well.
Rotary processing for B&W prints ? Nahh. One of the nice things about
B&W printing is the ability to see the image developing under a safelight.
The lift is extra, so you don't have to buy it for the CPE2+.
For film you can get the TBE2 tempering box from Jobo. I sold one for
$190 last year.
What I'd like to see from Jobo is a Nova slot processor for 11x14's
without the tempering feature. It would be alot more affordable, I
could use AT chemistry, and save alot of room in my walk-in closet, er,
I mean, my darkroom ... ;^). Jobo had a 8x10 version that could mount
inside the CPE2, but 11x14 would be ALOT nicer. (plus I've heard that
it wasn't that well made, compared to all the other Jobo products)
Yeah! That's it, an 11x14" slot processor that can mount inside a
CPE2 for around $150-200! You could use it outside the CPE2 with AT,
or inside the CPE2 for tempered B&W or color.
---
Regards,
Red Young
KHOwen
>From: re...@Eng.Sun.COM (Redmond Young)
>Date: 3/26/99 8:28 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <7dhc8i$inp$1...@engnews2.Eng.Sun.COM>
These are all great suggestions. We really do appreciate your ideas of how
else we can provide products to meet your needs. Unfortunately, on the CPE
idea, you haven't really removed anything. It still has a rotation motor, and
it still has a heater and thermostat, and of course its trough. So, what has
been removed, that we might be able to lower the price?
Now maybe if we only provided you a room temperature unit, then we could do
away with the heater and thermostat. But, there goes the consistency of
temperature control too.
Regarding the Nova 11x14 room temperature suggestion, Nova did try to make an
11x14 version of the print pod. Unfortunately, it ended up with a price tag
between $300 and $400, and somehow 3 room temperature slots at that price just
don't compete, even with expensive trays.
In spite of our failure to produce these particular ideas, please feel free to
suggest other ideas for us. With resources from Jobo, Durst, Nova, Tetenal,
Fujimoto and other companies, we may yet find a way to make just what you are
looking for!
Ken -- Jobo USA
sa...@jobo-usa.com
Jobo web site: http://www.jobo-usa.com
Jeanette D. Walton
badly made. It's just a pain to jiggle the print constantly so that it doesn't
look like a grilled cheese sandwich when you're done.
Jack Walton
Jean-David Beyer
> I was thinking that with the new demand for b&w that it might make sense for
> a company to offer a cheaper film developer. A scaled down version of the
> CPE-2 that just has always one temp setting of 68 degrees and can use the
> 1500 series tanks to process.
Since I already have a CPE-2, they probably will not sell me another anyway,
but since I prefer to shoot 4x5 sheet film, it would have to hold the 2500
series tanks and reels. Furthermore, since I prefer TMX and TMY films, where
the recommended processing temperature is 75°F, I guess it would need a
2-position switch to set the temperatures. If they did that, they might as well
put in a three position switch to handle C-41. Then they might as well add
another for E-6. In fact, they might as well come out with a CPE-2. Would the
market for a slightly cheaper processor be sufficient to recover the
development and tooling costs, the additional distribution costs, etc.?
I remember when a friend worked at Western Electric, she said the cost of the
plastic to make color telephones instead of the plain black ones was only a few
cents more a ton. But the color telephones were billed at $1.00/month each.
Some of it was pure profit, but some of it had to cover the cost of larger
warehouses to stock all the different colors of telephones, all the different
colors of the cords, the costs of filing tariffs with every public utility
commission in the country and getting their approvals, etc. I guess Jobo need
not deal with the PUC's, but the rest would be a problem. Probably not worth
it.
> No lift and no bottles, just graduates enough
> for one-shot b&w film processing.
You would probably want the bottles, though, so the next set of chemistry would
be up to temperature when you started the next run.
> No need for paper processing as it's
> easier to use trays for sizes up to 11x14. The main advantage would be
> tempature consistancy and all the other benefits of rotary processing. All
> the extra funcitonality of the CPE-2 is wasted for me. I'd bet there's a
> market for a $150-$250 ranged film processor. and maybe bundle it with a
> nice dark change bag as well.
One solution is to get plain tanks and process in one of Jobo's TBE-2 tempering
boxes and using manual agitation. Their list price is $465 (old price list)
whereas the CPE-2Plus is $625. These are list prices and you can probably get
them for less at larger dealers such as Calumet or B&H.
--
Windows is not the answer. Windows is the question. The answer is no.
Jean-David Beyer
Shrewsbury, New Jersey
ed davis
Jean-David Beyer wrote in message <36FDA3A4...@exit109.com>...
(snip)
>
>I guess Jobo need
>not deal with the PUC's, but the rest would be a problem. Probably not
worth
>it.
>
I've always considered Jobo's stuff pricey, but worth it. The products
perform excellently, and service is great. I think part of the price
equation is that darkroom is not exactly a mass market.
>One solution is to get plain tanks and process in one of Jobo's TBE-2
tempering
>boxes and using manual agitation. Their list price is $465 (old price list)
>whereas the CPE-2Plus is $625. These are list prices and you can probably
get
>them for less at larger dealers such as Calumet or B&H.
>
Anyone want a tempering box, I'm not using mine at the moment. Tempt me.
Ed
Russell Brooks
I was just thinking of how to take advantage of the increasing interest in
b&w...
maybe it'd make sense to look at the price elastisity of a CPE-2. You see
plenty used ones selling for $400ish (especially now with ebay going full
blast), I wonder how many new ones sell at the list ($600ish). the quality
is there so it's not a problem buying used like it might be for a lens or
body. So I'm guessing jobo is missing out on some sales to the used market.
It might be that if they lowered the cost of the CPE-2 or tempering box
combined with an advertising campaign the incresed volume would make up for
the loss in profit margin...
Anyway, I could be off base as I don't know this market as well as they
do...
in the meantime I'll just keep market comments to myself in the future.
Jean-David Beyer wrote in message <36FDA3A4...@exit109.com>...
>commission in the country and getting their approvals, etc. I guess Jobo
need
>not deal with the PUC's, but the rest would be a problem. Probably not
worth
>it.
>
>> No lift and no bottles, just graduates enough
>> for one-shot b&w film processing.
>
>You would probably want the bottles, though, so the next set of chemistry
would
>be up to temperature when you started the next run.
>
>> No need for paper processing as it's
>> easier to use trays for sizes up to 11x14. The main advantage would be
>> tempature consistancy and all the other benefits of rotary processing.
All
>> the extra funcitonality of the CPE-2 is wasted for me. I'd bet there's a
>> market for a $150-$250 ranged film processor. and maybe bundle it with a
>> nice dark change bag as well.
>
>One solution is to get plain tanks and process in one of Jobo's TBE-2
tempering
>boxes and using manual agitation. Their list price is $465 (old price list)
>whereas the CPE-2Plus is $625. These are list prices and you can probably
get
>them for less at larger dealers such as Calumet or B&H.
>
KHOwen
>Date: 3/27/99 8:36 PM Eastern Standard Time
>Message-id: <36FD8810...@home.com>
>
>I have the unit that mounts in the CPE and use it for Ilfochrome only. It's
>not
>badly made. It's just a pain to jiggle the print constantly so that it
>doesn't
>look like a grilled cheese sandwich when you're done.
>Jack Walton
>
>Redmond Young wrote:
I work for JOBO USA, so please consider my comments accordingly.
The Jo-Mate conversion kit for the CPE, is ideal for RA-4 prints, especially
since it only needs about 45 seconds in the developer, 15 seconds in the stop
bath and another 45 in the bleach/fix. But for Ilfochrome, with the times
running 2-3 minutes per bath, the manual agitation can become a pain in the
wrist.
Since you already have the CPE, I would suggest processing your Ilfochromes in
the drum. Then you can let the motor do the work.
Jean-David Beyer
> ok, I forgot about the TMAX temp...
> I was just thinking of how to take advantage of the increasing interest in
> b&w...
I see no increasing interest in B&W around here. Photo shops that used to sell
processing chemistry no longer do so, having installed 1-hour processing
machines instead. While I am completely satisfied with the Jobo products I have
purchased, based on my observations of what people are buying around here, I
would not buy stock in the company. People are switching to disposable cameras
(with C-41 color film), 1-hour labs, digital cameras. (Of course, Jobo does
sell equipment suitable for use in 1-hour labs.)
> maybe it'd make sense to look at the price elastisity of a CPE-2. You see
> plenty used ones selling for $400ish (especially now with ebay going full
> blast), I wonder how many new ones sell at the list ($600ish).
Calumet indicate that a new CPE-2+ is $579.95, including bottles and graduates
(no lift). The starter kit, which includes a print drum and a film tank and
some other odds and ends, is $599.95. The list prices for these is $$625 and
$725 according to Jobo's January 1, 1997(!) price list.
John Hicks
<jdb...@exit109.com> wrote:
>I see no increasing interest in B&W around here.
I see a decrease in interest in any darkroom work, if anything. As
much as I don't like to, I'm forced to just about eliminate the
darkroom stuff in my shop because it sits around forever and takes up
far too much space to justify continuing to stock any of it.
---
John Hicks
John's Camera Shop