Feeding Hedgehogs?

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Peter H Blustin

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Aug 11, 1995, 3:00:00 AM8/11/95
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I have noticed some mail about hedgehogs as pets - I thought this was
illegal? ...Hmm

Anyway, we get wild hedgehogs trespassing in our garden every night, but
they are, of course, very welcome. My question is, what can I feed them,
since you shouldn't leave out bread and milk?

Thanks, Claire :)


Rachel Goldberg and/or Adrian Gomez

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Aug 11, 1995, 3:00:00 AM8/11/95
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In article <40g67i$8...@soap.pipex.net>, Peter H Blustin
<ea...@dial.pipex.com> wrote:

Hedgehogs (at least, African Pygmy hedgehogs; I don't know about others)
as pets are not illegal. They have been domesticated in the U.S. for 10
years, and are found in regular ole pet shops. You can feed them a
good-quality cat food like Iams or Science Diet.

--Rachel

--
Adrian Gomez, Rachel Goldberg, two cats, and a hedgehog

"If only closed minds came with closed mouths."

Debra Moore

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Aug 12, 1995, 3:00:00 AM8/12/95
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> Hedgehogs (at least, African Pygmy hedgehogs; I don't know about others)
> as pets are not illegal.
They are illegal in several states. Georgia for one. I'd check before I
bought one.
Legal in Alabama--have 3--Mom (Muffin), Dad (Stud) and as of yet un-named son.

EHRN...@delphi.com

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Aug 13, 1995, 3:00:00 AM8/13/95
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> I have noticed some mail about hedgehogs as pets - I thought this was
> illegal? ...Hmm
> Anyway, we get wild hedgehogs trespassing in our garden every night,
>but they are, of course, very welcome. My question is, what can I feed
>them, since you shouldn't leave out bread and milk?

Claire,

The talk about pets is African Pygmy Hedgehogs, not European (or English)
hedgehogs.

In answer to your question, I personally feel it is wrong to feed wild
animals, as they can be dead of your kindness very quickly. They can
get fat and lazy, and lose their food hunting skills, then you lose
interest or move away and they starve. Or else, they become tamer than
they should, and cease to avoid humans, not all of whom are kind to
wildlife. And it also keeps them closer to civilization, so that they
are more prone to being run over by cars or molested by dogs.

If you must feed them, perhaps you should leave food during the dead of
winter, when they really need it. Leave food in different locations,
so they must hunt for it, and leave it deep in the woods, not near roads.
That is how a true lover of animals can help them out. Don't let your
own desire to be kind harm the very animals you love so much.

Dave

If these are real opinions, they're mine. Otherwise, they're not.

`[1;33;41mRainbow V 1.06 for Delphi - Test Drive


cri...@tfp.com

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Aug 14, 1995, 3:00:00 AM8/14/95
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IP>I have noticed some mail about hedgehogs as pets - I thought this was
IP>illegal? ...Hmm

IP>Anyway, we get wild hedgehogs trespassing in our garden every night, but
IP>they are, of course, very welcome. My question is, what can I feed them,
IP>since you shouldn't leave out bread and milk?

IP>Thanks, Claire :)


Nope..not illegal.. atleast not here in Asheville. There seems to be a
big trend of them as pets.. I am not quite sure why though.. but.. I
can't say that they have interested me enough to know what is best for
them to eat :(

Sorry I wasn't that much help.
Crystal

--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Front Porch BBS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brian MacNamara

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Aug 14, 1995, 3:00:00 AM8/14/95
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Hi Folks,

With all the other comments going on about where hedgehogs are/aren't legal
I thought I'd add my 2 cents worth. I believe the original poster was
thinking about European hedgehogs, which, of course, make for a completely
different situation from African Pigmy Hedgehogs, that are popular as pets in
North America.

In article <biof020-1208...@tty15.maze.ppp.uab.edu>,


Debra Moore <bio...@uabdpo.dpo.uab.edu> wrote:
>They are illegal in several states. Georgia for one. I'd check before I
>bought one.
>Legal in Alabama--have 3--Mom (Muffin), Dad (Stud) and as of yet un-named son.

According to the latest info from the North American Hedgehog Association,
the only states in which hedgehogs are illegal for certain are Alabama,
Alaska, California, Idaho, and Utah. Georgia lists hedgehogs as not being
regulated by the state.

Remember that just because you might happen to have some, it doesn't
necessarily mean they are legit, it's also just as possible my information is
not completely up to date -- this is changing so fast it's impossible to
keep certain track of it all. While I'm mumbling about this stuff, keep in
mind that local (municipal) regulations are a whole 'nother ball game to
watch out for.

Regards...Brian (keeper of the hedgehog FAQ)
--
My opinions belong to me and my company can't have them!
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Barbara Childress

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Aug 14, 1995, 3:00:00 AM8/14/95
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In article <Arbah-11089...@wsfdppp31.epix.net> Ar...@epix.net (Rachel Goldberg and/or Adrian Gomez) writes:
>Path: news.cac.psu.edu!news.tc.cornell.edu!newsserver.sdsc.edu!news.cerf.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!grape.epix.net!wsfdppp31.epix.net!user
>From: Ar...@epix.net (Rachel Goldberg and/or Adrian Gomez)
>Newsgroups: rec.pets
>Subject: Re: Feeding Hedgehogs?
>Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 17:06:34 +0200
>Organization: epix.net
>Lines: 23
>Message-ID: <Arbah-11089...@wsfdppp31.epix.net>
>References: <40g67i$8...@soap.pipex.net>

>Hedgehogs (at least, African Pygmy hedgehogs; I don't know about others)

>as pets are not illegal. They have been domesticated in the U.S. for 10
>years, and are found in regular ole pet shops. You can feed them a
>good-quality cat food like Iams or Science Diet.

I thought Iams has too much protien in it.


>"If only closed minds came with closed mouths."

Very clever Rachel!
+---------------------------------------------------------------+
|"Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see"|
|Barbara |
|bac...@psu.edu |
+---------------------------------------------------------------+

Sonic Fury

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Aug 15, 1995, 3:00:00 AM8/15/95
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bac...@psu.edu (Barbara Childress) wrote:

>In article <Arbah-11089...@wsfdppp31.epix.net> Ar...@epix.net (Rachel Goldberg and/or Adrian Gomez) writes:
>>Path: news.cac.psu.edu!news.tc.cornell.edu!newsserver.sdsc.edu!news.cerf.net!usc!cs.utexas.edu!news.sprintlink.net!grape.epix.net!wsfdppp31.epix.net!user
>>From: Ar...@epix.net (Rachel Goldberg and/or Adrian Gomez)
>>Newsgroups: rec.pets
>>Subject: Re: Feeding Hedgehogs?
>>Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 17:06:34 +0200
>>Organization: epix.net
>>Lines: 23
>>Message-ID: <Arbah-11089...@wsfdppp31.epix.net>
>>References: <40g67i$8...@soap.pipex.net>

>>Hedgehogs (at least, African Pygmy hedgehogs; I don't know about others)
>>as pets are not illegal. They have been domesticated in the U.S. for 10
>>years, and are found in regular ole pet shops. You can feed them a
>>good-quality cat food like Iams or Science Diet.

>I thought Iams has too much protien in it.

It's not good to keep a hedgehog on a cat/ferret food based diet. This was a
common recommendation when hhogs as pets were not as main stream as they have
become, a time when there was no scientifically-balanced commercial diet
specifically for hedgehogs. Good-quality cat food (kitten food preferably) is a
great temporary diet or added supplement for diversity, but the hhog should be
put on a diet designed for hhogs. Pretty Pets makes an excellent hedgehog diet
which can be purchased from any reputable breeder or dealer. If you can't find
it in your local store, ask the clerk to order it. If not call Animal Magic at
1-717-399-3532, and ask them about the Pretty Pets Hedgehog diet. They may ship
it directly to you, or they can at least put you in contact with a source in
your area. We call them "star crunches" because they are little red star shaped
crunchy things. Animal Magic also sells the Roundabouts (those wooden hhog
wheels) for $22.95. I'm not sure what their mail-order policy is, but at least
they should be able to find someone who can help you in your area.


Rachel Goldberg and/or Adrian Gomez

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Aug 17, 1995, 3:00:00 AM8/17/95
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In article <40qvs7$e...@ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>, esc...@ix.netcom.com (Sonic
Fury) wrote:

> It's not good to keep a hedgehog on a cat/ferret food based diet. This was a
> common recommendation when hhogs as pets were not as main stream as they have
> become, a time when there was no scientifically-balanced commercial diet
> specifically for hedgehogs. Good-quality cat food (kitten food
preferably) is a
> great temporary diet or added supplement for diversity, but the hhog should be
> put on a diet designed for hhogs. Pretty Pets makes an excellent
hedgehog diet
> which can be purchased from any reputable breeder or dealer. If you
can't find
> it in your local store, ask the clerk to order it. If not call Animal
Magic at
> 1-717-399-3532, and ask them about the Pretty Pets Hedgehog diet. They
may ship
> it directly to you, or they can at least put you in contact with a source in
> your area. We call them "star crunches" because they are little red
star shaped
> crunchy things. Animal Magic also sells the Roundabouts (those wooden hhog
> wheels) for $22.95. I'm not sure what their mail-order policy is, but
at least
> they should be able to find someone who can help you in your area.

What is the approximate price on that food?

--Rachel

--
Adrian Gomez, Rachel Goldberg, two cats, and a hedgehog

"If only closed minds came with closed mouths."

Peyton Creadick

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Aug 18, 1995, 3:00:00 AM8/18/95
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Good-quality cat food (kitten food
>preferably) is a
>> great temporary diet or added supplement for diversity, but the hhog
should be
>> put on a diet designed for hhogs. Pretty Pets makes an excellent
>hedgehog diet

I have 8 hedgehogs and I love them dearly. I went from catfood to
hedgehog food but have come to rest on Science Diet Lite cat food. the
fat and proteing levela are the same for both. I have spoken to atleast
30 people who have tried the hedgehog food. These were the following
observations on all people who tried the different foods....incl. Iams,
Nutro, and store bought

1. Hedgehogs when given a choice will choose science diet over the
hedgehog food.
2.The stool is very loose on the PP food as it is for birds on the PP
bird pellets. This makes cleaning a mess and the cages less sanitary.
Loose stool is caused by the dye and can be very hard on the kidneys. I
lost a male to kidney problems from the dye. The methods of the initial
breeders of imported hedgehogs are not really know and it is thought that
inbreeding caused some of the weaknesses of the hedgehogs we have now...i.
e. cancer tendencies and fatty liver disease.
3.I and several friends noticed a satrong reduction in the number of
offspring the hedgehogs produced. Mine were on it for 6 months and they
were the worst 6 months I have had. I had babies die and females have
less offspring. (I had had a 100 percent ratio prior)....I had a male die.
.I and most people from what I have heard had messy disgusting stool all
over the cages (it was supposed to stop after a week...it did on some..
on others..most of my hedgies...it didn't stop..it just cut down). I had
grumpy hedgehogs. My hedgeogs are normally very friendly.

..I do not breed my hedgies for profit. I breed a female about 2-3 times
a year. I was a huge reccomender of the PP food when it came out. I think
they need to remove the dye as they do w/ their bird food. I have had
wonderful luck w/ science diet. I have the best ratio of live births and
survival rates. Since deciding on the Science Diet I have gone back up
to NO baby deaths even from a female I had who never could keep a litter
alive. There is no real regulation on stuff like this compared to the way
human food is watched. They have put in the right fat and proteing
ratios but hedgehogs just can't take the dye. These companies can call it
anything they like. There are tons of vitamin supplements for reptiles
and most of them will kill your reptiles if given as directed (they
contain huge amounts of vitamin A and that will cause hypervitaminosis in
reptiles as they cannot take much A). Just because it says HEDGEHOG food
doesn't mean it is the best item out there for hedgehogs. There is still
not as much known about hedgehogs as there needs to be. Before anyone
asks...yes I switched slowly as did my breeder friends. I have one last
example of why I like Science diet. I have a male who just could not be
tamed. he is my only un-gentled hog. He is my favourite but until I came
to use Science Diet I could not even touch him. Now I can handfeed him
and his aggression has cut alot. He breeds much better as well. I am not
saying others won't have good luck on the food but I have heard of very
few people who didn't switch aftyer trying the hedgehog food for awhile.
I was certain it was just adjustment that was causing all the problems
but they never went away. I really don't recommend the stuff to anyone
who likes their hedgie.
-
PEYTON CREADICK VES...@prodigy.com
Yes, Peyton is a female name :)

Peyton Creadick

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Aug 18, 1995, 3:00:00 AM8/18/95
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esc...@ix.netcom.com (Sonic muthafuckin Fury) wrote:
Yes, I would tend to agree the stool does become loose on male hedgehogs,
but we
>have never noticed this problem in any of our female hedgehogs. We have
also
>had this had problem with other types of cat food, but only on our male
>hedgehogs.

.the worst for me was with the females. I never had any trouble w/ my
males on the PP. My pregnant females were the absolute worst.

> Litters on IAMS, Science Diet and other cat or ferret
>foods have been between 2 and 3, whereas the litters on PP have
consistently
>been between 3 and 6.

..funny I had exactly the opposite happen. Even my new mommas had
atleast 4 babies when switched to the Science diet...whereas w/ PP I
rarely saw a litter over 3 and when I did they didn't live.


We have also
>had this had problem with other types of cat food, but only on our male
>hedgehogs.

..our hedgehogs are so different. These are the African variety yes? I
never had male trouble on the different foods. We have also

We have never seen any temperment problems
>(changes, yes, but problems, no) with our hedgehogs, nor have the
breeders that
>we've dealt with.

..the closest approximation I can give you for the behavior of my hog
changing would be the equivilant of children allergic too foods who
develop severe behavior problems. Most animals will do the same. The lady
he cam from (I bought two from her)...did not take good care of them. I
tried im on Nutro and PP but when I came to Science diet he really shaped
up. Certain additives can do that if the animal has a problem w/ it (put
MSG in my food and I myself will go a little berzerk). I also have a
female snowflake that came from a breeder and she was very friendly
eventhough she hadn't been handled much. I switched her to the PP and she
was unhandleable. I switched her to the Science Diet and she is much
better.

...I bought 2 of my hedgehogs from a very nice small breeder, the other
two from a not-so-nice small breeder. My 5th hedgie came from my first
pair and she never lost her white baby stripe (was bottlefed....a Nutro
problem,...had to bottlefeed two litters w/ that catfood). My 6th came
from a very small breeder who was very nice (snowflake) and the
environment was nice too. My 7th and 8th came from a lady who didn't want
them anymore (the were on Iams and she couldn't get them to produce. I
couldn't either on the PP but since I switched to the Science Diet I have
had no trouble). Did you use the Science diet LITE? It is the fat levels
from the Nutro that caused my problems there. Science diet regular will
do the same. The PP and Science Diet Lite are identical in fat and
protein levels (most important for hedgies). The problem is that we
really don't know how much inbreeding was done by the breeders of the
imported hedgies. The weekenesses in some maybe nonexistant in others.
One food may just not do it. I used the breeder PP. I believe the dye was
the cause of the problem. In birds it has been seen to cause kidney
problems and damage and urine crystalization. It makes me just too
nervous. Once they remove the dyes I may try it again. What do hedgies
care about red food and a fruity smell!!!!! It is unnecessary.

Sonic muthafuckin Fury

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Aug 18, 1995, 3:00:00 AM8/18/95
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VES...@prodigy.com (Peyton Creadick) wrote:

>1. Hedgehogs when given a choice will choose science diet over the
>hedgehog food.

Yeah, and if you give a dog it's choice of a hamburger or it's dog food, it will
more than likely opt for the hamburger, that doesn't mean it's good for it.

>2.The stool is very loose on the PP food as it is for birds on the PP
>bird pellets. This makes cleaning a mess and the cages less sanitary.
>Loose stool is caused by the dye and can be very hard on the kidneys. I
>lost a male to kidney problems from the dye. The methods of the initial
>breeders of imported hedgehogs are not really know and it is thought that
>inbreeding caused some of the weaknesses of the hedgehogs we have now...i.
>e. cancer tendencies and fatty liver disease.

Yes, I would tend to agree the stool does become loose on male hedgehogs, but we


have never noticed this problem in any of our female hedgehogs. We have also
had this had problem with other types of cat food, but only on our male
hedgehogs.

>3.I and several friends noticed a satrong reduction in the number of

>offspring the hedgehogs produced. Mine were on it for 6 months and they
>were the worst 6 months I have had. I had babies die and females have
>less offspring. (I had had a 100 percent ratio prior)....I had a male die.
>.I and most people from what I have heard had messy disgusting stool all
> over the cages (it was supposed to stop after a week...it did on some..
>on others..most of my hedgies...it didn't stop..it just cut down). I had
>grumpy hedgehogs. My hedgeogs are normally very friendly.

We have had two litters of babies die, and both were on IAMS at the time.
Almost all the breeders in the area have switched to PP because of an increased
production in litters. Litters on IAMS, Science Diet and other cat or ferret


foods have been between 2 and 3, whereas the litters on PP have consistently

been between 3 and 6. More than likely, the breeding conditions just were not
100 satisfactory. Keep in mind PP has two hedgehog diets, one for the general
population, and the other for female breeder hhogs. The majority of hostility
has come from puppy-mill bred hedgehogs (aka SuperPets and other big chains).
All the exotic pet vets we have dealt with have also recommended the PP diet
over any other. I have never heard of a hedgehog changing temperment because of
the food it was fed. If your hedgehog stops eating, then yes, it's mood will
change. If you stop playing with it and showing it the human affection it
deserves, then yes, it's temper will change. The same goes with cats, guinea
pigs, and any other animal. We have never seen any temperment problems


(changes, yes, but problems, no) with our hedgehogs, nor have the breeders that

we've dealt with. I can not say the same for the hedgehogs at SuperPets who
were bred, stuck in an aquarium, and are only handle when someone wants to see
one, and then are handled by numerous different people, no one or two distinct
persons they can bond with, especially after being weened from their mother, a
very critical point at which the hedgehog bonds with the breeder.

>-
> PEYTON CREADICK VES...@prodigy.com
> Yes, Peyton is a female name :)

Well for one thing, the "dye" that you claim is in the PP hedgehog food is
nothing more than everyday, over the counter, non digestible food coloring. It
is designed to go through the animal (as well as people), and not into it. If
you have any questions regarding the nutitritional content or any questions in
general regarding PP, call them at 1-800-356-5020. No just because it says
hedgehog on the box doesn't mean it's the best available, but under todays
vetinarian standards, I have been told it is. We have had hedgehogs like yours
who have changed temperment (all have been female, we've never come across a
temperment or "personality" problem with our boars) but it had nothing to do
with the diet, as they were on a constant diet for 3 years, and showed the
change with in the first six months to a year. Hedgehogs, even though being
solitary animals, still need daily human attention, or they will loose whatever
bond you built (don't over do it, or they will get just pissed because you won't
leave them alone as they will because you won't pay attention to them).

Marty Keller

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Aug 22, 1995, 3:00:00 AM8/22/95
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VES...@prodigy.com (Peyton Creadick) wrote:

> I believe the dye was
>the cause of the problem. In birds it has been seen to cause kidney
>problems and damage and urine crystalization. It makes me just too
>nervous. Once they remove the dyes I may try it again. What do hedgies
>care about red food and a fruity smell!!!!! It is unnecessary.

>-
> PEYTON CREADICK VES...@prodigy.com
> Yes, Peyton is a female name :)

Uh, where do you get your facts from? PP has no dye in it. The red color comes
from nondigestible food coloring, which does not cause kidney problems and urine
crystalization. It is standard FDA approved grocercery store food coloring.
They have never added any dye to their hedgehog food.

Znofyl

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Aug 24, 1995, 3:00:00 AM8/24/95
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Until Pretty Pets gets its act together and makes decent reptile food
(what they produce now is a MISERABLE selection of stuff) I will not
subject my hedgies to anything they put out. I sometimes get the
impression that all of their foods are just Trix cereal put into different
bags.

Tony Berke

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Aug 25, 1995, 3:00:00 AM8/25/95
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Znofyl (zno...@aol.com) wrote:
: Until Pretty Pets gets its act together and makes decent reptile food


I use their tortoise diet several times a month, and it is an excellent
product, all my box turtles and tortoises love it and seem to thrive on
it. Of course, it is just used as a supplement.
Tony

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