B&H has the worst customer service on the planet.

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bozak

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Jan 19, 2004, 1:45:40 PM1/19/04
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I bought a Panasonic stand alone dvd recorder from them
(their top of the line unit for the home consumer) and it came
when they said it would. This product came with a rebate
from Panasonic which included 2 DVD-RAM and 8 DVD-R
discs. When i bought the recorder they had the rebate form
on their site for downloading. Once I received the product
I went back to the site and it was no longer there. I spent
a ridiculous amount of time waiting on their phone lines for
someone to talk too. Never happened. I sent three emails to
them. One to the guy who sold it to me (he forwarded it to
the so called customer service department), and two to their
customer service department, both of which went unanswered.

The whole problem with the matter is that Panasonic is no
longer participating in the rebate, but I called Panasonic and
they told me that they would honor the rebate if B&H sent me
the form. This isn't a huge problem, but if they cant take the
time out to send me a rebate form through fax or email, I wonder
what would happen if I had a real problem that they needed
to fix. Their customer service department is none existent.

I'm now in the market for an external Sony 510UL dvd recorder.
I told the guy who i intially bought the Panasonic recorder that
I would buy it from them if all went well with that purchase.
I would buy it from them if i was into aggravation.

Just in case they want to say I'm lying about it, this is
their reference number...

control no. 109178360

They are good for communicating with you as long as you
have received your product. Once you receive it you are
on your own.


Mark M

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Jan 19, 2004, 2:46:56 PM1/19/04
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" bozak" <bo...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:oBVOb.3241$Kp5....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...

> The whole problem with the matter is that Panasonic is no
> longer participating in the rebate, but I called Panasonic and
> they told me that they would honor the rebate if B&H sent me
> the form.

If Panasonic wants to make an exception to it's own discontinuation, then
PANASONIC should contact B&H, rather than expecting B&H to go on your sole
say-so.
This is not a B&H issue, rather it is B&H following Panasonic's clear
cancelation.
-Something over which B&H has no control.
If Panasonic is sincere, they will honor your request with the receipt/proof
of purchase.


Dan Sullivan

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Jan 19, 2004, 3:03:08 PM1/19/04
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" bozak" <bo...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:oBVOb.3241$Kp5....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
> I bought a Panasonic stand alone dvd recorder from them
> (their top of the line unit for the home consumer) and it came
> when they said it would. This product came with a rebate
> from Panasonic which included 2 DVD-RAM and 8 DVD-R
> discs. When i bought the recorder they had the rebate form
> on their site for downloading. Once I received the product
> I went back to the site and it was no longer there. I spent
> a ridiculous amount of time waiting on their phone lines for
> someone to talk too. Never happened. I sent three emails to
> them. One to the guy who sold it to me (he forwarded it to
> the so called customer service department), and two to their
> customer service department, both of which went unanswered.

Why didn't you go directly to the Panasonic website?

It was their rebate, not B&Hs.

And usually rebates end with a three or four week grace period where you
still can send in the paperwork.

Someone at Panasonic should have sent you the form.

> The whole problem with the matter is that Panasonic is no
> longer participating in the rebate, but I called Panasonic and
> they told me that they would honor the rebate if B&H sent me
> the form.

See above.

> This isn't a huge problem, but if they cant take the
> time out to send me a rebate form through fax or email, I wonder
> what would happen if I had a real problem that they needed
> to fix. Their customer service department is none existent.

Now are you referring tp B&H or Panasonic?

> I'm now in the market for an external Sony 510UL dvd recorder.
> I told the guy who i intially bought the Panasonic recorder that
> I would buy it from them if all went well with that purchase.
> I would buy it from them if i was into aggravation.
>
> Just in case they want to say I'm lying about it, this is
> their reference number...
>
> control no. 109178360
>
> They are good for communicating with you as long as you
> have received your product. Once you receive it you are
> on your own.

You should have dealt directly with Panasonic because it was their rebate.

Best, Dan Sullivan


Jeff Shoaf

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Jan 19, 2004, 3:24:09 PM1/19/04
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" bozak" <bo...@mail.com> wrote in news:oBVOb.3241$Kp5.2507
@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com:

I'll have to disagree with you. I recently bought a fairly expensive lens
from them. When I received it, they had included a manufacturer's rebate
form for the lens. I quickly noticed that the lens had dust in it. I took
some test shots with it and didn't notice any adverse affects from the
dust, but I knew that it would affect the resale value of the lens so I
decided to exchange it. It did take a while to get through to a customer
service rep, but this was between the Christmas and New Year's holidays
so I assumed they were overloaded.

When I finally got through to a CS rep, he took my information, gave me
an RMA number, and e-mailed me a web link where I could print out a pre-
paid UPS label. I printed the label, packaged up the lens, attached the
label, and dropped the package off at a nearby Staples on a Tuesday. I
received the replacement lens the next Tuesday.

I'm so happy with their service that I placed another order from them
last night.

Product developer

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Jan 19, 2004, 5:10:05 PM1/19/04
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I am regular client of B and H and have never had a problem with them.
I am the first to complain if I feel like I am gettting hosed but B
and H delivers where some of the little guys fail. I am waiting for a
$250.00 Matrox rebate on the X.100 that was handled by B and H. If
there is a hiccup I will post it here.

jjs

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Jan 19, 2004, 5:42:41 PM1/19/04
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In article <oBVOb.3241$Kp5....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com>, " bozak"
<bo...@mail.com> wrote:

> I bought a Panasonic stand alone dvd recorder from them

Take it up with someone who fcuking cares, you cross-posting deadbeat.

Princess

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Jan 19, 2004, 6:14:28 PM1/19/04
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(jjs)It must suck to be that miserable all the time
.
"jjs" <jo...@xyzzy.stafford.net> wrote in message
news:john-19010...@m-0-135.docsis.hbci.com...

Duncan

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Jan 19, 2004, 7:14:46 PM1/19/04
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They're the best online sales organization in photography in North
America...they really know they're stuff and they deliver...no bull.


" bozak" <bo...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:oBVOb.3241$Kp5....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...

Joseph Meehan

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Jan 19, 2004, 9:25:14 PM1/19/04
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Maybe if you had written that you had a problem, presented the facts and
asked what you might be able to do to correct the problem, you would have
received a much warmer response.

As indicated, I suggest you send copies of your information to Panasonic
(who issue the rebate), that is to the company not the rebate processor, and
ask what you may be able to do now. Ask them if they can process it with
the information you provided or if they might be able to provide a rebate
form?

I suspect they will take care of it.

I know, I have kicked myself more than once for screwing up a refund
request, but it happens. Life to too short to stay made at yourself or
anyone else over it.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math


" bozak" <bo...@mail.com> wrote in message
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PTRAVEL

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Jan 19, 2004, 9:29:44 PM1/19/04
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" bozak" <bo...@mail.com> wrote in message
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Well, let's see. . .

You're mad at B&H because they took down a rebate form after the promotion
ended, and won't send you another.

You must be kidding.

Incidently, both in my personal experience, and after buying many, many
thousands of dollars worth of gear, and in the experiences of those who
bought from them and reported on the internet, B&H is the unquestioned
leader in customer service, ethical deal and business integrity.


Charlie Fenton

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Jan 19, 2004, 10:16:08 PM1/19/04
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Charlie Fenton

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Jan 19, 2004, 10:16:27 PM1/19/04
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Charlie Fenton

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Jan 19, 2004, 10:16:48 PM1/19/04
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Charlie Fenton

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Jan 19, 2004, 10:17:06 PM1/19/04
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Charlie Fenton

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Jan 19, 2004, 10:17:18 PM1/19/04
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A Good Joe

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Jan 19, 2004, 10:23:41 PM1/19/04
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Why didn't you print out the rebate form from the website in the first
place. You obviously knew you were going to purchase the recorder - why wait
to order then go get the rebate form?

" bozak" <bo...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:oBVOb.3241$Kp5....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...

Frank ess

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Jan 19, 2004, 10:35:45 PM1/19/04
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Sorry, Charlie


Bryand Spencer

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Jan 20, 2004, 12:19:38 AM1/20/04
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Fer Gods sake Charlie, say somethin'.


gr

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Jan 20, 2004, 7:40:46 AM1/20/04
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"PTRAVEL" <ptravel8...@yahoo.com> wrote

E-mailing the old rebate form is a pretty simple request. If your
"unquestioned leader in customer service" won't even be bothered doing that,
then it doesn't say much for the current state of customer service.


bozak

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Jan 20, 2004, 11:54:03 AM1/20/04
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"PTRAVEL" <ptravel8...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<bui3qm$hrdfa$1...@ID-101118.news.uni-berlin.de>...

> " bozak" <bo...@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:oBVOb.3241$Kp5....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
>
> Well, let's see. . .
>
> You're mad at B&H because they took down a rebate form after the promotion
> ended, and won't send you another.

they never sent me the first one...
>
> You must be kidding.

apparently i must not be...


>
> Incidently, both in my personal experience, and after buying many, many
> thousands of dollars worth of gear, and in the experiences of those who
> bought from them and reported on the internet, B&H is the unquestioned
> leader in customer service, ethical deal and business integrity.

B&H is full of shit... The problem is they have not responded back in
kind in any fashion. If thats what you call great customer service,
so be it.

bozak

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Jan 20, 2004, 11:55:06 AM1/20/04
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jdu...@vorel.com (Product developer) wrote in message news:<118afaeb.04011...@posting.google.com>...

> I am regular client of B and H and have never had a problem with them.

lucky you...

bozak

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Jan 20, 2004, 12:02:29 PM1/20/04
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"Dan Sullivan" <dsul...@optonline.net> wrote in message news:<0KWOb.21653$OM2.5...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net>...

> " bozak" <bo...@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:oBVOb.3241$Kp5....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
> > I bought a Panasonic stand alone dvd recorder from them
> > (their top of the line unit for the home consumer) and it came
> > when they said it would. This product came with a rebate
> > from Panasonic which included 2 DVD-RAM and 8 DVD-R
> > discs. When i bought the recorder they had the rebate form
> > on their site for downloading. Once I received the product
> > I went back to the site and it was no longer there. I spent
> > a ridiculous amount of time waiting on their phone lines for
> > someone to talk too. Never happened. I sent three emails to
> > them. One to the guy who sold it to me (he forwarded it to
> > the so called customer service department), and two to their
> > customer service department, both of which went unanswered.
>
> Why didn't you go directly to the Panasonic website?

it was no longer on the panasonic website...
it was on the B&H site when i bought the recorder...


>
> It was their rebate, not B&Hs.

B&H used the rebate in an effort to sell the recorder...
I think the main reason B&H is not responding to me because
the actual item I received is different from the item I paid
for. I paid for a panasonic dmr-e100hs, what I received was
a panasonic dmr-e100h. Part of my email asked what is the
difference between the 100hs and 100h. As of today I still
have had no reply from them. I cant tell the difference as
they seem to have no different functions. But since I bought
it from B&H I would think they could clear up the matter.

Is that good customer service in your estimation?


>
> And usually rebates end with a three or four week grace period where you
> still can send in the paperwork.
>
> Someone at Panasonic should have sent you the form.

They said it was up to B&H. You have no idea of how many
people at Panasonic I had to talk to just to get them
to do that.

>
> > The whole problem with the matter is that Panasonic is no
> > longer participating in the rebate, but I called Panasonic and
> > they told me that they would honor the rebate if B&H sent me
> > the form.
>
> See above.

so should you.


>
> > This isn't a huge problem, but if they cant take the
> > time out to send me a rebate form through fax or email, I wonder
> > what would happen if I had a real problem that they needed
> > to fix. Their customer service department is none existent.
>
> Now are you referring tp B&H or Panasonic?

B&H since it was up on their site and part of their promotion
to sell it.


>
> > I'm now in the market for an external Sony 510UL dvd recorder.
> > I told the guy who i intially bought the Panasonic recorder that
> > I would buy it from them if all went well with that purchase.
> > I would buy it from them if i was into aggravation.
> >
> > Just in case they want to say I'm lying about it, this is
> > their reference number...
> >
> > control no. 109178360
> >
> > They are good for communicating with you as long as you
> > have received your product. Once you receive it you are
> > on your own.
>
> You should have dealt directly with Panasonic because it was their rebate.

I have and thought I explained it pretty clearly...
Apparently I didnt...

bozak

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Jan 20, 2004, 12:03:18 PM1/20/04
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Jeff Shoaf <jeffshoaf-@-alltel.net> wrote in message news:<Xns94759C817EE61j...@63.223.5.95>...

Diagree with me all you want. It doesnt make what I said not
true.

bozak

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Jan 20, 2004, 12:05:43 PM1/20/04
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"Duncan" <dm...@pollara.ca> wrote in message news:<Wp_Ob.15206$7JB1...@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...

> They're the best online sales organization in photography in North
> America...they really know they're stuff and they deliver...no bull.

What they delivered me was a product I didn't pay for and refuse to
even contact me about it.

I paid for a Panasonic dmr-e100hs, I received a dmr-e100h. Their seems
to be no difference, but I would like them to at least call me back
an affirm it. Not to mention send me the rebate form like I ask..

bozak

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Jan 20, 2004, 12:07:40 PM1/20/04
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"Joseph Meehan" <sligojo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<ek0Pb.13038$372....@fe1.columbus.rr.com>...

> Maybe if you had written that you had a problem, presented the facts and
> asked what you might be able to do to correct the problem, you would have
> received a much warmer response.

What are you talking about? I did and got NO response.

Mike

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Jan 20, 2004, 1:46:34 PM1/20/04
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"bozak" <bo...@onebox.com> wrote in message
news:6512dae1.04012...@posting.google.com...

I'm willing to bet if you check the internet you will find both Panasonic
units along with a description of each.
Wouldn't it be funny if you received a more expensive unit at the price of
the lower cost one.

Stephen H. Westin

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Jan 20, 2004, 5:16:52 PM1/20/04
to

Then order from Cambridge Camera next time :).

--
-Stephen H. Westin
Any information or opinions in this message are mine: they do not
represent the position of Cornell University or any of its sponsors.

gr

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Jan 20, 2004, 5:29:17 PM1/20/04
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"bozak" <bo...@onebox.com> wrote

>
> B&H is full of shit... The problem is they have not responded back in
> kind in any fashion. If thats what you call great customer service,
> so be it.

Yeah, I'm not quite sure why some people seem to have a hero-worship thing
going with B&H. From the dealings I've had with them, they seem to be a good
company to deal with as long as nothing goes wrong with your order. If you
have a problem, their customer service is nothing to write home about.
They're curt and unhelpful, even if you do manage to get a response.

They're not out to rip you off, but neither are they out to do you any
favours. One thing I don't like about their policy is that they ship used
stuff as new. (Okay, "used" in the sense that it's been used as a display
model or is a customer-return.) I've had fingerprints on a lens and broken
seals, for example. Nothing damaging that would cause me to return the item,
but they should be clear that you won't necessarily get a factory-sealed
unit.

Overall, I'd rate them pretty average as far as mail-order companies go. I
think people tend to overrate them because their selection is so good.
However, it's easy to overrate a company if nothing goes wrong with your
order and you don't have to deal with their service. I've rated them very
high myself, until a couple of my orders had problems (which I eventually
gave up on, because it wasn't worth my time).


Jeff Shoaf

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Jan 20, 2004, 6:35:49 PM1/20/04
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bo...@onebox.com (bozak) wrote in
news:6512dae1.04012...@posting.google.com:


>> I'll have to disagree with you.
>
> Diagree with me all you want. It doesnt make what I said not
> true.
>

I have no doubt that the events that you've described occurred as you
described them. What I disagreed with you about was your expectations and
conclusions.

Victor Falkteg

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Jan 20, 2004, 8:45:33 PM1/20/04
to
I do not know about your case.
But !!!!
I have bought some camera equipment from B&H and got them sent to my address
in Europe. I have been talking with them over the phone and over e-mail.
My experience is that B&H maybe is the best source of photographic
equipment, not in USA, but in the world.
The reasons are:
They are very helpfull and kind.
They have almost everything you can need.
The shipping is fast and resonably priced.

I recomend everyone in need of a professional source of photographic
equipment to call or mail B&H.

Victor Falkteg


" bozak" <bo...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:oBVOb.3241$Kp5....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...

Randy Stewart

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Jan 20, 2004, 11:15:56 PM1/20/04
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"gr" <grSPAMimr...@playground.net> wrote in message
news:buka3l$iuu7k$1...@ID-65125.news.uni-berlin.de...

Exactly my experience with B&H. Two orders misfilled in a row. Went through
hell getting any service to corect their errors and get them back the
products they mis-shipping. In theend, they stuck me with the shipping
charges to return their products, although they promised to reimburse.

The Moral: every store looks good until something goes wrong. I gave B&H
two bites of my apple, and then I ved back ot Adorama, even though their
selection s sometimes less helpful. No problems since then.

RS

P.S. "Hell" as used above is defined as being left on hold for 30 minutes,
then having someone pick up and drop the receiver to cut off the line.
[Several times]


Ray

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Jan 21, 2004, 12:06:55 AM1/21/04
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I believe the only difference is the color. The HS is silver and the H is
black. Other than that they are the same products.

"bozak" <bo...@onebox.com> wrote in message

news:6512dae1.0401...@posting.google.com...

Ray

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Jan 21, 2004, 12:11:55 AM1/21/04
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But i could be wrong. i have an e80h and it is silver so might not be the
reason one is an S and one an H.
"Ray" <vze2995...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:PNnPb.2652$ro4...@nwrdny02.gnilink.net...

Frank Pittel

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Jan 21, 2004, 12:55:34 AM1/21/04
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In rec.photo.equipment.medium-format bozak <bo...@onebox.com> wrote:
: "Duncan" <dm...@pollara.ca> wrote in message news:<Wp_Ob.15206$7JB1...@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...

If you didn't get what you paid for send it back.

On another note don't think your little temper tantrum is going to cost
B&H any business. While I have issues with B&H I can't think of to many times
that I've had problems with an order. When I have they always corrected the problem
quickly. If you check on this and other newgroups you'll find that my experiences with
them are the norm. I've bought from them before and will do so again. Your snit
isn't going to change my opinion of them or the opinions of any others.
--


Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
-------------------
f...@deepthought.com

gr

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Jan 21, 2004, 7:41:43 AM1/21/04
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"Victor Falkteg" <fal...@brevet.nu> wrote

> The reasons are:
> They are very helpfull and kind.

LOL. Then you've never had to deal with their customer service if you have a
problem with your order. They've certainly got the New York attitude!

> They have almost everything you can need.

Agreed.

> The shipping is fast and resonably priced.

I've found the shipping extremely variable. Sometimes they'll ship it out
fast, other times they seem to wait forever for no apparent reason. That can
be annoying if you've paid for 2 day delivery, but don't get it for a couple
of weeks because they're sitting on the order.

They're extremely unhelpful for anything that isn't exactly part of their
process, and that's if you can even get hold of them at all (post sale). I'm
not sure if the service guys are just dumb, overworked, or lazy. Probably
some combo of the 3.

>
> I recomend everyone in need of a professional source of photographic
> equipment to call or mail B&H.

What are you, their poster boy? Sheesh!


Dan Sullivan

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Jan 21, 2004, 8:33:29 AM1/21/04
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"gr" <grSPAMimr...@playground.net> wrote in message
news:buls2a$jdt02$1...@ID-65125.news.uni-berlin.de...

> "Victor Falkteg" <fal...@brevet.nu> wrote
> > The reasons are:
> > They are very helpfull and kind.
>
> LOL. Then you've never had to deal with their customer service if you have
a
> problem with your order. They've certainly got the New York attitude!

FYI the "New York" attitude is what made B&H the preeminent photo store in
the world.

> > They have almost everything you can need.
>
> Agreed.
>
> > The shipping is fast and resonably priced.
>
> I've found the shipping extremely variable. Sometimes they'll ship it out
> fast, other times they seem to wait forever for no apparent reason. That
can
> be annoying if you've paid for 2 day delivery, but don't get it for a
couple
> of weeks because they're sitting on the order.

Maybe they ran out of stock and had to wait for a new shipment to come in.

It happens.

> They're extremely unhelpful for anything that isn't exactly part of their
> process, and that's if you can even get hold of them at all (post sale).
I'm
> not sure if the service guys are just dumb, overworked, or lazy. Probably
> some combo of the 3.

I'm willing to bet that most customer service problems at B&H are handled
quickly and properly.

> > I recomend everyone in need of a professional source of photographic
> > equipment to call or mail B&H.
>
> What are you, their poster boy? Sheesh!

When B&H and a few other stores are the exception to the rule (no bait and
switch, no pushing of over-priced accessories, no inflated shipping and
insurance charges, AND most of the time they have the item in stock), what's
the problem about letting other people know what you've found?

Have fun, Dan Sullivan


bozak

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Jan 21, 2004, 11:53:10 AM1/21/04
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"Randy Stewart" <ran...@pacifier.com> wrote in message news:<100rv7f...@corp.supernews.com>...

Exactly... This same thing happened to me. I'm guessing they do enough
business to the point that customer service is not a concern of theirs.

bozak

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Jan 21, 2004, 12:01:29 PM1/21/04
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"Ray" <vze2995...@verizon.net> wrote in message news:<PNnPb.2652$ro4...@nwrdny02.gnilink.net>...
> I believe the only difference is the color. The HS is silver and the H is
> black. Other than that they are the same products.

I have the H and it is silver also.
It appears that their isn't any difference.
Yet I am not positive of that as of yet.

Dan Sullivan

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Jan 21, 2004, 12:04:37 PM1/21/04
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"bozak" <bo...@onebox.com> wrote in message
news:6512dae1.04012...@posting.google.com...

Let's see... B&H probably does well over a million a day in business... the
number of daily sales must be staggering... and we have TWO people who've
had a bad experience with their customer service.

I'm underwhelmed.

B&H's business plan is to get customers and KEEP them as customers.

"I'm guessing they do enough business to the point that customer service is
not a concern of theirs."

B&H didn't get to where they are by NOT taking care of their customers.

IOW there'd be more than TWO of you complaining.

Dan Sullivan

bozak

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Jan 21, 2004, 12:05:26 PM1/21/04
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Frank Pittel <f...@warlock.deepthought.com> wrote in message news:<XqKdnag5tcf...@giganews.com>...

My snit? Please do order from them, I could care less. But to say this
wont change anyone elses opinion is moronic. Oh maybe you do think
for the rest of the world.

I bought from B&H because of what I read in these types of forums
you moron. You think others dont do so as well?

Dan Sullivan

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 12:27:27 PM1/21/04
to

"bozak" <bo...@onebox.com> wrote in message
news:6512dae1.0401...@posting.google.com...

Let's see... you've got two of these DVD burners.

You wouldn't own a camera store and be breaking stones because B&H is your
biggest competitor?

bozak

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 12:28:14 PM1/21/04
to
"Victor Falkteg" <fal...@brevet.nu> wrote in message news:<buklrs$4v4$1...@green.tninet.se>...

> I do not know about your case.
> But !!!!
> I have bought some camera equipment from B&H and got them sent to my address
> in Europe. I have been talking with them over the phone and over e-mail.
> My experience is that B&H maybe is the best source of photographic
> equipment, not in USA, but in the world.
> The reasons are:
> They are very helpfull and kind.
> They have almost everything you can need.
> The shipping is fast and resonably priced.
>
> I recomend everyone in need of a professional source of photographic
> equipment to call or mail B&H.
>
> Victor Falkteg

These types of groupie posts were not paid attention to me
when researching where to buy if from. I wish i had paid
attention to them.

Or does this guy work for them. Funny the main thing that
made me buy from B&H was that when somebody said something
bad about them on the net they were quick to follow up
and discredit the person who said it. I guess you cant
discredit the truth.

bozak

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 12:30:00 PM1/21/04
to
Jeff Shoaf <jeffshoaf-@-alltel.net> wrote in message news:<Xns9476BD005F9F5j...@63.223.5.95>...

Wow i thought everyone would expect a company that they purchased
goods from to respond back to them once they had an issue.
Damn, wrong again.

bozak

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 12:32:22 PM1/21/04
to
"Mike" <ne...@earthdink.net> wrote in message news:<eIePb.20705$zj7....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>...

> "bozak" <bo...@onebox.com> wrote in message
> news:6512dae1.04012...@posting.google.com...
> > "Duncan" <dm...@pollara.ca> wrote in message
> news:<Wp_Ob.15206$7JB1...@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...
> > > They're the best online sales organization in photography in North
> > > America...they really know they're stuff and they deliver...no bull.
> >
> > What they delivered me was a product I didn't pay for and refuse to
> > even contact me about it.
> >
> > I paid for a Panasonic dmr-e100hs, I received a dmr-e100h. Their seems
> > to be no difference, but I would like them to at least call me back
> > an affirm it. Not to mention send me the rebate form like I ask..
>
> I'm willing to bet if you check the internet you will find both Panasonic
> units along with a description of each.

Description seems to be the same.

> Wouldn't it be funny if you received a more expensive unit at the price of
> the lower cost one.

You mean if they sent me something that cost ten times as much by accident?
You think they would want me to call them back if that happened?

I bet you do.

bozak

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 12:33:16 PM1/21/04
to
"A Good Joe" <fin...@lickin-good.com> wrote in message news:<1b1Pb.68613$I05.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>...
> Why didn't you print out the rebate form from the website in the first
> place. You obviously knew you were going to purchase the recorder - why wait
> to order then go get the rebate form?

What does this have to do with their poor customer service?

Dan Sullivan

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 12:45:25 PM1/21/04
to

"bozak" <bo...@onebox.com> wrote in message
news:6512dae1.04012...@posting.google.com...

Because everything from the point where you failed to print out the rebate
until now demonstrates that you are a horse's...

well let's get some facts straight before I finish that phrase.

When did you order the DVD unit?

When did you receive the DVD unit?

When did the Panasonic's rebate start?

When did Panasonic's rebate end?

When did you decide to start filling out Panasonic's rebate form?

Was this before the rebate ended, and rather than print out Panasonic's
rebate form from their website you contacted B&H and asked that they send
you a copy.

Or was the time limit on the rebate over and the form no longer on the
internet????


PTRAVEL

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 1:02:09 PM1/21/04
to
bo...@onebox.com (bozak) wrote in message news:<6512dae1.04012...@posting.google.com>...
> "PTRAVEL" <ptravel8...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<bui3qm$hrdfa$1...@ID-101118.news.uni-berlin.de>...

> > " bozak" <bo...@mail.com> wrote in message
> > news:oBVOb.3241$Kp5....@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > Well, let's see. . .
> >
> > You're mad at B&H because they took down a rebate form after the promotion
> > ended, and won't send you another.
>
> they never sent me the first one...

They had no obligation to do so.

> >
> > You must be kidding.
>
> apparently i must not be...
> >
> > Incidently, both in my personal experience, and after buying many, many
> > thousands of dollars worth of gear, and in the experiences of those who
> > bought from them and reported on the internet, B&H is the unquestioned
> > leader in customer service, ethical deal and business integrity.


>
> B&H is full of shit... The problem is they have not responded back in
> kind in any fashion. If thats what you call great customer service,
> so be it.

I don't believe you've called them. I've had the odd problem, e.g.
needing an RMA, etc. They always answered the phone promptly and
provided the help that I needed. Since your experience directly
contradicts my own, as well as the reported experiences of hundred, if
not thousands, of others, I don't give you credibility, particularly
since I think your demand is unreasonable.

B&H is the best mail-order (and walk in) photography gear retailer in
the world. Period.

A Good Joe

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 1:46:34 PM1/21/04
to
Plenty, the customer is supposed to take advantage of rebate forms offered
online by printing them out. If the form is not there after the closing date
of the rebate it is not the fault of the company selling the product where
the coupon was offered whether or not the customer took adavntage and
printed out, or saved that coupon.

B&H have no responsibilities to this customer for a rebate that was offered
by link on their website to the manufacturer coupon at the manufacturer's
website. If the manufacturer took down that coupon on the specified closing
date it is not up to B&H to make ammends to the customer for the lack of
access to the rebate coupon, nor is it their responsibility to continue to
spend valuable business time listening to the whines and cries of a customer
who cannot take responsibility for his own actions, or lack of action in
this case.

If it weren't for the stupid credo - "the customer is always right" no one
would be talking about this at all. The truth of the matter is "the customer
is NOT always right" and unfortunately a business cannot just tell that
customer this simple truth. It's not like it was when you could scream,
stamp your feet, and throw a temper tantrum to get momma and daddy to give
you your way anymore. You can't always get what you want in the real world.
Live with it! Take responsibility for once, and stop placing blame while
attempting to make company's like B&H look like they have such bad customer
service.


"bozak" <bo...@onebox.com> wrote in message
news:6512dae1.04012...@posting.google.com...

Crownfield

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 1:48:54 PM1/21/04
to

if you spent 1/1000th the time
finding out what the difference is
that you spent whining here, you would have the answer.

Crownfield

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 1:51:51 PM1/21/04
to
bozak wrote:
>
> My snit? Please do order from them, I could care less. But to say this
> wont change anyone elses opinion is moronic. Oh maybe you do think
> for the rest of the world.
>
> I bought from B&H because of what I read in these types of forums
> you moron. You think others dont do so as well?

they do not pay attention to a whiner.

FLY135

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 2:02:27 PM1/21/04
to

"A Good Joe" <fin...@lickin-good.com> wrote in message
news:eOzPb.84639$I05.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...

> Plenty, the customer is supposed to take advantage of rebate forms offered
> online by printing them out. If the form is not there after the closing
date
> of the rebate it is not the fault of the company selling the product where
> the coupon was offered whether or not the customer took adavntage and
> printed out, or saved that coupon.

I think a reasonable time frame for a company wanting to provide good
service would be the "postmark by" date for submission.


C

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 3:34:59 PM1/21/04
to


I've had nothing but very fine service from B&H. Other than being a bit
too "New York City" on the phone, they have been very good with customer
care.

Victor Falkteg

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 4:15:16 PM1/21/04
to
To know the truth you should listen to different opinions and then use your
brain.

And...

If somebody has the right to write about bad experience, then why shouldn't
others have the right to write about their experineces?

Or is it fashionable to only see the bad things about some specific photo
stores?

Or are you Mr. Bozak owner of another photo store that feels the competition
from B&H to hard to take?

Greetings

Victor


"bozak" <bo...@onebox.com> wrote in message
news:6512dae1.04012...@posting.google.com...

gr

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 5:05:40 PM1/21/04
to
"Dan Sullivan" <dsul...@optonline.net> wrote

>
> Let's see... B&H probably does well over a million a day in business...
the
> number of daily sales must be staggering... and we have TWO people who've
> had a bad experience with their customer service.
>
> I'm underwhelmed.

So am I! You need a serious course in logic, buddy!


gr

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 5:11:57 PM1/21/04
to
"A Good Joe" <fin...@lickin-good.com> wrote
>
> B&H have no responsibilities to this customer for a rebate that was
offered
> by link on their website to the manufacturer coupon at the manufacturer's
> website.

You are correct. B&H has every right to tell him to go to hell. They've
apparently done just that. However, that's not the point. It would take all
of 2 minutes for B&H to help this guy out. The point is that they couldn't
care less about helping him. That's poor customer service. It's well within
B&H's right to ignore him, but it's still poor customer service.

Check out resellerratings.com. You'll see that B&H ratings have been
declining. They may have provided good service in the past, but that level
of service seems to be deteriorating.


PTRAVEL

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 5:35:37 PM1/21/04
to

"gr" <grSPAMimr...@playground.net> wrote in message
news:bumtl3$jfne9$2...@ID-65125.news.uni-berlin.de...

Or, more likely, it means the number of people posting complaints has gone
up, which is a whole different thing. People complain at
resellerratings.com for two reasons: to warn others and to vent their
frustration. Complainers will always post there. On the other hand, people
with positive experiences post most often about relatively unknown
vendors -- it's a way of saying, "hey, I was pleasantly surprised, here's a
vendor to remember." B&H is so well known (and, specifically, well-known
for its ethics and integrity) that most of its satisfied customers don't
post. I use resellerratings.com all the time to check out vendors, and I've
bought many thousands of dollars worth of stuff from B&H and never had
anything but a positive experience, but I don't post about them at
resellerratings. Maybe I should.


>
>


gr

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 5:40:22 PM1/21/04
to
"PTRAVEL" <ptravel8...@yahoo.com> wrote

> >
> > You are correct. B&H has every right to tell him to go to hell. They've
> > apparently done just that. However, that's not the point. It would take
> all
> > of 2 minutes for B&H to help this guy out. The point is that they
couldn't
> > care less about helping him. That's poor customer service. It's well
> within
> > B&H's right to ignore him, but it's still poor customer service.
> >
> > Check out resellerratings.com. You'll see that B&H ratings have been
> > declining. They may have provided good service in the past, but that
level
> > of service seems to be deteriorating.
>
> Or, more likely, it means the number of people posting complaints has gone
> up, which is a whole different thing. People complain at
> resellerratings.com for two reasons: to warn others and to vent their
> frustration. Complainers will always post there.

Your logic is flawed. B&H is the same big company it was a year ago. If the
number of whiners has gone up, it's probably because there's a higher
percentage of people getting screwed by B&H than there was a year ago. Your
argument is moot.


PTRAVEL

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 5:43:28 PM1/21/04
to

"gr" <grSPAMimr...@playground.net> wrote in message
news:bumv3v$jq4il$1...@ID-65125.news.uni-berlin.de...

On the contrary, B&H gets bigger every year, at least from everything I've
read. Do you evidence to the contrary?

I've also _never_ heard of any instance of someone "getting screwed" by B&H,
i.e. B&H taking advantage, engaging in fraudulent conduct, etc. Every
complaint I've ever heard has been liked the one in this thread, which is to
say baseless.

Incidently, you need to look up the word "moot." You've misused it.


>
>


Randy Rhine

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 6:52:21 PM1/21/04
to
My experience with B&H has overall been good...until...the last order
that I got a couple of weeks ago. An item was damaged. It was a roll of
seamless paper. It had been crushed, maybe in transit although the box
was intact, and only about half of it was usable. At $20, it wasn't
worth the hassle of sending it back. And..I needed it...the local stores
were out. So I used their website to let them know of the problem and
suggested that they give me a credit or refund for half the cost. I even
offered to email a pic of the damage. Their website says that I should
expect a response within 24 hoours. It's been a week now...and no word.
It really doesn't bother me that they don't want to refund without
getting anything back. But being ignored DOES bother me. I'm not going
to stop dealing with them just because of this one instance, but will
look around at others vendors where in the past I would automatically
have gone to B&H.

rr

Jeff Shoaf

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 8:40:37 PM1/21/04
to

> Jeff Shoaf <jeffshoaf-@-alltel.net> wrote in message
> news:<Xns9476BD005F9F5j...@63.223.5.95>...
>> bo...@onebox.com (bozak) wrote in
>> news:6512dae1.04012...@posting.google.com:
>>
>>
>> >> I'll have to disagree with you.
>> >
>> > Diagree with me all you want. It doesnt make what I said not
>> > true.
>> >
>>
>> I have no doubt that the events that you've described occurred as you
>> described them. What I disagreed with you about was your expectations
>> and conclusions.
>
> Wow i thought everyone would expect a company that they purchased
> goods from to respond back to them once they had an issue.
> Damn, wrong again.
>

In my original post, I related my experience with a purchase and exchange
of a fairly expensive lens. I mentioned that it took a while for me to get
through to customer service and that I assumed it was due to the time of
year (post holidays). Once I got through, the service I received was
excellent.

Frank Pittel

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 9:14:00 PM1/21/04
to
In rec.photo.equipment.medium-format bozak <bo...@onebox.com> wrote:
: "Victor Falkteg" <fal...@brevet.nu> wrote in message news:<buklrs$4v4$1...@green.tninet.se>...

: > I do not know about your case.
: > But !!!!
: > I have bought some camera equipment from B&H and got them sent to my address
: > in Europe. I have been talking with them over the phone and over e-mail.
: > My experience is that B&H maybe is the best source of photographic
: > equipment, not in USA, but in the world.
: > The reasons are:
: > They are very helpfull and kind.
: > They have almost everything you can need.
: > The shipping is fast and resonably priced.
: >
: > I recomend everyone in need of a professional source of photographic
: > equipment to call or mail B&H.
: >
: > Victor Falkteg

: These types of groupie posts were not paid attention to me
: when researching where to buy if from. I wish i had paid
: attention to them.

The type of snit that you're throwing get ignored far more then testimonials.
What doesn't get ignored is a redundancy of posts. Even if a lot more people complain
tantrums like the one that you pitched have little to no credibility.

: Or does this guy work for them. Funny the main thing that

: > >
: > >
: > >
: > >

--


Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
-------------------
f...@deepthought.com

Frank Pittel

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 9:16:12 PM1/21/04
to
In rec.photo.equipment.medium-format gr <grSPAMimr...@playground.net> wrote:
: "Victor Falkteg" <fal...@brevet.nu> wrote
: > The reasons are:
: > They are very helpfull and kind.

: LOL. Then you've never had to deal with their customer service if you have a
: problem with your order. They've certainly got the New York attitude!

I've delt with their service department and have always gotten my problem resolved.
Then again I grew up in Chicago and now work in the city and have the Chicago attitude! :-)

: > They have almost everything you can need.

: Agreed.

: > The shipping is fast and resonably priced.

: I've found the shipping extremely variable. Sometimes they'll ship it out
: fast, other times they seem to wait forever for no apparent reason. That can
: be annoying if you've paid for 2 day delivery, but don't get it for a couple
: of weeks because they're sitting on the order.

: They're extremely unhelpful for anything that isn't exactly part of their
: process, and that's if you can even get hold of them at all (post sale). I'm
: not sure if the service guys are just dumb, overworked, or lazy. Probably
: some combo of the 3.

: >
: > I recomend everyone in need of a professional source of photographic
: > equipment to call or mail B&H.

: What are you, their poster boy? Sheesh!

Dennis Vogel

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 10:33:01 PM1/21/04
to
"bozak" <bo...@onebox.com> wrote in message
news:6512dae1.04012...@posting.google.com...
> jdu...@vorel.com (Product developer) wrote in message
news:<118afaeb.04011...@posting.google.com>...
> > I am regular client of B and H and have never had a problem with them.
>
> lucky you...

He's not the only one.

Dennis Vogel


Dennis Vogel

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 10:46:02 PM1/21/04
to
"bozak" <bo...@onebox.com> wrote in message
news:6512dae1.04012...@posting.google.com...
> "Duncan" <dm...@pollara.ca> wrote in message
news:<Wp_Ob.15206$7JB1...@news04.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>...
> > They're the best online sales organization in photography in North
> > America...they really know they're stuff and they deliver...no bull.
>
> What they delivered me was a product I didn't pay for and refuse to
> even contact me about it.
>
> I paid for a Panasonic dmr-e100hs, I received a dmr-e100h. Their seems
> to be no difference, but I would like them to at least call me back
> an affirm it. Not to mention send me the rebate form like I ask..

Just out of curiosity, how much of a rebate are we
talking here? An how much did you pay for the
DVD unit? There's a lot of squawking going on
here. I sure hope we're spending this much time
for hundreds of dollars.

Dennis Vogel


Frank Pittel

unread,
Jan 21, 2004, 11:03:28 PM1/21/04