Ball python with wobbly head

Clairebear

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Jan 3, 2002, 3:02:05 AM1/3/02

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Hi,

On New Years Eve we bought our first ball python (we've also got a milk,
corns and chequered garter snakes), he's approx 14" long, large head, shiny,
clean and chunky.
He's very slightly triangular in profile tho, which we believe means he's a
little underweight.

We let him settle in for a day - he spent the whole time curled into a tight
ball not moving at all. We were joking about his close resemblance to a
rubber dog poo

We then thought we'd try a defrosted fuzzy and offered it directly with
fingers into his viv not really believing he would be interested(so we didnt
upset him too much trying him with feeding tank) . He struck at it before
Paul had his hand fully in the tank, so fast Paul leapt 6" vertically
laughing. This earned Bernard the Ball rather more respect and a less
insulting name. This behaviour was so different to the indifference he
showed to a pinky in his feeder tank at the pet shop.
After eating he picked up and explored his tank. He's since eaten another 2
fuzzies again with the same vigour - in a feeder tank using long forceps!

We noticed that when he lifts his head and neck vertically it has a tendency
to wobble slightly, almost as if he were a bit drunk or weak.

Is this wobble likely to be a permanent 'feature',something that may be
because he's not been eating properly prior to coming here or some other
problem? We dont want to panic unnecessarily but would like to be forewarned
of any possibilities.

many thanks
Claire

Electricsuit

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Jan 3, 2002, 10:48:29 PM1/3/02

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My ball pythons wobble a little back and forth when they raise thier head.
I've had mine for a few years now and they all seem healthy. I don't think
it's anything to worry about. Good to see that you go him eating so
quickly!

Es

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Clairebear

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Jan 4, 2002, 4:49:39 AM1/4/02

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Thanks electricsuit.
They do have long slender necks dont they? Shaking was a little better
yesterday.
He's ravenous at the moment, we'll keep feeding him while he's like this
until we see the triangular shape disappear at least. We hope we dont have
the usual ball fussiness.
He's settled in very quickly, and we've been very surprised at this. So far,
since sunday/monday he's eaten approx 5 fuzzies, slithered all over us,
cuddled in, watched the nearby pet mice intently often, and had a bath in
his tank.
Since the first fuzzy he hasnt turned into a poo once!

"Electricsuit" <electr...@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
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Electricsuit

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Jan 4, 2002, 6:30:29 PM1/4/02

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It's great that's he's eating so much, but you really have to keep an eye on
that constipation. Keep the heat up in his enclosure and give him warm
baths (not hot). They need heat to digest thier food...don't use a heat
rock tho.

Es

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Ecky...@webtv.net

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Jan 4, 2002, 8:18:04 PM1/4/02

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Please be careful. Ball pythons ARE triangular in shape, that is how
they are at all times. They are shrub dwelling nocturnal snakes, much
like the green tree python which is also triangular. THIS IS NOT A SIGN
OF UNDERWEIGHT. This is simply their natural shape and serves to aid
them in locomotion on low branches.

A ball the size of yours should be eating no more than one fuzzie every
week. Any more and it will not only get to be overweight but over large
too early. Young captive bred ball pythons, like yours seems to be, are
very aggressive feeders indeed and will strike quickly at the right
food, warmed in the right way and wiggled. They will eat virtually
everything you give them, so you have to limit what the snake is
offered.

Regarding wobbly heads, this is one way in which pythons judge distance.
They move the head very slightly from side to side to observe the way
objects in the foreground move by contrast to those in the background.
This way they are better able to determine distance.

Best of luck,

Dominic

Dominic Eckersley
Mae afalau eraill ar y coed.
<http://community.webtv.net/eckythump/dominiceckersley>

Clairebear

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Jan 5, 2002, 3:24:11 AM1/5/02

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Lol if you saw my first message, I said he spent the first day coiled up
resembling a joke shop rubber dog poo. I didnt mean he's constipated.
Thanks tho electric :o)

> It's great that's he's eating so much, but you really have to keep an eye
on
> that constipation. Keep the heat up in his enclosure and give him warm
> baths (not hot). They need heat to digest thier food...don't use a heat
> rock tho.
>

Clairebear

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Jan 5, 2002, 4:04:24 AM1/5/02

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> Please be careful. Ball pythons ARE triangular in shape, that is how
> they are at all times. They are shrub dwelling nocturnal snakes, much
> like the green tree python which is also triangular. THIS IS NOT A SIGN
> OF UNDERWEIGHT. This is simply their natural shape and serves to aid
> them in locomotion on low branches.

Thanks for letting us know this Dominic, its our first one and we've heard
worrying stories about Royal pythons ignoring food for months. We believed,
after seeing him avoiding food in the store and seeing his shape, he wasnt
eating. We wanted to make sure, initially at least, that he had a few good
meals while he was obviously interested.
We wont worry now you've told us that he should be a triangular.
Should the run along his belly be slightly concave too?
He does look fine tho, his girth is quite chunky and approx the size of a
full sized mouse. The shop were feeding him pinkies. We gave fuzzies, but
his size suggests (from looking at the size of our pueblan milk and what she
eats) he could eat small mice. Is there a rule concerning size of prey and
royal pythons?

> They move the head very slightly from side to side to observe the way
> objects in the foreground move by contrast to those in the background.

That's great, thanks

I dont know if you'll be able to help with another query please.
When we handle our milk snake, she's approx 3-4 ft long, she is cool to the
touch. She chooses to spend her time at the colder end of the 3ft viv under
the water bowl.
On the other hand, Bernie the Ball feels warm to the touch. He's only got a
1' 6" perfecto viv at the moment (we plan to change his tank as he gets
bigger so he doesnt get agraphobic) He spends his days in a 6" diam coconut
shell just off the heat mat/basking zone.
Is this OK for the Ball or should we move his shell, we've had Rosie for a
while so think she must be ok as she is.

Ecky...@webtv.net

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Jan 5, 2002, 4:28:29 PM1/5/02

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Ball pythons can seem to be concave on their undersides when you hold
them. They have very motive bodies, unusually so for boids, which is how
they manage to roll into balls. Tame balls raised in captivity and
handled often will rarely exhibit this behaviour, though.

Regarding heat the the ball python, I use two hides, one of fake rock
and the other a hollowed out thick half tree branch. The hides are at
opposite ends of my viv and I allow a heat variant from about 80F-85F at
one end to 70F-75F at the other by way of a heat lamp at one end.
Sometimes the python will use the cooler hide, but not often.

As for the milk snake, Lampropeltis triangulum campbelli, you should
consider a heat variant across the viv with 80F at the hottest end and
70F at the cool end during the daylight hours, a little less at night.

I agree with the food options you suggest, perhaps one young mouse every
10 days for the next few months, and then move up to one every 7 days,
slowly increasing the mouse size thereafter is what I would do. By six
months old you might consider a fully grown mouse every 7 days, I would
think. All of this is, of course, dependant on viv heat, activity etc
and is to be treated informally. I use mice I catch in my kitchen with a
spring trap. I freeze the mice to kill off parasites, both internal and
external, and then defrost, gently heat up and offer to the ball. The
size of my kitchen harvests tend to vary and I normally have about 5 -
10 in my freezer at any time. If I only have small ones I will use two,
for example.

Hope that helps.

Best,

Clairebear

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Jan 5, 2002, 5:53:27 PM1/5/02

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Many thanks Dominic

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Snakela...@webtv.net

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Jan 6, 2002, 4:19:09 AM1/6/02

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He's hungry because he probably hadn't been fed much prior to you
receiving him/her. I wouldn't worry about constipation as he needs to
build up some fecal material before he can pass any. True contipation in
snakes is rare. snake lady

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Jan 6, 2002, 1:56:47 PM1/6/02

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Thought Id just stress the point :(
Outlook went funny - sorry for 3 posts

itdontmatter

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Jan 7, 2002, 1:40:40 PM1/7/02

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"Clairebear" <nospam_...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message

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I know what you mean about Outlook, mine went down and wouldn't even let me
read any of the ngs I am subscribed to. I finally had to delete everything
and start from scratch again. Now I'm going back through all my ngs and
re-reading all the posts. Very time consuming.
--
I used to be schizophrenic but we're alright now :)

Ecky...@webtv.net

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Jan 7, 2002, 4:39:17 PM1/7/02

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Clairebear,

Thanks for the great link, but although the signature is Welsh (well
spotted, by the way) and means "there are more apples on the tree" I am
in New York City, have been for eight years now.

Hope Outlook shapes up for you.

Best

Dominic